Flare Sci-Fi Forums: The Changing Face of Sabres

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Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Over time, we've caught occasional glimpses of the Sabre-class starship. It's now the ship I'm owrking on for UP 3. I've always felt ambiguous about the ship, though, and here's why. . .

When we first saw it (in ST:FC), it looked like this:

. . .and one blink-and-you-miss-it front view:

Then, when the Encyclopaedia 2 came out, the ship was revealed to look like this:

. . . which was partly confirmed by the CGI view from the Movie Sketchbook:

This was a bit of a blow for me since I'd much preferred the original UP schematic, shown as no. 13 here. Especially when two recent images (from "The Changing Face of Evil") look like this:

My point? Simple. This ship is flat. Really flat. It's easy to be deceived by the tall part at the rear of the Encyclopedia side view, but in fact what I think has happened is this: at the rear is a 'secondary hull' which goes back and slightly up. . . below it, a fin goes down and forward and broadens into an Akira-style deflector hump. There is head-on image from "Sacrifice of Angels" that confirms this, but I can't find it anywhere. . .

So now I apprecaite this little ship a lot more, and it leaves me wondering - why don't we see it more? After the Akira, it's maybe the best-detailed of the FC ships (or neck-and-neck with the Steamrunner at any rate). Maybe the DS9 production staff were worried it would always be confused with the Jem'Hadar bug?

[This message has been edited by The First One (edited August 05, 1999).]

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

*an extensive stream of very inventive cursing*

What kind of f***wit uses .JPG in capitals?

[This message has been edited by The First One (edited August 05, 1999).]

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Here's the deflector:

And here's an aft view:

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I think the Saber, having two warp cores, could be a very promising ship in many ways. The size, being just a wee bit longer than the defiant would make it a formidable fighter in a group of many, against a
Jem 'Hadar cruiser or other capital ships.
It should be used with advantage like the Defiant in "Shattered Mirror" (My No.1 Defiant-Battle) if only Starfleet helmsmen could learn more than attack pattern alpha.

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Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

That's the one. Thank Frank! 8)

As for this two warp-core thing, where'd you get THAT, Nimmychops? Or is this more original Utopia Planitia craziness coming back to haunt us?

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Look what I found:

It is almost a side view, that's why it's so hard to find the deflector dish.

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"Okay! No more mister knive guy!"

- Jim West, Wild Wild West

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

BTW, of the images I posted, the first is from FC, and the second is from SoA.

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

TWO WARP CORES?? Okay where did that info come from? And I know that UP1 got that bad info somewhere, but from who? The only class ships I know that have two warp cores is the Intrepid Class starships.

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Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Frank: I've always thought that ship which flies towards the Enterprise-E was an Akira........

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Except Temptation

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Nope, that's a Sabre (Saber) alright.

The Akira Class has 2 warpcores.
You can see the ejection hatches in this picture:

If you don't believe me, here are some things to think about:
1. It is logical to put the warpcore(s) in the stardrive section in case of a saucer seperation.
2. Given the shape of the Akira, there isn't really another place to put a warpcore in the stardrive section.
3. If you look at the amount of torpedo launchers, I'd say the Akira class is a battleship. And it would be a very good idea to give a battleship 2 warpcores.

BTW: There is always the Prometheus

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"Okay! No more mister knive guy!"

- Jim West, Wild Wild West

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

Aren't warp core hatches usually on the BOTTOM?

And, when the Akira is supposed to seperate, that large square section where the bridge is located is supposed to go with the engineering hull, and you could lay a warp core laterally in there

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"I am Sci-Fi"
-The 359

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Tahna: It's a Saber; I can post more images later if you really want.

I suppose those could be warp core hatches on the Akira, or they could be...anything else.

I doubt the Akira separates, though.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Has anyone got a bigger scan of that picture of the Sabre model? Like, one that will show whether the bridge is that whole big triangle, or the little one, as the encyclopedia diagram suggests?

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The Akira was designed with seperation lines. Jaeger intended her to be capable of seperation. However, whether that capability extended to the actual ship is unknown.

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Bigger Sabre picture

I'm making a seperate thread for the Akira Class, please continue the Akira discussion there.

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"Okay! No more mister knive guy!"

- Jim West, Wild Wild West

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

BTW...Altair: In your above post, that's not the deflector glowing, it's just the inside part of the warp nacelle.

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

You're right, I see what you mean.

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"Okay! No more mister knive guy!"

