Flare Sci-Fi Forums: The Forever Bird-of-Prey

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

The Klingons don't seem to be that fond of new starships. They still use the old B'rel Bird-of-Prey's.
How are they thinking to win from the newer Federation classes like the Defiant an Steamrunner. Don't you think they need a better design to replace the old BoP's?

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"There will be an answer, let it be..."
Motto of the USS Sutherland

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Maybe the Bird-of-Prey is one of those designs that lends itself to easy upgrades without much external modification. It's still in service because the basic design is good, and whenever new technology becomes available (thus far, anyhow) it's easily installed within the existing hull. Newer ships of the same basic design are simply manufactured with the newer equipment in place.

Since the Klingons seem to prefer their ships to remain rather spartan inside, this suggests that the newer equipment, if smaller than the equipment it replaces, allows them to add even more capability to the ship without diminishing the internal volume required for crew quarters, bridge, etc. Otherwise, these vessels would be much roomier inside than they are (or at least roomier than they seem, as seen in the few episodes where we are allowed to see inside them).

--Baloo

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"You got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there."
--Yogi Berra
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Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

Uh, Prakesh, the Excelsiors, Mirandas, and Oberths are just as old as the Birds-of-Prey, and the Feds still use them in large numbers

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey

Posted by Striker on :

I agree, I'm sure the BoP's are easily upgradable. I would like to see some new Klingon designs though. I mean, there seems to be a new Starfleet every fricken week. They could put some stock into making a new Klingon or Romulan design. I would much rather see one of them than a new Starfleet design.

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-Striker
kob.diabloii.net

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Thanks Matt, I was gonna say that too. We first saw the bird-of-prey in ST:III right? Same time we saw the Excelsior and Oberth.

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Hobbes: "...and a volume control."
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, registry numbers indicate that the Oberth is peobably much older even than that, but the Excelsior yes.

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Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him to use the 'net, and he won't bother you for weeks.

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

Like Striker wrote, we definately need a new Romulan design. All they have is the Warbird (awesome ship

) but the Klingons have got four active designs - more than every other alien. The Roms need something comparable to the BoP, Defiant, and Jemmy bug. And I don't mean that crappy scout/science vessel either.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by Striker on :

I was thinking that Romulans could use another huge ship. Something that not only looks intimatating but actually is. The Klingons could use a new Bird of Prey class.

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-Striker
kob.diabloii.net

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I wan't to see a Romulan Interceptor that Rom mentioned in "Little Green Men".

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"Its a CLOCK!" - Sisko, "Dramatis Personae" DS9.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

And call me weird or worse, but I want to see freighters! That, and tankers. Up close.

All the Trek races could use a larger variety of support vessels. One lousy freighter design for the Feds and their hundred-plus ship classes (okay, two if we count the holoship as a freighter). One proper-sized freighter for Cardassians, one for Klingons (the Cardassian one with extra parts, out of scale and painted green...), and plenty of those assorted civilian "freighters" that could probably haul half a tribble if it wasn't a very big one. And no freighter whatsoever for Romulans.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I would like to see some Federation civilian passenger ships. Like a cruiseship in 24th-century style.
Or a huge colonization-vessel with room for hundreds of settlers and their equipment.

PS: Is there any progress in the artificial wormhole thing seen in one DS9 episode (I don't remember all the episode titles)?

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"There will be an answer, let it be..."
Motto of the USS Sutherland

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

That was in "Rejoined", Prakesh.

Sometimes I just can't help being a smart alec.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, if TPTB decide to have Voyager go through Rommie space for a while on their way back, perhaps they'll take the opportunity to show us some new Romulan ships...

*a brief pause, then the whole Forum bursts into laughter*

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Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him to use the 'net, and he won't bother you for weeks.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Just a thought Prakesh, the Steamrunner is not a brand new ship class. Registry numbers suggest it's been around for awhile.

Keep in mind that Starfleet designs different ships for different mission profiles: exploration, science, colonization, etc. Klingon ships have one basic function, kicking butt! The ships they have can do that. They don't need to design a bunch of other kind of ships. Though I agree that there are probably a few more out there that we haven't seen yet.

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"Resolve and thou art free."

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

(No real $$$)

Actually, we all know Voyager runs from the Delta Quadrant straight into the Alpha Quadrant, and the first familiar planet will be Earth.

My wish list:
-Romulan 500m ship
-Romulan freighter
-new small Klingon ship, something like Bop meets Vor'cha and Defiant
-a real Klingon freighter
-a real Klingon shuttle
-Starfleet tanker
-Federation starcruiser

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"Naomi Wildman, sub-unit of Ensign Samantha Wildman, state your intentions." (VOY: "Infinite Regress")

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I agree with Bernd on the current shipbuilding needs of the Romulan Star Empire, but I think there is a certain fascination in the way Klingons stick to old things. The BoP works like the bat'leth as a symbol of Klingon fighting tradition. I expect to see plenty of those even if a new small ship type is introduced...

