This is topic Sovereign class in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Marko Latin on :
 
I could use some info on the sovereign class' firepower and other stats that battles depend on...
And now many ships it could take on and win...

As what is the sovereign class registered? Dreadnought? Warship? Heavy Cruiser?

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Dream on...in the end...dreams are everything...

 

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
 
The Sovereign is an Explorer. (Blinks, smirks, and runs for cover.)

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Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
The Sovereign is a Command Cruiser. She has 5 torpedo launchers, 12 Type-X Phaser strips, and could probably take on half the starship classes we know.

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey


 

Posted by Striker on :
 
IMO, The Soverign could probably take any of the Major Power's classes out there one on one. It would have a tough time with a Defiant, just because it's so tough and manuverable.

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-Striker
kob.diabloii.net
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
Well, let's evaluate what we know about the Ent-E:

1) There appear to be no families aboard.
2) The ship is commanded by Picard, a diplomatic-type guy, and it was serving as a sort of diplomatic ship at the beginning of Insurrection
3) During the Dominion war, it didn't seem to be in any battles, nor was it defending anything
4) The ship still appears to be heavily armed and armored, seemingly doing well against the Borg ship attack in FC, and even apparently dropping its shields for a short while when beaming over the Defiant crew (although it was probably out of range of damage at that point).

I think the Sovereign is meant to be used to "keep the peace," so to speak (like SeaQuest). It's among the biggest-looking Starfleet ships, and can defend itself if a conflict arises, so it operates in potential problem areas. However, I guess it generally isn't meant to enter combat, unless the Ent-E is the exception instead of the rule. Sovereigns might be used as a command ship for planetary defense, too...well-defended, but not actually meant to engage in combat directly.

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Frank's Home Page
"Ou tou kratountos h� polis nomizetai" - Creon
 

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :
 
Amen, Frankie.

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
 

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
 
A lot of Jemmie fighters could take on that thing. They're just too small and too fast to catch. Someone said that if the Defiant took the Enterprise E head on, of course the Defiant could win. The Enterprise-E is simply too big of a target to miss.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation
 

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
*charges Frank a royalty for using his seaQuest analogy*

IMHO, though, she's an Explorer. No real evidence to support this, but I just like the idea..

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"Is this real life? Is this just fantasy?"
-Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody

 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
The SeaQuest thing is Tom's, correct.

And the Sovereign probably isn't meant to do the same thing as the Galaxy.

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Frank's Home Page
"Ou tou kratountos h� polis nomizetai" - Creon

[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited February 12, 2000).]
 

Posted by Saboc on :
 
How many Sover. vessels are there now? I personally think that the USS Sovereign becomes the Enterprise.

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Spend all your time waiting for a second chance, a break that would make it ok...


 

Posted by Saboc on :
 
By the way, why is it that everytime a new Enteprise is introduced, they make it bigger. (in this case, longer...) Size does not matter...(well, some of the times...)
I think that two Defiant and a Sabre can overtake the new Enterprise.

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"The Founder is wise in all things..."
"We live to serve the Founders..."
 

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
I don't think smaller ships have that much of an advantage against a big one. Starfleet ships simply don't miss, not even against small and maneuverable opponents.

What it boils down to is how much pounding the shields can take. If it's just one or two shots, and big and small ships deliver *roughly* similar shots, then the numerous small ones always win, with their first volley. If it's dozens of shots, then the large one has enough time to fire on all the small ones and ward them off her hide. And we have VERY seldom seen ships succumb to just one or two shots when the shields are up.

I do think a smaller Enterprise would be nice for a change, too. But if they make it too small, then it logically has to be optimized for some specific mission; and that limits the possibilities in future movies. A happy medium could probably be found, tho.

As for what I think of the role of the E-E: she could be the forerunner for a new generation of "workhorses" like the Excelsiors or earlier Constitutions. It's just that she will stay somewhat "experimental" for the first few years before Starfleet decides to risk mass production. And in the meantime, the ship is tried out in a wide variety of roles, so that its strengths and weaknesses can be found.

If the ship was built for a given narrow mission profile from the beginning, she wouldn't be wasting her time on other mission types. And series production would already have begun, too. She *could* be a new explorer, but I wager the Galaxies and Nebulas still suffice in that role for a couple of decades. An Excelsior-succeeding jack-of-all-trades would be a "poor man's explorer" that excels in no mission but does them all; a true explorer like a Galaxy would be so overengineered that she does excel in all missions, the only drawback being the huge costs of operating her.

Timo Saloniemi
 

Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :
 
I have some stats on this...
But they're at home and I'm at university (d'oh!)
I'm going home tomorrow and if I get a modem for Xmas as promised, I will post them on here soon, else you'll have to wait til January. The stats are canon and were originally emailed to me by Roy Firestone of the (sadly demised) Galactic Engineers' Concordance...

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Saboc: Ships don't change names without being decommissioned or without special dispensation from Command. The Sovereign is the Sovereign, the Enterprise is the Enterprise. There are probably at least two more by now.

Also, keep in mind that the Enterprise is the Federation Flagship. It should be the biggest and the best in the fleet.

The one part about this tradition that I don't understand is that after the destruction of the Ent C, Starfleet went about 20 years without an Enterprise in the Fleet. I guess that's another thread though.

As far as what the Ent. E was doing during the Dommie war beside hosting delegations of Fish People, I believe there is a book or series of books out called the Dominion War that has that info. Not canon, but until something better surfaces, why not? There's also a book called Ship of the Line that has the Ent E in it as well as Capt. Bateson.

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"Resolve and thou art free."