- Jim West, Wild Wild West

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Hm... Okay, that bigger picture doesn't really help. I guess we'll just have to assume the bridge is the big thing. Alternative being that the ship is a lot bigger than it's supposed to be...

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"I have a shotgun, a shovel, and five acres behind the house. Do not trifle with me."
-from Baloo's cousins' endless supplies of e-mail jokes

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Two Sabres are seen in this pic from Tears...

(Note how similar the Excelsior at center is to that ship we saw in the surplus yard in Unification.. hmmm...)

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

The Sabres in that picture look like they have Dauntless type deflector dishes.

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"Okay! No more mister knive guy!"

- Jim West, Wild Wild West

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

I think that pic is a little low res to see what style of deflector is used.

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Tom: Which Excelsior in that picture, and which one in the surplus depot?

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

I just happened to be watching Tears of the Prophets last night, and was studying a scene that was bothering me...after the moon is destroyed, we see two short shots of seperate weapons platforms being whacked.

The first shot featured an Excelsior-class, the Defiant, and two others(probably Mirandas).
The second and more important shot showed a Galaxy-class (using it's torp launchers at last, thank God) and some other ship, underneath the Galaxy and slightly to the right, firing torps at another platform.

The shot continues to pan across the port side of the Galaxy, the small ship falls from view, then comes back into view as the Galaxy passes by entirely.

Would I be correct in thinking that this mystery ship is a Sabre?Ifso, it's considerably smaller that a Miranda, which comes up along near it at the end of the shot. It's also as flat as my jokes.

Anyone got a screenshot of it?

My work here is done.

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The unexplained phenomenon that crippled the U.S.S. Unimpeachable --
Gaseous Anomaly...
What anomalises gaseously.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Just checked the scene (30 times, aaah!) and yes, it is abso a sabre. It should probably be 'bout 30 meters wider, but hey, gifted horse right?

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Hickory Is Nice!!!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Watched another 10 times, to be on the safe side, and discovered a second sabre passing above the galaxy. Boy they are really shooting the works here.

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Hickory Is Nice!!!
(Jem 'Hadar Wash-out)

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Before and after shots. . . 8)

Also, there is another Sabre that appears at the end of this sequence, in almost the exact same trajectory as this Sabre and the Miranda that follows it.

Now, to further muddy the waters, I've been approached by someone who says that the nacelles aren't the only thing wrong with the Encyclopedia's Sabre diagram. He reckons that the deflector is shown as coming down to low, and the rear downward slope of the secondary hull is too deep - it should be more graceful. The picture above from "SofA" certainly does beart this out, somewhat. . . any thoughts?

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Just to illustrate what I mean, now this topic has gone to a second page, here are those two images again. . .

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

Son of a...

Well done, First. That was exceptionally quick. Yes, they're the exact two shots I meant.

Nimrod: 30 times? Since it was shown on Sky last March, at least 100 times. It was only this morning that it dawned on me. D'oh!
Congrats on noticing the other Sabre as well; I never even looked at it.

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The unexplained phenomenon that crippled the U.S.S. Unimpeachable --
Gaseous Anomaly...
What anomalises gaseously.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well you see, here in Sweden we don't get much Trek at all. Not until last summer did our Channel 1 air Voyager from the start. Fortunately, we can buy the episodes at a few places "just" two weeks after their release in London, for 30$(that's two episodes). Currently we are at DS9:s "Chimera" and Voyager's "Bliss", so go figure. But I am happy, because I have you guys to listen to.

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Hickory Is Nice!!!
(Jem 'Hadar Wash-out)

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

Well, seeing as our cable went the way of the dodo after VOY's 'In The Flesh', I haven't seen a single episode of Voyager's fifth season since (except for 'Bride of Chaotica', which my brother taped while down at my cousins). Big loss.

HOWEVER, I'm trying my damnedest to get into a house in Galway for my next year in college that has cable. If I miss a single ep of DS9's seventh season, I'll be having my brother reach for the Mauk-To-Vor dagger. To be on the safe side, I've already preordered my copy of 'Penumbra' and 'Till Death Do Us Part', and intend to get all the Final Chapter eps, even if it bankrupts me (which it probably will).

Bludgeoning The Weather, yeah, what about this Sabre craic?

P.S. anyone know DS9 Video 7.9's release date?
AAAAA, as per usual.
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The unexplained phenomenon that crippled the U.S.S. Unimpeachable --
Gaseous Anomaly...
What anomalises gaseously.

[This message has been edited by Gaseous Anomaly (edited August 09, 1999).]