posted
"We did make one mistake in the premiere episode that wasn't caught until it was too late so I'll apologize now. We mention a Klingon Bird-of-Prey." (B.B.) http://www.trektoday.com/news/100901_03.shtml
I don't know if I should be grateful or angry, if I should laugh or cry, but Braga doesn't even seem to know what continuity is (if the BoP is his only concern).
posted
Given that there isn't a single thing in "Broken Bow" that contradicts any canon, even the bird-of prey, Braga is actually overcompensating. I have yet to see anyone mention any solid canon contradictions, only contradictions of (admittedly popular) opinions.
Regarding this example in particular, what is it about Klingons having a bird-of-prey in 2151 that goes against canon, anyway? The only type of ship referred to as a bird-of-prey was operated by Klingons, so it's not unreasonable to assume they operated them in the past. If Braga is referring to the notion that the Romulans gave the Klingons that ship during the original series alliance, that was never stated anywhere, so there's not really a problem. The Romulan "bird-of-prey" was never even called such on screen; novels, for instance, called it a "warbird" for decades.
And as one final note, the script uses the word "warbird" rather than "bird-of-prey." Either way, there's no canon violation because there has never been a reference to when either term came into use.
[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
posted
I'd venture to believe that Braga said "Warbird" at the convention and this elicited groans, but the newsletter botched once more in the retelling (sorta proving how even fans can mess things up). If something gets "missed" it means that it wasn't one thing ("Warbird" in both the May 1 and May 11 script drafts) and then changed to another supposedly incorrect thing on the soundstage.
In any case, we finally get an episode ordering nailed down which matches what "Morpheus," a tipster @ TrekBBS, has been saying.
# / Title / Writer / Director ---------------------------- 721 (01 & 02) / Broken Bow / Berman & Braga / Conway 03 / Fight or Flight / Berman & Braga / ??? 04 / Strange New World / ??? / Livingston 05 / Unexpected / Berman & Braga / ??? 06 / Terra Nova / ??? / Burton 07 / The Andorian Incident / ??? / Dawson 08 / Breaking the Ice / ??? / ??? 09 / Civilization / ??? / Vejar
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
posted
"I don't know if I should be grateful or angry, if I should laugh or cry"
I'd get a life actually.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
posted
Well, that was uncalled for. I think Bernd commands great respect on this board and I'm sure he would tell you that he HAS a life and is quite happy with it.
Klingons got that ship design from the Romulans along with their cloaking technology, and through that same transfer the Rommies got their D-7 battlecruisers. That has long been the official story.
Even if something doesn't directly run against canon, I'm getting pretty f*ckin' tired of the officials changing their story. It makes life ever so much more difficult for us.
-MMoM
P.S. BTW, Psy, you are a FRIGGING STAND-UP COMEDIAN!
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
This really isn't much of an issue, guys. Ever culture is going to have a term similar to "Bird-of-Prey." That's what eagles, condors, vultures, and the like of predatory birds are. For cultures heavily based on a warrior society or military society, it is entirely possible and probably that they would name their premiere ship designs after creatures of flight that know no superiors in hunting. Hence, we have the Klingon and Romulan ships of the same designation. In the native languages, the words to describe "Bird of Prey" are completely different, but they do get translated into English as "Birds of Prey."
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I wasn't being nasty, but quite frankly Bernd's slightly hysterical reaction to a comment that
a/ didn't contradict anything, and b/ was a misquote anyway,
made me think that there's over-reaction, and then there's wanting to rant and scream at the world because someone doesn't say UESPA.
"Klingons got that ship design from the Romulans along with their cloaking technology, and through that same transfer the Rommies got their D-7 battlecruisers. That has long been the official story."
No, that has long been Okuda (and the others) hypothetical version of what might have happened, that could be easily changed if a story demands it.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
posted
Um, Tim, what's your point exactly? That there are sillier-looking aliens (in your opinion of course) in TOS and that Braga's is thereby pissing on all that Roddenberry stands for?
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I wouldn't start actively campaigning against the notion that the Andorians looked silly - it might make me look even sillier. I mean, Odd-colored Martians from Venus with Antennae (TM) are among the oldest cliches in visual scifi. Trek didn't have to do them, like it didn't have to redo a Flash Gordon rocketship to create the Enterprise. Yet they are very much part of what Trek represents - using fundamentally silly settings for telling enjoyable (and, every fiftieth episode or so, thought-provoking) stories.
I do have one objection to Klingons using warbirds or birds-of-prey or anything even remotely ornithoid. Avian patterns painted on starships were the primary identifying feature of the Romulan race - in fact, basically the *only* such feature known by the 2260s. Having Klingons share this attribute is certainly reasonable and plausible (every flyboy out there ought to have a bird fetish, just as Siegfried says), yet it makes one wonder about the 2260s attitudes towards bird-patterned ships.
Romulans were enemies, Klingons were enemies. Romulans flew birdships, Klingons flew birdships. One would assume that the Earthlings would count two plus two together, and openly suspect the Klingons of having fought the Romulan war, of *being* the Romulans.
posted
What I meant is that the "Warbird or BoP" question is exactly the kind of superficial continuity discussion I would like to avoid. I can easily accept that they give things slightly different names, that there is no UESPA and maybe that the Andorians look a bit different too (since the Klingons do anyway). Having the same ship design, the same bridge layout, the same technology, the same kind of stories as in the other series, but different planets and aliens of the week is what will really ruin continuity.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Having the same ship design, the same bridge layout, the same technology, the same kind of stories as in the other series, but different planets and aliens of the week is what will really ruin continuity.
Funny, I thought that continuity was all about making reference back to previous incarnations of Trek and building the impression that it was all part of one multi-dimensional universe. Silly me.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
posted
I know that. It doesn't change the fact that it can be changed by the writers if they want. And, as all that's been said on screen is "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon Designs", it won't contradict anything.
Or didyou miss the part of the chronology which says "a lot of this is hypothetical. It's not meant to force the writers into saying "Kirk had a second five year mission after St:TMP. It's to say "Kirk PROBABLY had a second five year misson after TMP, but if a future episode shows he spent 5 years on a farm milking giant cows, then that's what he did."
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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