I just read on Empires website that TPTB at Paramount have released the plot synopsis for the next Trek movie. Yes, the one with the dumb name. It's here if you'd like to read it, and probably everywhere across the web too by now:
Could (considering the other potential spoilers from cast and crew plus the odd rumour here-and-there) this be good news? Or should we be getting out our peril sensitve glases? Not sure, but at least it's some brand new Trek!
And, it took more than 1/8th of a second to read!
[ February 07, 2013, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Fabrux ]
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah, there's a lot of talk of what "detonating the fleet" means. By itself, the phrase would suggest the destruction of a fleet of starships. But reading the rest of the synopsis, you get the sense of some sort of coup or uprising occurring in the Federation.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
I'm still looking forward to it, but the synopsis puts me into a typical complaining Trek fan mode.
It sounds like a very entertaining thrill ride, but not something that lives up to the words "star trek". I look forward to seeing 23rd century Earth, but I was really hoping this movie would be hurtling through the final frontier, taking full advantage of the freedom that the budget and technical capabilities have given the creators. Instead it sounds like we could have a very Earth-centric movie that's all about war, without scratching the surface of what's out there in the vast expanse of the universe. I'm having visions of a Transformers/Avengers style final showdown in a city on earth. But I fully accept that this press release is just a short paragraph that doesn't give a lot to go on, so my first impressions may be way off.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So the Enterprise will once again be the only ship available, as it'll be the only ship left and of course, Kirk will get promoted to admiral....
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Dark Knight Rises, anyone?
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Oh look....a cutout of the comm-badge on the poster. Why does this only make me think this will be worse than Nemesis?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I assume that's a building, but it kind of looks like the outer wall of a Borg cube. Having one crashed on earth would be novel, but a bit premature in this era.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
I'm guessing that it's someone, let's call him Mary Gitchell, escaping from some sort of building, lets say some sort of facility for cracking alkali metals, using (dah dun dun da dun) HIS SUPER MIND POWERS.
Oh, and he's nicked Morpheus's coat, and the planet seems to have stolen tower blocks from Shaghai, London and Middle Earth.
Anyway, it looks a bit Dark Knight-y, I agree, and tells you about as much. I'm setting my face to worried.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I can see the whole Batman thing in the poster.
In a some what unrelated note, that's how I feel about the Iron Man 3 trailer. The whole defeated hero thing. It's like the IM3 guys basically did their version of a The Dark Knight Rises trailer starring Tony Stark.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hobbes: I can see the whole Batman thing in the poster.
In a some what unrelated note, that's how I feel about the Iron Man 3 trailer. The whole defeated hero thing. It's like the IM3 guys basically did their version of a The Dark Knight Rises trailer starring Tony Stark.
Nonsense- Iron Man is the ultimate in "hero rebuilds his life after staggering fall from grace". Hell, Tony was a drunk living on the street for like three years back in the 80's...lost the company and everything. Rhodey became Iron Man. Just a few years back he ended up destroying his own companies to prevent a terrorist from weaponizing the repulsor tech in them into massive bombs.
In the 90's he got shot and paralized by a psycho ex-girlfriend. In the late 90's he made the Iron Man armor act as a means to walk again, but doing so gave him nerve damage...and he died. Rhodey became Iron Man.
Then he was revived a year later wih the introduction of an artificial nervous system and had to go through a year or so of painful physical therapy- useing a Telepresense rig to be Iron Man remotely (it's in the IM3 trailer!). Rhodey beame War Machine.
Then he got beaten neraly to death (in the armor!) and had to use the experimmental extremis Enhancile to save himself, becoming as much nanaotech machine as man.
Then he got made Secretary of Defense, only to have his reputation destroyed by the (insane) Scarlet Witch -making him drunk in front of the United Nations.
Then there was the whole Civil War, where he got to play facist thug, got made SHIELD's Director, had to blow off his own heel to stop the Mandarin from killing 95% of the human race....
Oh, and he deleted his own mind so the government cold not torture him and get all the heroes' secret identities from him.... Rhodey became Iron Man 2.0
Then he had his mind re-installed, but with none of the memories he had prior to Civil war and had to learn second hand why everyone hated his guts...
What's having your back broken compared to all that?
Bruce Wayne is a total pussy. Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
So: is that the Enterprise crashing into the San Francisco bay?
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
That's what I thought, since a previous part of the trailer showed it rising from an ocean. It certainly looks action packed...won't tempt me to view it at the cinema though. Last film I saw at the big screen was Episode II, wait for everything to be shown on TV now and if I like - DVD. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I guess the whole Gary Mitchell thing is looking a little bit more credible, since we've got a character whose haircut is suspiciously similar to Elizabeth Dehner's in "Where No Man Has Gone Before". (Then again, that might be old news. I haven't been keeping up.)
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
The blonde does look very much like Elizabeth Dehner; makes sense considering Cumberbatch is supposedly Gary Mitchell.
The IDW comic series has been running issues where they re-do TOS episodes with the JJ cast; WNMHGB was the first run they did. Dehner cancelled her transfer just before the Enterprise left on its mission to the barrier and conveniently wasn't on the ship. Mitchell was left on Delta Vega as in the episode and was supposedly killed by Kirk and Spock; they didn't specifically show his death, however.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: So: is that the Enterprise crashing into the San Francisco bay?
No, it's another ship. You can tell by the fact that the nacelle struts curve outward instead of inward; it has no secondary hull to speak of, and the nacelles look like a miniature version of the Sovereign class.
quote:Originally posted by akb1979: That's what I thought, since a previous part of the trailer showed it rising from an ocean.
No, that's another ship as well. The nacelles are not on struts, and there's no saucer section. It almost looks like an amphibious craft to me.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Upon reflection, I might be mistaken. I thought the whole thing rising out of the water was a ship, but looking again I think it's just two nacelles. It could be the Enterprise. But the ship crashing into the water definitely isn't.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
In a sense it's as though they've combined the characters of Gary Mitchell and Khan, which might explain some of the conflicting rumours (I could've sworn earlier in the year Trekmovie 'confirmed' that the villain was Khan?).
So now the movie opens with Mitchell feeling aggrieved that he was left for dead on a planet by Kirk, at some point he steals another Starfleet ship and there may even be an almost literal submarine battle.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Final Scene:
The Enterprise crew is being commended for apprehending Gary Mitchell and Admiral Pike has just finished the speech, the camera pulls away as if to go to end credits.
Suddenly, a thunderous sound is heard from above, a giant portal clears away the clouds from the Earth's atmosphere above the San Fransisco bay.
A giant ship crashes downward into the bay and into buildings along the coastline, nearly hitting the Golden Gate Bridge.
The water and dust settles, the camera pans forward slowly, revealing the hull letters:
U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-E
A few notes of the TNG theme are mixed into the score.... then silence...
Black.
Credits.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
That would be a very cruel way to end the movie.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
You can see "NCC-1701" on the nacelle of the ship rising out of the water. But I think the crashing ship is different.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Shucks,I was hoping for Garth of Izar. Anyway, I guess we have an answer as to why we don't see subs in the future.
Edit: Trekmovie has an interesting breakdown of each shot.
The Enterprise crew is being commended for apprehending Gary Mitchell and Admiral Pike has just finished the speech, the camera pulls away as if to go to end credits.
Suddenly, a thunderous sound is heard from above, a giant portal clears away the clouds from the Earth's atmosphere above the San Fransisco bay.
A giant ship crashes downward into the bay and into buildings along the coastline, nearly hitting the Golden Gate Bridge.
The water and dust settles, the camera pans forward slowly, revealing the hull letters:
U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-E
A few notes of the TNG theme are mixed into the score.... then silence...
Pan to a black and white image of Gene Roddenberry as a silent tear rolls down his cheek.
Black.
Credits.
There, I fixed it for you.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
I have a weird feeling that he's Khan. Super strength, lack of glowing eyes or telekinesis (at least on the preview), and a thirst for vengence that Gary Mitchell historically lacked. Seems to be calculating and intelligent. He's even talking like him; and I wouldn't be surprised if JJ pulled a fastball like that.
Still a lot of holes in this theory obviously.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
quote:Originally posted by Wes: Final Scene:
The Enterprise crew is being commended for apprehending Gary Mitchell and Admiral Pike has just finished the speech, the camera pulls away as if to go to end credits.
Suddenly, a thunderous sound is heard from above, a giant portal clears away the clouds from the Earth's atmosphere above the San Fransisco bay.
A giant ship crashes downward into the bay and into buildings along the coastline, nearly hitting the Golden Gate Bridge.
The water and dust settles, the camera pans forward slowly, revealing the hull letters:
U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-E
A few notes of the TNG theme are mixed into the score.... then silence...
Pan to a black and white image of Gene Roddenberry as a silent tear rolls down his cheek.
Black.
Credits.
There, I fixed it for you.
ROTFL. Yes. This.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
We still don't know who Peter Weller is supposed to be. He'd make an excellent Garth.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'm thinking that they combined gary Mitchell and Kahn- some bright light finds Gary Kahn in a suspended animation pod, awakens him and he uses his vast mental powers to make thhe Dark Knight Returns poster a reality, because why the fuck not, right? It's what I'd do, honestly.
This was posted over at SSM and it looks like a good observation to me:
quote: Didn't we read somewhere that Zach Quinto was not going to fill his 3-film contract and would back out? The scene shown here could be a nod to the original TWoK film and a way for ZQ to back out of the film...
So they're rollng up as much shit as possible into a loose STII framework...(facepalm)
Maybe we'll get a real treat and, after Starfleet is destroyed, the Romulans will show up to take over Earth afterwards- after all, they know their star is fucked right...I mean, eric Bana's character from the first movie did think to tell them, right?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Cumberbatch's character is called "John Harrison", and one of the trashed buildings you see him at in the trailer is on Qo'noS. We're going to see much more of the klingons, and they'll have a more TMP/TOS-ish look.
I'm getting some very good feelings about this.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
man I don't even what
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Cat got your tongue? Relax, they're deliberatly withholding information, that's why it's a teaser. A crazy theory that's floating around now is that Harrison is actually an adaptation of Robert April, a captain from the first pilot of TOS, and some of the Trek novels.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
They've got an actor named Gatt playing an android/cyborg called "GATT2000"? Does he say "beep, boop" and "Danger! Danger, James Kirk!"?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Its things like this that make me think they picked Abrams for these movies not because of his directorial talents but for his viral marketing/misinformation talents.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
A classic, HAL 9000, it´s a tribute obviously.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Anyone see the 9 minute preview on IMAX screenings of the Hobbit? Looks absolutely fantastic, further reinforcing in my mind that Cumberbatch is Khan.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: Anyone see the 9 minute preview on IMAX screenings of the Hobbit? Looks absolutely fantastic, further reinforcing in my mind that Cumberbatch is Khan.
I saw a bootlegged copy on Youtube. I'm not sure why you'd think BC is Khan, considering 1.) his character's name is John Harrison, and 2.) nothing he did in that trailer gave any indication that he's Khan.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
1.) John Harrison is merely a cover name IMO. Much like how Liam Neeson and Marion Coitillard were Ras and Talia al Gul respectively despite being named different.
*****SPOILERS******
2.) I felt that BC offering aid to this random family's daughter might be a ploy to turn more people on toward genetic engineering. Perhaps the father is some important person within the Federation? Plus the super strength displayed and the thirst for vengence points to Khan for me. In the end it's all smoke and mirrors with JJ and crew until the actual movie comes out.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Ah ha!
Well there's a second trailer out and also the film info on www.imdb.com states Alice Eve to be Dr. Carol Marcus.
Curiouser and curiouser...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Just because we see Carol Marcus doesn't mean that BC is Khan.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Actually, if you go to trekmovie, in the screencap section on the second trailer, they´ve blown-up the cap of the cryosection tubes on the two persons leaving the bay. The one on the right, the large chap apparently has a ponytail. Perhaps that´s Khan, and John Harrison is one of those in the boxes? Perhaps all his followers didn´t join him on the Botany Bay?
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Sorry, left, not right.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Just seen an interview video and BC states his character is referred to as "Harrison". He also refers to him as a "home grown terrorist". Hmm.
I didn't like BC...though I have the feeling that I might like him in this film.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Anyone notice the new Klingon BOP design?
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
I don't think it's a Klingon ship...although if it is, it's a small one - like a shuttle (which I think it's chasing or one of those fighters that flies overhead earlier in the trailer).
