posted
Andrew: That's the ship we're referring to above.
Let me try to get this organized, Peregrine-style.
Bugs
First appear in "The Jem'Hadar", about 93m, perhaps a bit shorter.
Through s3 and s4 they vary from 120-160m, [assuming a 170m Defiant]
In the great nail-down of s5, they are nailed down at 152m.
s5-present they've been 152m consistently. [assuming a 170m Defiant]
Cruisers Variant One: V-ship
300-400m, seen in "In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light". Leaving wormhole footage reused at start of "Call to Arms"
Variant Two: Standard Battlecruiser
In "Ties and Blood of Water" it docks at DS9, and despite the station's rather erratic size, it is obviously between 500 and 800m long. This is supported by the windows. The docked shot reappeared in "In the Cards" and "Call to Arms". Worf referred to it as a Battleship.
In the final battle of "Call to Arms", appears at 625-750m long assuming a 152m long bug.
In "A Time to Stand" is shown docked to Terok Nor along with several Galors. Clearly in the 625-750m range. This shot is reused in most of the remaining War arc stories.
300-400m during battle with Starfleet forces in opening of SofA fight.
Immediately before the Klingons arrive, the Defiant passes over a few. They appear to be bigger than above, but any extrapolation here is iffy.
Variant Three: BattleBattleCruiser
Appears in back lines of Dominion fleet in "Sacrifice of Angels". 800-1000m long.
Battleships
Experimental Dominion Dreadnaught, "twice as big as Galxy Class ship", (1300m?) from "Valiant".
BTW, my current guess is that the "battlebattlecruiser" was either designed as yet another draft of the Cruiser design (like the Standard one) before "Ties..." aired, or was created in the "SofA" production process by adding a lot more detail to the current model for its close-up.
------------------ "......" �������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
[This message was edited by The_Tom on April 10, 1999.]
[This message was edited by The_Tom on April 10, 1999.]
posted
The bug has never been shown to be 152m, to my knowledge.
Don't assume a 170m Defiant. The Defiant has never been shown to be 170m on the show. I don't care what you believe, but even if you think the VFX have been wrong each time, the ship has always been 120m in the VFX.
I haven't investigated the windows, but, again, DS9 itself isn't useful for scaling.
The battlecruiser in CtA was 3.5 times the length of the bug.
------------------ http://frankg.dgne.com/ Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!" Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
posted
See why we shouldn't use the VFX for numbers? Just use them to say "this ship is bigger than that ship" or "this ship is about half-as-long as that ship", an so on...
And let me clarify that "four sizes" thing. I was only trying to give precedent for having four different majore sizes of ships. I wasn't saying that every race needs to have four sizes. The Cardies only have two (Galor/Keldon and Hideki). The Rommies only have one, unless you count the scout! I was just trying to counter the arguement "What purpose would this ship serve? The Dominion already has a heavy assualt ship and has its smaller 'fighters.'".
------------------ "I KNOW I'm dense..." -a certain anonymous administrator
posted
Frank: The bug was 152m every time it was shown with the Defiant ;-)
[lets not take this any further. You know where it will go...]
The Battlecruiser "appeared" 3.5 time the length of a fighter in CtA when they passed by beam-on.. but later on, you see them from the back, and there's actually several hundred meters between them. The battlecruiser is clearly shown to be 3-4 times the beam of the fighter. That fits it into the 630-730 Stipes/Sternbach length bracket.
*hunts for piccy from ToB+W, ItC or CtA or ship docked*
------------------ "......" �������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
Another suggestion - leave the V-ship debate to rest until we are actually able to observe the window spacing on the model. I believe there are some windows on the underside of the ship, not visible in the usual diagrams.
posted
I'd prefer the window argument, but I'm not sure if the window distances of the two cruiser types are actually different, if they only modified the V-ship to model the battlecruiser.
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
Rule Number One:
Galors are HUGE. They have never been portrayed at 371m to my knowledge. They started out being designed at 481m for "The Wounded", but every time I've seen them next to the Defiant they are 600m long or so, even when the ship is taken as 100m. And I don't even want to try to work out the size of that Galor chasing Chakotay's raider (assuming the thing is 70-80m long). Yes, they would have huge decks but DS9 has 20' decks as well, so this isn't a problem.
I don't care if the majority of visual evidence happens to contradict the official figures despite of this (with the exception of DS9, of course), as long as we keep it at one size for the V-ship and one size for the other one. Given the Galor-thing above I have a feeling the ship is closer to the official value, and a window examination will probably support the answer.
Boris
[This message was edited by Boris on April 14, 1999.]
posted
Ok, this off on some really fXXXed up tangent, but you are telling me that the beast of a 12-1600 meter Jem battleship was built in less than three years, and a Galaxy takes ten years to build? Bear's head really hurt...the war is over....pack your bags boys.
Bear is sick of being a junior member! lol ------------------ hello world
[This message was edited by bear on May 25, 1999.]
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