That bit about the Borg transmission that will take 200 years to reach the Delta Quadrant is...cool.
Of course, doesn't that make the whole Borg threat one big causality loop? (Borg attack Earth --> Enterprise-E follows them back in time to stop them from screwing w/the past --> Drones are left behind in the Arctic --> Drones awaken and try to assimilate stuff --> Drones send a transmission containing frequencies of pulsars near Earth --> Transmission reaches Borg 200 years later and motivates Borg to attack Earth...)
Anyway, for some reason I feel better about this whole Borg bit now.
-MMoM Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
I don't.
1) A transmission that doesn't degrade along tens of thousands of lightyears?
2) A transmission that takes two centuries to reach Borg HQ? That's, like, snail's pace as far as subspace speeds go.
4) Last but certainly not least, the cube in system J-25 wasn't specifically headed for Earth until Q dangled a suckulent carrot in front of it. Then there's the neutral zone incident hinting at early Borg presence... but if attacking Earth was their alleged motivation, why didn't they?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartmaniac: 3) 2153 + 200 = 2353 = twelve years early. Inaccuracy != T'Pol.
I think "200" is a round figure.
quote:4) Last but certainly not least, the cube in system J-25 wasn't specifically headed for Earth until Q dangled a suckulent carrot in front of it. Then there's the neutral zone incident hinting at early Borg presence... but if attacking Earth was their alleged motivation, why didn't they?
I thought Q knew the Borg were coming and he did Picard & co a favor by revealing it to them in advance.
-MMoM Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Fortunately Phlox's physiology is somehow resist to the Borg nanoprobes and he begins developing a treatment to expell them from his body.
This is known by the phrase "they've written themselves into a corner." Or are we supposed to think that the Denobulans have something in common with Species 8472?
Granted, the hints we've heard from early on suggested that Denobulans were absent from the 24th century because they became reclusive or disappeared for some reason, and that could explain why the Borg never heard of them. But the Borg would never have heard of most of the species they encounter and can assimilate them without any problems -- again, Species 8472 being the only exception.
I suppose that we shouldn't be surprised that Braga is contradicting his own canon now. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Death to Berman!!! , Death to Braga!!!
ONE BORG EPISODE IS ALREADY ASKING A LOT, DON'CHA THINK!?!?! CONTINUITY IS ALREADY ON SHAKEY GROUND, DON'CHA THINK!?!?!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It is a lovely day outside, in many parts of the Republic.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: This is known by the phrase "they've written themselves into a corner." Or are we supposed to think that the Denobulans have something in common with Species 8472?
Granted, the hints we've heard from early on suggested that Denobulans were absent from the 24th century because they became reclusive or disappeared for some reason, and that could explain why the Borg never heard of them. But the Borg would never have heard of most of the species they encounter and can assimilate them without any problems -- again, Species 8472 being the only exception.
I suppose that we shouldn't be surprised that Braga is contradicting his own canon now.
You seem to be overlooking the fact that if the Borg in this episode are blown up, (as the article states they will be) then the Collective will never know about Denobulans until they come to the the Alpha/Beta Quadrant in the 24th century. (And at that time, it seems there aren't any Denobulans around. )
-MMoM Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:You seem to be overlooking the fact that if the Borg in this episode are blown up, (as the article states they will be) then the Collective will never know about Denobulans until they come to the the Alpha/Beta Quadrant in the 24th century. (And at that time, it seems there aren't any Denobulans around.
Yes, but what I'm saying is that it shouldn't matter. The 24th-century nanoprobes -- at least those from "First Contact" (and later, but that's not relevant here) are for the "one-size-fits-all" kind of assimilation. It was considered shocking in the extreme that there was a species that the Borg couldn't assimilate in "Scorpion."