Cryo tanks...yeah...don't think it's Khan though...but I have been known to be wrong. Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Starship Freak: Actually, if you go to trekmovie, in the screencap section on the second trailer, they´ve blown-up the cap of the cryosection tubes on the two persons leaving the bay. The one on the right, the large chap apparently has a ponytail.
I don't see a ponytail, I see a shadow on the guy's collar. And they look like doctors wearing white labcoats to me.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Well, the ponytail reference was trekmovie´s, I´m not so sure either. However, the manner of clothes on the character to the left did remind me of the clothes Ricardo Montalban wore in Spaceseed.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
OK, bad dude locked in a cell, a seeming clone of Sally Kellerman's Dr. Elizabeth Dehner from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in one scene, I really am on the side of this being a Gary Mitchell story.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by WizArtist II: OK, bad dude locked in a cell, a seeming clone of Sally Kellerman's Dr. Elizabeth Dehner from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" in one scene, I really am on the side of this being a Gary Mitchell story.
Spoilers $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
Alice Eve's character has already been confirmed as Carol Marcus, and Cumberbatch's character has already been confirmed as "John Harrison," a new character. No WNMHGB here.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
A little late to the party eh Dukhat? This "John Harrison" character is probably a cover name for someone else, like Marion Cotillard in Rises.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: This "John Harrison" character is probably a cover name for someone else, like Marion Cotillard in Rises.
I've heard that theory, with that same example, and I don't buy it for a second.
There's no reason for "John Harrison" to be a pseudonym for anything, because the only two reasons why it would be a pseudonym are:
1 He's actually a character that only a TOS fanboy would know (i.e. Gary Mitchell, Garth of Izar, Gary Seven, etc.).
2. He's actually a character that the casual Non-Trek-fan moviegoer would recognize (i.e. Khan and Khan only).
Because Abrams is making these movies for the casual moviegoing audience, reason 1 would be a pointless thing for Abrams to do, because there's no payoff for the audience to get why Harrison's really someone else from TOS. And while most people who aren't Trek fans have at least a passing familiarity with Khan thanks to TWOK, that would be the only logical possibility. However, with everything we've learned about Harrison up to this point, there isn't a single thing that's identical to Khan from TWOK. So if he's completely different, why would he need to be the same character?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I have no idea whether the name is or isn't a red herring, but isn't there a potential third reason it might be, simply that Abrams gets off on fucking with people like this? He really enjoys messing with his audience, and fans in particular, or so I am led to understand by the initiated...
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Bear in mind, I rely on the pseudonym theory mainly because Orci and several others have stated that this next villain would be one from Star Trek canon and they wouldn't be creating a new one.
Then again, they could have been fucking with us on this one too. Its mind boggling.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Add odd aside- I was watching the credits on The Hobbit the other day and noticed that Cumberbatch is the voice of "The Necromancer"...but in that charcater's brief scene, we dont see his say anything! I'm thiking it's one of the deleted scenes that will be in the special edition- 20 minutes worth according to Jackson.
MY OFFICIAL PREDICTION- Carol Marcus is messing with making geneticly enhanced humans, made Gary Mitchell, he's all powerful, nuts and loves her, only to be rebuffes- she's in love with Kirk. Mitchell destroys everything when the womanhe's got the hots for gives it up for some other guy- and OF COURSE that guy's a total duchebag (Kirk).
We've all had this happen, and yes, it always results in wanton destruction.
Any counter theories? Lets put out cards on the proverbial table, gentelmen: we'll each make one prediction (as I have) and whoever is closest gets a prize.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Not that anyone else seems to care about them, but the current IDW comic run follows the canon events set during the first movie and supposedly doesn't interfere with STID. The first run they did was an adaptation of WNMHGB: Gary Mitchell was god-ified by the barrier and left for dead on Delta Vega (a different one).
They've even gone on to say that there are little hints in the comics as to the events of STID. They're not overly evident, but will be obvious after the movie. So they say.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I have no idea whether the name is or isn't a red herring, but isn't there a potential third reason it might be, simply that Abrams gets off on fucking with people like this?
But whether Harrison is really a pseudonym for a TOS character or just a rumor started by Abrams, he'd only be fucking with the TOS fanboys, who would only represent a relatively small percentage of the total moviegoing audience. What's the point of that?
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: Bear in mind, I rely on the pseudonym theory mainly because Orci and several others have stated that this next villain would be one from Star Trek canon and they wouldn't be creating a new one.
I think the whole "canon character" thing was meant for Alice Eve, not Cumberbatch.
[ December 29, 2012, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: But whether Harrison is really a pseudonym for a TOS character or just a rumor started by Abrams, he'd only be fucking with the TOS fanboys, who would only represent a relatively small percentage of the total moviegoing audience. What's the point of that?
I never watched Lost myself, but from talking to others I get the impression it's full of little pranks aimed at fans of the show and that in general such gimmicks are part of Abrams' schtick. Really all I'm saying is the guy knows how to "wag" a fanbase like there's no tormorrow and is not averse to doing so. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a kick out of it, especially knowing that ultimately anything and everything that gets anyone talking about the film (even if it's fanboys bitching on the internet) is ultimately to its advantage. Whether that's what's going on here or not, as I said, I don't know and don't really care. But it wouldn't exactly surprise me.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Huh. Just realized that I've gone from "wont bother" to "maybe on DVD" to "flip a coin" and see it in the theater.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Funny how that works, innit?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yes, but rather than be a victim of of advertizing or marketing ploys, it's the chatter of hardcore trek fans that has got me interested- mainly to see how badly they cock it up, to be honest. Not that paramount cares why I go to see their movie- ticket sales for crappy movies people watch are no different than sales to fans that loved the movie....but the inevitible merchandizing arm will suffer if the movie sucks: there was TONS of trek toys and such from the first JJ movie that gathered dust on shelves for over a year with no sales: it eventually got resold in bulk to secondary outlets like Big Lots,w here I saw the action figures from the first movie just this past month...and still no one was buying.
As to reasons to go- I like Cummerbunch as an actor- I liked the Sherlock series. Trek could certainly do with a well written (or at least well acted) villian. Tom Hardy (who hs sone on to some great parts) gave it a great shot as Shinzon, but that movie's writing and plot....man, I have ot watched Nemesis since it first hit DVD (and I own it). Still, Hardy's performane is the acting highlight of the movie.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
So it looks like it might be the big E after all...
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Yes, so just a few more minor changes to the ol' timeline!
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Go big or go home.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Anyone been reading the tie in comic? Apparently, Rober April appears, claiming to be commander of the Enterprise. He also bears a resemblance to Peter Weller.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
I have the first two graphic novel volumes, haven't been keeping up with it afterwards. Peter Weller as Robert April makes things interesting...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Found an appetizer. Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
HA HA HA
Oh wow
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
So, if a toycompany is to be believed, we will see a klingon bird-of-prey. Same ship as in trailer?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
When you think about it, there comes a point when the desire to sell merchandise trumps the desire to keep certain plot details secret.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
See, I knew it was a Bird of Prey in trailer, called it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Found an appetizer.
Okay, that was better than anything we'll see in this movie.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Well there were Birds of Prey before the splitting of the timeline, so hopefully the BoP will be getting the same kind of updated look the Enterprise got. I've seen the old BoP:s, I want more. And I thought the "proto"-klingon ships of ST:Ent were poorly executed.
If they can make the new one as sexy as these, I'm all in.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
But...we already got jumbo-inflated KBOPs in Yesterday's Enterprise. Just like the Cloverprise, they made no sense, were 300% larger for no damn reason and remain an embarassment to the franchise...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:Yesterday's Enterprise BoP:s /../ remain an embarassment to the franchise
Wow, I think all of 3 viewers cared about that in the original airing. It was another timeline of utter war, so there. If anything, "Yesterday's Enterprise" is the perfect precedent to legitimize scaling up BoP:s again. Not that they necessarily will.
Anyway, I never mentioned BoP sizes in my previous post, that was projection on your part. When it comes to new ships in new Trek-movies, I care about visual style, sound effects and soundscape, warp animation, weapons, interiors, etc. Focusing on how big an arbitrary ship is in comparison to another arbitrary ship from a movie 30 years ago is not on the top of my list. Especially not since about every Trek episode ever has misrepresented "100 000 kilometers" as being "ten ship-lengths away".
"Cloverprise" is cute, but I don't think it's gonna work any better than "Benghazi-Gate". And the Constitution class was not up-scaled without sense, Alex Jaeger explains it clearly: "Once we got the ship built and started putting it in environments, it felt too small. The shuttle bay gave us a clear relative scale — shuttlecraft initially appeared much bigger than we had imagined — so we bumped up the Enterprise scale, which gave her a grander feel and allowed us to include more detail." They're breaking with tradition for the sake of cinematography. Works for me.
On another note, I just rewatched ST:Insurrection, and had forgotten what a piece of crap that movie was. The story was ok on the face of it, if a bit small-fry, but the crew-scenes were interminably awkward, the Briar battles were rubbish and the S'ona were weak third-rate antagonists.
That's when I realized that apart from 2, 3, 6, and 8, the Trek movies are subpar when viewed with the standards used on other movies. First movie was slow and anemic, 4 and 5 felt frivolous and inconsequential, Generations was a jumbled mess hinging on an idiotic macguffin (the Nexus), Insurrection was an expensive two-part episode, and Nemesis was a death rattle. I really like the battles in ST:X, some of the best since TWoK, and Tom Hardy does try his hardest with what he's given (and after his success with Bane and all his other recent movies, some people might want to rewatch it just to see him), but yeah, it didn't have the immediate threat of First Contact, just a potential threat, and the Remans were unnecessary and shallow, where renegade Romulans would've been more logical and less Nosferatuish.
When I thought further I realized that even the good ST-movies are occasionally crappy or camp: TWoK-Scotty carrying his dying crewman to the bridge instead of sickbay for drama-points, Kruge conveniently getting a stone pillar raising under him so he can lunge at Kirk (at no group viewing I've done has that not gotten a laugh), Chang's obsession with the Original Klingon Shakespeare, Kirk's Superman-save of the President followed by standing ovation, Troi having a career-first lapse of judgement and getting shitfaced on whisky.
We tend to accept those things on the whole, take the good with the bad and view the old movies with a very forgiving eye, and that's ok, but let's be realistic, Trek has always been camp entertainment with an underlining of futuristic utopia, even in TOS (Gorn, Mudd), so the new movies have a much lower bar to clear than some make it out to be.
I agree ST:2009 had faults, but it was neither a snooze fest nor over-restrained like ST:1, which in some ways is the movie most similar to ST:2009 in scope and framework.
If nothing else, the trailer for the upcoming sequel makes it clear they're going to keep focusing on action and adventure, something Picard's crew ultimately tried and failed at, and I think the new crew does a better job with it. But I have no idea how the new movie will be and withhold judgement. After all, I liked Casino Royale and disliked Quantum of Solace. Skyfall was ok, except for the parliament scene.
[ February 23, 2013, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah 2,3,6,8 were the cream of the crop. 10 could have ended TNG (nay the entire prime universe) on a high note, having a decent story that would have brought lasting peace between the Federation and the Romulans. A ST 6 rehash perhaps, but I would have preferred it over the tired, hack story we got.
Also more info on Captain April from the comic. At one point April asks Kirk how his ship is doing, to which Kirk replies that April's Enterprise was decommissioned two years ago, and that Kirk's Enterprise is an entirely different ship. So that means that either the NX-01 had a really long service history, or that there existed another Starfleet Enterprise between the NX-01 and the NCC-1701, at least in this new universe.
Also Harry Mudd is now a blonde Bajoran woman, but let's not think about that.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nim, "Cloverprise" is the term the modeling community has adopted for this turkey- I assume neither credit nor responsibility. We're hoping that the ship crashes will be rebuilt with something closer to the Refit's proportions, or hell, as long as they are useing a saucer the size of an Ambassador, why not use that general configuration? Whatever they do, those zeppelin nacelles have got to go.
Alex Jaeger's POV aside, no, the ship really makes fuck off for sense- the external windows and docking ports are all for giants or at 1.8 decks tall- Bernd does a good breakdown of these issues at EAS. The ship was loosely based on Gaberial Korener's design, which I rather like, but then someone took that and started changing proportions untill it looks like a ship in a funhouse mirror...fucking hideous.