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 20, 1999).]
 

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
Wait...doesn't Roy Firestone work for ESPN?

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey

[This message has been edited by The359 (edited December 20, 1999).]
 

Posted by grb on :
 
Well, why isn't the Soveirn just a more heavily armed version of an explorer? With all the conflist that's been going on in the quadrant in that past decade, starfleet proabably developed a more powerful explorere that could defend itself during these conflicts. For example, a galaxy would be over powered by a romulan warbird. The soverign, if it encountered a warbird on a deep space mission, could defend itself, and even defeat the warbird. The Sovering isn't just some dimplomatic cruiser or even command ship, but is a multi-mission explorere, like the galxy, with perhaps slightly downsized scientific facilities and oversixed weapons systems.

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"Obviously you refuse to cooperate with me. Obviously you have no discipline to kepp the mouth shut. Obviously you don't. Let's try it that way, then you might get the hint. How many more minutes are we going to waste asking you not to talk? How many more!?!"-a recording of my disciplined (the dean is outright scary) Catholic school Geometry teacher, available on the internet.
 

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :
 
Wait a second....The Enterprise-E is NOT the Federation's flagship. Nowhere has it said this, and just because the Ent-D was, doens't mean the new one is too.

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited December 20, 1999).]
 

Posted by Saboc on :
 
I agree with Ultra Magnus. And besides, it would be nice to have other starships to be the flagship for a while. I'm sick of the Enterprise being the flagship for so long...

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"The Founder is wise in all things..."
"We live to serve the Founders..."
 

Posted by Lt. Tom on :
 
My 0.02 credits...

The Sovereign is meant to be an Excelsior-style jack of all trades that departs from the Excelsior-Ambassador-Galaxy lineage by focusing more on "keeping the peace" than scientific study. This is consistent with Starfleet's trend toward smaller, more potent vessels.

IMHO, the Sovereign's primary role can be summed up as "speak softly and carry a big stick". She's not designed for combat, but she's more than capable of holding her own. You'd think twice before pulling any stunts with one around. Once again, Timo's summed things up pretty well.
 

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
 
I mean no dis, Saboc, but how can you be "sick" of that? Does it matter that much to you? I'm sorry, it just sounds SO funny!
Think, someone sitting on the bus, hissing "Damn that Enterprise for being the flagship!"
Again, no offence, anything I read at this point sounds funny, 'cause I'm going to work in three hours and I haven't slept. At all. *Centuwion, thwow me to the fwoow!*

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-You are crazy.
-I thought I was pisces.


 

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
 
They may have never confirmed that the Ent-E is the flaghip but until I hear otherwise that's what I'm gonna assume.

Also, I agree that the Sovereign-class seems like more of a successor to the Excelsior-class than anything else.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Well, lets see here. The original Ent was the flagship. The Ent A was the flagship. All other ships named Enterprise have kept the registry NCC-1701 with a rising suffix. This is a tradition that has yet to be seen in any other cannon ships (with the exception of the Relativity which I'm not sure I believe yet). This tradition has to mean something. It's always seemed fairly obvious to me that this tradition is the way it is because the Enterprise has a tradition of being the Flagship!! After all, Starfleet totally redesigned its "corporate identity" around the Enterprise's logo and has kept that basic look for over almost a century.

I think the Enterprise is the flagship and will be for the forseeable future. Starfleet is full of tradition and I don't really think it's anything to get sick over.

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"Resolve and thou art free."
 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
Tradition or not, there is still a gap of about 20 years in between the Ent-C and Ent-D.
I myself think that because the Ent-C was suddenly destroyed, they didn't have a suitable follow-up at that time...

As for the Enterprise being the Flagship, are you all sure that there was no mentioning of it in any way in either First Contact or Insurrection??

BTW: A smaller ship does not automatically mean it can do less than a bigger ship. The Ent-D may have a larger internal volume, but the Ent-E has:
1: No families.
2: More advanced, and almost sertainly smaller equipment.
Just something to think about when you compare them...

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Life on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free annual trip around the sun!

(-=\V/=-)

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited December 21, 1999).]
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
They said in FC that she was the most advanced ship in the fleet, but didn't specifically call her the flagship. The flagship is not a combat title or indication of how powerful the ship is. Flagship is more of diplomatic/ political title. The flagship is the representative of an organization. This being the case, It's usually the best that organization ahs to offer.

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"Resolve and thou art free."

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 21, 1999).]
 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
Lets see:

FC: Ent-E is most advanced ship
Ins: Ent-E is used to welcome a new species in the Federation....

I'd say that's enough to call the Ent-E the Federation Flagship...

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Life on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free annual trip around the sun!

(-=\V/=-)
 

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
1) The Enterprise-E isn't the most advanced anymore, especially with the new Prometheus and stuff

2) The Enterprise was used for diplomatic meetings with the midgets because she wasn't involved in the war.

3) Where was it ever said that the original and -A Enterprises were flagships?

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey


 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
I'm almost positive that they said Kirk's ship was the flagship in TOS. I know that that's always been my assumption. I think the admiral wanted the Enterprise at some conference in "Amok Time" when Kirk had to get Spock back to Vulcan because she was the flagship. Other ships were going to be there but it was important that the Enterprise specifically was there. I don't remember if the term 'flagship' was actually used, but that was the implication.

Also, who says the Ent E isn't involved in the war at all?

The Prometheus is likely still in development stages and they're not going to take away a ship's status or name simply because a slightly more advanced starship comes along. The Prometheus Class may be faster and more powerfull, but the Sovereign Class Enterprise still represents Starfleet's best and brightest.

