"In the second half of the season, you can expect this: Stories that take place on Andoria, a Klingon moon, Romulan outposts, Romulan Marauders, Orion Privateers, Earth's Moon, Mars, a Constitution-class Federation starship and more."
Um, the last one..?
Mark
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
Perhaps it will have something to do with the upcoming Mirror-universe episode. Though it would thus still require time travel. Hmmmm.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Uh, maybe the Defiant? (the one lost in Tholian space, though they should have done that two years ago)
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
From Trekweb , heavy Spoilers for "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part 1 and 2":
The nineteenth episode of STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE's fourth season will continue the story begun with "In a Mirror, Darkly," and create another link between ENTERPRISE and the original STAR TREK series. In Part I (as previously reported), a Mirror Universe adventure unfolds when we glimpse the moment of first contact with Vulcans taking a vicious turn, entirely different from the history we've seen in the feature film FIRST CONTACT.
In part two of the story, we encounter a mirror version of our NX-01 crew. Archer doesn't have a command of his own in this universe, but together with his fellow cruel shipmates, he captures a vessel known as the "Defiant" -- the Federation starship lost in "The Tholian Web", quite possibly. In the famous TOS episode, the U.S.S. Defiant disappears into "interspace" after phasing between dimensions for a few hours. Coto mentioned earlier today (story) that a "1701-class Federation starship" would make an appearance this season, and this episode will likely involve replicas of classic TOS sets.
Mayweather and Archer torture an alien prisoner to gain information about the location of a stowaway -- a Gorn -- before later meeting up with another Empire starship, the Avenger. Commanded by an 'Admiral Black', the Avenger's science officer is a submissive 'Lieutenant Commander Soval'. After a firefight, Archer and the Defiant rendevezous with the Avenger, where Archer prods the admiral for a battlefield commission of his captured vessel. It seems the Enterprise in this universe was commanded by 'Captain Forrest', and their fate remains unknown at this time.
If this show doesn't get a fifth season, I'll be really pissed.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Groan and moan!
People were singing the praises of the writing staff for returning Enterprise to glory and visiting stories touched on by other series.
I enjoyed them too, but this last idea illustrates why a little can go too far.
I really dislike stories that try too hard to either tie up all the loose ends, or touch upon too many ideas that have come before.
A Mirror Universe story and also a story that features the lost TOS version of the Defiant? Groan and moan.
You know, this is why I hated Keven Anderson's Star Wars novels and stopped reading them.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I haven't watched any episodes of Enterprise this season (due to technical issues, not out of a lack of desire), and judging just from descriptions it does feel a little like the show has swung kind of far in the direction of references trumping plots.
But again, that's just a vague impression based on second- and third-hand information.
I hope that, if Enterprise does get cancelled after this season, they let the producers know early enough to allow for a neat ending arc.
I am all about episodes on the Moon and Mars, though. (And though I hesitate to admit to reading it, that Federation novel featured a research lab on Titan, and now we've got all sorts of images to photoshop into the background. . .)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
"Admiral Black?" Why not just have Archer's erstwhile commanding officer be Captain Scarlet while they're at it?
This sounds a little dubious to me. A two-parter? I realise that many of the DS9 Mirror Universe eps seemed a little rushed - "Ooops, we're in the Mirror Universe. Whoops, we've escaped. Phew!" - but I'm not sure the concept can sustain 90 minutes (or rather, about 84 these days) of interesting drama.
Plus, what else happens in the first part beyond what's already been revealed, in which the Montanans murder the Vulcans and nick their ship and technology (or something)? I wonder if they'll get the guy played that Vulcan back. . ? Or Cochrane?
Also, I wish they'd nail it down one way or the other, regarding the origin of the Mirror Universe. Is it down to one thing that happened differently - such as, say, the locals not being in the mood to receive alien visitors right now, thank you very much - or is it ultimately like the theory in that Diane Duane novel which suggested that human nature itself is findamentally corrupted in some way in that universe? Will the Borg attack have happened in this timeline? Did an evil Enterprise-E crew come back in time to stop the Borg? Would the Borg be nice in the Mirror Universe? WE ARE THE BORG. RESISTANCE IS FRIGHTFULLY RUDE, WOULDN'T YOU SAY?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hmmmm Mirror Universe Borg!! Interesting - they go around REBUILDING civilisations and lending technology to anyone who needs it! Actually that makes Starfleet and the Federation sound like a sort of Mirror Universe Borg... Where there are lots of different species on one ship... the ships are not geometric shapes... everyone is individual and there is no collective consciousness. It's also presided over by a large cow-man not a sultry fem-bot! Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Is it down to one thing that happened differently - such as, say, the locals not being in the mood to receive alien visitors right now, thank you very much - or is it ultimately like the theory in that Diane Duane novel which suggested that human nature itself is findamentally corrupted in some way in that universe?