That being said, I think every other federation design in the movie is fantastic. The less said about that supposed Romulan mining ship the better- the pinacle of clusterfuck, and I thought the Scimitar was as bad as things could get!
As to ST:Insurrection, yeah, dont forget that the Sona command ship is flying backward for the whole movie- in spite of what should have been an obvious design simmularity between the command ship and battleship (pointy parts forward), the VFX boys made the CG model fly around ass-first...
You certainly have apoint about the campy part and how we overlook that stuff in favor of the cool parts- with the "great" movies having a higher ratio of awesome>camp.
Over at Starshipmodeler.net, we have been talking about the things in the Star Wars prequels that we LIKED, and it devolved into a total bashing of the awful camp that was RTOJ...
It's all about perception, I suppose- of all the Trek movies I think First Contact is the only one cheese free...I can forgive the drunken councelor bit as required for understanding Cochrane's world...sorta.
quote:Also Harry Mudd is now a blonde Bajoran woman, but let's not think about that.
If ever there was a sentence to damn the JJverse, that was it.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I hate Harry Mudd, if they can get a drunken, manizing bajoran girl to do his bits, like a Kristen Wiig type, that could be interesting. I was ok with Idris Elba as Heimdall in Thor, I think he's a cool dude.
I hope we get to see as many new designs as possible in ST:ID. I think that "klingon" ship might only be an attack shuttle, not a proper Bird of Prey, since it's chasing what seems to be a Federation shuttle.
Regarding the Prequels, I feel all three of them are weak, but AOTC had the best crowd-pleasing bits with the Obi-Boba fights and the lightsaber stuff in the end, only time in SW-movie history that someone dual-wields, if only for 2.5 seconds. Many people lament the Anakin romance scenes, I tend to ignore them altogether. But lets not get side-tracked here.
Yes, many people dislike the mining ship, I was glad it at least went in a different direction, opting for the Kraken-style of ships, violent and unpredictable. Which reminds me, I'm looking forward to getting Dead Space 3 in a few months. It's available for PC already, but I always wait at least six months until a few patches and bug fixes have come out. The first game was set on the Ishimura, which is now one of my all-time favorite game settings, one hell of a city ship, loved it, especially the bridge atrium, very eerie and panoramic. The third game is said to have some really nice and novel settings, looking forward to it.
I hope they bring in some more alien races into ST:ID, there are so many in the Federation. Still holding out for an official rendition of the Tzenkethi, at some point. ;
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:So that means that either the NX-01 had a really long service history, or that there existed another Starfleet Enterprise between the NX-01 and the NCC-1701, at least in this new universe.
The latter is true. April's Enterprise is shown a couple pages later.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Pictures please Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
It's basically just a ship that looks 99% like the Abramsprise (although the bridge interior is a cross between the new bridge and the TOS bridge). It would have been nice if the comic artists had any sense of originality, but apparently they don't.
And you can't see any registry number on the ship either.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yes I finally got a picture of it. How uninspired. Why would you build a ship, decommission it, and then build an almost exact copy of it?
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
The same reason why they give a recent academy graduate a command of the flagship and a full commission to captain. I'm just shooting in the air here though.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: The same reason why they give a recent academy graduate a command of the flagship and a full commission to captain. I'm just shooting in the air here though.
The comic writers and artists have nothing to do with the scriptwriters of the movies.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
double post Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: And you can't see any registry number on the ship either.
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yes I finally got a picture of it. How uninspired. Why would you build a ship, decommission it, and then build an almost exact copy of it?
Maybe it's supposed to actually be the same size as the TOS Enterprise, not the humongous Abramsprise?
Yep, I see it. It's not like they made it easy to find, did they?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
This is very sloppy work; the pylon attaching to the frontmost part of the nacelle, the saucer rim being 0 degrees incline, the ventral saucer texture is pasted on and doesn't curve with the perspective.
If I were still anally inclined (I left that part of me behind years ago, after retroactively naming all the ships in the docking scene of "Matrix Reloaded", then watching the sequel and having them all be destroyed off-camera in a throwaway-line. "Fuck this", said I), I would call this Aprilprise, since 'prising is the new black.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: The same reason why they give a recent academy graduate a command of the flagship and a full commission to captain. I'm just shooting in the air here though.
The comic writers and artists have nothing to do with the scriptwriters of the movies.
Unfortunately not so- back when DC had the liscence, they had srious restrictions on making new Federation designs- possibly there are simmular limits imposed on the current batch of comics...not that DC ever hired an artist that bothered to draw any of the ships better than a third grader. Hell, even as a Trek junkie back in the mid 80's I could not stomach their comics.
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: And you can't see any registry number on the ship either.
On the other hand, looking at that pic, I thin the artist might just suck- his editors too, for letting that get to press. I particularly like how the artist added no aztec pattern and only minimal detail and how the colorist decided to just impose some rectangles over te saucer that in no way match the ship's hull or perspective. Amazing that such shit can be considered professional work while hundreds of fansites turn out incredible caliber work just for the love of Trek. On the plus side, it looks like they put the correct number of windows to match the decks on this ship, unlike thhe Cloverprise...I'm sure that it was unintentional though, as they did not put any other details like docking ports pr RCS or any detail in the deflector or...
Really, the best thing Paramount could do would be to give the comics franchise to Dark Horse- they are losing the Star Wars liscence this year when it's terms expire because Disney now owns SW and Marvel...but damnit, Dark Horse too SW to amazing new heights- they could do as much for Trek by focusing on the so called Lost Era between TOS' movies and TNG.
Nim that large expansive bridge you linked in looks cool...but the central open area is either a wste of space or possibly genius- I can see many people gracefully moving through that area in zero G, each with their own portable (or holographic) command station. On a spaceship, I'd guess clastraphobia would be a real issue after a while, so making the working areas as open as possible would make sense.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Based on that I wouldn't read too much into the 1701-registry of April's Enterprise. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:Nim that large expansive bridge you linked in looks cool...but the central open area is either a wste of space or possibly genius- I can see many people gracefully moving through that area in zero G, each with their own portable (or holographic) command station. On a spaceship, I'd guess clastraphobia would be a real issue after a while, so making the working areas as open as possible would make sense.
That's just the right half of it, too, it's half again as big to port/left. That's the "main Atrium", as it is a mining ship I suppose they need a good view of operations, it's all consoles and crew stations. The captain has the definite bridge module with main computer holo-access in a room right below (that's a fun trip).
A few of the scenes in the Star Trek-trailer actually felt a bit inspired by Dead Space, I hope they take more cues from it, especially regarding how DS likes to throw a location set on its side narratively and literally, without warning. Of course, Dead Space stands on the shoulders of Alien/Aliens (and The Thing), there are more than one scene in the DS-series that come very close to inducing epileptic seizure.
Would be nice if there was some John Carpenter-influence in ST:ID.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Unfortunately not so- back when DC had the license, they had serious restrictions on making new Federation designs- possibly there are similar limits imposed on the current batch of comics...not that DC ever hired an artist that bothered to draw any of the ships better than a third grader. Hell, even as a Trek junkie back in the mid 80's I could not stomach their comics.
I was referring specifically to the Star Trek '09 tie-in comics, where pretty much everything in them was contradicted by the film itself.
quote:Originally posted by Spike: Have fun finding the errors in these two panels:
Based on that I wouldn't read too much into the 1701-registry of April's Enterprise.
Now that's just sloppy. Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Unfortunately not so- back when DC had the license, they had serious restrictions on making new Federation designs- possibly there are similar limits imposed on the current batch of comics...not that DC ever hired an artist that bothered to draw any of the ships better than a third grader. Hell, even as a Trek junkie back in the mid 80's I could not stomach their comics.
I was referring specifically to the Star Trek '09 tie-in comics, where pretty much everything in them was contradicted by the film itself.
Funny, since it was supposed to fill th gaping plot holes with backstory and such... As to those panels..I guess it's supposed to be various alternate realities or some...shit?
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
The new trailer is revealing a new type of starship - similar to the 'Enterprise' class (I think this is the same ship that is crashing in the San Francisco bay) and we see another ship of the Newton class, now with a visible registry: NCC-0718. This is the second ship with a registry that is starting with a zero.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
We also see a second starfleet ship docked at the starbase.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
and a smallish one?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Is there a new trailer since the Superbowl?
EDIT: Okay, there IS a new trailer. Looks like Pike is walking again?
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: EDIT: Okay, there IS a new trailer. Looks like Pike is walking again?
This was quit a surprise for me as well, but, hey, this IS an alternative universe after all.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Starship Freak: We also see a second starfleet ship docked at the starbase.
I think this is also a Newton type ship, but I'm not sure if this ship is docked, because it seems to be rotated compared to the space station.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Peter Weller is CnC - Starfleet!
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
$$$$ Spoilers
So, ready yourself for spoilers here, because I will disect the trailer now:
The set up for the main plot (after the Imax preview leaves off) seems to indeed be a terrorist plot in London. Actually, the GI Joe film seems to blow up London as well. Hmm. Ayway, the Union Flag is shown still to have blue in it, presumably meaning that Scotland will vote "no" next September.
Robocop is indeed the top dog at Starfleet, and apparently is Carol Marcus's father, chairing a big important briefing. Cucumberpatch is apparently "one of our top agents", so we may see some Section 31 action, phwoar! Also from that meeting, it looks like the pip things on the epaulettes are indeed rank badges - Kirk has 4 grey, Spock 3 grey, Pike has 4 gold and Robocop has 5 gold. All are at the big meeting where Sherlock tries to kill them then beams out from what appears to be a cross between an apache helicopter and a kids ride outside the supermarket.
Alice Eve as CArol Marcus gives Sherlock a big evil stare. Telepathic maybe? No, because she's Carol Marcus, so shut up! Also, in the nu-niverse Starfleet uses the rifles from First Contack painted grey. And speaking of security Chekov's a redshirt! Hope that goes well for him...
Then, there's a fight, in what might be the blown up bit of London, with Spock and Sherlock on a flying scafolders rig, a bit like in that awful, awful episode 3. Except the lava happened earlier.
Time for another pwoar I think! Carol Marcus gets her kit off, apparently to Kirks confusion. Oh, and it seems that Starfleet issue divisional bras, but not knickers.
And finally, following on from the stills of a battered Enterprise falling from orbit, it looks more like it is the Enterprise splashing down, especially as the nacelle we see hitting a building looks very Enterprise-like.
So, that's the film pretty much sown up, thanks trailer people, you continue to ruin it for everyone.
That's my tuppence worth, now roll on May!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Actually I thought that the rifles look like the one's the MACOs used on Enterprise. Also I think Admiral Robocop might be referring to the father of the sick girl Cumberbun recruits to do his bidding. I mean he could be an agent too, but that seems cliched. I do wonder about the superhuman strength he appears to exhibit. I remember one photo of Harrison shows him having a protruding spine, like he's an alien or has some apparatus attached to his back. I can't wait to see that other ship that crashes into the ocean, its so sleek and angular.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon: And finally, following on from the stills of a battered Enterprise falling from orbit, it looks more like it is the Enterprise splashing down, especially as the nacelle we see hitting a building looks very Enterprise-like.
Although she is definitely plummeting from orbit. Rather curious that they would try and mislead us like that.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Ayway, the Union Flag is shown still to have blue in it, presumably meaning that Scotland will vote 'no' next September."
Well, TNG told us that Ireland will be reunified in a few years, but the flag still has the St. Patrick's cross on it, too. Maybe it's being displayed for historical purposes.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
The new rifles could be the First Contact ones redressed - with elements reminiscent of the EVA Rifle and the MACO rifle in there.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"Ayway, the Union Flag is shown still to have blue in it, presumably meaning that Scotland will vote 'no' next September."
Well, TNG told us that Ireland will be reunified in a few years, but the flag still has the St. Patrick's cross on it, too. Maybe it's being displayed for historical purposes.
Yes, well, I treat that like I treat The Doctor signing himself as "Dr. W" in The Underwater Menace". It's cannon, but I cough loudly so I can't see or hear it. And since the BBC never showed it I've not actually seen the line anyway!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Alternatively, even if Scotland does secede, maybe they just don't bother to change the flag. I certainly hope that, if it does really happen, they don't change their flag to this :
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
They could replace the blue with green for Wales. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
"Yer all clear, lad. Nau let's blow this theng and go home."