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"Resolve and thou art free."

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 21, 1999).]
 

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
 
I like the idea of a Galaxy class ship being the flagship of the Federation. I mean think about it, the Galaxy's are still in production, they are the largest, and with appropriate upgrades and refits are as impressive as a Sovereign. Besides we aren't necessarily talking about military strength, for example, the HMS Hood was the flagship of the British navy between WWI and WWII despite being out classed by many of its peers.

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
Aban: The Enterprise wasn't involved in the war during Insurrection, and hadn't seemed to be at any time. It's just an impression, though.

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Frank's Home Page
"Ou tou kratountos h� polis nomizetai" - Creon
 

Posted by Basill on :
 
Very good point about the hood bear. That is precisely why she rests in two pieces on the floor of the Atlantic. She was the pride of the fleet, and although she was well polished, she was no match for some of the newer ships in the Royal Navy much less the Bismark. I think this is how we should see Starfleet ships. Each class (as well as individual vessels) has its own strengths and weaknesses, but merit does not always determine the element of prestige.
For that you need a touch of pride and arrogance

thats just my take anyway.

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Just a thought...A grain of salt-season to taste-lather, rinse, repeat
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I don't think the E-nil was supposed to be the flagship. In the early days, didn't they (read: GeneR) was the E to be "just another ship", not anything particularly special in and of itself (at least, as far as Starfleet was concerned)?

And, even if the E's were flagships, wouldn't they want to have good captains on them? I mean, Kirk and Picard, of course, are supposed to be two of the greatest captains in SF history. Even Chris Pike got an award named for him, and Rachel Garrett seemed to be pretty good, from what little we saw of her. But then, what do we do w/ Tuesday Harriman? If the E-B was the flagship, why in the world did they put him in charge? :-)

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"'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'"
-Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
 

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
 
He was... a substitute 'til tuesday?

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-You are crazy.
-I thought I was pisces.


 

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :
 
I dunno...I kinda liked Harriman. Plus, I think Alan Ruck is cool.
 
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Alan Ruck is the man and quite frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing him skipper the Ent B in an Enterprise B series or mini series. But that's another thread. As far as Harriman's incompitence, I think the movie may have overstated it slightly. Don't you think he learned from that experience? Plus, it's likely that he was simply in command of the ship during it's trial runs and final checks. He may have even gotten to deliver it somewhere when operational command would be handed over to another captain, who was possibly commanding another ship at the time.

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"Resolve and thou art free."
 

Posted by Marko Latin on :
 
I'm very happy to get so many replies to this topic

Just tell me where can i get pictures of the Sovereign class!


And how do you change the inscription under your username (New Member, Senior Member.....)???

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Dream on...in the end...dreams are everything...

 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
1: You're welcome
2: http://shipyard.scifi-art.com (these are not of the official Ent-E, but are damn near close to it)
3: You need to have over 250 posts until you can do that.

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Life on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free annual trip around the sun!

(-=\V/=-)
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
So, let's say someone has 250 posts. How might one go about doing it then...?

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"Resolve and thou art free."
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
It's an option in your profile.

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Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
 
By the time I get to 250 post we'll have to all start over again.
lol

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Posted by Lt. Tom on :
 
All right, I hate Harriman as much as anyone. No, it's not because Kirk died on his watch. No, it's not because of what the did to the Excelsior to make his boat. However, as was pointed out to me once, he could have just been overwhelmed by the combination of a living legend, the Big Chair of the flagship, and the reporters. To his credit, his initial response was to protect his ship and crew.

I'd still like to think the real captain came Tuesday, though.

[This message has been edited by Lt. Tom (edited December 24, 1999).]
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Well, that's just the problem. A really good captain wouldn't have been nervous, or at least wouldn't let it affect his performance so much.

Of course, you could also argue that he didn't let it affect his performance, and that his performance is that bad anyway. :-)

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"'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'"
-Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
 

Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :
 
Here we are... E-E specs from the creators...

Category: Type II Explorer
Dimensions: Length - 685m
Draft - 88m
Beam - Saucer 250m
Nacelles 214m
Mass: 3,205,000 metric tons
Decks: 24

Crew: Officers - 130
Enlisted - 725
Evacuation capacity: 12,800 persons
Cargo capacity: 18,000 metric tons

Armament: Type XII phaser collimators - DECK 4 (upper)
DECK 5 (main)
DECK 11 (lower)
DECK 23 (lateral)
OUTPUT - 7.2 megawatts
Torpedo launchers - DECK 13 (forward)
DECK 19 (aft)
DECK 20 (forward)
TYPE - quantum, photon
VOLLEY - maximum spread of 12

Main Systems:
Propulsion: Warp
REACTOR - M/ARA Mk II
NORMAL CRUISE VELOCITY - Warp 6
MAXIMUM CRUISE VELOCITY - Warp 9.7
FUEL - supercritical cryogenic deuterium
supercritical cryogenic antihydrogen
REACTION MODERATING ELEMENT - fifth-phase crystalline dilithium
FUEL REPLENISHMENT - Bussard ramscoops (6)

Propulsion: Impulse
REACTORS - 24 fusion reactors
DRIVER COIL ASSEMBLIES - 8
FUEL - cryogenic deuterium slush

Propulsion: Auxiliary
ADDITIONAL SYSTEMS - reaction control thrusters
emergency manual overdrive

Computer
HARDWARE - bio-neural gel packs
SOFTWARE - LCARS version 2.5 interface
DATA TRANSFER RATE - 6200 kiloquads per second
NUMBER OF DEDICATED MODULES - 1800 per core
STORAGE CAPACITY - 725,000 kiloquads per module
(total 1,305x106 kiloquads per core)
COMPUTER CORES - 2 in primary hull
1 in engineering hull
TOTAL STORAGE - 3.915x106 kiloquads

