A Ferengi on Enterprise. What a bunch of a**holes.
[edited for language]
[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
Oops. I'll fix it, even though CaptainMike has been kind enough to post a working link of his own.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
wow.. i didnt even use the URL tag.. it linked it on its own.. nice forum you got here, Mistah Capps..
Oh, and the fucking Ferengi is being played by goddamn Ethan 'Neelix' Phillips.. i never wanted to see that idiot again except in repeats.. son of a bitch, you know i was beginning to soften up on Braga and Berman. Couple of assholes, thats what they are.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
Here's a crazy idea: see what they do before getting all bent out of shape. How do you know the Enterprise crew will ever meet the Ferengi in question? The Ferengi could be working in legion with, say, the Suliban in the Helix, but is never seen by the humans. Or he could be part of a "menagerie of aliens" on some sort of prison planet, in which case he's one of many unknowns. It's a little premature to just throw up arms and give up.
So far there haven't been any major continuity errors in Enterprise, and there is no reason to assume that this will be one. Even if it is.
[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Besides which, events in TNG and DS9 even contradicted the whole "we didn't meet them until Season One TNG' anyway", so I don't see how this is any worse then that.
Besides, Enterprise isn't part of the same Starfleet that the Enterprise was, 'member?
[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Besides which, events in TNG and DS9 even contradicted the whole "we didn't meet them until Season One TNG' anyway", so I don't see how this is any worse then that.
When? I don't remember any Next Generation or Deep Space Nine reference to any Federation member species meeting the Ferengi before 2364.
Aside, of course, from the Battle of Maxia.
[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Ditto. It could be a continuity error of a magnitude large enough to piss me off. In which case I will be, although I won't do the whole hari kari Trek-is-being-destroyed routine. But it also could end up being a kind of neat in-joke. Say the crew runs into an alien trader in a marketplace on some planet crowded with aliens of every sort. This guy's got big ears and they end up haggling in a bidding war for information, but don't catch the name of its species. Could even be funny. Dramatic irony, and all.
Or it could be an alien poppping up on the viewscreen saying "Hi! I'm a Ferengi. Pleased to meet you." In which case we'll have our first blatant continuity error of the series. And the earth will continue to rotate, and children in Ethiopia will continue to starve, and I will continue to tune in Wednesday nights at eight hoping for a free hour of entertainment.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I'm sure they won't make such a blatant f*ckup... not after they quite succesfully resurrected the Andorians and gave faces to two of TOS's obscure aliens (Axanari and Malurians) *and* giving a TNG alien some background (Nausicaans). Ferengis, Klingons and holodecks are popular among the production crew, one would think.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Because the production crew are dopes. Why cant they make a good show instead of another Ferengi-holodeck-Klingon show?
Even if they have the Ferengi meet no one, be perfectly explained, and leave continuity unscathed, I'm still going to be pissed off at seeing that fat oaf Neelix on the screen again, in any form. Why cant they accept what sucked about Voyager (him) and leave it behind.
Perhaps their imagination of their proudest hour as writers would be to successfully combine the plots from 'Spock's Brain', 'The Outrageous Okona', 'Force of Nature', 'Threshold' and 'Tuvix' "Fire the science advisors and call Joes Piscopo, we have some shitty television to make!" will be their rallying cry!
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
quote:Why cant they make a good show instead of another Ferengi-holodeck-Klingon show?
Like Deep Space Nine?
quote:I'm still going to be pissed off at seeing that fat oaf Neelix on the screen again, in any form. Why cant they accept what sucked about Voyager (him) and leave it behind.
You won't be seeing Neelix. You'll be seeing Ethan Phillips, a perfectly friendly guy who's never said anything nasty about you. That I know of.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
The difference being that DS9 was good. And Braga never went anywhere near it. We've all discussed the reasons that ENT shouldn't have Ferengi and holodecks and Klingons. because those plot elements are tired, and ENT wants to be original.
You are right I have no reason to dis Ethan. But I'm mad. And the way this situation has been described to me really stinks.
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
I was under the impression they met the Ferengi during the tng time period, in the official contact sense.
The Ferengi probably dealt with human traders long before.
But Picard and the crew of the Ent-D was clueless about the Ferengi ships and abilities and as well as their culture.[The stargazer blew up a Ferengi ship and didn't even know about it]-Meaning Starfleet have spotty records on the Ferengi from Stargazer to Ent-D.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:well as their culture
Actually, Data knew quite a bit about their culture. He gave a very detailed run down at the beginning of "The Last Outpost"
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I'm fine with toying with TNG season 1 continuity a little and making sure that DS9 Ferengi make sense (i.e. humans had met Ferengi, just not officially).. but the dont seem to fit at all thematically with Enteprise
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
Isn't Ferengi space far away? Sure they are traders and can let distance stand in the way of a good deal, but didn't they also have poor warp drive and is one of the last species to get their hands on it?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It would be funny if Ethan-Philips-Ferengi is seen eating his business partner, leading to Picard's somewhat strange not in TNG.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Interesting that the article didn't mention the fact that he played a Talaxian playing a Ferengi in that one VOY ep, too (I don't really feel like looking up the name).