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
So I'm wondering if maybe events of this movie cause Carol Marcus to leave Starfleet? Something that results in her raising David with a strong dislike of the organization and their activities...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: They could replace the blue with green for Wales.
As long as it's not another idiotic three colored vertical striped flag....or a shamrock. A shamrock would be laughably almost impossibly awful.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Maybe they should just adopt the Welsh flag straight up. I mean, thing's got a friggin' dragon on it. Come on.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Sovereign-class. They found more red matter. New temporal incursion.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Some people are musing that John Harrison is actually a young Jean-Luc Picard. Crazy kids.
According to some sources the ship is classified as a dreadnought, with many weapons, but only a small crew. It is apparently 3 to 4 times the size of the Nu-Enterprise, which considering the "official" dimensions of the Nu-Ent, means this ship is truly a behemoth.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yep. Juuuusssst when I thought NuTrek was as bad as possible....Bernd must be having kittens.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Great, another fugly über-ship.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Well, it is in the tradition of star trek, if you consider the works of Franz Joseph who had a dreadnought with a third nacelle in his book. And there was a dreadnought (in the form of a baloon!) in the animated series...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Starship Freak: And there was a dreadnought (in the form of a baloon!) in the animated series...
A minor point, but IIRC it was only referred to as a dreadnought in the novelization by Alan Dean Foster, not in the actual episode "The Practical Joker," where it was an oversized replica of the Enterprise herself. However, the dreadnought Entente was referenced in the Epsilon IX comm chatter in The Motion Picture.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
And unfortunately, the diagram was for some reason removed from the bridgestations where we did see FJ:s other ships, saladin/hermes/ptolemy-class vessels. I wonder why they only removed the dreadnought?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
They didn't remove it. The diagram of the other ships were used, but it showed the dreadnought only as an outline. If one looked very closely, the outline can be made out. The diagram of the actual dreadnought wasn't used.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
I disagree. Looking at the screencap in question (See Ex Astris) it is impossible to see an outline. There is an obvious gap on the bridge monitor where a diagram of the dreadnought is seen i FJ:s book, but I do not see an outline at all. If you do, could you please post a pic? On all the ones I have seen, there are no obvious lines.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
This is very interesting, I didn't know Trek had Federation dreadnought concepts in past series/movies. An entire new class of ship, very appealing.
It looks very uparmored and ablative, wonder if it has any new types of weapons.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Well, the trailer shows some sore of railgun-y thing aiming at the Enterprise...
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
If the roundbally thingy was from the dreadnought, perhaps that feature was the launchpad device?
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I'm curious, the one shot of the Even-More-Monsterprise enemy ship feels like a Frankenstein kitbash of a Sovvy, a E-C, and the Warped-Timeline Enterprise. Could this be some type of Universe jumping story?
I swear the next movie will have a ship the size of the Magog World-Ship.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Well, hey, why wait until the 29th century (or whenever it was, can't be bothered to look... 26th?) to build something the size of the Enterprise-J?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So, since Abrams says "bigger is better", does this mean we'll see a solar system sized Death Star? Maybe a Super-Duper-Star-Destroyer? 4 meter long lightsabers for that ultimate in pallic one-upmanship?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I want there to be a scene in the movie like this,describing the dreadnaught.
The dreadnaught is the largest Federation vessel ever constructed...15 million tribbles can fit inside its massive hull...armed with 20 phaser banks, 16 photon torpedo launchers, and 12 plot contivances... Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Who was it kept designing post-Next-Gen era Starfleet ships with hollow saucers (i.e. a ring)? Sternbach or Eaves? Because it looks like their wish has finally come true, sort of...
(not sure I can hotlink the image but am gonna try anyway)
[ April 23, 2013, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Fabrux ]
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Shame on you for hotlinking the image; you should know we have a no-side-scrolling rule around here... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
This is supposedly the USS Vengence a name which really hammers home that Abrams completely missed the fucking point of Roddenberry's bright peaceful Federation- that mankind had outgrown his petty past and well, were peaceful EXPLORERS.
Are those ball-turretts on either side of the deflector or did some redneck slap some fake testicles on his ride to impress the ladies at Space-Walmart?
Yeah...not impressed. As someone at SSM pointed out, the ship was designed by Abrams. Sure there are designers and illustrators and whatever, but they ultimately show the director what they've got and then do whatever the director wants- John Eaves gave a talk at Wonderfest to this effect- that for Enterprise the art dept first submitted Deadalus type designs and they ended up with the Akiraprise.
I'd say "Dont blame the designer" but since we really saw no credit go to the designers in the first JJtrek movie, I guess that point is moot.
Since even the high res pic is VERY dark, here's a lightened version to show some more of the EVIL SHIP. You know it's EVIL since it's dark grey. http://i.imgur.com/x1pGCoa.jpg
That is one seriously ugly fucking design- worse than the worse FASA design...I mean, look at that secondary hull! Someone said it looks like a Michael Bay Decepticon design and IO have to agree.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Very nice that they add 1701A-style nacelles, and those weapon stations look interesting. Fast-acquisition targeting, I assume. They had that already back in DS9 on those station-turrets, weird that they never used that again, since it was state-of-the-art Federation tech.
The engineering hull looks very uparmored, I wonder if they will use the magic word when discussing it. Also, the saucer shape clearly looks Excelsior-inspired, since it doesn't hace a concave rim taper. I like it.
Like I heard elsewhere, it makes sense that it would be built in a sort of knee-jerk reaction to the Nero incident, like with the 9/11 fallout.
[ April 24, 2013, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
As someone at SSM pointed out, the ship was designed by Abrams.
Sorry, but that can't be right. Abrams is a film director, not a starship designer. Undoubtedly this is just more hearsay from Abrams-haters.
This ship has John Eaves written all over it, from the holes in the saucer to the clearly 24th century design. While Eaves himself is a very nice guy, his ship designs all tend to look the same no matter what time period they are supposed to be from.
Do I like this ship? Well, no, not really. I didn't like the nuEnterprise either. Am I going to let it detract from my enjoyment of the movie? Not at all.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Here's a brief aft view of the ship from the Japanese trailer. Purple impulse drive, interesting.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Since even the high res pic is VERY dark, here's a lightened version to show some more of the EVIL SHIP. You know it's EVIL since it's dark grey. http://i.imgur.com/x1pGCoa.jpg
That is one seriously ugly fucking design- worse than the worse FASA design...I mean, look at that secondary hull! Someone said it looks like a Michael Bay Decepticon design and IO have to agree.
WUURRGGGGHHHHH! Wow, I was just sick a tiny bit looking at that.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
UGGHH. That looks like one of those horrible spaceship paintings that used to be on the Star Trek books from the 70's.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Having digested (and re-digested) that picture, the following musings have coallesed in my mind.
Why does it have a fecking great hole in it - what advantage does that confer?
Why so big? A black ops ship that big can hardly sneak around and would be difficult to disguise in a ship yard or other facility.
What are the testi for? Guns presumably.
Do the rail guns come out of the glowing tonsil, or the two apparent ports behind the cut out?
Are all of the escape podesque hatches concealing guns?
Why is the secondary hull built out of lego?
Are those four torpedo bays above the deflector?
Is the lack of windows, hatches etc, stylistic (its a black ops ship, so they are an unneeded frill)? Or is it a scaling thing?
I truely am intrigued by this ugly behemoth. I want to see what it can do (though I expect it will be way over the top, after all they have to outdo the last film) and I want to know the story finally.
However (and this could change when I see the film) the design really does not fit in "my" Star Trek universe, even post TNG. We shall see, but I agree with all of those who liken it to a mad fan boy doodle in their school book. Not my cup of tea at all.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Why in hell would any Trek ship have railguns...aside from the "JJ thought they looked kewel on NuBSG"...
Blerg.
The ship looking like ass is severely disapopinting but Cummerbach is still getting my money- I really enjoied the Sherlock TV show and he looks to have really beefed up for this role as well- I think he's got the acting chops to be a great Trek villian.
Of course, so did Eric Bana. And Tom Hardy Abd F. Murray Abraham And Malcolm McDowell, for fuck's sake.
Trek really knows how to piss away some great acting potential in it's villians, y'know that?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Jason, you might want to follow John Harrison on Twitter. He has some very interesting things to say.
As for the Vengeance, what's going on with sensor dome? It's like a cylinder with swirling lights in the middle.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
That Twitter stream is hilarious.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
The Twitter stream is indeed hilarious, but I think there are some hints dropped in there. Seems quite obvious to me that Harrison is an Augment.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
So, um, in case anyone wants to read a synopsis...
Five minutes before entering Pike's office, Kirk had been skipping along after Spock saying, "Yeah, we're cool. I haven't lost a single man. Pike's gonna give us the five year mission" and the meeting with Pike completely bursts his bubble. When Spock is dismissed from Pike's office and he talks to Kirk alone, he really rips into him, in a different take to the one we saw in the trailers. He's really angry, but you realise that Pike sees Kirk almost as a son and feels he can do much better. Kirk's command is ripped away, they give the Enterprise back to Pike, Spock is assigned to the USS Bradbury. Kirk leaves with his tail between his legs. Greenwood was fantastic in this scene. The movie really started here for me. . . . Er, yes, it's Kirk and Spock's hands on the glass. Yes, BC is Khan. Yes, Marcus is Section 31 Black ops.
There's another fantastic scene between Pike and Kirk the bar. Kirk is completely gutted an Pike tells him he asked for him as first officer aboard the Enterprisr, because he believes in him. Apparently he really had to go to bat with Admiral Marcus for the appointment.
Back in London, we all know Khan's blood saves the dying child and he enlists the father to bomb the Starfleet Data Archive. All the captains and first officers meet at Starfleet headquarters to plan strategy. Marcus reports that it was Harrison, and ex Sect 31 black ops specialist. Kirk is looking at vids from the bombing, and in a very cool extreme Google Earth kind of thing, he zooms in on Harrison. Kirk starts to ask why Harrison would bother to bomb a Data Archive when he knows all th material is n public record and starts to question the real motive, but for once he's unsure of himself and shuts up. Marcus has to wheedle it out of him. . . . Kirk realises its just a ploy to get everyone together in the one room just as Harrison shows up to blow them all to Kingdom Come. Pike is badly injured, Spock runs to help him while Kirk picks up a gun and starts firing away at Harrison's ship, then throws some sort of piece of metal on the end of a fire hose thing into the ships vent, sending it crashing down, but not before they get a look at each other. As Pike gasps his last Breath, Spock melds with him. Kirk runs over and sees Pike is dead and bursts into tears, literally sobbing uncontrollably with Spock looking on. It's a very Powerful scene. It feels like that is Kirk experiencing the loss of his father. . . . They find out that Harrison has fled to Kronos, in Klingon space, "The one place we cannot go." But Kirk insists on being allowed to go after him. So they devise a plan to travel to the edge of the Neutral Zone and Marcus organises for Kirk to carry a payload of advanced torpedoes that they have been developing. They beam them all aboard Enterprise, but Scotty won't sign off on the manifest because their shielding means he can't scan them to see what's inside. Therefore he refuses to have them aboard his ship because he doesn't know what danger they present. He also has a philosophical problem with the torpedoes and challenges Kirk. He doesn't like the military op. He wants to know if they are still explorers. Kirk orders him and he refuses, saying Kirk will have to fire him. So he does. Kirk appoints Chekov as Chief engineer and tells him to go get a red shirt. We all squeal. Scotty leaves the ship . . . Spock/Uhura are fighting. It's almost like a teenage spat. Spock is seriously having girl trouble. Uhura's mad at him because she thinks he doesn't feel. That he endangers his life without a thought about how it affects him. It's not unlike the accusations Kirk was hurling at Spock earlier. Calling him a traitor and a robot. She's pretty snitty and they have a bit of an argument on the way to Kronos with Kirk reluctantly in the middle. Then Spock suddenly reveals that he does feel. He recounts feeling Pike's death - the pain, the fear, the loneliness. He says he felt a similar thing at the death of Vulcan. He never wants to have to feel like that again. We see Kirk and Uhura both rect, chagrined. They have been unfair on Spock. On a side note, Uhura seems to really like Kirk now. She worries about him a lot. There is also a lot of touching. Everyone is always caressing everyone else. Lots of closeups of hands on arms or shoulders. Fanfic, here we come. . . . Sorry, just trying to say things the way they happened because it's more engaging that way. Just a fact dump is not going to be very fair to the movie.