And I sort of like the freighter modified from the Cardassian one. It's one of the biggest cargo haulers in all of Trek, judging by the comparisons with the Rotarran... It's so annoying to see warships consistently portrayed as larger than freighters.

But before we get a real Klingon shuttle (preferably at least a bit remniscent of the Toron class), we need to get a real Klingon shuttlebay! If the smallest BoP can carry two whales, two side-by-side shuttles shouldn't be much of a problem either. But somebody has to decide where the bay doors are on the models.

And I'd finally like to find out who built the "merchantman" ship introduced in STIII. It's been shown operated at least by Klingons the Cardassians and the Altec, and variants have been seen on the Sheliak and the raiders from "The Host". Somebody must be the primary manufacturer who sells the ship to others - the curving front hull and whiskers are somewhat similar to the lines of the Cardassian Hideki, but would a Cardassian ship be available at the time of STIII?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I don't think a date for first contact with the Cardassians has ever been nailed down.

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"I wish that everything went just as I wish everything would go."
--
John Linnell

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Even if the Feds had contacted Cardassia prior to STIII, the relations probably weren't cordial enough for Feds to operate Cardassian-built ships (even if the Feds were some sort of shady characters aiding a Klingon spy). Even if there was no political animosity, why would the freighter buyer have chosen a design from a newly encountered race over trusty old near-Earth designs? But the Cardassians could easily have purchased a Federation design just because it was more high-tech than their own ships.

If the ship is a Klingon design, then why are the Feds using it? It may be cheaper and better than Fed equivalents, but it's also a political statement that might make life difficult for the crew during those years of cold war. A Cardassian ship in Fed hands at that time would be less of a political affront.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Anyone notice that the Merchantman from ST:III looks vaguely Ferengi - maybe the Ferengi influence was moving faster then their actual presence.

Andrew

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"Its a CLOCK!" - Sisko, "Dramatis Personae" DS9.

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I don't like the Merchantman very much. Its hull rips make it it look quite bizarre, it doesn't suit any of the known Trek civilizations. Somehow it doesn't look like a Trek ship at all.

Merchantman: http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/scans/merchantman-side.gif

Sheliak modification: http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/scans/sheliak.jpg

Of course, it was among the first ships built by ILM, and their philosophy was to give the ships countless external features including hull corrosion and damages. The only familiar element is the bridge, and here we have a problem. The BoP is supposed to be 110m. There is one scene when the BoP turns away from the Merchantman to begin the attack when the BoP is seen behind the MM, and the latter appears to be only about runabout-sized. This doesn't comply with the ship's very complicated external structure and the lack of windows and doors, and the bridge couldn't be a bridge. It would be even worse if the BoP was 60m as Boris has suggested. If the ILM people messed something up then it was this scene.

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"Naomi Wildman, sub-unit of Ensign Samantha Wildman, state your intentions." (VOY: "Infinite Regress")

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I like the second pic... It looks as if it could have two bridges

Which is the warp nacelles? the 'pods' at the bottom - or the grill on the top...

the short grill looks vaguely Oberth Class nacelles...

Andrew

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"Its a CLOCK!" - Sisko, "Dramatis Personae" DS9.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

The top view in the 2nd pic looks a bit like an old-fashioned Cardie design, especially the 'blades', just like Galor and Keldon. Aren't those two big impulse engines at the back? And isn't that some kind of weapon in the keel?

It could also be a ship constructed of parts of other ships..

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"There will be an answer, let it be..."
Motto of the USS Sutherland

Posted by Lakedaemonian on :

I have had a little metal model of that freighter for at least 15 years. I can't remember anymore if it was for starfleet battles or some other board game.
If it was for a different ship combat game, that would help explain why it doesn't look very "trek". It doesn't seem to have any warp nacelles, just four huge engines in the rear that allways reminded me more of the star wars type ships.

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

The reason the Klingons havent developed a new ships is because of the their lack of resources remeber ST:6

Spock said that the Klingon Empire had a good 50 years left to her if the Federation didnt help , and of course the federation Started their alliance with the Kilngons and helped keep them afloat , maybe the Klingons decided just to keep refitting their current ships like the Vorcha , and the B'rel Class Bird of Prey so they can save some of their resources for building ships like the Negh'Var and maybe repairing Vorchas , Maybe now that they might have discovered more resources on the worlds they have taken from the Dominion maybe they will use those to replace the BoPs they lost during the war and who knows maybe they will begin building new ships .

As for the Rommies , i think that they have developed many new designs , they just havent brought them out yet.

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[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited December 26, 1999).]