DS9's mirror universe would seem to indicate the former, since the humans met during that show seemed generally good (if all rebel and such). Of course, that means that Sulu and Chekov were such bastards purely because of upbringing, which makes the nature-nurture debate fairly easy to solve in that universe.
And wouldn't it be more like "WE ARE THE BORG, RESISTANCE IS A-OKAY BY US!"? I'd make a French joke, but that's been done to death these days.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Will the Borg attack have happened in this timeline? Did an evil Enterprise-E crew come back in time to stop the Borg?
I'm guessing the Borg attack didn't happen. By the TNG era, the Terran Empire had fallen and humans were now slaves. Earth probably wasn't high on the Borg's list of planets to assimilate. Cochrane probably launched the Phoenix without problems.
That raises an interesting question, though. Is the Mirror Universe simply one in which the Borg and Enterprise-E did not go back in time?
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
No, it's one where George W. Bush was reelected in 2004... Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I realise answering my next question will require the services of someone who a) will admit to having read the Shatner books, b) actually finished them, and c) was paying attention throughout, but wasn't there some suggestion of one event tied to First Contact that might have created the Mirror Universe? Something about a Lake Riker on the moon, or whatever. However, I doubt whatever it was will be referenced in the upcoming eps. That'd be going to far for Coto. . .
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I admit it, I read some of the Shatner novels too. If I recall the moment of divergence between "our" universe and the mirror universe was down to the flip of a coin (quantum mechanics at work presumably) on the part of Cochrane deciding if he should warn the Vulcans about the Borg or keep it quiet. The result is two quantum realities, one where the Terran/Vulcan alliance gear up for an onslaught from the Borg centuries ahead of time and become the goatee wearing evil people we all know and love. While the novels are pretty poor (but so are most trek novels I've read), this concept isn't the worst theory I've ever heard.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the writers on Enterprise come up with although I'm reasonable comfortable that it'll somehow involve the Borg attack, or the absence thereof.
As for the thing with the Defiant, it all seams rather fun, which lets be honest, is all these "Mirror" episodes have ever been good for. I'm sure the actors will have a laugh playing something different for a change. Indeed the DS9 actors seamed to have a ball killing each other left right and centre. And why not have a laugh? This may be the last trek show/season ever, so they might as well have a little fun while it lasts.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
And their finally doing the ENT meets TOS technology I've always been hoping for. I wonder how if the Defiant will be a 100% copy of the Enterprise. Can they really make TOS-sets (and presumably uniforms) look more advanced than the (mirror) NX-01?
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
I don't know if they could leave the sets looking as they did in the original series - they might have to take a little artistic license and update a little. DS9 got away with it in "Trials and Tribble-ations" because it was a self-referential episode that was basically a knowing wink to the fans - for an episode that is trying to take a darker tone I think the disparity between the NX-01's advanced sets and the relative simplicity of the Defiant would be too jarring...
Incidentally I agree with sounding a slight note of caution on Enterprise seeking to tie up with plot notes on the original series all the time. There is surely a balance that can be struck between purely original episodes set in the Enterprise time frame and episodes that tie into, or refer to, plot elements from other series. Part of the problem of the SNW anthologies as far as I'm concerned is that most of the authors seem to think you can't write a story without tying it into an episode or movie in some way...the most striking example of which was a short story that dealt with Miral Paris and the events of Endgame which left me thinking "30 minutes of my life I will never ever get back!" :-)
If (and I say if) the Defiant features then I would be interested to see how they dress the sets...perhaps they could cover any changes by explaining them away as ones Archer and his crew have made since they took the ship over?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Elsewhere I've seen detailed analyses of "Trials and Tribble-ations" by members of the prop/costume/replicas community, harping on about all the details that were wrong in the episode. If I were the set designer working on this upcoming ep, I'd probably just think "Why bother trying too hard? No matter how close I get it, there'll still be someone who finds fault. . ."
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
quote:Originally posted by FawnDoo: [ - for an episode that is trying to take a darker tone I think the disparity between the NX-01's advanced sets and the relative simplicity of the Defiant would be too jarring...
It's also possible that we'll see the Defiant a while after Mirror-Archer has it, including modifications he would have had to make in order to run the ship. Unless his crew figured out every system in every way and used it as is. Which I don't expect. A bunch of "greeblies" on the consoles would cover up the 'retro' look of the original series and logically explain why Archer can run an advanced ship. And at the very least he'll paint a Sword 'n Earth decal on the doors.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
TOS era technology is more difficult to figure out than TNG era technology? It seemed like anyone and everyone, regardless of their tech level and ability, was able to flawlessly access any Enterprise-D or other 24th century systems.