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Perish the thought that TrekToday wouldn't put out journalism to rival the best of Fleet Street.
One more thing: Have a look at who's visiting the bar at Starbase Earhart in "Tapestry," circa, what, 2327 or so?
[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
The episode was "False Profits."
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Given the Battle of Maxia, Picard's assertion that the Federation had never encountered the Ferengi was a bit weird, but not an all-out contradiction. What we then learned in DS9 - such as the spread of the Ferengi throughout the Alpha Quadrant territories - likewise put a strain on the "no contact with the Ferengi before TNG" thing, but again it didn't directly contradict it. Each time, you can explain it away.
If, however, Archer & Co. meet one of our favourite loved aliens, who says "hi, I'm Merchant Bork of the Ferengi, can I sell you something?" then that's a direct violation of continuity. However, the fact remains that most people here won't see it that way, because after all it was only TNG. If DS9 had actually re-iterated the "no previous contact" statement, then you'd likely have a problem. It seems sad to me that my least-favourite Trek incarnation is becoming the yardstick against which all else is judged, but that's by the by.
Note, however, I said "If." So far I like what I've seen of Enterprise, and have been able to suspend disbelief or distrust and just enjoy it for what it is.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well, it always struck me that TNG sort of bent the rule on contact with the Ferengi alot. For one thing, Data knew *A LOT* about them in "The Last Outpost" ... for another thing, "Captain's Holiday" seemed to imply that at least one Ferengi had been in the somewhat employ/partnership of/with a Daystrom Inst. scientist for a number of years.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Archer knows that Dr. Phlox is a Denobulan from Denobula Triaxa. Beyond that...can he tell us anything about their culture, their history, the way their society functions? No, of course not. Isolated cases do not a general knowledge base create.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I wonder if when they see the Ferengi, someone will ask them about Roswell. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
OK.. Ferengi scheme of things before:
23rd century: The Ferengi are traders.. they are known to humans at Farspace stations, but nothing is known about them other than their existence. ('Tapestry')
Mid-23rd century: Expansion of both races leads to humans knowing Ferengi, entering into deals with them. (Vash & Sovak). The Ferengi are known to Cardassians and Bajorans. The Ferengi Alliance, as a political entity, is unknown to the Federation.
Battle of Maxia: Starfleet has no idea that it was a ferengi ship. Ferengi rumors are passed around it seems, such as their 'cannibalism'
The Last Outpost: The Ferengi are identified by the 1701-D. of course, the Federation will reconcile the appearance of the traders from previous mentions and the battle with the existence of an actual Ferengi government.
.. Hopefully Reed will see Feren-Neelix, and test a new weapon on him that leaves not much of his torso and head intact, and is chided by Archer and T'Pol for robbing them the ability to get acquainted with this species for the next 200 years or so. Yay!
Plus i really need to see characters played by Phillips die. They suck.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
DIE DIE every Philips character DIE
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm a little unclear about all this, but, it seems to me, the Ferengi Problem is not a matter of conflicting canon, as it were. We've never had any UFP official type character say "Oh, the Ferengi, yes, we've known of them for centuries."
The problem is, as I see it, a conceptual one. The Ferengi are portrayed as the single most influential trading block in the alpha quadrant. The UFP is the largest economy. The Ferengi should be attracted to the Federation like...I don't know, some overwrought metaphor. There's no reason, in other words, for the Ferengi to avoid the Federation.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Except for that whole "we don't use money" thing.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Yeah, that one will bite you in the ass every time.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Er...economy != money. To put it even more simply, the Federation has great value, however you decide to count it. Raw materials, space, information, etc. The Ferengi, or anyone else, for that matter, should be quite eager to transfer some of that value to themselves.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Interesting snippet that my trawling of the internet mellieu turned up:
From a post at Psi Phi's BBS, an exchange between Kevin Dilmore (writer w/ Star Trek Communicator) and one Lee Jamilkowski.
Dilmore:
quote:Re: Enterprise's Ferengi show ... If what I hear comes to pass, this is gonna be fun.
Y'all be cool
Kevin
Jamilkowski:
quote:So, Kevin, I presume from your comments that you're privy to some information. Can you at least reassure us that what they're doing isn't a violation of continuity and what was established on Star Trek: The Next Generation?
Dilmore:
quote:Yes and yes. Kevin
Jamilkowski:
quote:How I wish I was telepathic right now... I guess we're going to need to wait for the next issue or two of Communicator to find out what's going on in that head of yours, eh?
Dilmore:
quote:Not next issue - and not necessarily my head, Lee. BTW, telepathy is overrated. I knew you were gonna say that!
Kevin
Read into this whatever you will.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Read into this whatever you will.
Are they gonna hook up? I can see him totally digging the other guy.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Regarding something The Tom let slip a few messages ago: was there really a Ferengi at Starbase Earhart in "Tapestry"? I remember reading from Nemecek's TNG Companion that Westmore and other people involved were sent thick memoes with fiery lettering three feet high that said "No Ferengi Allowed In This Facility", and that Westmore complied with that.
