In tonight's VGR episode, "Survival Instinct", 3 Borg Drones from Seven's former Unimatrix are briefly detached from the Borg in a Borg Sphere crash. While seperated, they begin to remember their past lives. The one female of the Borg, first name Milka (she also stated her middle and last name, but I didn't catch it) said she was an engineer during the night watch on the USS Excalibur. Apparently, the Excalibur ran into a lone Borg vessel. This relates to the topic concerning the USS Endeavour, and wether or not she was at Wolf 359. Most believe that the Endeavour was at Wolf 359, because there aren't any other Borg incidents known. But, this seems to go against that theory, since the Excalibur was not at Wolf 359 (since she was seen in "Redemption"), therefore, the Excalibur ran into the Borg somewhere else. The same most likely applies to the Endeavour
------------------ "I am Sci-Fi" -The 359
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Are we sure it was the USS Excalibur, and not just a Federation ship called the Excalibur?
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I firmly believe that the entire Star Trek universe exists only to make sure we continue to appreciate Star Wars and Babylon 5." - Andy Ihnatko
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Ah bloody hell, you HAVE to get technical on me. I believe she said 'USS Excalibur'. Also, how could there be an SS Excalibur around when the USS Excalibur has been around for, what, 50 some years?
------------------ "I am Sci-Fi" -The 359
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
I don't think I remember hearing USS, but she did add at the end that it's nice to be back on a Federation starship.
The assimilation certainly took place prior to 2368 when the crash-landing occured; was it right after "Redemption" (late 2367/early 2368)? Did the Excalibur encounter a Borg vessel before that and perhaps managed to escape? (as in the crew member was on an away team?)
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited September 29, 1999).]
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Why does the appearance of the Excalibur in "Redemption" mean that she wasn't at 359? She could have escaped. We know that the number of ships that escaped is equal to the number of Klingon ships involved plus one (presuming Hanson gave exact figures). So for all we know, there could be half a dozen survivors, including the Excalabur, the Endevour, AND the Awahnee.
------------------ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think the problem is assigning too many survivors to what was supposed to be the most devestating battle Starfleet had ever fought. If you can even call it a battle. Sure, the Seventh Fleet got hit pretty hard, but we can assume that they took out at least a few Dominion ships with them. Starfleet essentially did nothing to the Borg at Wolf 359.
At any rate, this does complicate things for my Borg timeline.
------------------ I do indeed and shall continue Dispatch the shiftless man to points beyond -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
Well, one thing's for sure, this Excalibur isn't the Constitution Class one. But at any rate, what the hell is going on now? Couldn't the entry about the captain of the Endeavour be about the time of TNG's episode "Descent?" And also, in "First Contact," it was mentioned that the Borg began another attack on the Federation, I think... And as for the USS Ahwahnee, I just looked at the tachyon detection grid picture in the Encyclopedia II, and the Ahwahnee that was there has the registry of NCC-71620, but there is no freakin' entry of this ship in the hardcover encyclopedia!!! So I'm just going to believe that the Ahwahnee was the only ship to survive Wolf 359, the Endeavour encountered a Borg ship sometime after Wolf 359 and "First Contact," and the Excalibur was attacked by a Borg ship after "Redeption." But that remains to be true until something is mentioned onscreen that says otherwise.
------------------ "All you people, can't you see, can't you see How your love's affecting our reality Everytime we're down You can make it right And that makes you larger than life"
-Backstreet Boys
Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :
There is evidence from TNG which suggests tha the Borg were exploring Federation space after the Battle of Wolf 359. The episodes are "I, Borg" and "Descent". The USS Excalibur may have come across a scout ship and was assimilated after early 2368. And the USS Endeavor may have encountered the Borg between 2367 and 2371 and survived. And one other point to consider-the Borg were active in Federation space in 2363 [the USS Tombaugh].
