I'm compiling a shuttle comparison chart. Surprisingly, I managed to gather more than 20 schematics from various sources. However, one is still missing: the ST VI shuttle that was later modified to the Jenolan. Any idea where to get one or who could have created one?
BTW, who is it who recently posted the Delta Flyer schematic (I guess it was here, but I'm too lazy to search)? I would like to use it for the chart.
------------------ "The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank!" (Scotty, TOS: "A Taste of Armageddon") Ex Astris Scientia
I like it! But. . . my God! The Galaxy Captain's Yacht?! What on Earth is that? And are you sure about the size of the Type-10, it doesn't look right. And isn't the Peregrine actually the Academy trainer? Either way, there exists a schematic of the other fighter seen in "SofA" which really needs to be included here.
------------------ "Wait a minute - this isn't the Monsterometer, it's the Frog Exaggerator!"
- Professor Frink
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Great job on the chart. We've never really discussed these vehicles to the extent of starships, and now might actually be the time for that. A few questions:
1) How did you derive the size of the sub-impulse raider? It certainly makes sense, since the craft boarded by Dax and Kira was much smaller than Doug Drexler's 20+ meters. I've been waiting for some screencaps of the actual set to change the figure in my list.
2) According to the TMP blueprints, the Vulcan shuttle is 49.7m long. Just a semantic - these figures likely originate from A. Probert himself, furthermore supported by the fact that 49.7 meters converts to exactly 163 feet.
3) Rick Sternbach is thinking of scaling the Delta Flyer up to 75-80 feet, nothing definite but worth discussion. Here's the reasoning:
"The problem is fitting a cabin cruiser interior to a rowboat exterior, essentially. The producers wanted a 50' long DF, and I think it has to be more like 75-80' (more like a runabout length), based on the VFX shots, otherwise pieces of the aft lab module stick out into the cold dark vaccuum of space. In "Timeless," I think the tube with Seven's body must have been hangin' outside (not that she'd notice).
Rick"
4) How did you determine the size of the Type-10? I would certainly love it if it were 6m long - do you know which interior set was reused for the shuttle?
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
I've been talking with many people about the Delta Flyer recently, and the only way it fits is if it's around 23 metres in length.
But then the cockpit set doesn't match the external view. But if it's smaller, so to match the cockpit set, then there's not enough room for the stasis chamber.
According to the DS9 Technical Manual, I believe the type-10 shuttle is around 9.5 metres long (a figure which is probably the only trustworthy one in the book). I'll have to check.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
First One: The craft shown is the Attack Fighter from Sacrifice of Angels, etc. The Encyclopedia is wrong in calling it the Academy Trainer (which really looked quite different). And Sternbach said that as far as he's concerned the Attack Fighter is the Peregrine.
Bernd could add the real Academy Trainer to the chart, and Ro's small Maquis Raider.
------------------ -->Identity Crisis<--
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
Yeah, this is the one I mean:
- This should definitely be on the list, IMO. And. . . steve.pugh.net? 8)
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
That one is on the chart. It's the same as the one in the top right labeled Peregrine. So what's your point?
And, yeah steve.pugh.net, cheaper and less work than registering my own domain name.
------------------ -->Identity Crisis<--
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
The problem with having the Type-10 at 9.5m is that it wont fit through the bay opening if the Defiant is only 120m long. They didn't show much of the Type-10 interior but it did look tight.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Wasn't the Attack Fighter about 30m long??
------------------ "Okay! No more mister knive guy!"
- Jim West, Wild Wild West
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
The smaller attack-fighter/Peregrine is ~25m, I think.
This might be the place to point out that Chakotay's raider works out to 44m O.L. (or 1/2 VFX size), using the width of the pilots' two-window port as a reference.
Here's how I did it. The port is only visible in the final ramming scene, and like the rest of the cockpit, it very much resembles the runabout interior (probably a reuse of the set). Great, now if I could only find it on the Fact Files Maquis front view...IT'S THERE, even on the actual model on page 215 of TNG: The Continuing Mission. Perfect.
The rest was a simple matter: get the size of the port on a runabout, use it to determine the overall size using Fact Files schematics.
Boris
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited August 17, 1999).]
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Some annotations:
Galaxy captain's yacht: The TNGTM says it's only 10m by 18m, but this is impossible, unless the elliptical thing underneath the Galaxy saucer is not the complete captain's yacht, but only a hatch which coincidentally looks like the yacht itself. So I get 42m x 23m for the yacht. The chart shows the side view, considering the supposed flight orientation of the ellipsoid.
Type 10: This is a compromise, of course, taking into account the outside and inside views from "Sound of her Voice" and a Defiant length of 120m. I don't trust the shuttlebay sketch in the DS9TM where the shuttle is almost as long as the hatch diameter.
Vulcan shuttle: The Fact Files say it's 48m.
Peregrine: I reduced the size to 20m, because when I compared it to the other small spacecraft, the cockpit would have been huge at 30m.
