------------------
What bloke invented signatures?
*Creates piccy*
This won't look so great but it is accurate.
------------------
I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
[This message was edited by Daryus Aden on April 05, 1999.]
if thats the big one, I don't think the Jemmie bug is that big...
------------------
Alamaraine, count to four...
------------------
Alamaraine, count to four...
------------------
I know engineers - they love to change things. (McCoy, STTMP)
www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
The battlecruiser is sometimes ~700m, and sometimes ~300m. The V-ship is also ~300.
The battleship, of course, is supposedly ~1200m.
The bug is ~93m on the show.
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Destruction Drone: "Throw down your weapons and I will spare your miserable lives!"
Rollbar: "That's the best offer we've had all day..."
Tanru
Andrew
------------------
Alamaraine, count to four...
Tanru
Landru
Andrew
------------------
Alamaraine, count to four...
The bug is:
*holds out arms*
...THIS big!
------------------
"I'm sorry I'm late....
I've been irrigating the desert...
Which isn't easy on your own."
- M&W
------------------
There's a lady who knows, all that glitters is gold...and she's buying a stairway to heaven. -Led Zeppelin, "Stairway to Heaven"
------------------
What bloke invented signatures?
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Destruction Drone: "Throw down your weapons and I will spare your miserable lives!"
Rollbar: "That's the best offer we've had all day..."
------------------
"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks
Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit "A".
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/6151/vship.jpg
Painstakingly handscanned [poorly] by yours truly [to an insane enlargement level].
Note the "inverse Bolian" ridge down the middle, absent in the regular battlecruiser, as well as the [proportionally] larger upper nacelle-thingies, and of course longer, more definately-slanted wings.
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
[This message was edited by The_Tom on April 07, 1999.]
------------------
Alamaraine, count to four...
However the next time this ship was seen was in 'Ties of Blood and water' TPTB decided that the V ship model wasn't pretty enough so they made a more highly detailed and larger ship (Eg Duakts Flagship in A Call to Arms). They chose to ignore the V ship, including in the DS9 TM . However the V ship then cropped up again in the SOFA battle at roughly 400 meters.
Bernd - Yes there are differences between the two! Notice the different proportional nacelle sizes, and the fact that the front fork of the larger of the pair ends off more quickly than that of the smaller one.
A full comparison if you please *L*: (Promptly pasting together new one!). I just threw in the Defiant for reference...so no maoning about it's size!
Voila!
------------------
I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
[This message was edited by Daryus Aden on April 07, 1999.]
I wonder if the scenes where the battecruiser shows up as ~300m are meant to be of the V-ship. Or maybe this is the BoP situation again.
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Destruction Drone: "Throw down your weapons and I will spare your miserable lives!"
Rollbar: "That's the best offer we've had all day..."
*all join hands*
Shimberee... shimberah.. shimbereee.. shimberah
(obscure purple dinosaur reference)
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
------------------
I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
------------------
Early bird catches the gagh. (The Doctor to B'Elanna at 06:00, "Drone")
www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
------------------
There's a lady who knows, all that glitters is gold...and she's buying a stairway to heaven. -Led Zeppelin, "Stairway to Heaven"
(Of course, we have yet to see a giant ship for the Cardies, but there's always the finale... *hopes*)
------------------
"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks
------------------
"Walk softly and carry a big stick"-Theodore Roosevelt
Four ships are logical. The Cruiser is the size of a Galaxy, and you can only build so many of those. You need a medium sixed warship - The V ship!
------------------
I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
Looking at these picture from Perdo's Shiporama and visually identifying the Jem-hadar Battlecruiser near the Galor, we see that they have a nearly identical length. Didn't soemone say there was one size, which was about 700m? How long is a Galor? 300 is it? It stands to reason that this is about 300 as well.
------------------
What bloke invented signatures?
------------------
What bloke invented signatures?
I was reviewing Saba's videos from SofA, and had a good long look at the final ship the Defiant passes over... the damn big one that's a squeeze to squish into the 630-730 meter size bracket... and lo and behold... I think we have yet another Battlecruiser design. Nearly identical from the back, but from the front you can make out quite a few differences
Now have I cracked yet another great secret of ship scaling or should I lay off the LSD?