Transporters
PERSONNEL - 6
EMERGENCY - 12
CARGO - 4

Communications
TRANSMISSION TYPES - voice and data
RANGE - personal communicator 800 km
ship-to-shore 42,000 km (normal)
100,000 km (extreme)
TRANSMISSION SPEED - data: 18.5 kiloquads per second
subspace: Warp 9.9997

Sensors
MAX EFFECTIVE RANGE - high resolution: 7 light-years
medium to low resolution: 21 light-years

Embarked Craft:
CAPTAIN'S GIG
SHUTTLECRAFT - numerous; various types
OTHER - several Workbees for damage control EVA operations

OK, it's a big list (sorry! I would post it on my hopepage but I don't have one ). Apparently it was written by John Eaves and Rick Sternbach, modified by me to add workbees (seen on the MSD).
Any more questions? Ask!

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
Maximum cruise velocity is only warp 9.7 ?? Somehow I doubt that. The Ent-D could go to warp 9.8 without any big problems. And the Ent-E has both more advanced systems and longer nacelles. as a matter of fact: The Sovereign class has longest nacelles of all Federation ships.

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited December 25, 1999).]
 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
I think the Sovereign class is as most Starfleet ships a jack of all trades , from Diplomatic or Political Missions to a heavy battlecruiser of sorts

As for what she was doing during the Dominion war , I think she was kind of a moral boaster , maybe she cruised around federation worlds to bring sprits up and the like , the federation wouldent send the its largest vessel to fight against dozens of small ships , we all saw what happeneds to Galaxy Class Ships , they are swarmed by Jem Hadar and then when the sheilds fal the Jam Hadar Ram the ship . like fighting a Gurrela War with B-52s , it would work to some extent but the Gurrelas would soon develop tactics around them , for example during Vietnam when the VC was being bombed by the US they soon started clinging to US Platoons , that way if the US used B-52's they would risk harming US troops . So in a fight between a Sovereign and 5 Jem hadar Attack Ships , I think the Jam Hadar would come out the victor with the Sovereign taking heavy losses .

In my opinion there is only one Sovereign in active service that being the Enterprise which was originaly the USS Sovereign during its designing and construction but later renamed enterprise after the
E-D was lost , Why do i believe there is only one you ask ? well I imagine a Ship like the Sovereign would take more then 4 years to contruct 1 year in testing until it is Officialy Comissioned that makes for a total of 6 years from conception to service . The Enterprise-D was destroyed in 2371 and the Enterprise-E was Comissioned in 2373 so i think my thoery is sound. So if there is another Sovereign shy is most likley either still under construction or in the testing Stage.Also Id like to say somthing about Starship naming , Starfleet does indeed rename vessels , case in point the USS San Paulo which was renamed USS Defiant at the request of Admiral Ross , What makes you think they wont do this for an other ship ? espeacialy for the Enterprise .

This post was meant to be a small note and look what it has turned into :-) Well I must bid you farewell and Marry Christmas to all and a very happy New Year.

Visit my web site , Jupiter Station , Starfleet Research and Development at :


Jupiter Station , Starfleet Research and Development


[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited December 25, 1999).]
 

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I don't see much reason to assume that the Enterprise is the only Sovereign around. Sure, Geordi said she was the most advanced ship in the fleet, but he said that about the D too, and she certainly wasn't the only Galaxy.

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"And she stands beneath the mistletoe screaming. For him to stand beneath the mistletoe, screaming."
--
They Might Be Giants
 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
That's true! The Ent-D has been refered to as the best ship in the fleet (or something like that) several times, even by the Borg.

I agree that we cannot asume that the Enterprise-E is the only Sovereign around just because it is refered to as 'the most advanced'.

I think you can best compare this with Formula 1 racing: All the drivers of a team get about the same car, but the most promising driver gets the latest and best parts, while the other(s) have to do with lesser parts.
In Star Trek: There are more Sovereign class ships around, but the Enterprise gets the best equipment (first). Which makes it the most advanced ship...

See what I mean?

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)
 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
Maybe they refeer to the Enterprise as the best because it was the first Sovereign and it has an experianced Crew and a Good Captain . Any way i still maintain that there is still only one Sovereign , of course there are most likley more under construction but only one in active service that being the Enterprise.

Check Out My Website at :
Jupiter Station , Starfleet Research and Development

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited December 26, 1999).]
 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
One fact you all are overlooking: As of seaseon 6 of Voyager, the Enterprise-E is in service for 4 years. And they still haven't got another Sovereign class out there...? I find that VERY hard to believe!

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)
 

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
 
The Ent-E isn't necessarily the only Sovereign but it does seem odd that the Ent-E was launched only a little over a year after the Ent-D was destroyed. Could they really have built such an advanced vessel during that time? Or was the Ent-E originally destined to be called something else?

Something else - I just noticed today that the Sovereign-class hasn't even got a single phaser array on the aft half of the ship. In fact there's only one array on the entire secondary hull. Seems like a design flaw to me - something that enemy vessels could take advantage of.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

 

Posted by Lt. Tom on :
 
Per Dhunter's theory, it takes six years to make a service-ready Sovvy, and SF wouldn't have started production on any more until the first one was built.

I have a number of problems with this theory, though. First and foremost, it would be highly irregular for SF to rename the class prototype. I'll grant that SF has been known to rename (and in the case of the Ent-A, re-rego) ships. However, I think it's much more likely that the Sovereign-class had already gone into full production and that SF decided the next hull that was finished would receive the name Enterprise.