Okay, so Phlox has a really long tongue, freaky toenails, and very flexible facial muscles. I fail to see any indication that his body chemistry is that radically different from your average humanoid's -- and actually a few suggestions that his physiology is otherwise similar in many ways, like his need for the space suit in "The Crossing." Even Spock would've lasted in a CO2-rich atmosphere for a little while.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Granted, the hints we've heard from early on suggested that Denobulans were absent from the 24th century because they became reclusive or disappeared for some reason
They'll become the Cardassians. You'll see. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Naw, they will all dieout from mass V.D.'s from having multiple sex partners...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, um... How does T'Pol know where the Borg homeworld is? I mean, one has to know how far away something is before one can predict the amount of time something will take to get there...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Interesting point. And, assuming that this entire series isn't erased in a temporal incursion in the series finale, it's a wonder that no one on the Enterprise-D had ever heard of bionic zombies that were found on Earth in the 2150's and attacked Earth's first explorer starship...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Probably for the same reason none of the androids encountered in TOS were never once mentioned in TNG and beyond, and Data was always this unique mindblowing concept of advanced technology....
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, in all fairness, Data was built by humans. The androids from, say, "I, Mudd" were built by super-advanced aliens from another galaxy, IIRC. So Data would be considered much more of an accomplishment.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Plus, they were hardly of the same order of complexity. Data was to all intents and purposes human, while the Mudd androids were confused to destruction by input that my digital watch could have figured out.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Yeah, but there were more realistic androids. Do Korby, Flint's girlfriend, etc, but that's going off the point a bit.
Hasn't the initial meeting of the Borg been rewritten several times now? Hell, it was rewritten in BOBW, when everyone seemed to think that this was the first time a cube had got into Federation space, going against the events recounted in "The Neutral Zone". And then there's Voyager's crazy mucking about. I'm going to adopt a "wait and see", before either thinking "Hmm, that just about worked," or, "LOOK HOW CUTE LINK IS! HE'S ADORABLE! CUDDLE HIM!"
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Seems Mike Sussman (co-producer and co-writer of "Regeneration"), posted on TrekBBS a few words regarding the ep...
quote:POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Just a few thoughts:
Q did not throw the Enterprise-D into the Delta Quadrant in "Q Who?". System J-25 was "only" 7,000 or so light-years from Federation space, about two years travel time to the nearest Starbase at maximum warp (this is made clear in dialogue in the episode). The Delta Quadrant is several tens of thousands of light-years further away. There's a map in Geoff Mandel's excellent "Star Charts" that illustrates an approximate location of J-25 in relation to the various quadrants. I don't have my copy of the book in front of me, so I can't give you the exact page number. Geoff put J-25 in the Beta Quadrant, which seems to make sense.
Now, I consider myself something of a "continuity hound." While I admit the show isn't always airtight in this regard, we do try our best, and with "Regeneration," I paid very close attention to these issues. As a fan, nothing takes me out of an episode faster than an obvious contradiction with what's been established previously.
That said, there is a detail that seems to be often overlooked or forgotten: the Enterprise-D's encounter in J-25 was NOT the Federation's initial contact with the Borg. It's made quite clear in "Q, Who" that the Borg wiped out several Federation and Romulan outposts along the Neutral Zone in the TNG season one finale (appropriately titled "The Neutral Zone"). This fact seems to have been generally ignored in future episodes, but it is definitively established in "Q Who?"
I've wondered what the Borg were doing so far from home in "The Neutral Zone" and "Q Who?" (in "Dark Frontier", we learn that the Borg were flitting around Federation space years earlier than we thought). What made them interested in our part of the galaxy? Did the Collective have some kind of "inside information" about Earth or the Federation? Without giving too much away, I can safely say that "Regeneration" will present one POSSIBLE answer. At the very least, I hope it'll provide a little food for thought...
Straight from the horses mouth...I'm not sure I completely follow this, but this is his justification. How the hell did we get off thinking J-25 was in the Delta Quadrant anyway? Just out of curiosity. Because this episode aired a good year before the current "4-quadrant rule" went into effect...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Who's "we", white guy?
Seriously, J-25 being in Delta... (Alec Guinness voice) "Now that's a claim I haven't heard for a long time" (/Alec Guinness voice).
