I don't know if I should be grateful or angry, if I should laugh or cry, but Braga doesn't even seem to know what continuity is (if the BoP is his only concern).
So what? The Klingons had ships they called "birds of prey" long before TOS Movies. Wow.
Regarding this example in particular, what is it about Klingons having a bird-of-prey in 2151 that goes against canon, anyway? The only type of ship referred to as a bird-of-prey was operated by Klingons, so it's not unreasonable to assume they operated them in the past. If Braga is referring to the notion that the Romulans gave the Klingons that ship during the original series alliance, that was never stated anywhere, so there's not really a problem. The Romulan "bird-of-prey" was never even called such on screen; novels, for instance, called it a "warbird" for decades.
And as one final note, the script uses the word "warbird" rather than "bird-of-prey." Either way, there's no canon violation because there has never been a reference to when either term came into use.
[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
In any case, we finally get an episode ordering nailed down which matches what "Morpheus," a tipster @ TrekBBS, has been saying.
# / Title / Writer / Director
----------------------------
721 (01 & 02) / Broken Bow / Berman & Braga / Conway
03 / Fight or Flight / Berman & Braga / ???
04 / Strange New World / ??? / Livingston
05 / Unexpected / Berman & Braga / ???
06 / Terra Nova / ??? / Burton
07 / The Andorian Incident / ??? / Dawson
08 / Breaking the Ice / ??? / ???
09 / Civilization / ??? / Vejar
I'd get a life actually.
Klingons got that ship design from the Romulans along with their cloaking technology, and through that same transfer the Rommies got their D-7 battlecruisers. That has long been the official story.
Even if something doesn't directly run against canon, I'm getting pretty f*ckin' tired of the officials changing their story. It makes life ever so much more difficult for us.
-MMoM
P.S.
BTW, Psy, you are a FRIGGING STAND-UP COMEDIAN! 
a/ didn't contradict anything, and
b/ was a misquote anyway,
made me think that there's over-reaction, and then there's wanting to rant and scream at the world because someone doesn't say UESPA.
"Klingons got that ship design from the Romulans along with their cloaking technology, and through that same transfer the Rommies got their D-7 battlecruisers. That has long been the official story."
No, that has long been Okuda (and the others) hypothetical version of what might have happened, that could be easily changed if a story demands it.
"The Andorians were probably the silliest looking aliens in Star Trek."
I think we now have irrefuteable proof that Braga hasn't watched nearly enough Trek, especially the early stuff.
I do have one objection to Klingons using warbirds or birds-of-prey or anything even remotely ornithoid. Avian patterns painted on starships were the primary identifying feature of the Romulan race - in fact, basically the *only* such feature known by the 2260s. Having Klingons share this attribute is certainly reasonable and plausible (every flyboy out there ought to have a bird fetish, just as Siegfried says), yet it makes one wonder about the 2260s attitudes towards bird-patterned ships.
Romulans were enemies, Klingons were enemies. Romulans flew birdships, Klingons flew birdships. One would assume that the Earthlings would count two plus two together, and openly suspect the Klingons of having fought the Romulan war, of *being* the Romulans.
Timo Saloniemi
quote:
Having the same ship design, the same bridge layout, the same technology, the same kind of stories as in the other series, but different planets and aliens of the week is what will really ruin continuity.
Funny, I thought that continuity was all about making reference back to previous incarnations of Trek and building the impression that it was all part of one multi-dimensional universe. Silly me.
And BTW, Psy, Okuda's story is also the official story of Paramount.
Or didyou miss the part of the chronology which says "a lot of this is hypothetical. It's not meant to force the writers into saying "Kirk had a second five year mission after St:TMP. It's to say "Kirk PROBABLY had a second five year misson after TMP, but if a future episode shows he spent 5 years on a farm milking giant cows, then that's what he did."
Basically, by comparison, the Andorians aren't all that silly.
I wish Westmore was willing to be a little more un-tradional (by TNG standards) in presenting aliens that are not alien simply because of a forehead appliance.
When IS the last time we got to see someone with different color skin? or based of an animal? with fur? It got to its all time bad when late TNG and VGR aliens started to simply have rather fantastic ways of curling their hair (Kazons, etc.. there were way too many wigs and b.s. like that)
On the subject of the bird-ship problem, Humans today have many plane designs that are named after birds. Its probably a common theme on many worlds to call things that fly birds. It doesnt mean were going to call our starships birds, but we might.. or we might not for a while and then start doing just that, so maybe the klingons can, wil stop, and then start again when they buy some really bird-like ships
By the way, to pick up a thread from much earlier about TOS alien makeup, the Tellarites WERE redesigned (quite well too.. for The Voyage Home in the council chamber) and Nara in 'The Eye of the Beholder' looked nothing like any tellarite, she didnt have deep eyes or a porcine nose, her nose was bi-furcated into slits and the appliance continued about her face in a really non-Tellarite fashion. Simply put, Tellarite noses stick out far, and hers was designed to be flat on her face. A complete opposite when you think about it.
[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
quote:
Having the same ship design, the same bridge layout, the same technology, the same kind of stories as in the other series, but different planets and aliens of the week is what will really ruin continuity.
Same ship design: I am still of the opinion that NX-01 is a good compromise between continuity, fanboy-appeal and a new main ship for a new science-fiction series. And I also believe that it looks different enough.
Same bridge layout: What else? A bridge is a bridge is a bridge.. The center of storytelling.
And BTW, I REALLY like the new sets. WOW! The atmosphere of this new ship is great!
