Ok, today I ran across a comic shop in the middle of nowhere with crates full of old Star Trek memorabilia. I found a weird black-hard-cover $100 Star Fleet Technical Manual, two $75 Concordances (originals), a bunch of novels, Best of Trek 3, magazines...and most interesting of all, the Star Trek III story treatment, "Return to Genesis", dated September 1982.
Yes, the Bird of Prey was originally a Romulan ship full of Romulans. The Excelsior is described as having hyper-warp drive, which allows speeds in excess of Warp 10. When leaving spacedock, the Enterprise goes to Warp 8 while the Excelsior captain orders Warp 15 (and doesn't succeed, of course...).
I haven't gotten much else out of it, maybe I'll buy it the next time. BTW, according to the Star Trek Phase II series bible in the "Lost Series" book, Warp 8 is the maximum safe speed of the Enterprise that never made it onscreen. This is consistent with various fan books which give speeds as Warp 8 and 12 (emergency).
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited October 02, 1999).]
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Wasn't Kruge supposed to originally steal a Romulan Bird of Prey?
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It's also the source of the speculation that the Bird of Prey, while not of Romulan construction, might have been a product of their short-lived alliance.
At least, I think that's speculated. By more people then me, I mean.
------------------ I do indeed and shall continue Dispatch the shiftless man to points beyond -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Well, that's what the Encyclopedia says, but unless I've missed something in the treatment, it's not the case (or maybe a later draft of the script incorporated the stealing to explain the BoP name). An associate of mine has speculated that the entire Klingon honor thing may be a side effect of this switch - in TOS, it was the Romulans who cared about honor, while to Klingons, "honor is a despicable trait".
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited October 03, 1999).]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Klingons were certainly more pragmatic about it during TOS. Then again, Klingons as a group are always somewhat pragmatic about honor. It's their cultural ideal, but much like humans, they can make a lot of exceptions to it.
At any rate, the Klingons were much more of a cipher in TOS, standing in for the Russians, among others. It wasn't until TNG that they began to be developed as their own species.
------------------ I do indeed and shall continue Dispatch the shiftless man to points beyond -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Being a Slav myself, I can tell you that the new Klingons and Russians have a *lot* in common, right down to their music. But now we're completely off topic
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
*LOL* on this Klingon-Russian comparison
The BoP name is Romulan, of course. I guess that the Romulan reference was dropped at a stage when the BoP model was not yet completed. This explains why it nevertheless looks rather Klingon (thin wings, raised stern and front torpedo launcher like the K't'inga).
Sounds like you have a box full of collecter stuff there.
------------------ Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Well, the Klingons were always pretty much used to represent the Russians until TNG (after which all instances are probably accidental).
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Of course, it also look srather similar to the Romulan BOP, with the wings, the painted feather pattern. It's like a K'Tinga crossed with the original Romulan BOP.
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Y'know, "Bird of Prey" probably wasn't a Romulan name to begin with. It was a Federation name applied to Romulan ships which, appropriately enough, had birds of prey painted on them. One can assume that, when Klingons began producing ships shaped like birds, w/ birds painted on them, the Feds would go ahead and use the same term. "Cruiser" isn't a Klingon or Romulan term, yet it's used for some of their ships. Why not the same for BoP?
------------------ "It'd be a pity if every pencil on Earth suddenly collapsed in on itself and blew everything up." -Krenim, TNO chat, September 30, 1999
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
From the part of the Federation, "BoP" could be a generic term for all starships looking like a bird-of-prey. The official Romulan and Klingon names, respectively, could have a completely different meaning. However, it is possible that "BoP" is the literal translation for both original names. Anyone speak Klingon? I always wanted to know what "B'rel" and "K'Vort" means.
TSN, maybe you wish to edit your posting before Frank gets aware off it
I'm surprised the Romulans don't have their own form of "BoP" in use now. All we ever see are their giant Warbirds. Surely the Roms would build fighter/raider type vessels as well.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
I have one or two ideas about that. Remember that the Romulans are very secretive - they became isolationist for years, people only saw the Warbird for the first time in 2364. They still maintain a Neutral Zone and don't let anyone through it. They ignore said neutral zone whenever they want, but only in force - i.e., with Warbirds. The only times we've seen other ships were shuttles or scout ships, and those were unusual situations. The only time they let a Federation starship - the Bellereophon - into thewir space, you can be sure they kept her away from anything important.
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Well, they have a few runabout-like vessels. And experimental science ships.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Rom mentioned in 'Little Green Men' that 'Quark's Treaure' could out-run a Romulan Interceptor
------------------ "The story..." Londo says, "is not over yet. The story is never over."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Or the Warbird could be such a great design that they don't have many other classes. Alternatively, they could have several classes, they all just happen to look like D'Deredix class Warbirds.
------------------ Cordellia: "Well, does looking at guns make you wanna have sex?" Xander: "I'm seventeen. Looking at linoleum makes me wanna have sex."
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Ok, I returned to the store, and didn't find the outline. I did find something more interesting, though: "Making of the Trek Films". An ILM employee confirms Okuda's statement that the BoP was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship commanded by Klingons. The change to a completely Klingon ship came while the model was being built - I guess that the model crew could have added a few Klingon details at that point, especially since the BoP was built off of sketches and prototypes, rather than detailed blueprints.
Also, the whaling ship from STIV is actually a 140-foot long WWII minesweeper, which the production crew located and refitted a bit.
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