Anyway, looks like this will be a repeat of the Ferengi incident after all - the heroes *will* have direct and well documented contact, visual, physical, you name it. And then forget all about the incident anyway. If there is a "threat databank" of these encounters for future captains to study, the Ferengi probably wouldn't warrant a real entry. But potent fighters who actually were on *Earth* at one point?
I'm afraid the continuity gimmicks will have to be pretty clever this time for this to make sense.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
At least this time, it's reasonable for the crew to never hear the word "Borg," since real communication is unlikely.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Heh. That comment made me wonder why the Borg call themselves Borg... I mean, it's quite irrelevant, isn't it?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
As to regards to future crews not knowing:
Does it really make sense for Picard (or even Data) to be familiar with everyone that the Earth or UFP Starfleet might have met over the past 200 years? Considering how much happens to a single ship in the space of a year, and considering how many ships there are out there, that amount of information seems astronomical. I imagine that, with something like the Borg, the info will be passed around for a bit and then, over the next 200 years, gradually lost in amoungst all the other paperwork generated by founding the Federation, fighting wars with everyone, and so forth.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Can't they use Google? 8-B
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Heh. That comment made me wonder why the Borg call themselves Borg... I mean, it's quite irrelevant, isn't it?
In the worst of both worlds, maybe Archer will refer to them as "cyborgs," and then someone will shorten that to "Borg." And they'll all be winking at the camera while doing it. Meanwhile, the drones on Enterprise will think that's a catchy name, and attach a memo on that transmission they'll send, suggesting that the Collective use that name as the start of all their communications. Two hundred years later, some poor alien race out in the Delta Quadrant is the first to hear that fateful transmission, "We are the Borg."
This can get as absurd as we want. Or fear. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: As to regards to future crews not knowing:
Does it really make sense for Picard (or even Data) to be familiar with everyone that the Earth or UFP Starfleet might have met over the past 200 years? Considering how much happens to a single ship in the space of a year, and considering how many ships there are out there, that amount of information seems astronomical. I imagine that, with something like the Borg, the info will be passed around for a bit and then, over the next 200 years, gradually lost in amoungst all the other paperwork generated by founding the Federation, fighting wars with everyone, and so forth.
Sounds plausible enough. Especially if you remmember that Data had never even heard of the word "snoop" until Picard mentioned it to him.
However I find it very hard to belive that the Borg will be able to resist the urge to mention their name every five seconds, which is what they usually do.
In regards to how much the Federation knew about the Borg ahead of time; we know that the name "Borg" was in the Federation database at least as early as 2293(94?), since it was in Soran's file. Of course that file could have been updated after BoBW but I doubt it.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: Meanwhile, the drones on Enterprise will think that's a catchy name, and attach a memo on that transmission they'll send, suggesting that the Collective use that name as the start of all their communications. Two hundred years later, some poor alien race out in the Delta Quadrant is the first to hear that fateful transmission, "We are the Borg."
Corporate rebranding, cyborg style!! Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The trailer did not inspire me for some reason, despite not saying anything I didn't already know, though I have to admit the assimilated ship looks pretty cool. However, UPN's promotional department is not exactly the most talented in the industry, as I'm sure we're all aware, so I shouldn't assume much about the episode from the content of the trailer, I guess.
Still, a powerful 'meh' reaction to the trailer, whereas the earlier spoilers had me at least intrigued, if not crazy excited.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I don't think that all the pretty toys can help Enterprise last much longer.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Just thinking about system J25 sounds like a road-map coordinate. Maybe we could incorporate the 'other quadrants' into the 4-quadrant system.
Like along one axis is A-Z or ZZ or what ever and down is 1-100 or something?
Or maybe three axes... J-2-5
Maybe J is the z-axis as it's is 'thinner' and could nicely house 26 letters?
So maybe System J25 is in that quadrant?
What other 'quadrants' have we been given (apart from alpha, beta, gamma and delta?)
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well that came from out of left field...and in the meantime I must have missed the point...