A possible timeline- 2265 Guinan's world attacked. 2269 A planet in the Archanis system is attacked. The Klingons were considered than dismissed as the possible attackers. This I feel may be the earliest known attack on a Federation world by a Borg force. The Klingon Empire is near Borg space and the Borg are known to cross through Klingon and Romulan territory to fight the Federation. 2270 to 2355 There are rumors about the Borg, much like the Ferengi. The Federation science council gives permission for a single ship to determine the validity of these rumors. Ship is the USS Raven. 2363 The USS Tombaugh is attacked by the Borg. [And this ship is missing from the encyclopeda.] 2364 Borg attack bases along the Federation and Romulan neutral zone. 2365 The USS Enterprise D encounters the Borg. 2367 Battle of Wolf 359 2367 to 2376 Borg ships mapped Federation space for possible "colonization". The USS Excalibur and the USS Endeavor encounter Borg scouts. 2373 Battle of the Typhon Expanse and subsequently Earth
------------------
takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
An Engineer on the night watch. . . there must be some significance in that. Maybe the Excalibur was attacked at night, and drones were beamed on board at key locations such as Engineering. They assimilated a few crew before being repulsed.
If this ship had been at Wolf 359, then it would have been at full alert status. She would have been on duty or on standby. And she would have said she was assimilated at Wolf 359, not blathered on about the joys of the swing shift. . .
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
Hmm, the Excalibur. Could this be a tie-in with the New Frontier books? There was a lot of talk about Night Shifts in the Captain Calhoun entry in the Captain's Table series.
------------------ -->Identity Crisis<--
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Does it become clear from the dialogue if the ship itself survived the Borg attack or is this only speculation?
I was hopeing Voyager wouldn't do any Borg eps this year.
------------------ Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx
Posted by Sirmaniac on :
Bernd: The episode was rather vague as to exact details of what happened. However Peter David, author of the New Frontier books, got confirmation from the makers of the shows that they weren't going to do anything with U.S.S. Excalibur that would interfere with his stories (If you don't know, New Frontier is about the Ambassador-class Excalibur and crew).
In fact, in "You Are Cordially Invited . . .," you might have noted the mention of Captain Shelby. Well, when written, this line was supposed to refer to Shelby of "Best of Both Worlds" fame. Rick Berman (I believe it was) said later that it must not have been because they made an agreement with Peter David saying they wouldn't use Shelby in any manner that conflicts with her being the XO for Excalibur.
So, if the writers and producers of the show keep their end of the agreement, Excalibur survived intact. Incidently, it is interesting to note, that according to New Frontier, Excalibur had just been refit after actions taking place during the Borg attack shown in First Contact. Of course, it would be weird for Excalibur to have the night shift in charge in the middle of a Borg attack, so I agree with The First One there. Mind you, I'm definitely not saying the writers of Voyager are taking these books as canon. I believe it was probably wild coincidence. It's just cool that they work so well together. And that would go along with ID Crisis' speculation about New Frontier.
It's a rather interesting way the widely-agreed-upon non-canon can have an effect on the show.
[This message has been edited by Sirmaniac (edited September 30, 1999).]
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Another example of Ron Moore-style "name dropping."
I seriously doubt it's a NF reference. Maybe a slight tip of the hat. Maybe.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I believe Jadzia refered to her friend Shelby as 'he' somewhere.
------------------ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
The only Shelbys I recall were the one from "BoBW" and the teaser for "You Are Cordially Invited..."
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
The latest NF book (the one that was part of the "Double Helix" crossover) I believe actually mentions the "two Shelbys" and the confusion that it momentarily caused the Commander.
------------------ "We shall not yield to you, nor to any man." -- Freak, The Mighty.
Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :
Continuity will eat itself.
There's plenty of ships lost by the Feds where they had no idea what happened to them. Many could have been Borg victims.
Of course, with their conduits and all, the Borg could send fifty cubes to take Earth in a month or two, and nobody could stop them. Apparently paranoid caution is a trait of a collective mind!
------------------ "FOOLS! Will I have to kill them ALL?!?!"
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
There is a reasonable explanation on why the Borg have never sent more than one cube to Earth or even to Federation Space, it's because the people at the Star Trek franchise want to milk out as much money and stories as they can from the Borg.
------------------ "All you people, can't you see, can't you see How your love's affecting our reality Everytime we're down You can make it right And that makes you larger than life"