Academy trainer: I'm waiting for a schematic. Currently the only suited reference image is on Steve's site.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Delta Flyer: 5.5m tall in the shuttlebay scene in "Extreme Risk". Since the suttlebay doors of Voyager are 5.5m tall as well, I scaled down the DF's height a little bit. Assuming that Black Knight's proportions are correct, I get a length of 17m. Maybe the inside looks larger than the outside, but in my experience the interior size is often overestimated.
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Bernd: Rick Sternbach confirmed the mistake in the Yacht measurements a while ago - he basically measured out 1/2 of the ellipse and forgot to multiply everything by two.
As for the Type-10, we really need to see what the interior looks like. Note that the 9.64m length in the DS9TM would fit the fact that most shuttles have been 2-3 meters tall - have you tried putting people inside the diagrams to see what answer you'd get? (Actually, I'll try that one again, since the Defiant my favorite...). Need interior pics/reports, though - what set could it have reused?
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
I didn't think Voyager's shuttlebay doors were over a deck tall.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
At 6m the Type-10 top view compares well to the Defiant-pod top view at 4.5m. The Type-10 cant be longer than 6m if the Defiant is 120m. They really didn't show much of the interior set (probably on purpose). Maybe the Type-10 is actually the most advanced pod, rather than being a proper shuttle.
Side note: In the DS9TM it says that the pod hasn't got warp engines. In 'The Search' the pod must have travelled a long way from the Defiant to the Founder Homeworld. It would have taken forever without warp.
The Voyager shuttlebay door is roughly 1.5 decks tall.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OK, it'd prollay be too hard but what about all the shuttles we see landing on Veridian III in Star Trek: Generations!?!
and also the Toran Class Klingon Shuttle seen in 'Gambit Part II' - I just thought of this after seeing the rom-about
NICE chart BTW!
------------------ "All is full of love, all around you" - Bj�rk
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
All the shuttles from Generations are represented, as far as I can tell. Even the upside down Sydney. (Or right side up shuttle, depending upon your point of view.)
------------------ "Hey Mr. Boo, fly away home. Your house is so lovely, your children so nice." -- Hello (The Band)
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
The blue shuttle from "Generations" is the orbital shuttle in my chart, unless I get to see a close shot that shows more differnces than just another color.
I think I will include the Toron shuttlecraft in the next update, probably also the Ferengi shuttle.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
The Peregrine is about 31m, actually... that's not a single-person cockpit but what appeared to be a redress of the shuttlepod set.
And the Type-10's too damn small at 6m, ignoring The Amazing Shrinking Defiant altogether.
*grumbles at Lee's Peregrine comments* And I thought I'd trained all you old hands....
------------------ "You're not quite evil enough. You're semi-evil. You're quasi-evil. You're the margarine of evil. You're the Diet Coke of evil, just one calorie, not evil enough." -The good Doctor and his son, Scot
Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :
Is it just me or does the picture seem kind of fuzzy when it pulls up? Not the crispness of the other two starship pictures.
------------------ "Victory is Life!"
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
The Sovereign captain's yacht and the Peregrine had to be scaled up, up so these two look fuzzy. If this applies to the other ones as well, then it was probably the connection that was reset before the end of the data transfer. I know sometimes this happens repeatedly, even if you press "reload".
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Well issue 6 of The Magazine just came out and again, no Delta Flyer section. Too bad. The diagram and information would help with your shuttlecraft chart.
Maybe I'm relieved for now. If they settle on a size for the DF it could be taller than the shuttlebay door. Were there any ship diagrams or information in the latest issue?
Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :
Well I viewed it again from my browser at work and it looks perfect. I was especially glad to have nice side-view pics of the Kazon "torpedo" and the STVI shuttle. You always seem to have pics that no one else does. You don't by any chance have a fact files picture of the Bajoran transport from DS9?
------------------ "Victory is Life!"
Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :
edited to remove double post ------------------ "Victory is Life!"
[This message has been edited by Galen (edited August 29, 1999).]
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Galen: You mean the Academy trainer? I'm interested to see it. You have a size estimation too?
I don't have the Bajoran ship, but I'm sure it will be in the Fact Files.
[This message has been edited by Galen (edited August 29, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Galen (edited August 29, 1999).]
Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :
another edited post ------------------ "Victory is Life!"
[This message has been edited by Galen (edited August 29, 1999).]
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
The schematic is really fine, and it seems to suit the reference photo. Provided I can conceive a reasonable length, may I use it for the next edition of the shuttle chart?
Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :
Go ahead and use it. After all I have enough of your pictures on my hard drive.
------------------ "Victory is Life!"
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I think the Academy trainer craft has to be very small, because there is not much inside. Speaking from how crammed the impulse reactor and other components (sensor, computer) are in a type-15 shuttle, there is no reason to waste much room in the trainer craft, as opposed to the ancient technology in the Bajoran sub-impulse raider. It might have a more powerful impulse engine though, since it is supoosed to do complicated maneuvers with higher acceleration than a shuttle. It is also well-suited for atmospheric flight, as indicated by its shape. I will try to find a similar fighter aircraft and compare it to the trainer craft.