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
From what I read, "Regeneration" could be a good end for the "Borg arc" startred in TNG. And the 200 years until the message reached the DQ makes sense. I think things were going like this: Borg are cruising around, assimilating and stuff (Neutral zone colonies and USS Tombaugh for example), but they don't think humans or the Federation are a threat. Starfleet knows the Borg from rumors and vague reports about cyborgs since 2152, gets concrete information from the El-Aurians around 2293, but they don't concider them a threat either (no contact until 2363, no reports of attacks that can be linked to the Borg, plus they think they're still in the Delta Quadrant). The Borg meet the E-D, Picard is concerned (J-25 being in the BQ after all - what Sussman said and I believe, too), the Borg are not. They have met mankind before. Some time after this incident the Borg get the message sent in "Regeneration" that says 'Assimilate all humans, they're dangerous, we know it, because we're from the future and traveled back in time', and the Borg start attacking earth, a.k.a. "The Best of Both Worlds". They have transwarp, Starfleet doesn't know this, so all their figures are inaccurate anyway ('we didn't expect them yet').
The Borg in the 2360's may find the message from the past quite interesting because it's actually from their future. One coud speculate that the message didn't say anything about the circumstances, so the Borg-queen thought travelling back in time sounds good but she should come with her drones to secure the mission's outcome. Causality loop completed.
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
You'd think they'd tack on some extra info to help their DQ buddies, like:
1) Assimilate all ships called "Enterprise" or "Voyager" as soon as you encounter them. 2) Attack with more than one cube. 6 would be good. 60 would be better. 3) 8472 is a bad number.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I see a couple of flaws in your reasoning, although I do want to try to resolve it...
For one thing, if the Borg were using transwarp in BOBW, then why were they toying around by staying just at the E-D's maximum speed? If they knew that the Humans were a threat thanks to their message from the past, there's no reason why they'd do something like that.
Furthermore, if the past-Borg message had anything other than the location of Earth, there's no logical way that the Collective in 2350's and 60's would take things so piecemeal. If I had the opportunity to warn the future, and could send a detailed message, I'd send enough info to mention my past previous attempts to assimilate Earth!
Presumably, the message contained nothing more than the location of Earth. But... at the same time, the past-drones should ALREADY know that they received that same message themselves a few years before (from their perspective). So either they were intentionally fulfilling the causality loop, with the hope of doing things different next time, or else were completely unaware. Which makes this whole proposition silly.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
Temporal paradoxes usually are.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Indeed. Which is why I'm really looking forward to taking a whole class on time travel at the university next winter. It's a class taught in the Philosophy department, and the professor is also the author of "The Metaphysics of Star Trek." (That book has a whole section on some of the intricacies of time travel.
Then there's the fact that he's been known to bring in relevant films from various series and movies. I'm going to get college credit for watching "Star Trek" and "South Park"! Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well, I pretty much figured that...the first Borg enounter at Wolf 359 was a result of the interest piqued by the Q encounter in "Q Who", which has presumably been an accepted, dare I say, "fact".
However, what triggered the second Borg invasion from "First Contact"? Something had to give the Borg a reason to wander so far out of their realm to go after Earth again almost 10 years after their first failed attempt....
[insert inticing reason here]
....so anyway, they make this second incursion into the Federation and it fails. They go back in time, and within the next 100 years, they send a message to themselves from Earth instructing, again, themselves to assimilate Earth.
In retrospect, I can see that this could explain the reason for the mysteriously inticing 'second invasion' of Earth ("First Contact"), however, the hole in the theory is how they would have gotten the message in the first place. If it was indeed the message (from "Regeneration") that message that brought them to the place and, later, time (in "First Contact) to which it was originally sent, something needs to be spliced into the equation to make it all add up.
I know this is far from clearing the causality of it up, but it does pose another POV to the scenario.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Class. On time travel.
Must have.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
You know, Regeneration explains something ELSE (at least potentially). 200 years puts it in the early 2350s? Right about the time of the Hanson Expedition...right? Now we know why Starfleet commissioned it to begin with!
