Having recently purchased Jackill's Reference Manual Vol. II and Starship Design on eBay (they *should* be on their way to me), I was wondering if there was any structure or method in the madness that is fandom.
First of all, Jackill's manuals seem to be quite rare, because neither Amazon, New Eye or Intergalactic sell them, and the only one on eBay ATM is already at 20+ euros. Should I really be prepared to pay big bucks for the other two volumes? And what about Jackill's datasheets you can buy directly from his site? Are those anything more than 5-views?
The same goes for Guenthers Ships of the Star Fleet series. Amazon lists it but has no used versions of it ATM and New Eye is sold out. I've never seen them on eBay either. So, apparently, quite rare. IIRC, this book introduces many of the Movie-era designs like the Belknap.
And now for an list of books I don't have (yet). I'm looking for descriptions/reviews for these books.
USS Enterprise Officer's Manual (+ Revised) I only know that the original is a spiral-back fan publication. The revised edition apparently was updated to comply with Shane's Guide to the Enterprise.
Starfleet Line Officer Requirements This book is by David Schmidt (fka Treknophile). That's all I know.
Starfleet Dynamics See above. Is it true this book is basically the same as above, but rewritten?
The Federation Reference Series 1-6 Some not very impressive looking datasheets I saw on New Eye's site. Worth anything?
Starfleet Uniform Recognition Manual Almost won this on eBay. Is this worth getting for anything more than 2 dollars?
And then onto the RPGs (SFB, FASA, and uhm.. LUG or something?). I'm not really interested in the game of course, only in the starship designs. Especially the whole Larson/Loknar and Orion Wanderer/Lotus stuff. But I have no idea how these were published, and how rare they are today.
Any big names I've forgotten? I have already got the Spaceflight Chronology, FJ's Manual and Blueprints, the TMP Blueprints, Mandell's Maps (new and old), Shane Johnson's Worlds o/t Federation and Scotty's Guide. And the usual Pocket Books 'official' stuff. Obviously.
[ August 18, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Harry ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on August 18, 2004 04:23 AM:
Jackill's Data sheets are alright. I only have one: The Danube Class. IIRC, there wasn't *alot* more than the 5-views. 5 views of the whole ship. 5 views of the ship without the central swappable modules. Silhouettes of the ship side and fore with and without the roll bar pod. Kind of alot fo filler stuff. There was some data info on the ship and the pods too, I remember. I can't speak for the rest of the sheets, cause I never opened them. But they were all black ink on colored paper. This was close to the beginning of DS9, and info on the Danube was still rare, so at the time, the $7 seemed worth it.
Posted by Kobi (Member # 1360) on August 18, 2004 05:05 AM:
The "Uniform Recognition Guide" by Shane Johnson is not worth very much. I still regret I paid ten Euro for the book. The illustrations in FJ's TM are better, the TWOK era uniforms are also in Shane's Guide to Enterprise and the Klingon uniform was receicled in the Fact Files.
SotSF I and II is very fine I think, I like the presentation and the usage of dropped designs for canon vessels. A bit on the low side is the fact that Star Fleet has too many Heavy Cruisers if one accept the ship list.
As for some FASA and LUG source books, I have recently bought for few money "The Federation" and "Planets of the UFP" -- very interesting references if one likes Star Trek cartography. Only "Way of D'era" is missing to become happy, but I don't intend to pay more than 20 Euro for the book, because I don't know if it is worth the money.
Ah: one last: "USS Khai Tam Technical Manual" completely low standard, fortunately I got it for just one euro...
Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on August 18, 2004 09:44 PM:
Anyone know where any of these reference books can be purchased and shipped internationally? I have never seen any of these on eBay.co.uk.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on August 18, 2004 09:54 PM:
All I can advise is to select the option to display worldwide items when searching on ebay.co.uk. But its hard enough finding US sellers that will ship to Canada, let alone overseas. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on August 18, 2004 11:11 PM:
Yeah. The obnoxious twats. With Paypal, it's just as easy to do, and it's not like it costs them anything more.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on August 19, 2004 03:02 AM:
No one will ship to the pit of scum and villiany that is....Canada.