The biggest remaining problem I have is why each Sovvy would have to spend over a year in testing. Obviously, the USS Sovereign would have undergone some rigorous testing, especially if it was an experimental (NX) design. I would think that any built after that point would only undergo a shakedown cruise, though--a quick jaunt around the system, pick up the quantorps and the last of the crew on Tuesday, and then it's off to wherever SFNC wants to send it.
 

Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
 
Re: No further ships built until AFTER Prototype completed...

We know this to be false, at least so says the TNGTM. While the USS Galaxy was under construction, at LEAST the Yamato and E-D were also being built. Says so in the Construction Chronology section. The 2 batches of 6...

Why people always have to come up with convuluted explainations to things is beyond me... Of course the E-E was a Sovereign Class under construction that was renamed upon completion. To suggest that they'd rename the Class ship is ludicrous, that would make Sovereign Class the Enterprise Class, and we know that's not the case.

And seeing how the Galaxy Class was built in a first batch of 6, the Intrepid rumoured to be a first batch of 4, and all the ships in a batch are completed within a couple years of each other, I'd say it's very realistic to say there's 4-6 Sovereigns in service. And THEN, considering the war and the rush to finish ships, you could even say that there'd be maybe even 10 or so Sovereigns out there...

Barring the loss of any ships in the war, etc, of course.

------------------
Sheridan: "Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless and totally consistant with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon..."
Kosh: "Good."
Sheridan: "I REALLY hate it when you do that..."
Kosh: "Good."

SapphireEclipse Productions
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/

[This message has been edited by The Vorlon (edited December 26, 1999).]
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
"Of course the E-E was a Sovereign Class under construction that was renamed upon completion."

Unless it didn't have a previous name in the first place.

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
 

Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
 
Same difference.

------------------
Sheridan: "Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless and totally consistant with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon..."
Kosh: "Good."
Sheridan: "I REALLY hate it when you do that..."
Kosh: "Good."

SapphireEclipse Productions
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/
 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
Not all ships spend a year in testing but such large ships like Sovs and Galaxies take time to get used to , also most Captains and Engineers like to configure their ships differantly so I imagine that would take some time and then a couple of months of contenues warp travel to test out the drive then a month of testing the sensors and the like its basicly the same as what the US Navy puts its ships through
Recently i watched a documentery on the construction of the USS Harry Truman , the US's newest Aircraft Carrier , they said that when the Carrier was seaworthy , not complete but sea worthy they would send it on sea trials for 2 months to test out all its systems and finish some of the intallations at sea , maybe that is what SF does , they send out the ship with all it needs to Fly to test out its core systems that way if theres a problem they can catch it before they pour more time and resources into the other systems then if that went off right they install the rest of the stuff and then test that , then as the last step they send her out for a final test and to give a chance for the crew to get used to the ship. this might take 7-8 months , the other 4 months would probley have the ship showing itself off on Earth and Stuff then it would receive its first orders.

Case in point , the USS Enterprise-B left spacedock incomplete , maybe it was going to start its teasting mission after it droped off Kirk and the rest at the end of its christening.

Also id like to say that The Vorlon does have a point , their could be more Sovereigns by now but not 10 maybe 3 - 4 at the most if anything the Dominion War might have slowed production of the Sovereign , Sovs are very valnarble to a large fleet of small fighter types , for example if you walk through a bunch a Gnats (Those little bugs that get stuck on your windsheild) they annoy the hell out of you some get in your mouth, others your nose , now imagine those Gnats as Ships with Phasers and your the Sov , sure you could smack some off but the remaining ones would have already caused the damage , The way i think of it Starfleet would have slowed production of the Sov and opted to use those resources to build more defiants and other small ships like that to fight the Jem Hadar Attack ships.

=======================================================
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death"
http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited December 26, 1999).]
 

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
 
Why is always assumed that a larger ship will always fall victim to the smaller ones? The only reason the Odyssey got whacked was because Starfleet hadn't found a way to modify their shield against phased polaron weapons. The fact that ships are only as good as their targeting package seems to be lost on many people. In the episode where the Defiant got boarded didn't a Jem'Hadar fix some targeting deficiency in the weapon systems? I bet those targeting updates were passed to every ship in the fleet, and that explains the Galaxy's success in hitting Jem'Hadar attack ships in the DS9 final.

------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

[This message has been edited by bear (edited December 26, 1999).]
 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
I didnt mean that the ship would be destroyed , i meant that the small vessels could inflict enough damage to render a large ship like that inoperative for a while , But the sovereign class does have some design flaws that would make destruction possible . For example the rear of the Sovereign is very lightly defended in a scenerio where the sheilds are gone , if a ship was to come up close from behind Sovreign , it would only be facing a lone photon torpedo laucnher and certain angles the phaser arrays which if fired and the Attacker is destroyed , the shockwave and explosion would damage the sovs hull and produce several fractures , depending on how the explosion occured and if the sov does not fire it will be destroyed , if it moves and the attacker is able to stay on it the sov ship will still be in harms way , and even if it can wiggle out it would still be in harms way so my thoery of the smaller ships being able to take larger ones is only intended towards the Sov Class not the Galaxy Class .

http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/sovereign_class_top.jpg


In the end more of the small ships would have been destroyed but their goal would have been achieved , they put one of the Feds largest vessels in Spacedock for months for extensive repairs or in worst case scenerio the ship would have been a total loss .