Question: what is there to say that the El Aurians told Starfleet ANYTHING in the 2290s? They're notoriously closed mouthed about a lot of things, if Guinan is any example.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
on the matter of transwarp and BoBW, i think the Borg probably had transwarp already at that point. if you recall the transwarp architecture presented in 'Descent', you had to reach a certain fixed point in normal space to enter the TW conduit.. after that, the Borg might likely be confined to standard warps.. basically, there was no 'off-ramp' from the transwarp highway close to Earth.. they transwarped in somewhere at the Federation's perimeter, hit New Providence and the Lalo, then moved on towards sector 001.. it was just the closest they could get out of transwarp at that point.
this raises a lot of interesting questions about the physics of transwarp, of which the answers the Federation isnt privy to. Perhaps for every aperture that exits to normal space, it takes a certain amount of "tunneling" by the Borg at their transwarp hubs.. this would make transwarp far from an omnipotent form of travel, and much more dramatic, story-wise.. basically, even though the Borg could eventually build a hub that would allow them to exit apertures right at UFP space, the length of time we are talking about to "build" the conduit to their is their limiting factor(this explains "Endgame" where, at this point, the Borg had apparently succeeded in getting an aperture close to Earth, which they obviously didnt have in the BoBW/FC eras)
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
So who is to say the Borg message didn't deteriorate on its way to the Delta Quadrant? A Borg ship picks up a transmission of which the message has been degraded, but they know it's a Borg transmission because of the encoding (or some technobable). So the Borg are curious -- "we don't have ANY ships waaaay out there, where did this message come from?!?!"
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Well that came from out of left field...and in the meantime I must have missed the point...
Is there supposed to be a point!?! Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Well that came from out of left field...and in the meantime I must have missed the point...
Is there supposed to be a point!?!
Actually that is what I was wondering in the first place...as you certainly weren't making a very clear one...
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Hmm. . . This ep is three weeks after "Horizon" which was on Sky last night. . . which means in theory it'll be on in three weeks. When I'm on holiday. Bugger.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I agree, if the message arrived in the 2360's it could have been just the fact that it came from the Alpha Quadrant and was sent by a Borg that made things interesting for the collective. If it was the cause for the second invasion, the causality loop would be limited to First Contact/Regeneration.
Now, let's talk about the Borg-queen's line at the end of First Contact about Picard thinking too three-dimensional and her reappearance in Voyager. And while we're at it, how about everything after FC took place in an alternate timeline? :head explodes:
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Well that came from out of left field...and in the meantime I must have missed the point...
Is there supposed to be a point!?!
Actually that is what I was wondering in the first place...as you certainly weren't making a very clear one...
I was sorta replying to a post on page 2. I didn't quote it. But everyone was talking about system J25 - so I had an idea about quadrants and co-ordinates... not really THAT great-a-stretch.
Hmph. Stupid Channel NEIN! (Nine) aren't playing Enterprise tonight. PLUS I downloaded last weeks "The Communicator" and it was laden with problems - I had it save to CD and in parts it just stopped and I got a warning saying something like "cyclical error" what ever THAT is.
Anyone know.
Andrew
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
A cyclical redundancy check is a way of making sure data hasn't been corrupted. A CRC error probably means your CD was written incorrectly. I had that happen a lot when my CD burner was going bad.
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
That was the frelling worst episode of ANYTHING I've ever SEEN!!!!!!!
First I have gone on strike: I quite watching after last season. However I was intrigued how B+B could mess up the borg......
since when does the NX-01 have "photon" looking(and sounding) torpedoes and linear phaser arrays?
since when do the borg not assimilate defenceless humans lying on the ground......
the guns only have two settings and maclom says use "high-est" setting
Why didn't the E-E sensors pick up MASSIVE SPHERE CHUNKS, I mean what the heck that hull piece was at least 100ft tall!!
At least for me I'm settleing on the FACT that the entire concept of a "NX-01 UNIVERSE" is a alternate reality. NOT the NORMAL QUANTUM REALITYwe tend to think of when regarding TREK.
