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Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

Alright, this is a subject I've been thinking out for a while. First, the list of Constitutions (note, this is according to my theories on the Constitution class)

USS Constitution NX-9xx
USS Eagle NCC-956
USS Constellation NCC-1071
USS Republic NCC-1371
USS Intrepid NCC-1631
USS Farragut NCC-1647
USS Potemkin NCC-1657
USS Excalibur NCC-1664
USS Exeter NCC-1672
USS Essex NCC-1697
USS Constitution NCC-1700
USS Enterprise NCC-1701
USS Hood NCC-1703
USS Lexington NCC-1709
USS Kongo NCC-1710
USS Yorktown NCC-1717/USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A
USS Defiant NCC-1764
USS Endeavour NCC-1895

Alright, now that is 18 Constitutions. The line of Kirk's from "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" says there are only 12 Constitutions as of 2266. With the exception of USS Endeavour, all of the Constitution's listed were in service in 2266. That means there are 17 Constitutions. Now, if you support the USS Constitution NX-9xx theory, then the Constitution would have been destroyed by now, that leaves 16 Constitutions. The first to bite the dust on the show is USS Constellation, a year later from Kirk's quote in 2267. That means, according to the list, 16 Constitution class starships are in service in 2266. BUT, Kirk says there are only 12. My question is, what's with the extra 4?

Well, it is possible that USS Defiant NCC-1764 wasn't launched quite yet, which would take off another Constitution. This still leaves 3 more extras.

It is possible those 3 extras were the USS Eagle, USS Constellation, and USS Republic, which, as some theorize, started off as other classes and were converted to Constitution. It is possible, that in 2265 or 2266, the Constellation, Republic and Eagle were in refit. When the Constellation was released from refit, she didn't last very long, and was destroyed by the Planet Killer. This would also explain why the Eagle seems to have survived so long. Also, Kirk never said when he served on the Republic that it was Constitution class. This was an assumption by the Encyclopedia.

Now, here are the Constitution's in service in 2266:

IN SERVICE:
USS Intrepid NCC-1631
USS Farragut NCC-1647
USS Potemkin NCC-1657
USS Excalibur NCC-1664
USS Exeter NCC-1672
USS Essex NCC-1697
USS Constitution NCC-1700
USS Enterprise NCC-1701
USS Hood NCC-1703
USS Lexington NCC-1709
USS Kongo NCC-1710
USS Yorktown NCC-1717

DESTROYED:
USS Constitution NX-16xx

UNDER CONVERSION:
USS Eagle NCC-956, formerly xxxxx class
USS Constellation NCC-1017, formerly xxxxx class
USS Republic NCC-1371, formerly xxxxx class

UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
USS Defiant NCC-1764
USS Endeavour NCC-1895

Fits, doesn't it?

Any comments? This took me about 20 minutes to think out, so there might be some mistakes

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"The one, the only, THE 359!"

[This message was edited by The359 on June 16, 1999.]

Posted by Trinculo on :

The Making of Star Trek by Stephen Whitfield gives the names of fourteen starships that were Constitution Class starships.
USS Constellation
USS Constituton Prototype ship
USS Enterprise
USS Excalibur
USS Exeter
USS Farrugut
USS Hood
USS Intrepid
USS Kongo
USS Lexington
USS Potemkin
USS Republic
USS Valiant
USS Yorktown

Additional, the book says that "Enterprise-type" (Constitution Class) ships were operational 40 years before the series began, the USS Farrugut and the USS Valiant were destroyed by the beginning of the series, and the USS Constitution is the prototype. Note: I believe the USS Valiant is not the USS Valiant in "A Taste of Armageddon". This unknown USS Valiant came into service after 2217 and is subsequently lost before 2267.

Based on this, when Capt. Kirk tells the Air Force pilot that there are 12 ships of the Enterprise type in 2267, he is thinking-
USS Constellation
USS Constitution
USS Enterprise
USS Excalibur
USS Exeter
USS Hood
USS Intrepid
USS Kongo
USS Lexington
USS Potemkin
USS Republic
USS Yorktown

In 2268, the USS Defiant is introduced. (The crew had no identifying ship emblem on their uniforms.)

The other ships
USS Eagle
USS Enterprise
USS Endeavor
USS Essex
were introduced after 2268.

Constitution Class ships were being built in the year 2286. There is an unmarked ship of this class in the Spacedock ("The Voyage Home").

Personnally, I don't accept that the USS Enterprise A is a refit of the USS Yorktown. I see her as a new ship. (I don't like the idea of the USS Enterprise A as a Constitution Class ship. I understand that the people who did the fourth movie wanted to save money, but couldn't they have done a new class of ship for the Ent-A?)

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

The Enterprise's dedication plaque just said "Starship Class" on it.

Hobbes
9906.16

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Got Trek?