Aliens and Planets of the Week: OK, but TOS and TNG also had aliens and ships of the week. Only VGR made some weird episodes, but that was mainly because the producers were very conservative on this series, and the Delta Quadrant was just simple a not-so-interesting place for us Trekkers. Who cares what the hell happens in the other half of the galaxy?
quote:
I wish Westmore was willing to be a little more un-tradional (by TNG
standards) in presenting aliens that are not alien simply because of a
forehead appliance.
Sure, they could do that, and blow most of the episode budget on make-up costs. You have to make some compromises somewhere. (But I don't have to like it, either.)
quote:
"Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon Designs"
I don't remember that. What's it from?
quote:
Same ship design: I am still of the opinion that NX-01 is a good compromise between continuity, fanboy-appeal and a new main ship for a new science-fiction series. And I also believe that it looks different enough.
I won't argue that the Pre-E isn't cool looking. And it isn't so anachronistic (read that as TNGish if you don't believe its anachronistic) that it really ruins my appreciation of it. But I still was kind of looking forward to something completely different (probably because of early rumors that Eaves was working on some nacelless thing). Perhaps a ship barely recognizable as part of the same lineage as later Fed ships.
quote:
I wish Westmore was willing to be a little more un-traditional (by TNG standards) in presenting aliens that are not alien simply because of a forehead appliance.
Me too. Westmore sure loves them forehead ridges.
quote:
Sure, they could do that, and blow most of the episode budget on make-up costs. You have to make some compromises somewhere.
I doubt that some nicely applied facepaint (ala Farscape) costs more than the little rubber prosthetics that they have to have molded for the ridge of the week. Of course really elaborate make up (more along the lines of detailed masks and such) look the best and are very expensive. But I am pretty sure that the same amount of money used for the "head bones" could be used to do something else interesting (and more importantly, a little different).
I give westmore credit for trying a lot more 'ears and spots instead of foreheads' over the last few series. the ocampa and the trill both achieved good alien effect by a minor change in their appearance, but a major change in their being (i.e. living only 7 years or living with a symbiote)
kind of how spock only had the ears, but was alien to us because of his mind and behaviour.
And they painted him yellow every week anyway.
The only thing i dont lik is the wig problem.. we should start a tally of aliens who were alien because they decided to wear their hair in a funny manner.
but these are the writer's problems, not creating interesting aliens, not westmore's for being able to take the script and it says (alien guy) and figure out a way to make him interesting. Maybe they should RE-USE an alien species instead of throwing it away. Nah.. to easy
quote:
I don't remember that. What's it from?
"The Enterprise Incident".
Interestingly enough, that was the first appearance of the Klingon battle cruiser, so we saw the Romulans flying it before we saw the Klingons.
As to why, production wise, they used it, there are two theories.
1/ They'd jsut spent a lot of money building this Klingon ship, and wanted to show it off.
2/ Someone dropped the Romulan BOP model.
Both are probably true. But there is no indication of an alliance. Merely that Romulans were using Klingon looking ships. They could have stolen the design for all we know. And Klingon ships didn't start cloaking until "ST III", and THAT's because the BOP was going to be a Romulan ship originally.
The alliance/exchange of ideas is a fan-invented theory, that officially, is "most likely, and probably won't be contradicted", but isn't strictly cannon.
quote:
Originally posted by PsyLiam:
I know that. It doesn't change the fact that it can be changed by the writers if they want. And, as all that's been said on screen is "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon Designs", it won't contradict anything.
Was that in reference to "The Enterprise Incident"? I haven't seen that episode in ages, but what *I* recall is that a Battlecruiser decloaks and Scotty blurts, "That's a KLINGON ship!" Was there some followup I've forgotten?
Episode: "The Enterprise Incident" from The Original Series
Setting: The Enterprise Bridge.
The newly built Klingon battlecruiser model decloaks.
Everyone is like "Wait, thats a Klingon ship! We're in the ROMULAN neutral zone!"
Spock says "Intelligence reports the Romulans are using Klingon designs" really quickly to explain it.
The episode then moves on without mentioning it again.
Thats why Klingon and Romulan ships are often confused, because they started to use features from each other to save $$ for the show.
Klingons have ships called 'Warbird' (ENT)
Romulans have 'Birds of Prey' (Balance of Terror)
The Alliance
Klingons acquire a bunch of Birds of Prey.
Romulans acquire Battlecruisers and some ships called Warbirds.
And that's how both empires used both these names in history.
ossible flame:-----well, perhaps we get introduced to a new alien species known as the No'con'tynui'ty aliens, lead by their leader Bra'ga. They use there superior technology to change the past because it didnt look 'cool' enuff and they wanted to rake in the big (star)bucks!
and the akiraprise is their alien infiltrator into the federation.
Buzz
How could you forget a big ass-bird like that?
[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
That wasn't a suicide attempt. That was me putting something over my mouth to stop me from speaking.
*recovers face*
does it start with 'F'?
It wasn't "fuck", if that's what you mean. It was an attempt to stop me from saying an offensive (but obviously funny, natch) joke.
*covers face again*
I'll be photoshopping a ship with the picture of a big ass bird on it though. good stuff
Buzz
Made particularly hillarious by the fact that I can easily visual a klingon Big Bird class starship.
Screw you guys, I'm goin home.
[/Cartman voice]
*Places face on pillow again*
Oscar the Grouch would make a fitting Chief Engineer, no?
Look i've discovered the missing link in Klingon evolution
Buzz
I cant decide whether its Romulan or klingon though, so i guess i achieved my design goal