"I am wondering why the borg would go to their homeworld if it is so far away and they already informed themselves and there is a planet of defenseless humans sitting right there in their grasp and the reinforcements would have no hope of getting there in time......why abandon the mission in the middle of a perfect opportunity just to go on a futile sight seeing trip?" Quoted from KARNAGE with permission.
[ May 07, 2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Warbadden Hawkins ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That's nice.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I'll tell pa to dust off the straight-jacket....
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Double post...damn...
Umm...take yer complainin' back to Trekweb!! Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
Tell me the truth Futureama Guy or whatever you are, did you actually like that episode....and if you did I think that you have a lower IQ every second an you can somehow get sucked into your bathtub drain if you wanted too.
But if you hated it or merely disliked it then your a normal trekkie, if that applies in a "normal" way.
"That was the frelling worst episode of ANYTHING I've ever SEEN!!!!!!!"
I completely agree.
I was watching this episode of Full House where Uncle Danny was doing something and Mr. Romijn disagreed and played rock music, while the InternetPhenomenaTwins looked on. And Mrs. Saint Louis Blues forward made an appearance.
Even that was better than this episode, surely.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Warbadden Hawkins: Tell me the truth Futureama Guy or whatever you are, did you actually like that episode....and if you did I think that you have a lower IQ every second an you can somehow get sucked into your bathtub drain if you wanted too.
But if you hated it or merely disliked it then your a normal trekkie, if that applies in a "normal" way.
I'm sorry, "Captain Dawkins", but my life doesn't revolve around Trek the way yours quite obviously does. I will agree there are consistancies that do not totally add up, but one thing I have learned with Trek...throughout...is that it never totally adds up for various reasons, including the fact that it is not real, "Captain".
I have come to find that this is to be expected with Enterprise and having come off of a DS9 high, disappointed with Voyager altogether, I find Enterprise, at least, to be fairly refreshing with the things that they have done that have been original or, like "Regeneration" were attempted to be original.
So to answer your question: No, I didn't think it was bad, there were certainly inconsistancies, and I certainly feel no dumber for watching it...but I can tell you one thing: My sense of reality remains the same, and I am certainly not losing any sleep over this...it's only TV..afterall.
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
wow I think im just going to state here and now that Futureama guy is right Im a dumb -moronic-trekker that lives trek with his life companion his comptuer.....Gotta problem with that?
Here is a qestion for you Futuama dudette, Suppose a ship , lets say, voyager is in the delta quadrant. and it would take this "voyager" 80 years to get [email protected]
a subspace message would travel at a warp much faster than a ship is capable of but it will still take 200 years to get ther ....@ 9.999 somthing or the other
Is it I who is confused or B+B?
I would even venture to beleive that the BORG "homeworld" would be closer than 75K LYs to the AQ.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
That was some scrambled.
But: "Futuama dudette"
Really? This is what you're going to do? This is the best thing you could come up with? Really?
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
Yes, like I said before I'm LAME.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I hate to break it to you, but we don't need you to tell us that for us to know that about you.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
I just saw the episode... those aluminum suits those Arctic scientists were using also was featured in Voyager's Timeless... which was modified from the DS9 episode where Quark and Odo crash land a runabout. Other than that, the episode was tolerable.
A theory on the slow assimilation process... The Borg have algorithms that initiate when they are cut off from The Collective, basically for survival and retrieval. What if it takes The Collective, or even a "mini collective" like in FC to fully initiate the nanoprobes. The Voyager episode "Unity" had the Cooperative link together to heal Chakotay's injuries. What if you need some kind of central order to make assimilation go faster?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ohhhh what if they decided to build a Borg Queen - I know I'm getting into spoiler territory - but anyway - from what it sounds like - I reckon it's a problem with being effectively severed from the link. Only can assimilate with speed with the help of all the other Borg - only can build a Borg-queen when you have the items and the connections.