1 ship alone cant do this but if a squadron of 6 or 7 Jem Hadar Attack ships could do it with maybe 3 or 4 going down .

and in another Scenerio , if a Romulan Warbird were to decloak from behind the ship , it would have a great advantage in the battle to come , the Enterprise would take the first hits which would bring the sheilds down alot if the Romulan ship gets in some good hits and can keep the Sov from coming about to bear its Quantum Torpedo Launcher , the Romulan would have the upper hand .

Of Course this is all supposing the ships get to the right place at the right time and the Smaller ships can get the sheilds low enough.

=======================================================
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death" http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm

[fixed link]

[This message has been edited by TSN (edited December 27, 1999).]
 

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
 
What's all this business about Sovs needing a year of testing? According to the real plaque the Ent-E was launched 49827.5 and First Contact was 50893.5. Now, Geordi said that they had been "out in space nearly a year". To me this suggests that they spent about a month testing the ship.

------------------
"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
By year i dont mean a Complete year maybe 6 - 7 months.

=======================================================
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death" http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited December 27, 1999).]
 

Posted by Enterprise (Member # 48) on :
 
Being the resident commanding officer of a Sovereign-class, I'd like to offer my 2 cents.

I would speculate that there are at LEAST 3, perhaps 4 Sovereign-class ships out there. Here's what we know (and can speculate on the names of the other ships):

USS Sovereign NX-74222 (likely NCC by now)
USS Enterprise NCC-1701-E
USS Avalon (ok, I made this one up for a story)
USS Doesn't get a name or reg number until Tuesday

COMMON SENSE: No way was the Big Sov renamed Enterprise. It IS the Sovereign-class after all, not the Enterprise-class.

If you want to know about those stories of mine, which feature at least one Sovereign-class a story, let me know.

------------------
Brandon "Enterprise" Grasmick
Commanding Officer, USS Sovereign (NX-74222)

"Captain, the Sona crew are willing to negotiate a cease fire. It may have something to do with the fact that we have 3 minutes of air left."
-- Worf

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
-- In time of war the law falls silent.


 

Posted by Enterprise (Member # 48) on :
 
Dhunter, before I forget to comment on your signature:

"My name is Miles O'Brien and I am very much alive."

------------------
Brandon "Enterprise" Grasmick
Commanding Officer, USS Sovereign (NX-74222)

"Captain, the Sona crew are willing to negotiate a cease fire. It may have something to do with the fact that we have 3 minutes of air left."
-- Worf

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
-- In time of war the law falls silent.


 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
There are most likly 3 to 4 sovs .

"NX-74222"

Where did you get the Reg Number ? is it Canon ?

=======================================================
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death"

http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm


[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited December 27, 1999).]
 

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
There is no canon registry for the Sovereign. Brando prefers 74222 because it fits well, I guess..

------------------
New sig coming soon!


 

Posted by Enterprise (Member # 48) on :
 
74222 has been floating around for quite a while. It does seem to fit so it is what I use....

------------------
Brandon "Enterprise" Grasmick
Commanding Officer, USS Sovereign (NX-74222)

"Captain, the Sona crew are willing to negotiate a cease fire. It may have something to do with the fact that we have 3 minutes of air left."
-- Worf

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
-- In time of war the law falls silent.


 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
Oh ok , I have been looking for the canon reg for a while so that i can put it on my page , I guess the search contenues :-)

------------------
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death" http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm


 

Posted by Devilman on :
 
Sovereign pics are available from [url]http://members.xoom.com/devilsworld6/startrek/sovereign/index.htm[url]

As for the Enterprise-E being the Flagship, well I doubt it.

Also, I know she is pretty meaty, but if she is the most advanced ship in the fleet, WHY was she so easily kaned by the Sona and WHY does the most advanced ship in the fleet have an optional 'JOYSTICK' control?????
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Why do you doubt it Devilman? I'm not mocking, I'm just curious. I've just always assumed that this was true given the tradition of continuing the registry number.

I notice you're a new member here, but haven't I caught you over at scifi-art before?

------------------
"Resolve and thou art free."

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 28, 1999).]
 

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
Yes, you have. He's in a high position over there, IIRC..

------------------
New sig coming soon!


 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
What's wrong with a joystick?

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
 

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 
I've been there (Devils World) they have some extremely great images. Those Sovereign ones for example are awsome.

------------------
Calvin: "You don't think humans evolved from monkeys?"
Hobbes: "I sure don't see any difference."
Federation Starship Datalink - Starship site of the new millennium.
 

Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
 
According to Captains Chair, which, i know, is not entirely cannon: The Enteprise-E can out manuver ships 1/3 of her size even at warp.

Also, a Joystick is generally easier to control a ship with then a LCARS pad. Having a manual maneuvering column makes sense for situations such as that one, this might even become a common thing for future Starfleet ships.

------------------
Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Graphics � The United Federation Uplink � AxisIRC
------------------
Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"


 

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
 
Exactly. A joystick is hardly a bad element, and often a reason people tear down Insurrection, too.

Well, Captain's Chair also says the Defiant can land, etc. Way too high on the speculation. It's hardly even "official" to me. I mean, Ron Moore once said something like, "Oh really? I didn't know the Defiant could land, and I have all the official+canon information" (which, TSN and Frank might say is not worth much, but the point remains ).

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
 
BTW - The Enterprise-E IS the flagship. Have you people become so stubborn as to take a "if they dont say it, it is false" view twoards trek?

Think about these:

-The Enterprise-E was the most advanced ship of its time.
-The Enterprise-E welcomes new races into the federation.
-The Enterprise-E is a successor to 5 flagships under the name Enterprise.
-The Enterprise-E is commanded by the crew of the previous flagship.
-The Ent-E IS the flagship according to Captains Chair, although that isnt really cannon.