In Engineering, Chekov discovers some weird fault or anomaly with the engines and Kirk instructs him to work on it. He leaves Sulu in command, and Sulu broadcasts to the surface that he has a whole pile of high-powered torpedoes pointing at them. Uhura goes with Kirk and Spock in the shuttle to find Harrison. She speaks Klingon, so this actually makes sense. After a StarWars-esque chase, the Klingons outnumber our galant trio but then Harrison shows up and starts wiping the floor with them all. He then walks up to Kirk and Kirk just lays into him (very neanderthal) and the blows just bounce off Harrison. Then Kirk decides he's not going to kill him, but take him into custody so he can stand trial on behalf of Admiral Pike.
I forgot to mention, a weapons specialist called Carol Wallace has joined the Enterprise to look after the torpedoes. Spock is suspicious and runs her data. Discovers Wallace is her mother's name. She's Marcus' daughter. I am getting a little confused about the scene order, but they decide to beam one of the torpedoes down to some planet to see what's inside. McCoy goes with Carol, but when the torpedo arms and catches McCoys arm in it, he screams at them to beam Carol up to save her, but she bravely stays to try and disarm it, sort of winning their trust. She yanks loose some big component, the outer casing slides open, and of course inside is a cryotube with a frozen body. Back on the ship, Harrison asks Kirk how many torpedoes they have and they tell him, they have a payload of 72. Isn't that how many cryotube turns were aboard the Botany Bay? . . . Kirk asks Harrison who he is really. He replies that he was a product of genetic engineeriing from 300 years ago and says his name is Khan (audience whoops, groans, cheers). He starts to cleverly bait Kirk, saying that Marcus scanned space for their vessel then revived Khan and held his crews' lives over his head, forcing him to work for them, develop superior weaponry etc. He asks, is there nothing you wouldn't do for your crew, Captain? This gets Kirk in his Achilles heel. He obviously has separation issues and doesn't want to lose a single member of his little family. Bones takes some of Khan's blood and injects it into a dead Tribble.
Then Marcus shows up in a huge Dreadnaught-class ship. He tells Kirk that Khan is manipulating him and is surprised that Kirk didn't kill him. Kirk is suspicious of Marcus and won't hand Khan over. Says he's gonna take him back to Earth to stand trial. Marcus targets Enterprise and starts blowing them out of the sky. Kirk pleads for the lives of his crew, offers his life in their place, but Marcus just wants to destroy them. Carol jumps in so her father knows she's aboard, hoping that will stop the slaughter, but he just beams her aboard, then just as the Enterprise is about to be blown away, the Dreadnaught's weapons go offline. Scotty has smuggled himself aboard and is in control of the engineering deck. By communicator, Kirk decides to space jump aross with Khan with Scotty opening the port at his end. I the meantime Spock calls New Vulcan... . . . Spock Prime appears on the view screen. Young Spock asks if, in his travels, they ever encountered a character called Khan? Spock Prime replies that Spock knows he swore he would never reveal details of their lives, but Khan was the most dangerous foe they ever faced and would kill them all without a thought. Spock asks whether they were able to defeat him and Spock Prime replies, "at great cost". . . . Just as Spock is hearing of Khan's treachery on the Enterprise, Khan escapes from Kirk on the Dreadnaught. To cut a long story short... A big space batltle ensues, with Khan demanding that the cryotubes be beamed aboard the Dreadnaught, but Spock is a step ahead of him and Bones has removed the Cryotubes and Spock has armed the torpedoes, so they blow a hole in the Dreadnaught and as Khan plummets towards Earth (did I mention he had pursued them at Warp back to Earth? ) he aims the dying ship at Starfleet Academy to wipe them out. But the Enterprise is also in trouble. The Warp core is offline and the area is irradiated with no way to fix it. So begins the final scenes of TWOK, in reverse, even with most of the same dialogue. Kirk goes into the chamber / giant beer factory, with Scotty screaming after him, gets the core back on line, Spock defeats Khan then gets a frantic message from Scott that he'd better get down there.
It's a lovely death scene, really. Poor Spock/Quinto is inconsolable. There is a lot of crying in this movie. Kirk dies. . . . Now you can guess what happens after that, can't you? We certainly did. And it did.
I'm getting pretty punchy. Might go and have a look at some of the other reviews and head to bed.
My impression was that, at first I thought all the Kirk/Spock Logic vs Feeling argument was a bit simplistic, but over the course of the movie, it played out beautifully with some great lines, and lots of emotion/tears. Similarly, the Kirk/Pike scenes are all wonderful.I think people will find the emotional component of this movie satisfying.
The effects are often brilliant, but I wasn't a fan of the 3D at all. At first it was cumbersome and distracting and after that I got used to it, but it doesn't really bring anything extra to the movie.
As for the parts of the plot that are rehashed from TOS prime universe. For a moment there, we got a bit excited that they were going to put a whole different twist on them, but it just wasn't enough of a twist, which left the end of the movie a bit predictable and flat. They perhaps should have branched into more unknown territory.
But as a movie about family, arguing and fighting but getting to know and trust and value each other, it was really lovely. It was certainly action-packed. If TWOK was a 9/10 and ST09 was an 8/10, I'd probably give this a 7, mostly for the raw emotion of the performances.
I hope that satisfies the hunger for this evening.
Yes, it's a Section 31 black ops warship commanded by Admiral Marcus with a bunch of nifty superweapons. The Klingons are becoming extremely aggressive and Starfleet needs a way to stop them, so Section 31 develops this massive ship (presumably reverse engineered from scans of Nero's ship the Narada).
Then using information given to Starfleet by SpockPrime, because he was worried about them encountering Khan without warning, Admiral Marcus searches for and finds the Botany Bay sometime after the events of the first movie. They thaw Khan (Cumberbatch) from cryosleep, and force him to assist them as an agent of Starfleet with the alias of John Harrison or else they'll kill his 72 surviving followers still in cryosleep.
John Harrison by the way is a combination of the original three names for Khan in the early drafts of Space Seed. He was first named Harold Erricson. Then he took on the alias of John Ericson while trying to conceal his true identity.
John + Harold Erricson becomes John Harrison in STiD.
Anyway, Kirk first battles Admiral Marcus, but later spacejumps over to the ship with Harrison/Khan to capture it. At this point Kirk doesn't know Khan's identity and thinks Marcus is the greater threat. But once Harrison captures the ship, he reveals his identity to Kirk and a running battle ensues at warp with Khan pursuing Kirk all the way back to Earth, which is where the scenes of the USS Vengeance crashing and the Enterprise falling in the atmosphere take place.
Kirk takes the place of Spock and sacrifices himself TWoK style to save the ship at the last moment. He dies of radiation exposure. However, Khan's blood (which they tested earlier) has regenerative powers, and it's hinted at the end of the film that Kirk will be revived.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Now I think I have a headache after that spoiler.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Inorite? Although I will say a spoiler like this seems like the sort of thing Abrams might leak.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
So, does the Vengeance have a registry? Any other Starfleet vessels in the movie?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Yeah, I'm really trying to stay spoiler free until I see the movie, but I wouldn't mind knowing about any other ships.
I did see a Newton-type ship docked at the Starbase in one of the trailers with "NCC-071x," with the "x" being either a 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, or B Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah, I swear that Newton type has registry of NCC-071/B, even though its probably 0718, but that 1 looks funny.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
As someone at SSM pointed out, the ship was designed by Abrams.
Sorry, but that can't be right. Abrams is a film director, not a starship designer. Undoubtedly this is just more hearsay from Abrams-haters.
This ship has John Eaves written all over it, from the holes in the saucer to the clearly 24th century design. While Eaves himself is a very nice guy, his ship designs all tend to look the same no matter what time period they are supposed to be from.
Do I like this ship? Well, no, not really. I didn't like the nuEnterprise either. Am I going to let it detract from my enjoyment of the movie? Not at all.
No, the SSM guy wrote on how the director is ultimately the one that says what a ship should and will look like- artists take direction from him and make changes at his say so. Even great designs get rejected in favor of stuff like a silver akira with the nacelles up or nacelles or a ship that transforms into a giant deathray whatthehellever other silly notion. Check out Sternbach's lovely first Voyager design for example...and we got that football with the tiny flapping nacelles instead!
And we know it was Abrams himself that decided the Cloverprise would be larger than the Soverign just to make "his" ship the biggest...but that's a rant that Bernd does better than I ever could, so go to EAS for that! Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
No, the SSM guy wrote on how the director is ultimately the one that says what a ship should and will look like- artists take direction from him and make changes at his say so.
Still, I'm sure Abrams's total involvement consisted of nothing more than him going to his art department and saying, "I need you guys (or guy, in this instance, since it's quite obvious the ship was designed by John Eaves) to create a big, mean-looking ship."
quote:Even great designs get rejected in favor of stuff like a silver akira with the nacelles up
Actually, UPN wanted to use the actual Akira class for the NX-01. How stupid would that have been? But really, comparing the UPN suits to JJ Abrams is like apples and oranges.
quote:Check out Sternbach's lovely first Voyager design for example...and we got that football with the tiny flapping nacelles instead!
The only "real" difference between what Sternbach drew up and what we eventually got were the nacelles. If Voyager's nacelles were larger and longer, it would have looked fine.
quote:And we know it was Abrams himself that decided the Cloverprise would be larger than the Soverign just to make "his" ship the biggest.
I don't remember it that way. I remember the ship starting out as just a slight bit bigger than the original E, but halfway through, the visual artists realized that a lot of the VFX shots ended up reinforcing the idea of a much larger ship. I don't think Abrams really cared how big the ship was, or if he did say something to that effect, he was probably just joking after the fact.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
As to director involvmen, it varies on the director- Nicholas Meyer did exactly as you say regarding the Reliant- just signed off on it , but with nacelles down instead of up, while Abrams, for example, was VERY hands-on with the look of the Cloverfield monster: I doubt he'd let such a big visual element of a movie just be whatever his art crew came up with...not that we have any idea who really designed that thing.
As to Sternach's Voyaher design, you're mistaken- his elegant design was much much different than the final version- he went so far as to make a model of the design, complete with tiny figures to show scale...
You can see where Sternbach would take some elements of this design and bring them into his Prometheus design. Really nothing like Voyager- and the first design sketches had this cool sail like part rising from the back of the ship, which was an energy absorber to suck in weapons fire, IIRC.
As to the size of the Cloverprise, I can see the VFX guys saying "we need a bigger ship to match the shuttlebay scene", but if taht's the case, they raelly did a halfass job scaling the ship up- windows and docking ports made for a 300 meter long ship just span like two and a half decks at the larger size and remain in the same Probert Refit configuration as the 300 meter ship has. docking ports also make zero sense, unless they're made for giant Zentradi crewmen.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I'm not saying that the upscaling made any sense...I actually hate the nuEnterprise design, but I hate even more that they upscaled it so much that now it's bigger than the Galaxy class. All I was saying was that I doubt that the size of the ship really mattered to Abrams.
And as for Sternbach's Voyager design: yes, I've already seen his study model, and while there are minor differences in the design (except for the nacelles and the oversized runabout pylons), to me it looks sufficiently similar in structure to the final design. However, I will say that I prefer his version to what we ended up with.
And as for the new dreadnought...I really just wish they weren't using John Eaves as a starship designer, alternate 23rd century or not. He's a nice guy, but I hate his ship designs.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yeah, I swear that Newton type has registry of NCC-071/B, even though its probably 0718, but that 1 looks funny.
I watched the movie yesterday and the number was not better to read as in the trailer. I don't think that there is a '/' in it. It is pretty clear even in the picture of the trailer that the line is more or less in parallel to the last digit (more like '|'. So I assume that it is NCC-0718. But the name of that ship is not readable.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Admiral Marcus had some starship models in his office: Dreadnought, Kelvin-type, NX-class, Phoenix and some rockets and airplanes.
I was disappointed that we didn't get one good shot of the dreadnought.
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
I noticed the ships on the desk as well. I wondered why the top secrete dreadnought ship was displayed on the desk in the open for everybody to see. And I wondered why the Kelvin class was on display and not the flagship of the fleet, the Enterprise. Did anybody noticed the regristry on the hull of Kelvin-class? Cool was the NX-01-Class (The Enterprise?).