Which makes me think of an explanation of why assimilating used to take longer - apart from the lack of nano-probes (they sort of appeared later on - do you think they did eventually try Wesley's idea and it instead enhanced the Borg?) maybe if out of contact with the main part of the collective - i.e. there's only a small number cut off - then they can't assimilate as effectively?
Maybe they could during FC - because they brought along their own Borg Queen Chamber or something? Where-as in things like "Drone" - apart from being severed and regaining their former selves - scouts don't have enough to start assimilating correctly. Maybe it was a scout which was poking around the Neutral Zone in 2364 and it was destroyed or fled when a D'Deridex and a Galaxy was closing in on it. Because even if they did get aboard either ship - being a scout crew a long way from major connections with the hive - then they had limited 'ability' i.e. 'connections' or equipment to assimilate anything.
Oh BTW - thanks TSN about the cyclical redundancy thing. I used the computer at uni and just copied and burnt the file using the Windows xp function - Nero would be better to use in cases like 400Mb movie files - wouldn't it?
Although I downloaded "Dead Stop" the same way - and it was fine.
Thanks.
Andrew
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
quote:Originally posted by Warbadden Hawkins: a subspace message would travel at a warp much faster than a ship is capable of but it will still take 200 years to get ther ....@ 9.999 somthing or the other
They are using a 2150s transmitter (albeit modified). Who says subspace communications travel at 9.999... in 2153 (especially without a relay)?
Not that I expect you to answer with anything but a whiny insult. Maybe you'd be a happier person if you used your whiny POS Jedi powers to make everyone agree with you.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
quote: At least for me I'm settleing on the FACT that the entire concept of a "NX-01 UNIVERSE" is a alternate reality. NOT the NORMAL QUANTUM REALITYwe tend to think of when regarding TREK.
That's about the only thing left now. I've seen some arguments about how easy it is to lose data over 200 years, but I can't believe that this could be lost information, Picard would have to know about the Borg before their fist encounter.
quote: since when does the NX-01 have "photon" looking(and sounding) torpedoes and linear phaser arrays?
I think it was just the f/x of the torpedoes. They hooked up what I believe they are calling "Phase Cannons" earlier in the season.
I liked the episode, but it leaves far to much information about the Borg around for it to go away. With the events of "First Contact", and "Regeneration" giving Phlox a close look at Borg Nano Probes, Plus they still could have pieces of a Borgified ship to study.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Warbadden Hawkins: the guns only have two settings and maclom says use "high-est" setting
Why didn't the E-E sensors pick up MASSIVE SPHERE CHUNKS, I mean what the heck that hull piece was at least 100ft tall!!
Actually the quote was more like "set them to maximum". 'Stun' wasn't working..so 'kill' was obviously the "maximum" setting he was referring to...
...Considering it is the Arctic...and not to mention the fact the E-E sensors were down, the sphere hull could have easily been buried under snow and became exposed following shifts in the ice or from global warming..who knows...either way, Voyager was under quite a bit of ice after 15 year following its crash landing in "Timeless".
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Well, in addition to those ship bits, there are now two more Borg floating around somewere in interstellar space along with the handful in orbit around the Earth. Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Wouldn't those Borg been vaporized by Worf long before they got into Earths orbit...and any of the remains would have been futher burned up by the atmosphere....??
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Considering that there are currently thousands on Near Earth Objects zipping around the earth at thousands of miles per hour and by Cochrane's time it's likely that there would be millions more, No, I don't think a Drone in orbit would have survived intact (or even in large-ish chunks) in an erratic orbit (at best) for more than a few days tops.
Remember all the Earch junk floating around undiscovered even into TNG's era and you'll see why nobody finding a couple of depressurized drones from this episode makes sense.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
But there was no "depressurized drones from this episode" in orbit of or from Earth, they were quite a ways from Earth when the were blown out of the Enterprise.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
But then, no one had found that space probe that the KBOP blows away in STV or that vessel containing those cryogenically preserved people from The Neutral Zone. Or Kahn's "sleeper ship" from Space Seed. ...or even several lost starships that had vanished for hundreds of years (several episodes in this area)....and that's just the human debris! Don't forget the K'Tinga choc full of sleeping Klingons that nobody had noticed for almost a whole century.