------------------
Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Graphics � The United Federation Uplink � AxisIRC
------------------
Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"


 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
"BTW - The Enterprise-E IS the flagship. Have you people become so stubborn as to take a 'if they dont say it, it is false' view twoards trek?"

No, but if they don't say it, we don't know if it's true.

"The Enterprise-E was the most advanced ship of its time."

Well, I mean, the USS Constitution is the flagship of the US Navy...

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
 

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
 
quote:
The Enterprise-E welcomes new races into the federation.

Actually, those little people in Insurrection were just becoming a protectorate, but you point remains.

And Captain's Chair is far from canon. I like a lot in it (and the idea itself), but you'd think they'd have cut down on some of the weird parts (like arbitrarily saying Defiant-class ships can land, while it goes against the class's other design elements)...

We don't know for sure the Enterprise-E is the flagship, though. It's way more than likely, and I doubt anyone here would want it any other way (except for Frank, maybe ); but we can't just say it IS the flagship.

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

Posted by Devilman on :
 
Well, the only reason I doubt that the ENTY-E is the current federation flagship is because:

Just becuase its the ENTERPRISE doesnt mean that it is by default the Flagship. It`d be nice to assume that, but until some official thing in some magazine says it is so, speculation isnt enough to justify the fact.

Also, wouldnt also be logical to assume that a GALAXY CLASS ship would remain the Flagship? I mean, just because a newer starship is more advanced doesnt propmote the class to FLAGSHIP. Hell, the Intrepid class and Defiant class are more advanced than the Galaxy, but you dont see those being made Flaships!

Regarding the Defiant, it CAN land on Planets because in a shematic in a recent Star Trek magazine, it shows the little landing legs! (Dont ask me which one - it was a friend of mine`s who is on holidays - plus we are in Australia, and waaay behind the rest of the world!)

And, regarding my place in Scifi-Art, I realise there may be some 'bad blod' between these two forums, but I am not exactly 'High Up' with the SFA, alothough I am a senate member. (more of a 'silent' member)! I do mucho renderings for them, and they teach me techniques!

Y`know, we could argue the FLAGSHIP thing for ever, but what it boild down to is the rule that we have folowed since Trek began:

Until it is mentioned in an Episode, Magazine, or other official source, it is NOT so.
Wishful thinking or hoping doesnt make it so.
So, until some writer sneaks a one-liner in about the Enty-E being the Flagship, she is, for all intensive purposes, NOT!

PS - ta for the nice comments on my site. It is quite a chore to keep it updated and running smooth!

 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Devilman, no bad blood here. I visit SciFi Art all the time to get photo reference and stuff. And your site is pretty killer.

Regarding Sovies being promoted to the flagship, I don't think that is the issue. It's whether or not the ENTERPRISE is the flagship.

Follow me for a second: The Ent D is destroyed and they want to keep an Enterprise in service as the flagship, so what class should they make it? Of course they're going to make it the biggest and best. So it's my postulation that a Sovy class is not the flagship becuase she's a Sovy class. The Enterprise is the flagship and just happens to be a Sovy class. If the Ent D were still around, she would still be the flagship regardless of the fact that newer and better ships have come along. The Enterprise is a legend in the Federation, and I think that they want that legend representing them.

Just IMHO of course. And you're right, until it's said, they could do just about anything and make this a moot point. But isn't debating fun...? =)

------------------
"Resolve and thou art free."
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I'm not seeing where this "It's the Enterprise, so it must be the flagship" idea is coming from. Sure, the E-D was the flagship. I'm not sure, but they might have said at some point that the E-A was. But the E-nil, E-B, and E-C were never even hinted at as being flagships. Personally, I would expect the Excelsior to have been the flagship at the time of the E-B...

And, about the joystick... It may be useful in a situation where the ship has to make many quick turns one right after the other. But, in Insurrection, there was no point. The helmsman probably could have made the same maneuvers we saw w/ two or three button-pushes. It was a gimmick, nothing more.

------------------
"'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'"
-Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
 

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
 
The E-E is the flagship for the same reason the United States keeps the U.S.S. Constitution around.

------------------
Peace on Earth



 

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
Well, the E-E may be the flagship now, but it wasn't in FC. Remember the line about the flagship being destroyed?

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie

 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
That was just the flagship of that particular fleet. But you knew that, being me for the next few days.

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
 

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Wasn't it "the admiral's ship", not the "flagship"?

------------------
"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
It was called the flagship in the radio chatter.

------------------
Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
 

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :
 
To quote...

Flagship: A ship that carries a fleet or squadron commander and bears the commander's flag.

(Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright � 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.)

The etymology here is this: Admirals are known as "flag officers" because each has a flag which represents him (a military tradition dating back over 2000 years). When he boards a vessel, the vessel's flag is lowered and his is raised; she then becomes the "flag-ship." Therefore the "flagships" destroyed at Wolf-359 or at the Battle of Sector 001 were probably the battle fleet flagships. This would rhyme with Picard's message to the remaining fleet in ST-FC: "This is Captain Picard of the Enterprise. I'm taking command of the fleet."

Those who have pointed out the modern-day U.S.S. Constitution as paradigm for this discussion are probably right on the mark. She is a three-masted sailing ship over 150 years old, but for tradition's sake she's still the U.S. Navy flagship. I think it makes sense for Star Fleet to want to preserve tradition by keeping an Enterprise as their flagship.

(Oh, and by the way, I HATED the joystick!)