No one.
I'm amazed that you cant find all that stuff online by now: I've seen almost all the Trek Magazine illustrations online nad most of the FJ stuff as well. I suppose you could get them, scan everything and put it online so the rest of the world would benifit...
As horribly illeagal as that would be.
Posted by Ultra TRSDOS (Member # 239) on August 19, 2004 07:33 AM:
Scanning someone's ill-begotten gains at the expense of a legally owned intellectual property is OK.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on August 19, 2004 07:55 AM:
Nothing is illegal as long as it serves my needs or wants.
Nothing.
Posted by ulTRS magDOS (Member # 239) on August 19, 2004 08:13 AM:
I AM TALKING ABOUT THE NERDS WITH THEIR NERD DRAWING BOOKS
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on August 19, 2004 08:13 PM:
quote: The same goes for Guenthers Ships of the Star Fleet series. Amazon lists it but has no used versions of it ATM and New Eye is sold out. I've never seen them on eBay either. So, apparently, quite rare. IIRC, this book introduces many of the Movie-era designs like the Belknap.
The first volume is rare. I got it second hand. the second volume is on Amazon.co.uk but it's �4.98 for delivery to western Europe. The second volume is actually rather better IMO. Partly due to the better quality of the presentation (colour coded deck/systems plans).
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on August 20, 2004 09:39 PM:
That is the Last Unicorn Games sourcebook, similar to FASA's "The Federation", contains a guide to 23 different Federation worlds, quite entertaining.
But the price is too high, eBay.de has it for 1,00 start price, usually ends around 4 euro (though the seller doesn't sell to Netherlands as it seems)
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on August 21, 2004 01:27 AM:
quote:The "Uniform Recognition Guide" by Shane Johnson is not worth very much.
Yet it sounds interesting. Could you perhaps post a table of content please?
Posted by Kobi (Member # 1360) on August 21, 2004 02:01 AM:
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:The "Uniform Recognition Guide" by Shane Johnson is not worth very much.
Yet it sounds interesting. Could you perhaps post a table of content please?
I will not encourage you to buy this thing, you will be disappointet! I warn you, the table of contents sounds more interesting than it really is!
for each uniform there is a double page, one shows the front view, the other side and back view. For the TOS uniforms there is a made up "female dress uniform", the TWOK uniforms (the TMP ones are ignored) shows a never seen "diplomatic dress uniform".
Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on August 23, 2004 12:37 AM:
quote:Originally posted by Wraith:
quote: The same goes for Guenthers Ships of the Star Fleet series. Amazon lists it but has no used versions of it ATM and New Eye is sold out. I've never seen them on eBay either. So, apparently, quite rare. IIRC, this book introduces many of the Movie-era designs like the Belknap.
The first volume is rare. I got it second hand. the second volume is on Amazon.co.uk but it's �4.98 for delivery to western Europe. The second volume is actually rather better IMO. Partly due to the better quality of the presentation (colour coded deck/systems plans).
I took a risk and have just bought this from your link. Could you please give a reasonably detailed clue as to the contents?
Posted by Kobi (Member # 1360) on August 23, 2004 12:49 AM:
quote:Originally posted by aneurysm:
quote:Originally posted by Wraith:
quote: The same goes for Guenthers Ships of the Star Fleet series. Amazon lists it but has no used versions of it ATM and New Eye is sold out. I've never seen them on eBay either. So, apparently, quite rare. IIRC, this book introduces many of the Movie-era designs like the Belknap.
The first volume is rare. I got it second hand. the second volume is on Amazon.co.uk but it's �4.98 for delivery to western Europe. The second volume is actually rather better IMO. Partly due to the better quality of the presentation (colour coded deck/systems plans).
I took a risk and have just bought this from your link. Could you please give a reasonably detailed clue as to the contents?
The second volume is about the Perimeter Action Ships (three types). You can understand them as some sort of fast attack crafts. Small, fast... they don't operate under the normal Starfleet umbrella, but a special division and are usually employed near the far borders.
