Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
Ok, today I ran across a comic shop in the middle of nowhere with crates full of old Star Trek memorabilia. I found a weird black-hard-cover $100 Star Fleet Technical Manual, two $75 Concordances (originals), a bunch of novels, Best of Trek 3, magazines...and most interesting of all, the Star Trek III story treatment, "Return to Genesis", dated September 1982.
Yes, the Bird of Prey was originally a Romulan ship full of Romulans. The Excelsior is described as having hyper-warp drive, which allows speeds in excess of Warp 10. When leaving spacedock, the Enterprise goes to Warp 8 while the Excelsior captain orders Warp 15 (and doesn't succeed, of course...).
I haven't gotten much else out of it, maybe I'll buy it the next time. BTW, according to the Star Trek Phase II series bible in the "Lost Series" book, Warp 8 is the maximum safe speed of the Enterprise that never made it onscreen. This is consistent with various fan books which give speeds as Warp 8 and 12 (emergency).
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited October 02, 1999).]
posted
Wasn't Kruge supposed to originally steal a Romulan Bird of Prey?
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
posted
It's also the source of the speculation that the Bird of Prey, while not of Romulan construction, might have been a product of their short-lived alliance.
At least, I think that's speculated. By more people then me, I mean.
------------------ I do indeed and shall continue Dispatch the shiftless man to points beyond -- Soul Coughing
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
Well, that's what the Encyclopedia says, but unless I've missed something in the treatment, it's not the case (or maybe a later draft of the script incorporated the stealing to explain the BoP name). An associate of mine has speculated that the entire Klingon honor thing may be a side effect of this switch - in TOS, it was the Romulans who cared about honor, while to Klingons, "honor is a despicable trait".
Boris
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited October 03, 1999).]
posted
The Klingons were certainly more pragmatic about it during TOS. Then again, Klingons as a group are always somewhat pragmatic about honor. It's their cultural ideal, but much like humans, they can make a lot of exceptions to it.
At any rate, the Klingons were much more of a cipher in TOS, standing in for the Russians, among others. It wasn't until TNG that they began to be developed as their own species.
------------------ I do indeed and shall continue Dispatch the shiftless man to points beyond -- Soul Coughing
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
Being a Slav myself, I can tell you that the new Klingons and Russians have a *lot* in common, right down to their music. But now we're completely off topic
------------------ "Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
The BoP name is Romulan, of course. I guess that the Romulan reference was dropped at a stage when the BoP model was not yet completed. This explains why it nevertheless looks rather Klingon (thin wings, raised stern and front torpedo launcher like the K't'inga).
posted
Well, the Klingons were always pretty much used to represent the Russians until TNG (after which all instances are probably accidental).
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
posted
Of course, it also look srather similar to the Romulan BOP, with the wings, the painted feather pattern. It's like a K'Tinga crossed with the original Romulan BOP.
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
posted
Y'know, "Bird of Prey" probably wasn't a Romulan name to begin with. It was a Federation name applied to Romulan ships which, appropriately enough, had birds of prey painted on them. One can assume that, when Klingons began producing ships shaped like birds, w/ birds painted on them, the Feds would go ahead and use the same term. "Cruiser" isn't a Klingon or Romulan term, yet it's used for some of their ships. Why not the same for BoP?
------------------ "It'd be a pity if every pencil on Earth suddenly collapsed in on itself and blew everything up." -Krenim, TNO chat, September 30, 1999
posted
From the part of the Federation, "BoP" could be a generic term for all starships looking like a bird-of-prey. The official Romulan and Klingon names, respectively, could have a completely different meaning. However, it is possible that "BoP" is the literal translation for both original names. Anyone speak Klingon? I always wanted to know what "B'rel" and "K'Vort" means.
TSN, maybe you wish to edit your posting before Frank gets aware off it
posted
I'm surprised the Romulans don't have their own form of "BoP" in use now. All we ever see are their giant Warbirds. Surely the Roms would build fighter/raider type vessels as well.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
I have one or two ideas about that. Remember that the Romulans are very secretive - they became isolationist for years, people only saw the Warbird for the first time in 2364. They still maintain a Neutral Zone and don't let anyone through it. They ignore said neutral zone whenever they want, but only in force - i.e., with Warbirds. The only times we've seen other ships were shuttles or scout ships, and those were unusual situations. The only time they let a Federation starship - the Bellereophon - into thewir space, you can be sure they kept her away from anything important.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, they have a few runabout-like vessels. And experimental science ships.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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