BTW, the only image Pedro had doesn't really show off the features I was talking about too well... they appear several frames later, often lit by the light of the explosion.
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
[This message was edited by The_Tom on April 09, 1999.]
We know that the Battlecruiser in SofA was not a V-ship but was of V-ship size. However, everywhere else it was 600-700m long, which fits the windows on the model better.
BTW, the thread is a bit long and therefore big as it is... could we change those pics to URLs?
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
Okay, we have the bug, which in the VFX is ~93m. And the V-ship, which is about 3 times the size of the bug, so if you believe me, it's ~300m.
Then there's the big ship Tom mentioned, which might very well be a different type.
Then the ~1200m batteship.
Now, the battecruiser. It was, I think, ~350m in CtA. And about that in SoA. So...I don't think it's ever been ~700m.
BTW, Galors aren't useful for scaling, since they keep changing size. Nor is DS9, for that matter.
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
It's about the Battlecruiser (639.75) and the Destroyer (385 meters - accoring to me).
I agree that last ship the Defiant flew over was massive...closer to 900 m, but I think it was just an oversized battlecruiser.
------------------
I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
------------------
Alamaraine, count to four...
Let me try to get this organized, Peregrine-style.
Bugs
Cruisers
Variant One: V-ship
Variant Two: Standard Battlecruiser
Variant Three: BattleBattleCruiser
Battleships
BTW, my current guess is that the "battlebattlecruiser" was either designed as yet another draft of the Cruiser design (like the Standard one) before "Ties..." aired, or was created in the "SofA" production process by adding a lot more detail to the current model for its close-up.
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
[This message was edited by The_Tom on April 10, 1999.]
[This message was edited by The_Tom on April 10, 1999.]
Don't assume a 170m Defiant. The Defiant has never been shown to be 170m on the show. I don't care what you believe, but even if you think the VFX have been wrong each time, the ship has always been 120m in the VFX.
I haven't investigated the windows, but, again, DS9 itself isn't useful for scaling.
The battlecruiser in CtA was 3.5 times the length of the bug.
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
And let me clarify that "four sizes" thing. I was only trying to give precedent for having four different majore sizes of ships. I wasn't saying that every race needs to have four sizes. The Cardies only have two (Galor/Keldon and Hideki). The Rommies only have one, unless you count the scout! I was just trying to counter the arguement "What purpose would this ship serve? The Dominion already has a heavy assualt ship and has its smaller 'fighters.'".
------------------
"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator
[lets not take this any further. You know where it will go...]
The Battlecruiser "appeared" 3.5 time the length of a fighter in CtA when they passed by beam-on.. but later on, you see them from the back, and there's actually several hundred meters between them. The battlecruiser is clearly shown to be 3-4 times the beam of the fighter. That fits it into the 630-730 Stipes/Sternbach length bracket.
*hunts for piccy from ToB+W, ItC or CtA or ship docked*
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
And those ships aren't several hundred meters apart. Watch the episode; they're actually very close.
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
------------------
I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
Boris
------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
------------------
"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
Boris
Otherwise my old rule applies:
*** Equal shape ----> equal size ***
*takes cover*
------------------
Early bird catches the gagh. (The Doctor to B'Elanna at 06:00, "Drone")
www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
[This message was edited by Bernd on April 14, 1999.]
Galors are HUGE. They have never been portrayed at 371m to my knowledge. They started out being designed at 481m for "The Wounded", but every time I've seen them next to the Defiant they are 600m long or so, even when the ship is taken as 100m. And I don't even want to try to work out the size of that Galor chasing Chakotay's raider (assuming the thing is 70-80m long). Yes, they would have huge decks but DS9 has 20' decks as well, so this isn't a problem.
I don't care if the majority of visual evidence happens to contradict the official figures despite of this (with the exception of DS9, of course), as long as we keep it at one size for the V-ship and one size for the other one. Given the Galor-thing above I have a feeling the ship is closer to the official value, and a window examination will probably support the answer.
Boris
[This message was edited by Boris on April 14, 1999.]
As for the Galor, they were smaller than a galaxy in TNG, I'd put them about the size of a Vorcha.
------------------
I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
Bear is sick of being a junior member!
lol
------------------
hello world
[This message was edited by bear on May 25, 1999.]