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Right, so, let me say now, this will be a bit spoilerey. I wrote this on Saturday after seeing in Friday, but didn’t post it. In the end I figured why not. It’s ramblings about what I saw basically, with a few questions, comments and bits I liked and didn’t. Skip it if you haven’t seen it yet I guess, because it’s worth watching spoiler free. Although, why would you be here if that was your plan?
Background then: Lucy and I went to see it On Friday night. I was a bit worried about it but excited. I’ve tried to inflict Star Trek onto her and while she likes it, I wouldn’t call her a fan, if you see what I mean.
We liked the opening scene – good mix of action and humour. The natives were far more interesting than Spock in the volcano – after all they wouldn’t kill him off that early in the film, would they?
Enterprise worship? Nothing new here, fans have been doing that for years.
A super Alka Seltza ring? Really? Oh, apparently yes. Fine.
Nice to see Bruce Greenwood back. Pike seemed to be rocking the Elvis look, with the fat greying sideburns, the body suit and the big rings - all he needed was the glasses.
I really enjoyed the fanboy nods, such as using Section 31. Then, the attack on SFHQ happened and Pike, which was a little unexpected, but what was with Spock mind melding with him - bit intrusive? I dunno.
Admiral Marcus’ nice open plan office, with a weird policy of displaying models of classified dreadnaughts alongside older (presumably less classified) star ships. Maybe it’s a clever double bluff.
72 torpedoes, eh? (might be remembering this a bit early). Scotty quits! But why replace him with the lowest ranked officer Kirk can think of? Just asking.
At this point I will recant my reactions to the film at certain points. Despite having strived to remain spoiler free, it has been impossible to ignore all the rantings and ravings online, vis a vis John Harrison. So I get to the cinema thinking “Pease don’t be remake”. I watch the Spock scene in the volcano thinking “Uh oh, he’s talking about sacrifices and Kirk is cheating death”. The admiral is named Marcus (wincing uncomfortably). There are 72 torpedoes (Aww shit). I turn to Lucy and explain that I won’t be enjoying the film anymore. She gives me an elbow in the ribs. Fair enough.
Anyway, back to the film. The flying hamburger they are going to use is from “The Mudd Incident” – nice. They go to Qu’nos and are chased by D4s. Ok, that sorta works. Then they meet the Blingons! Was that make up or did the Klingon Captain have gold bits on his (less than pronounced) ridges? Also, don’t Klingons have phones? Why did they not call their mates to say “were getting the shit kicked out of us – come quick and bring really big guns”. Might be an honour thing, I dunno.
Right, so we get the big reveal – it’s halfway through the film, but ok. Now, to me this was left a little limp. What do I mean? Well, those with no prior will go “so what”. Those wh know a little will go “oh, ok”. Those who know a modest amount will go “oh, yeah, him”. Fans will go “NOOOOOOOOO! WHY? WHYYYYYY? GAH!” Perhaps I’m overeacting, but that was kind of how I felt. If it was a present to the fans, I’ll be swapping it at the store at the nearest opportunity.
Lucy also noted that in this context, the vengeance thing was just a bit stupid. It was personal because of who got killed, so it was a personal revenge. It was all about rash decisions and being in the wrong place. There was no build up, no wait and no “w-word”.
I also thought, despite being a good actor, Cumberbatch was wrong in this role. He was too lithe, too pale, too sneering. Or, as Lucy said “he’s no where near as buff as he should be”.
Hurumph.
All right, braced for the rest of it, the hollow feeling in my gut gradually dissipated and I just sat back and watched.
The sets were as stupid and big as before – though I did like the torpedoes and the launchers, which fitted a lot better that the six shooters from the old films. Except for where they looked like they were supposed to shoot from. Never mind.
I did enjoy watching the Enterprise getting beat up – lots of homage-ery there. A blown up warp nacelle, a huge scar cut into the side of the neck etc.
The Dreadnaught was a heroic mess of a ship. Liked the Section 31 vibe, but yet another uniform? Really? That makes how many? There’s the ship board uniform, the scuba suit, the red cadet uniform, the blue wool cadet uniform, the admirals uniform, the teachers uniform, the grey “barracks” uniform, the smart grey uniform with matching hat, the last one but in green, the grey jacket with coloured triangles, the Section 31 uniforms. 11 uniforms (just off the top of my head)? Can you really call them uniforms at this point if everyone is wearing something different?
And then came That Scene.
What can I say? Erm. Well, I thought it was awful. It was a ham fisted rehash but it also lacked any of the emotional resonance, especially since it wasn’t permanent, or even at the end of the film – that confused me. Also, Quinto, you ain’t no Shatner. It was a good try by switching things around, but it just didn’t do it for me. Lucy noticed and did say to me “I know, he didn’t even steal Scotty’s glove and try to mind meld with him”. She was there in my hour of need.
Oh, a note on the sets. I liked them a bit more this time. The brewery engineering was still there, but we saw the warp core. Well actually, we saw a high powered laser experiment, but it sort of fitted, I guess. The inside was bit Star Wars-y though – I was kind of expecting the millennium falcon to fly through and shoot it.
I, as a scientist, also enjoyed the “kick it to make it work” approach to dealing with broken delicate and highly sensitive equipment. To be fair, we do that all the time.
Oh, and why did the warp core need to be online for the rockets to work? Are those warp rockets? If I was building the Enterprise I'd have rockets that don’t need the warp core on just in case.
Um. The ending wrapped everything up nicely I suppose. I was confused as to why Uhura beamed down on her own, but I suppose they couldn’t find a red shirt who wanted to umpire that spat. The baddie can come back but everything is hunky dory. Alice Eve is on the bridge, so that does not necessarily eliminate certain future persons happening. They can make more films, leave it there, do a series or whatever. It’s a good place to be.
Lets see, the cast. Well Chris Pine is ok, but a bit wooden in places, B- maybe for him. Pegg was, well, Simon Pegg. Not old Scotty, but good with what he was given and I liked party Scotty, sneaky Scotty and naughty Scotty. I liked Spock in this actually, Quinto was really good. . Urban was probably the unsung casting hero here, although his accent did slip a bit at one point into something odd. His McCoy just about nails it, but really has been side-lined in these films. Yelchin was good in a red shirt, but didn’t really do much. Sulu did even less. Zoe Saldana is still not Uhura for me. She’s too whiney and lacks sassyness. Again, might be writing not casting, but she is my least favourite transition from old to new.
BC, as I said I think he was misplaced here, but did well with what they gave him. Alice Eve was ok but didn't have all that much to do - did JJ admit she was there simply to have a nice pair of boobs?
Overall, the film was a good flick. But, and it’s a big one, for a film that is trying hard to please it’s fans, most of whom it’s piggybacking from a 45 year old franchise, it kind of undoes itself. It harks back to the 2009 film and the older shows, sometimes very nicely (Section 31, Mudd etc – all small, brief references). It’s got action, big set pieces, dynamic characters, but ultimately it’s a bit untidy around the edges and it is ultimately predicated on ripping off what was (to most Star Trek fans) the best Star Trek film ever. It’s a big let down, it’s not as good as it was the first time around, and it makes me think that maybe it would be better to kill Star Trek here and now.
But at least no matter how bad it gets, we still can have our mantra: “It wasn’t as bad as Nemesis.” Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Also,
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
tribbles are back and they are bigger and juicier than ever. Bet you could make five steaks out of one of them. No little tennisball here.
Starfleet low-rank officers now wear Imperial Snub-Caps for dress occasions, very foreboding. At the Starfleet hearing I almost did a double-take. To me, the costumes and uniforms were all gorgeous and well-chosen throughout the movie (especially Peter Weller's "TMP" uniform), except for the dark grey Starship Troopers dress uniforms and the Death Star caps. I really liked the Zero-G outfits and sensible helmets, best in Trek so far, especially compared to the spacewalk stuff in Voyager.
The Dreadnought Class "Vengeance" had three things going for her:
1:, the two spherical weapons clusters under the deflector were boss as fuck, used to great advantage. Exactly the right width and length of the phaser-volleys too (maybe a bit knifier), and red, like in TWOK.
2:, the reason for the hole in the saucer was explained, it held a massive, downwards-expanding gun platform. Made me think of three-nacelled 1701-D.
3:, The Vengeance made the Enterprise look like a small and nimble pearly-white frigate. She finally looked the part, like the bobbing and weaving thing seen in The Undiscovered Country. I kinda wish they would've thrown a nebula in there too. And they should've made the Vengeance slick gunmetal grey, would've made her look like a DeLorean battleship, completing the 80's lovefest circle in a stylish way.
I'm not crazy about Zoe Zaldana, but my opinion of her style is opposite from Ginger's, I think she had way too much frowny, scolding attitude in the first movie, while Nichelle Nichols was a glittering little happy flower most of the time (until TWOK, where she got cooler). In this movie she did get a bit passive-aggressive, but at least not as insubordinate as the last movie. I never saw her do this in any of the Klingon scenes, though, was this in the movie? If so, I never caught it.
I liked that Spock got subtly bothered by Alice Eve's presence, implying (more or less) that the ship was too small for "two" bridge science officers. Using only perfectly logical tone, of course.
I enjoyed seeing the new alien crew members. The cartographer or whatever he was seemed to be a Bynar, for lack of a better guess. Their first showing in TNG wasn't a "first contact" meeting, was it? They'd already established diplomatic connections by then?
Those torpedoes looked appropriately 1982-ish, I thought. I liked the exhaust nozzles.
I don't think Michael Giacchino has enough balls to be Trek music composer. Not that Jerry Goldsmith ever bit the heads off of bats or anything, but James Horner's pomp was sorely missed here, I thought. Sure, he uses the same Horn-blasts in Avatar, Aliens and TWOK, but damnit it works for me. I wonder if he says "You just got Hornered" when submitting his final drafts.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Nim - Bynars were members of the Federation by the time of 1100101, but important to remember that the Abrams timeline apparently has a lot of information on the world of the "prime" timeline up to the mid-to-late 24th century, so maybe they were actively sought out?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
True. He did seem tall for a Bynar, though, and he spoke with english syntax, so maybe an alternative Bynar or just a very augmented humanoid of some other species. He had a neat shunt in the back of his head.
I don't think it was ever made clear if the Bynars had naturally evolved binary thought processes or if they had voluntarily gone to stage 5 of 10 on the way to Borgness, through the use of implants.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I saw the film yesterday. I'm all over the place. There were bits I liked, and there were bits I despised. I thought the movie demonstrated some lazy writing, and I thought there was a chance to do something completely different with Khan: make him a hero. I think that would've made STID both a compelling film and one that will not be compared to Star Trek II -- and then, always, always, only in a negative light.
One thing I really enjoyed was that atrium corridor set. It really had the feel of some of Probert's ideas for the interior of the -D.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I saw the movie this afternoon. I liked it more than the first film, maybe because it didn't need a tie-in comic to make plot more sense. In fact, I think the tie-in comic had very little to do with this movie. But I digress:
Nibiru scene - Meh. The natives draw an image of the Big E's top side, even though the only got a good look at its front and bottom. If Spock didn't like Kirk's violation of the Prime Directive, why did he go along with mission and even volunteer for the most dangerous part?
So in the event of an attack all high-level Starfleet Officers are to meet in the poorly guarded Starfleet HQ. They're at the same level of intelligence as the Jedi Council.
So Praxis has already exploded? The "D4 class" Bird of Prey - its the Klingon equivalent of a VTOL Osprey. I wanted to hate this design, but considering its purpose as a patrol vessel its one of the more sensible ship designs in the reboot universe.
Lots of civilian vehicles on Earth, and shuttles seen throughout the film. I think they reused the Kelvin shuttle design. The troop transport from the last film appears to have been redesigned, its fold out wings are longer in length, and folds out at a much steeper angle than before. There's also a variant for hauling cargo, seen at the Vengeance's drydock. Aside from the Vengeance, no new Starfleet designs, but the Newton-type and Armstrong-type do make brief appearances.
So yeah, Kahn. He was ultimately the d-bag we know and love. But were those crocodile tears he shed in the brig? Magic blood- I don't know. I mean if Kahn had rapid regenerative abilities, it would come in handy in The Wrath of Kahn, where he's all effed up after the Enterprise severely damages the Reliant. Also his jump from the crashed Vengeance seemed implausible.
He doesn't die, which leaves open the possibility he could come back. If they don't bring him back, whoever is the next villain has tough act to follow. It would have been nice to see the Botany Bay.