Even 22nd Century thief Berlinghoff Rasmussen was able to figure out that time machine.
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
Hey, I'm grasping at straws here!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:And at the very least he'll paint a Sword 'n Earth decal on the doors.
And the kicker - he'll rename the ship "Enterprise", and the newish starship will remain in Imperial service over a century later, thus explaining why Evil Kirk and his Evil Crew have a ship that's basically identical to the REAL TOS Enterprise, despite having over two centuries' divergence.
Dun dun DUN..!
Mark
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
You just blew my mind.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
They don't really have to update the sets at all. Leave them like they were in TOS and have someone make an offhand comment about how minimalist things are apparently going to be in the future.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think they can get away with reproducing the old sets and still make them look viable. It all hinges on the lighting and computer displays really.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It seems like they're going to build a whole range of TOS sets! The cynical part of me says it's a bad idea to make Star Trek into fanboy mayhem, but damn, this is sounds like so much fun!
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Oh sure, so the Mirror-universe counterpart to the NX-class gets a prefix...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It's possible that the mirror universe prefix is inspired by the Defiant. They saw the "USS" and liked it, but thought it sounded too much like "Us! All Together! Love!". That's bad, so they made it "Iss", which sounds like a snake hiss. And if there's a more evil animal than a snake, I don't want to know.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Elsewhere I've seen detailed analyses of "Trials and Tribble-ations" by members of the prop/costume/replicas community, harping on about all the details that were wrong in the episode. If I were the set designer working on this upcoming ep, I'd probably just think "Why bother trying too hard? No matter how close I get it, there'll still be someone who finds fault. . ."
Although I hate stuff like this, do you know the site(s)? I want to see some nerd scream about the fact that Jein's Enterprise model looked better but SLIGHTLY INACCURATE when compared to the original.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
We've got some hints coming in now about what's very likely Enterprise's final destination:
Could be an attractor, that's for sure. My only question (and possibly hope) is whether or not we'll see their shiny new starship.
Mark
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So I wonder how the issue of where the weapons on a TOS Constitution are and what they look like will be handled. Not that they've gone crazy-go-nuts about making sure Enterprise's weapons are always coming from the right place, but they're usually coming from somewhere near the right area.
Secondly, I sure hope this intrusion from the 24th century episode isn't meant to act as a series finale, because filling up screentime with one-off guest stars doesn't sound like a good way to give Enterprise's characters a satisfying ending.
"How do our characters feel about the end of their voyage? Who cares! Look, a couple of people from a Star Trek people bothered to watch!"
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I dunno - this could be the compromise for not getting Shatner. Also, if we ARE to have this be the series finale (and the shelving of Trek for the forseeable future), there might be a certain piquancy to having the "firstest" and "lastest" crews interacting a bit.
Mark
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
quote: I'd make a French joke, but that's been done to death these days.
Hmmm. French Joke.....sounds like redundant nomenclature to me.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: TOS era technology is more difficult to figure out than TNG era technology? It seemed like anyone and everyone, regardless of their tech level and ability, was able to flawlessly access any Enterprise-D or other 24th century systems.
Even 22nd Century thief Berlinghoff Rasmussen was able to figure out that time machine.
That's because they were using Windows for an operating system
Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
See the link below for pics from the new Defiant sets...
Niiiice. Except for the "Constitution Class" on the dedication plaque.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
Whoa. Info overload.
Riker and Troi, huh? Could be good. Maybe we'll get to see the Titan.
Nice sets for the Defiant. I'm really looking forward to the comments Mirror Archer and Co. make about 23rd Century asthetics. Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I wonder if the CGI Defiant will actually have the registry NCC-1764 making the number canon.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
That would be very likely. NCC-1764 originates from the Concordance, possibly based on production memos. Since the original Making of Star Trek list does not mention the Defiant, we might assume that she is a relatively new ship in TOS.
Does that plaque really say "Tranquility Base"?
As for Riker and Troi, the only way I can see them appearing is in the beginning of the Mirror Universe episodes, during the (mirror) events of First Contact. That's not the season finaly, though.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote:Frakes And Sirtis To Appear In 'Enterprise' Finale?
quote:Paramount may be planning a shocker for the Enterprise season finale: a special guest appearance by former Next Generation stars Jonathan Frakes (William T. Riker) and Marina Sirtis (Deanna Troi).
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Niiiice. Except for the "Constitution Class" on the dedication plaque.