Imagine all the bits of destroyed ships from the Federation and Klingon's various wars with other cultures and each other.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I thought this was about stuff floating around Earth, as in its orbit...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I was responding to this post:
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Well, in addition to those ship bits, there are now two more Borg floating around somewere in interstellar space along with the handful in orbit around the Earth.
Although I'm sure that anything in Earth Orbit would be disintegrated in the atmosphere soon after being cut free by Worf (or whoever). It takes serious planning and adjustments to maintain a stable orbit and those Drones that were lost were hardly in a position to make any adjustments. Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
The FC drones were at least 40.000 kilometers up... it would take centuries for their orbit to decay, assuming Worf didn't tractor them back in for the annual 2373 freakshow...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
They probably were just plain vaporized in the weapons explosion...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Why would the FC drones be so high up? Earth didn't look all that small in the background when the heroes jettisoned the deflector. And the E-E certainly wasn't on a geostationary orbit, as there were even *verbal references* to it moving in relation to Earth.
(And "forward", bow first, for that matter, if the establishing shots are any indication. So even disregarding the size of Earth on the background, the orbit would be lower than stationary, not higher - I can't believe the ship would be orbiting stern first even if its relative motion resulted in the bow moving "forward" wrt the ground.)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
The Vulcans should hacve detected the two drones that worf fought. One of those was "Hawk", Correct?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartmaniac: The FC drones were at least 40.000 kilometers up... it would take centuries for their orbit to decay, assuming Worf didn't tractor them back in for the annual 2373 freakshow...
They went flying off in uncontrolled trajectories. Their orbit would have decayed far faster than a anything placed there on purpose. Even if they were 40,000 klicks up they would have entered a slow decaying orbit almost immeadately. Besides, just because the Enterprise blew it regarding the Sphere's wreckage does'nt mean that they could'nt have cleaned up their local area of debris and a few stray drones (and given Hawk a funeral). There's a lot that had to happen between the Queen's death and the Enterprise's departure: somehow getting back all those lifeboats for starters. Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Yeah, and most likely assisting the Phoenix and its crew back to Earth.
Posted by Sorak (Member # 874) on :
Playing the Devil's Advocate for a moment...
quote: System J-25 was "only" 7,000 or so light-years from Federation space, about two years travel time to the nearest Starbase at maximum warp...
If Voyager was 70,000 light-years away from Earth, and it would take them 70 years to reach home at maximum warp, wouldn't it be only logical that 1 year = 1000 light-years? This would put the Ent-D's trip time at 7 years.
quote: ...the orbit would be lower than stationary, not higher...
As mentioned in the most recent Enterprise episode, very large objects tend to look closer than they actually are. Especially from space. And, even compared to the Soverign class starship, Earth is still pretty honkin' big. It would be almost impossible to ascertain a set altitude from just looking at the shots.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sorak: Playing the Devil's Advocate for a moment...
quote: System J-25 was "only" 7,000 or so light-years from Federation space, about two years travel time to the nearest Starbase at maximum warp...
If Voyager was 70,000 light-years away from Earth, and it would take them 70 years to reach home at maximum warp, wouldn't it be only logical that 1 year = 1000 light-years? This would put the Ent-D's trip time at 7 years.
Not sure what you are getting at here. Data specifically said it would take them the 2+ year time frame to get to the nearest Starbase. IIRC, they were 7000 light years from were they were, not from the Starbase...regardless the information about Voyager + lightyears never held water.
quote:Originally posted by Sorak:
quote: ...the orbit would be lower than stationary, not higher...
As mentioned in the most recent Enterprise episode, very large objects tend to look closer than they actually are. Especially from space. And, even compared to the Soverign class starship, Earth is still pretty honkin' big. It would be almost impossible to ascertain a set altitude from just looking at the shots.
I believe they were talking about something 2000 light years across...not something as minute as a planet...
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