The reverse Kirk and Spock TWOK scene; my initiate reaction was, "Oh no, please don't do this". Then it changed to, "Well at least he didn't die from falling of a bridge, and then the bridge falling on him." But then I remembered Lazarus tribble and Kahn's blood, and another reset button was born.
I apologize for the stream-of-conscience writing, there's a lot to digest here, and its not nearly as a non-nonsensical as the last film.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So a covert ship design is the largest ship ever? That's a bit like painting an Iowa class battleship black and assigning it for stealth missions... As to the fanboy nods...I wonder if that's in reaction to the negative views many of the hardcore Trek fans had regarding the 2009 movie?
Praxis is already gone...um...taht seals the whole "completely alternate universe" theory for me- i's one thing to rationalize stuff like early bynar contact due to Spock breaking Temporal Prime Directive, but the Klingons would not have been so impacted by that as to exhaust their...ozone...layer... Fuck it- nothing of what spock says in SYVI made shit for sense anyway.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well - we don't know that it was Praxis. Conceivably, it could have been a different moon.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The Vengeance was built covertly, it was never intended to be used covertly. It was planned to ride on the coat-tails of a massive long-range ballistic attack on the Klingons. Have you seen the movie, Jason?
The Vengeance was designed to obliterate any and all opponents posing a real or imagined threat to Earth, through sheer firepower and armor. The dark hull is likely an early stab at ablative armor, probable since the torpedo volley on it didn't explode the entire ship, as they would have any other ship. It's the first purpose-built starship since the Defiant, actually.
About the cyborg bridge officer: since the Bynars were pint-sized, genderless, vocal cord-free munchkins, I'm not sure this 6-foot computer-syntax-talking man is one, although he was an albino. Hopefully some more info will surface eventually.
Regarding the original Praxis disaster, it was a catastrophic mining explosion concerning oxygen, it very definitely could have happened at any time in Klingon history, especially after the Nero incident, in which the Klingons were directly involved. Losing a chunk of their fleet to the Narada, combined with the premature mobilization and growth of the Federation fleet should've put enormous pressure on both the Romulans and the Klingons to match their defense budget, leading to increased demand on resources all across the board, including Praxis, and kaboom.
The new Klingons seen in the movie seem decidedly xenophobic and cruel, as the new balance of power would suggest. Sure, there hasn't been a Khitomer accord yet so they have no reason to be cordial with humans, but still, gutting a human female instead of taking prisoners for interrogation, very low.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I could totally buy Praxis exploding early after the Narada incident. Heck, the Narada might have blown up Praxis for all we know. Either way, the blown up moon would explain why a heavily industrialized area of Qo'noS would be abandoned.
I thought that might have been the most Star Trek-like Star Trek movie in a long time. People striving to be better, and win out over their darker impulses, while throwing an intensely modern allegory at us? Very satisfying. Very Star Trek.
I'm glad they addressed the ramifications (and flaws) from the first film. Kirk losing the ship because he wasn't ready for it, and actually earning the chair, was a great choice of arc. He needed to face the no-win scenario, because he cheated the first time. Starfleet finding Khan and his crew for use as weapons is totally believable, as is the entire special-weapons development program in response to the Narada attack. The continued existence of trans-warp beaming is a nice note, glad that massive technical advance wasn't ignored. And I enjoyed most of the repeated notes from earlier movies, including Kirk's death, Scotty stopping the supership sent after Enterprise, defeating Khan "at great cost", Sulu in command, and Carol Marcus being involved in the development of advanced torpedoes. And the start of the five-year mission was a nice way to end it.
There were some plotholes, though. "Oh, Khan beamed to the Klingon homeworld. Better chase him in a ship and fire torpedoes at him." Uh... why not just use transwarp beaming and follow him? Or even better, beam the torpedoes to his location? Some slight comment that only Section 31 had that, and he took out the tech when he destroyed their base, would have been nice. (And possibly eliminated trans-warp beaming as a concept from future movies. It's really too powerful.) Further, I was expecting more damage from those torpedoes. I mean, they were special uber-weapon torpedoes, right? And 72 detonating inside the Vengance still left the ship partly operational? And I'm confused as to exactly what he took OUT of the torpedoes to make room for cryotubes. Obviously not explosives. I guess if Kirk had actually tried to launch the torpedoes, they would have just... sat there. And when Khan blackmailed that guy in the beginning to blow up Section 31, what hold did he have over him at that point? I mean, the man's daughter was cured. Why would he still go through with being a suicide bomber? Oh, and McCoy's plan to save Kirk. "We have to have Khan's blood! Get be a cryo-tube, and take that other augment out of it! He totally doesn't have blood we can use!" (One place where three seconds of technobabble might actually have been appreciated.)
I also thought the action was overdone in places. Kirk and Scotty trying to get to engineering went on too long. Avoiding the debris field went on too long. The action on Qo'noS (can they please SPELL IT RIGHT?) went on too long. Spock chasing down Khan was over-the-top. (Spock screaming "KHAAAAAN!" was over the top too, but I can almost forgive it. The writers are only human, and that would almost be impossible to resist.) And Carol Marcus in her underwear was just gratuitous. There were numerous occasions when I wanted the action to end so we could get on with the story.
Overall, I enjoyed it. I'd've enjoyed it more with a tighter edit.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Oh, and I might have enjoyed it more of Khan had been a little less evil at the end. Not "Give me my people so we can TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!" But "Give me my people and we'll go live quietly on an island somewhere." The same events could have played out from there, but with more nuance. Kirk stunning Khan, then Spock blowing up the Vengeance, when Khan may honestly have wanted to live in peace? (Or does he?) That would have been a twist.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Omega - I had the same thought: sure, Khan's by nature a bad guy, but in Space Seed, he and Kirk didn't exactly part ways as enemies ... if Ceti Alpha VI hadn't exploded, and Admiral Kirk had returned, they could've even been friends (maybe). It would've been a bold thing to bring Khan back and re-imagine him as ... not a friend, necessarily, but also not an enemy. B
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I was also curious: just what was Khan doing on Qo'noS? Did he have further plans? Or was he just going to live there until the Klingons found him and he got killed?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Maybe Khan thought the Federation wouldn't pursue him there? Or he hoped that the Federation would, provoke a war in doing so, and get their asses kicked by the Klingon Imperial Empire (remains a stupid name).
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
As to the yield on torpedos, that has always been a sore spot for me- in TWOK (the original one )Torpedos really dont do shit by way of yield- certainly far below the range of even early nukes...but as always, such things are driven more by Plot than sense... Possibly the space the cryo tubes occupied was the toepedo's shield generator?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I wondered if perhaps Spock beamed 72 normal photorps into the Vengeance, but I seem to remember that the torpedoes seen materializing in the Vengeance bay looked like the cone-shaped long range torps that had the cryo-tubes. Not that we've seen a standard photorp up close in this era, but when the crew first got a look at the advanced torpedoes, they seemed to react as if the shell design was unconventional.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I have a theory about Chekov's age discrepency.
This theory requires that we accept that the characters as seen in the Alternate universe (Abrams) are the same people as in the Prime universe. I.E., Pine's Kirk, and Shatner's Kirk, are genetically the same individual, minus the differences they've experienced in their lives.
...with the exception of Chekov, who I believe indicated he had no siblings, and also was 22 in 2266, making him like, 12, in the Abrams films.
So here's my theory: Anton Chekov and Koenig Chekov are both the products of the same parents, however, for whatever reason, Chekov's parents in the alternate universe decided to have children earlier than they did in the Prime universe. Anton's Chekov would be the older brother to Koenig's Chekov.
I think this is reasonable.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Oh - and the archive is the "Kelvin Memorial Archive." The explosions definitely reached above ground, so Khan probably wound up killing more than just Starfleet personnel. Also, I don't believe Khan is ever explicitly referred to as a terrorist.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: As to the yield on torpedos, that has always been a sore spot for me- in TWOK (the original one )Torpedos really dont do shit by way of yield- certainly far below the range of even early nukes...but as always, such things are driven more by Plot than sense... Possibly the space the cryo tubes occupied was the toepedo's shield generator?
I don't think there was anything special about the torpedoes, I think they were standard issue. Admiral Marcus was probably lying to Kirk.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Just learned that it was quite appropriate that Chekov was off the bridge during the duration of the movie. Chekov wasn't on the bridge in Space Seed. Koenig once joked that he was down in Engineering during the duration of that episode, which is what he ended up doing in the movie. Intentional homage or not, it is a nice touch!
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
...did Chekov ever see Khan in this one? I don't recall him doing so...
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Mars -
"Nibiru scene - Meh. The natives draw an image of the Big E's top side, even though the only got a good look at its front and bottom."
Actually, this is incorrect (saw it again today and made sure to take a careful look at the image): they are drawing the underside of the Enterprise. The engineering hull clearly continues through underneath the saucer on their dirt illustration; however, the cameras focuses on the drawing and fades to the Enterprise about to jump to warp, and does so from an overhead POV.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Omega: yes, from a distance? At least he was on the bridge of the Enterprise when Sulu observed that Khan had jumped 30 meters.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Seen it twice now. Liked it more the second time. I think for the first viewing, I was distracted by "OK so homage is different than cutting and pasting bits of the script." But when I set that aside for a second viewing it does work. And for folks who haven't watched the other films obsessively committing broad swaths of dialogue to memory, it works for them. They like it. They respond and it works.
I like the Cumberbatch. I enjoyed the turns though you could see them coming a mile off. Just a pretty, pretty thing. Maybe not have been the purest trek, but very enjoyable.
IMAX 3D may have to wait for next weekend, but I am excited to see it that way too.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
The more I think about it, the more I think this is actually two movies shoved together. There's a really good Trek movie in here, possibly one of the best. There's also an action blockbuster with mediocre writing and plotting.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
It also feels like a composite of The Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country.
Someone at Trekmovie pointed out that in the dialogue, its mentioned that Khan and the Augments are from 300 years ago. If the movies take place in the 2250s, that means Khan and the Augments were frozen in the 1950s.
Also, the Big-E is slightly changed after being repaired.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
She sure is, I noticed the larger impulse-exhaust immediately. Didn't notice the nacelles. I hope they release other angles of the refit soon.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Just seen it, and I enjoyed it, but I would have enjoyed it more if it wasn't going "See, it's like The Wrath of Kahn, BUT REVERSED!" in my face.
(Plus, I do try not to guess what's going to happen in a film, but seriously, "I'm injecting Kahn's blood into this Tribble for some reason." "Interesting, I'm sure that will become relevent later, somehow. Oh, hello Pavel, what are you doing?" "Me? I'm just resting my gun on this table. Pay it no attention.")
Also, and this is often forgotten, when Kirk screams "KAAAAAHHHNHNN" in TWOK, it's not Shatner overacting, it's Kirk. He's playing along with the whole "I am now trapped on this asteroid" thing so that Kahn doesn't realise that the Enterprise isn't as damamged as he thinks it is. Changing that to Spock shouting "KAAAAAAHHHHNNN" just didn't work for me. The moment we went from that to Kahn trying to ram Starfleet HQ I started to enjoy the film much more, because it was new!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Also, the women were treated appallingly in this film. Uhura may be sassy, but she's now "Main Character's boyfriend". Carol Marcus was there to be "Bad guy's Daughter To Create Emotional Dilema" and also "Girl Who Takes Her Clothes Off For Some Reason". And I gave the miniskirts in the original a pass because they were being all 60s Trek, but they really are stupid as a uniform design, something that I felt was highlighted when Uruha beamed on top of the flying car and her dress magically stayed decent.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yeah, I swear that Newton type has registry of NCC-071/B, even though its probably 0718, but that 1 looks funny.
I watched the movie yesterday and the number was not better to read as in the trailer. I don't think that there is a '/' in it. It is pretty clear even in the picture of the trailer that the line is more or less in parallel to the last digit (more like '|'. So I assume that it is NCC-0718. But the name of that ship is not readable.
Since the android/cyborg crewmember is referred to in the credits as "Science Officer 0718," that's probably the registry of the ship too. It's probably named after one of Abrams's relatives, since the Kelvin was named after his grandfather.
quote:Originally posted by o2: I noticed the ships on the desk as well. I wondered why the top secrete dreadnought ship was displayed on the desk in the open for everybody to see. And I wondered why the Kelvin class was on display and not the flagship of the fleet, the Enterprise. Did anybody noticed the regristry on the hull of Kelvin-class? Cool was the NX-01-Class (The Enterprise?).
quote:Originally posted by Nim: She sure is, I noticed the larger impulse-exhaust immediately. Didn't notice the nacelles. I hope they release other angles of the refit soon.