Well, this might be a later starship than the NCC-1701. And by that point Starfleet might have abandoned that silly "Starship class" nonsense and decided to give the class a real name.
Aren't the sets a bit too...clean looking. The bridge looks brand new. How long are evil Archer and co suppossed to have been on board? Won't they have painted? Shouldn't there be coke cans all over the floor?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Evil Coke�.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Also known as "Pepsi" Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
Gotta admit, those are some snazzy looking sets for the Defiant. The Jeffries' Tube is especially nice.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Someone used the word fanwank recently. It describes accurately the latest production report from startrek.com.
Basically: - New uniform insigina for Defiant - T'Pol in a TOS-miniskirt. - Hoshi not wearing very much either. - Tholians (including webs). - Mike Sussman is a dead crewmember. - Food clay. - The Evil Goatee is on Soval! - The Defiant is slightly newer than the Enterprise, and looks a bit different.
Fanwank is a good word.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Not mention the Gorn.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yes, that's a good word, too. It's got a sort of woody quality about it.
Posted by The Captain from M.I.K.E. (Member # 709) on :
it's a perfectly cromulent word.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That report mentions that there was some problem emulating the old style turbolift doors where someone had to manually open them. I'm confused. Haven't stagehands always manually opened the doors?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
In TOS, probably. But with the advent of motion sensor and what not, Trek doors have probably been automated for a bit...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
They weren't in TNG. I always thought that the doors were manual because otherwise they would open at inopportune times, such as in the middle of dialogue. Certainly Sisko's office doors in DS9 had a mind of their own (sometimes people walked straight in, sometimes he was hpages from ops, othertimes they would stand in front of them and ring the doorbell).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe the doors had an urgency sensor If you are walking briskly and you have a high blood pressure or something - it'll let you straight in - or the opposite - make you wait!
Maybe Sisko had settings for the door incase he didn't want to be disturbed.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: In TOS, probably. But with the advent of motion sensor and what not, Trek doors have probably been automated for a bit...
Nah - Enterprise doesn't have 'automatic doors' - they have to press a button to go through each door - that would give a cue for the stage/set guy.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I forgot to mention it, but that production report also talks of a TOS-era Federation flag on the Defiant, and it's the TMP flag. So the red banner is possibly not the actual flag, but something else.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
We get a proper Earth civilian leader! And the Ithenites mentioned in the Xindi arc are actually those copper-coloured guys from JotB! And they're possibly also a founding member of the 'Coalition of Planets'.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
OK... so that's the episode before the finale, but it's also tying up a story arc... meaning the finale will be a standalone episode. I not sure I'm enthusiastic.
So is this Coalition thing supposed to be a failed precursor to the Federation? Seems like an attempt to get the Federation formation idea into the series even though they know the series won't go on long enough to actually be able to include it.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Hey, they just open the final episode with a prologue: "Wow, these last three years were really interesting. Unfortunately due to malfunctioning sensors we were not able to record any of it. Thankfully we have managed to repair our optical sensor grid. And now on with the story..." thus making the show run for seven years after all...
No wait, that would rather be fitting for an episode of "Series ?" Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I always thought that the doors were manual because otherwise they would open at inopportune times, such as in the middle of dialogue.
My personal favorite was when someone walked through the door to their quarters, stopped immediately inside, and leaned back against the doors.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Spock - "The Naked Time" (I think (and I'm sure someone did in TNG too, although I can't think who)).
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Like in some of the infamous blooper reels... Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Somehow, complaints about the doors have always struck me as funny.
To somebody born in the seventies, it appears trivially easy to build doors that would open not due to mere proximity, but due to obvious and consistent movement towards the doors. Doppler indicators, three lines of code governing the door opener servo: nothing could be easier. The doors *should* know whether somebody wants to walk through them or lean to them, and they don't need to read the script for that! It's not 21st or 24th century supertechnology - it is early 1980s tech, which for some curious reason just never took hold in our universe, like video telephones or flying cars.
It is a semi-valid concern when a door is deliberately and for no good reason left ajar so that somebody can hear a piece of conversation. But that doesn't happen nearly as often as most nitpickers would have us believe.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
True. But there are other occasions where someone walks right up to a door without it opening. The person then turns around, says some dramatic dialogue, and then turns back, at which point the door decides to open.
As someone else once said, it's probably a "dramatic exit" sensor.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Actually that makes Starfleet and the Federation sound like a sort of Mirror Universe Borg... Where there are lots of different species on one ship... the ships are not geometric shapes... everyone is individual and there is no collective consciousness. It's also presided over by a large cow-man not a sultry fem-bot! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)