The thing they got wrong was putting representatives of the two blood enemies from "Lonely Among Us" standing peacefully next to each other. But no Ferengi, according to Nemecek.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
There's no reason why every Antican has to hate every...Selay? Maybe it was like Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?
[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Sol System ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Indeed. Romeo and Juliet. They made their love on wasteland, across the barricades. . . Oh God, I just quoted Spandau Ballet lyrics. Er. Um. Or, perhaps, some sort of Green Drazi - Purple Drazi type of thing, they only feel the need to kill each other during certain times of the year, century whatever.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
You're a poet after all!
But may I ask why you said that TNG was your least favorite Trek series?? Surely nothing can be worse than VOY, not even ENT, I would assume.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
All we are Selay-ing, is give peace a chance
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Wait, who said TNG was their least fave? Because it wasn't me.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Quote: If, however, Archer & Co. meet one of our favourite loved aliens, who says "hi, I'm Merchant Bork of the Ferengi, can I sell you something?" then that's a direct violation of continuity. However, the fact remains that most people here won't see it that way, because after all it was only TNG. If DS9 had actually re-iterated the "no previous contact" statement, then you'd likely have a problem. It seems sad to me that my least-favourite Trek incarnation is becoming the yardstick against which all else is judged, but that's by the by.
I thought, by "my least favorite Trek incarnation" you were referring to TNG.
Sorry if I got you wrong.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
He's clearly referring to DS9. Although how he can enjoy Voyager more then Deep Space Nine is 100% beyond me.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
He likes to watch 7 of 9 perhaps.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
bah!
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Oh well, there's allways the odd one out. Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
You completely miss the point. My issue is with the fact that DS9 now seems to be seen as the 'proper' Trek show, whereas Voyager for all its faults was at least out there boldly going, albeit very slowly. Not liking DS9 doesn't automatically make me a Seven of Nine groupie.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
New spoiler info corroborates the no-canon violation claim.
While we were reasonably civilized here in not having everyone devoting every waking hour to putting up their own "Yet more proof Berman and Braga eat copies of the Chronology drenched in human blood for dinner" thread, I wonder how many African children could have been fed with the time and energy expended over this over at other boards *cough* TrekBBS *cough*. Much, and I mean much, ado about nothing.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: Not liking DS9 doesn't automatically make me a Seven of Nine groupie.
But are you? Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
$$$$ (to elaborate Tom's post)
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
In the episode, four Ferengi pirates manage to render the entire crew of the Enterprise unconscious, and begin to look through the ship for loot. Luckily, Tucker is in the decon chamber when they board the ship, and avoids inhaling the gas used by the Ferengi to infect the atmosphere. He wakes up Archer and T'Pol, and the three begin to work to take the ship back.
In the few days since it was announced the Ferengi would be appearing on Enterprise, fans have been concerned that this would conflict with the Next Generation episode 'The Last Outpost,' in which the official first contact between humans and Ferengi was supposed to have taken place. However, in 'Acquisition' Captain Archer's crew will apparantly never find out that the intruders are called Ferengi, allowing for the existence of the Ferengi to remain hidden for another two centuries.
-From TrekToday
[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, that's a relief!
(See? This is why I wisened up fast and decided *not* to scream "continuity violation" until all the facts are known... )
-MMoM
[ January 24, 2002, 19:58: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Unless Archer suddenly says "Hey, I know these guys. They are called Ferengi. I've seen them once on some old TV show - I think it was called 'The Next Generation' or something... I never knew they were real aliens!"
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Yes.. i am appesed .. i wish it was possible to take back voodoo. Oh well, they'll get used to the pain
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
Spoilers for 'Dear Doctor':
$
$
$
$
$
$
In the episode 'Dear Doctor' an alien mentioned Heving contact with a race that is called 'Ferengi'. In the reaction of Archer and T'Pol it is clear that they neither know who the Ferengi are.
Unfortunately this episode is before the already mentioned Ferengi episode.
$
$
$
$
$
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Spoilers for 'Dear Doctor' above!
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I fail to see how that's a problem. Archer's heard of Ferengi, and then meets mysterious aliens with big ears. (Indeed, perhaps the party of Ferengi from "Acquisition" will be the very same Ferengi that met the Valakians. Early explorers a long way from home on a mission of bargain-hunting.) If somebody mentioned Lesothans in casual conversation to me one day and then a few months later I talked to a generic black guy [who actually was from Lesotho] at a bus stop without asking about his nationality, I still can't write home to my mum telling her about how exciting it was to meet a Lesothan.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Er ... haven't the Ferengi been mentioned BEFORE? I thought they were mentioned before "Dear, Doctor" in an off-handed remark by someone ...
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: I wonder how many African children could have been fed with the time and energy expended over this over at other boards *cough* TrekBBS *cough*. Much, and I mean much, ado about nothing.
I made the exact same comment about Voyager and got chewed out for it.
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