Interesting reading!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on August 23, 2004 01:26 AM:
I also bought it. If Starship Design (also by Guenther, but actually a very thin magazine-style publication) is any measure, than it should be OK. And the Akyazi/Akula/A* classes are surprisingly good looking.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on August 23, 2004 01:42 AM:
Sort of follows the NX/Akira design lineage, but we won't go into that.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on August 23, 2004 01:44 AM:
quote:I took a risk and have just bought this from your link. Could you please give a reasonably detailed clue as to the contents?
Sure; three views of the Akyazi/Arbiter/Akula class perimeter action vessels, including additional views of varients within each class. There are MSD-style cutaways of each class, as well as deck plans for the Akula class. A history of the design, development and service to 2290 of each class is also in there.
Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on August 23, 2004 02:02 AM:
Wow! Such fast and detailed responses! Thanks! Looking forward to receiving my copy now. I was kind of worried that it would be something like the Decipher RPG Starships book - A big steaming pile of wank with the worst images ever seen in a Star Trek book.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on September 02, 2004 07:51 PM:
Heh. I also just managed to buy SotSF 1 from eBay, for $20. And I've bought Dynamics and the Heavy Cruiser Evolution Chart from Intergalactic.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on September 14, 2004 01:11 AM:
I just recieved four new fandom books in the mail (there goes the day!). SotSF1, SF Dynamics, the Evo Chart and a 25th Anniversary magazine as an extra.
Anyway, I have one big question about the Dynamics.. Although the disclaimer says any copyright infringements are unintentional, some of the ship designs are very similar to Guenther's ships. The Conquest and Dahlgren are only slightly different from the Ascension and Belknap, but the Constant is exactly the same as the Menagha!
Why didn't they both use the same names? I really can't believe they came up with the same designs independently, so either someone was copying the other, or the cooperated in some strange way... what gives?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on September 14, 2004 01:19 AM:
I doubt anyone could even copyright designs based on Star Trek ships. It's all Paramount's copyright. He's probably referring to infringements on Paramount's copyright. Which is a lie. All infringements are incredibly intentional. It's just that nobody cares.
Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on September 14, 2004 01:23 AM:
I received my SotSF volume 2 yesterday and its a good, interesting read.
Was volume 2 the last or was there more books afterwards?
Also what does volume 1 consist of?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on September 14, 2004 01:53 AM:
Volume 2 was the last, I think. Volume one is cruisers and frigates. Which basically means the variations on the Constitution design (Constitution, Bonhomme Richard, Achenar, Constitution (II), Enterprise, Tikopai, Enterprise (II), a couple of others I can't remember) and varients on the Miranda (Avenger, Endurance, Coventry, etc.) as well as the Belknap strike cruisers.
Posted by Kobi (Member # 1360) on September 14, 2004 02:09 AM:
I forgot by whom and when, but I was told that volume three was going to be about destroyer and scouts. That volume was never published though
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on September 14, 2004 02:20 AM:
A Volume Three is mentioned in the Preface of Volume Two. Although it's mentioned in an 'in-universe' way, as if it was a Starfleet publication. So it might not even have been anything seriously planned.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on September 14, 2004 03:37 AM:
Actually Jackill's SOTF Volume 3 has been out for several years. I bought it here in Columbus seven years ago and it's very entertaining. I haven't got Vol. 1 or 2 but I imagine they are somewhat similar in design.
Ships of the Line != Ships of the Star Fleet.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on September 14, 2004 06:03 AM:
Who said anything about the calendars? I thought we were talking about Jackill's books???
And there are no "volumes" of the SOTL calendars anyway, or are there?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on September 14, 2004 10:31 AM:
Harry is discussing Guenther's SotSF, not Jackill's.
And about the earlier question, Dynamics and Prototype both originally had the Belknap family and the Menahga in them. But Guenther got a little pissy with Schmidt about doing so. So, Schmidt revised the books with the Dahlgren and the Constant.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)