Posted by Trinculo on :

Hobbes
The description "Enterprise-type" is from the book.

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Things like dedication plaques (some props) from TOS can't always be taken as canon. Besides, that could refer to the type (i.e. car,truck) of ship and not the name of the ship class.

After 20 years, Gene and crew did a lot of rethinking (for TNG) of what was estab. in TOS.

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Rule #3 : Whenever someone under you screws up make sure you teach them a lesson more so than you punish them.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Everything on the show is canon.

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"Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank." - TMBG

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

That's one man's opinion...

A while back I figured out the twelve Constitutions that were in service at the time of "Tommorow Is Yesterday". I used the actual stardates rather than the episode order. I forget which ones I came up with, though...

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Posted by Trinculo on :

Paramount considers the episodes and films to be canonical. The other material is less canonical.

Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :

Kirk actually said that there were 'only a dozen like her in the fleet'. Now, a dozen is twelve but it's often used to mean 'about twleve' and the 'like her' bit could mean that the Enterprise wasn't included in the dozen. So that's between say 11 and 14 in service at that time.

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-->Identity Crisis<--

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, most people who say "a dozen", AFAIK, mean exactly twelve. Otherwise it would be "about a dozen". (Either that, or I've been misinterpreting people for years now...)

I figure the twelve are Eagle, Constellation, Intrepid, Potemkin, Excalibur, Exeter, Constitution (1700) , Hood, Lexington, Kongo, Yorktown, and Defiant. Constitution (9xx), Republic, Farragut, and Essex were already destroyed. Endeavour hadn't been launched yet.

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Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :

Republic can't have been destroyed as she was on an Okudagram in ST VI.

Any reason for trashing the Essex?

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-->Identity Crisis<--

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

I think the Farragut is also on the Okudagram. Can't remember though. Oh, and would anyone happen to have a screen capture of the elusive Star Trek VI Okudagram?

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"The one, the only, THE 359!"

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

Yes, but we all agree that somethings that Pramount considers canon are illogical. (i.e. length of Defiant class.)

I was referring to Hobbes two posts above me when he mentioned the ded. plaque fot the Enterprise said "Starship class" when we all know it's a Constitution class. Frank, what you said then means you believe the Enterprise was not a Constitution! I know you don't think that.

I meant the technology almost totally changed between shows.

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"Everything I needed to learn in life I learned from Optimus Prime."

Rule #3 : Whenever someone under you screws up make sure you teach them a lesson more so than you punish them.

Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :

As far as I know the following are the ships from the two Okudagrams in ST VI:

The Ahwahnee, Challenger, Eagle, Endeavour, Potemkin, Scovil, and Springfield are all part of the Operation: Retrieve plan.

The Ahwahnee, Challenger, Constellation, Emden, Endeavour, Helin, Kongo, Korolev, Lantree, Oberth, Republic, and Whorfin (and possibly a couple others) are all shown on a mission assignment list on the Enterprise in Star Trek VI.

No sign of the Farragut.

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-->Identity Crisis<--

Posted by Trinculo on :

The Star Trek Concordance by Bjo Trimble has a full list of starships mentioned in the movie.
USS Ahwahnee
USS Challenger
USS Constellation
USS Eagle
USS Emden
USS Endeavor
USS Helin
USS John Muir
USS Kongo
USS Korolev
USS Lantree
USS Oberth
USS Potemkin
USS Republic
USS Scovil
USS Springfield
USS Whorfin

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

I was just pointing out what the dedication plaque said. At that time when they made the show they hadn't decided to make it Constitution-class.

But I think in the early days of Star Trek, the size of the fleet wasn't really known. All the types of ships used, yes the Federation operated different types of ships, but the Constitution-class was the big main ship of Starfleet.

I can't say what Roddenberry and the rest of the TOS production crew were thinking.

Hobbes
9906.18

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Got Trek?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Erm... Was the Republic in ST6 definitely the Constitution one? And my reason for trashing the Essex is to get my list down to 12. :-)

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"If you hear only one song this year, there's something terribly wrong with you."
-They Might Be Giants, "Critic Intro"

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

The Republic's registry (NCC-1371) was also listed in STVI.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
"Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank." - TMBG

Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :

Hobbes: Though there isn't a very reasonable technical explanation for the showing of the Constitution and nothing else, there is a real life one. Keeping down production costs. They only had a specific amount of money to spend per episode, and couldn't go over it. Just creating the K'tinga model cost them alot of money. That's why the Klingons allied with the Romulans, so they could show NBC they were spending their money wisely on making that model.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Hm... Well, if the Republic was still around, then make it one of the twelve on my list, and file the Defiant w/ the Endeavour as not having been launched...

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"If you hear only one song this year, there's something terribly wrong with you."
-They Might Be Giants, "Critic Intro"