I'm kinda wondering why they made these minuscule changes at all. If you're going to refit the ship after it's been pummeled to hell, shouldn't it have looked very different?
Also, my keen eye made out some interesting things during the space dock scene before the Enterprise warps away. I noticed both a Newton type ship but with different nacelles (not the NCC-0718, which had regular ones), and a red Armstrong type ship.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Nice link. I have to say the Vengeance is growing on me, the side view isn't half-bad. The neck and rump reminds me of the Galaxy class, but with angular nacelle pylons.
One thing that bothered me with the showdown with Admiral Marcus/Khan is that they are having a gun battle in earth orbit and neither Starfleet, Spacedock nor the lunar colonies seem to mind. I tried to imagine Marcus had fixed it with some pre-made orders for his mission, but the Vengeance is a black ops Section 31 project, if it shows up on the Federation's doorstep firing at a fellow starship, shouldn't someone investigate?
Super battleship with a super warp core, imagine if that had breached when it crashed in San Francisco, would've taken the whole town with it. Khan really dropped the ball there, trying to destroy HQ with just the kinetic force of the ship instead of a core meltdown.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I didn't mind that. Plenty of Star Trek films have done the whole "The Enterprise is the only ship in range/near Earth" thing, and we even have the excuse that Marcus could order some of the fleet away on training or some other excuse. Maybe there were some ships on the way and they just didn't get there in time.
Is it me, or does "warp" work differently in this universe? Unless there was a time-skip in the movie, the Enterprise managed to get from Klingon space to near-Earth orbit in about two minutes. And what was with Kirk's "we're at warp. They can't get to us at warp" line about? Ships have always been able to fight each other at warp. Or is warp now hyperspace?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
More likely, Kirk thought that the Enterprise was the fastest ship in Starfleet, so that if she got the lead off the jumping block, she couldn't be caught.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:And what was with Kirk's "we're at warp. They can't get to us at warp" line about
It always worked in Star Wars. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: More likely, Kirk thought that the Enterprise was the fastest ship in Starfleet, so that if she got the lead off the jumping block, she couldn't be caught.
That's a frankly ridiculous assumption to make when the ship that is following them is twice the size, has Super Awesome Guns and is of a design that has never been seen. I don't think that Kirk is that stupid.
I'm agreeing with Omega overall. There's good stuff in there. There's also stupid Hollywood lowest common denominator stuff. This was true of the first film as well (let's fire Kirk off the ship towards a planet that just happens to have Old Spock and a guy who has invented Extreme Distance Transporting), but they were more grating this time around. It isn't even a case of fridge logic. A lot of the issues were relevent as I was watching.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well I get the impression that what is called Warp in this verse would be called Quantum Slipstream or Transwarp in the Prime Universe. That's the only way we can justify the short trips between far-flung areas. Warp speed travel in this universe doesn't even remotely look like warp travel in other Star Trek film or show.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I agree. I think it's also a small but pointed example of the "everything now no pauses action action action" mentality of this universe.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I thought they were just useing NUBSG FTL drives now instead of Warp.... Hmmm...I wonder if Star Wars will get even more crazy fast now...and of course, larger.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:I don’t know. I think it’s nice that in this day and age, a white male can still be cast as an Indian played by a Mexican. White men really have come a long way!
Posted by o2 (Member # 907) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:Originally posted by o2:
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Yeah, I swear that Newton type has registry of NCC-071/B, even though its probably 0718, but that 1 looks funny.
I watched the movie yesterday and the number was not better to read as in the trailer. I don't think that there is a '/' in it. It is pretty clear even in the picture of the trailer that the line is more or less in parallel to the last digit (more like '|'. So I assume that it is NCC-0718. But the name of that ship is not readable.
Since the android/cyborg crewmember is referred to in the credits as "Science Officer 0718," that's probably the registry of the ship too. It's probably named after one of Abrams's relatives, since the Kelvin was named after his grandfather.
quote:Originally posted by o2: I noticed the ships on the desk as well. I wondered why the top secrete dreadnought ship was displayed on the desk in the open for everybody to see. And I wondered why the Kelvin class was on display and not the flagship of the fleet, the Enterprise. Did anybody noticed the regristry on the hull of Kelvin-class? Cool was the NX-01-Class (The Enterprise?).
The gallary of prob ships is great, but I can't recall seeing the V2 Rocket. I would even consider this as very bad taate of the set decorator/of the director to display such an instrument of mass destruction in this line of ships! On the other hand, there is at least one model in the movie that was not on that page: A model of the Ares V launch vehicle (in our world this has been replaced in the meantime by the Space Launch System).
Regaring that 'red' ship: I haven't seen it myself in the movie (or on any other picture available to me) but I had to think of the the book 'Star Trek: The Art of the Film' (page 59) where you can find a picture of a red Armstrong-type ship, the USS Excelisor.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
"Well I get the impression that what is called Warp in this verse would be called Quantum Slipstream or Transwarp in the Prime Universe. That's the only way we can justify the short trips between far-flung areas. Warp speed travel in this universe doesn't even remotely look like warp travel in other Star Trek film or show."
I dunno ... the warp effect of the TOS movies (the rainbow effect) doesn't look like it did in TOS or TNG/DS9/VOY, but we all think that's "our" warp; and was the trip from the border of the Klingon Neutral Zone to Earth really take any longer than the trip from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in First Contact?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by o2: The gallary of prob ships is great, but I can't recall seeing the V2 Rocket. I would even consider this as very bad taate of the set decorator/of the director to display such an instrument of mass destruction in this line of ships!
The V-2 was the first manmade object ever to escape Earth's atmosphere and enter space, and was the forerunner of all modern rockets. And of course, Marcus' prized Vengeance is an instrument of even greater mass destruction.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Sweet! I think I'll order the ring ship and the Phoenix.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Mim:
quote:The V-2 was the first manmade object ever to escape Earth's atmosphere and enter space, and was the forerunner of all modern rockets.
Yes. A pity studious Marcus didn't also have a model of the first mass-produced compact military car, the Kübelwagen. And perhaps also a commemorative minireplica of the first successful true Submachinegun, the MP40? Think that might brighten up his desk there.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Found something else regarding "Star Trek Into Darkness".
Also, does the color scheme of their bridge during Red Alert remind anyone of anything?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: I dunno ... the warp effect of the TOS movies (the rainbow effect) doesn't look like it did in TOS or TNG/DS9/VOY, but we all think that's "our" warp; and was the trip from the border of the Klingon Neutral Zone to Earth really take any longer than the trip from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in First Contact?
True, but you can fudge that one a bit. Although I can't remember... had the battle already started before the Enterprise-E headed for Earth?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Mim:
quote:The V-2 was the first manmade object ever to escape Earth's atmosphere and enter space, and was the forerunner of all modern rockets.
Yes. A pity studious Marcus didn't also have a model of the first mass-produced compact military car, the Kübelwagen. And perhaps also a commemorative minireplica of the first successful true Submachinegun, the MP40? Think that might brighten up his desk there.
Well, uh, neither of those things had anything whatsoever to do with the history of flight or space travel. The V-2 rocket was a hugely significant technological milestone on that front, and directly led to the rockets used to take humans into space. To not understand why it's there is pretty obtuse IMO.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Well, the MP40 might have been used to keep the slave labor camps in line...the ones Von Braun had making those V2 rockets. No was to link the car in without going all "Kevin Bacon Game" on it.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by o2:
Regarding that 'red' ship: I haven't seen it myself in the movie (or on any other picture available to me) but I had to think of the the book 'Star Trek: The Art of the Film' (page 59) where you can find a picture of a red Armstrong-type ship, the USS Excelsior.
It's probably the Excelsior. They might have made the model for the first movie but didn't use it until this one.
Cool, I haven't noticed that ship before in this shot. Your assumption sounds reasonable, but we can never be sure since the ship is to far away for identification...
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat:
Also, I was wrong about the Newton-type with new nacelles. The nacelles are the same, they just glow blue now instead of the original red.
Where is this 'red' comming from? I found no reference of red glowing bussard collectors in any picutre of the first Star Trek movie. Indeed there is no other good picture of a Newton-type ship from that angle available. Mayby the bussard colectors are supposed to be blue? By the way, I think this ship is the NCC-0718 as well. The only other ship (also a Newton-tpye) was not docked to the space station when the Enterprise departed.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by o2:
Where is this 'red' comming from? I found no reference of red glowing bussard collectors in any picutre of the first Star Trek movie.
The Kelvin's Bussard is glowing red in this promotional picture from the last movie. I don't remember whether it glowed red in the film.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam:
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: I dunno ... the warp effect of the TOS movies (the rainbow effect) doesn't look like it did in TOS or TNG/DS9/VOY, but we all think that's "our" warp; and was the trip from the border of the Klingon Neutral Zone to Earth really take any longer than the trip from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in First Contact?
True, but you can fudge that one a bit. Although I can't remember... had the battle already started before the Enterprise-E headed for Earth?
Yes, the battle was going poorly, that's why they left their station
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
waiting for RLM's review was so worth it
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Isn´t that image by Tobias Richter, a gifted Cgi-artist, but not actually involved in special effects for the movie? That might explain the mistakenly red colour?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
No, that image was from an official Paramount promotional poster. Richter's CGI models of the Kelvin and her kitbashes had a yellow glow from the collectors.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Y'know -- one thing that COULD explain the Enterprise's speed --
What if Scotty, post-Relics, somehow figured out how to make transwarp speed & transport possible? Then, when Spock gave Scotty his own transwarp equation in Star Trek 2009, alternate Scotty & Starfleet were able to reverse engineer a transwarp engine out of it?
Just speculating.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
My problem with it is that it's TOO advanced. It should shake up the universe way more than we've seen. The Genesis Device in TWOK was also like that, but it was then shown to be unusable in TSFS (if you assume that the problems were insummoutable, and maybe the Federation agreed not to carry on developing itto appease the Klingons).
Super-fast transporters that can beam you from one homeworld to another, and that can also possibly make warp drive several billion times faster than we've seen before? That's too much.
We can take the First Contact scene as a mistake, somehow. The Enterprise-E is not supposed to be that fast. But it seems that the new Enterprise IS supposed to be that fast.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Um, they never say or show that it took ten minutes to Kronos, it's not like you saw topped-off Latte glasses descending to bottom slurp within the span of the transitional scenes.
If anything, blame the music composer who stayed with the same background mull from Earth to Kronos, making the span feel short (can't remember if this was the case but I assume so).
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I got the impression the Enterprise jumped to warp, the Vengence followed and then immediately shot them down. Otherwise they were at warp for days, and the Vengeance only attacked after they'd reached Earth ans Kirk had his "they can't get us at warp" speech.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Oh, I thought we were talking about the pre-Khan earth-kronos journey. I don't recall the details of the scene you mean.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
So isn't Qo'noS established as being only 4 or so days away from Earth in Enterprise's pilot? This also seems ridiculously close to me and I was bothered by the speed with which JJ-prise arrived at and retreated from what was (at least) called the edge of Klingon space.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Yeah, when it comes to "warp is way the hell too fast", that ship (ha) sailed long ago. Defiant was easily able to get back to Earth from the boondocks in little time, E-nil and E-A were able to cross most of the galaxy in little time, as was NX-01. If anything, the slower warp speeds evidenced by Voyager are the anomaly.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I dunno. I can ignore Star Trek V as saying that "God" is allowing them somehow. And I've always thought the "warp eddies" theory where there are some parts of space where warp is much faster was a nice way around the varying speed issues.
And I never had an issue with the 4 days from Earth to Qo'noS in Enterprise. But the impression that it only takes 5 minutes? That's a bit too much.
(My excuse for First Contact is that I never noticed it. I can't really explain that either.)
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I do think there's some time mismatches in First Contact... Data starts to say they could be to the fleet assembly point in three hours. However, it was specifically stated that the fleet was meeting in the Typhon sector, AWAY from Earth, relatively near the border of the Federation. That strongly suggests a running battle from where they first met the Borg all the way to Earth. How much time that takes is up for debate, but it makes sense to me.
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