------------------
Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Troi said "The Admiral's ship has been destroyed" in FC. I don't recall hearing the word flagship in the radio chatter. The point about Picard taking command of the fleet is something I forgot to mention before but have noticed too. How could Picard give other ships orders unless he somehow outranked the other other captains in a battle situation.

Janeway told capt. Ransom that the ship with tactical superiority outranked other ships in a battle situation. But this fact had not yet been established when FC came out. I think it was the writer's implication that Picard was aboard the Fleet's flagship and could therefore take command.

And TSN, there is just as little justification for thinking the Excelsior was ever the flagship as there is for believing the Enterprise B was.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx


 

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
 
Well, Brannon Braga co-wrote both "Equinox" and First Contact, so maybe he always had the tactical superiority rule in mind.

------------------
Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
 
"I am Capt. Picard, the heir to Kirk, Locutus of Borg, Bald Sex symbol, Capt. of NCC 1701-E, U.S.S. Enterprise, ect. I am taking command of the fleet!"

What Stewart coulda said

------------------
Peace on Earth



 

Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
 
For some reason, I can picture Seven of Nine saying something similar to that...

------------------
Sometimes I run
Sometimes I hide
Sometimes I'm scared of you
But all I really want is to hold you tight
Treat you right, be with you day and night
Baby all I need is time

-Britney Spears
 

Posted by Lt. Tom on :
 
"I am Lieutenant Commander Marrissa Amber Flores Picard, adopted daughter of Admiral Jean-Luc Picard, Second Officer on the USS Stargazer NCC-2893, Fighter Commander on the USS Stargazer NCC-2893, Coordinating Officer of the Starfleet Kids' Crews, Princess, and Heir to the Throne of the planet Essex!"

You can thank your choice of deity (or lack thereof) that wasn't said. (It's a reference to some really bad Trek fanfic. If you have to ask, you don't want to know.)
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I'm sure that (as hinted by the last few posts) Picard was only able to take command because everyone else knew who he was. If, instead of the E-E, another Sovereign had shown up, but it was commanded by Captain Bubba Jim-Bob formerly of the USS Cannon Fodder, command of the fleet would have come down according to a preset chain of command.

In other words, Picard was able to take command simply because he was Picard. :-)

------------------
"'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'"
-Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
 

Posted by Devilman on :
 
Ooooo!!!!! Aban Rune has a good point there!
I was wondering how picard so easily took command of the fleet at the battle, so perhaps he Enty-E *IS* the flagship, only it simply hasnt been confirmed in any ep or dialogue!

Can anybody else please tell me how Picard could have taken command of the fleet with such ease? I`l dlike to know
 

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Because he was Picard, captain of the Enterprise? Such people usually carry a bit more clout then most.

Besides, what were the other captains going to say?

"Picard!? Oh, that glory hog! Well, we won't be following his orders, not today!"

"Uh, sir, what do we do about the Borg? The Enterprise is broadcasting attack coordinates. Unless you have a better idea..."

"Well, use them...but don't let them know we're using them."

------------------
"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
True, other fleet captains probably have quite a bit of respect for Picard, and Picard has never been one to soft step matters of authority. But he wasn't taking command of a bunch of Lieutenants. He TOOK OFFICIAL COMMAND of the entire fleet defending Earth and gave them an ORDER which put the whole effort on the line. I don't think he would've done it in that way unless he had the authority to do so.

Again, this is all conjecture. The Ent E has never been specifically IDed as the Federation Flagship. But, once again IMHO, I believe the Fleet has instituted a tradition of keeping the Enterprise as the Fleet's flagship. If the Ent E lasts for 100 years, and by that time the Humungo-phaser-torp Class has been produced and is kicking Cardassian butt to the far flung reaches, The Ent E will still be the Flagship. Of course Enterprises also have the unfortunate tradition of being destoyed or decomissioned very early in their lifetimes (at least the A and the D)

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx


 

Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
 
Well, the history of starships named Enterprise has always been somewhat violent. True the Enterprise-B seemed to have lived a long life, but then again the ship could have been blow to bits like the Enterprise C, D, and the original ship.

The following is a list on how each Enterprise ended its Starfleet service career

The original was destroyed because Kirk set auto-destruct to prevent the Klingons to take control of her

The -A was decommissioned early for some reason (many say because the ship was the Yorktown)

The -B lived the longest of all ships named Enterprise but no one knows if the ship was decommissioned after a long service life or became space debris like many other ships named Enterprise

The -C was destroyed at Narendra III by Romulan Warbirds (is this how Starfleet knew about the existance of the new Warbirds?)

The -D was destroyed at the Veridian System by Lursa and B'tor's trigger-happy ship and crew (I would think that Worf would have rotated the shields)

The -E is still in service, yet it seems that it's taken a heavy beating in its early service career (can anyone say ka-boom?)

------------------
Sometimes I run
Sometimes I hide
Sometimes I'm scared of you
But all I really want is to hold you tight
Treat you right, be with you day and night
Baby all I need is time

-Britney Spears
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Actually, I'm not sure a launch date was ever given for the C. And therefore, we don't really know how long the B lasted. The TNG Tech Man says that the B was responsible for a great deal of exploration in the Alpha or Beta Quadrant. It doesn't say much at all about the C.

Captain Garrett does mention warbirds but they may not have been the D'deridex Class warbirds that appear in the Next Gen. era.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited December 31, 1999).]
 

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I don't think the matter of an official changing of command was much of an issue. The fleet was being beaten. Picard said he had a plan. What else would you suggest they do? I would imagine that, had it been some other captain on some other ship with a brand new idea, they would have listened to him too.

------------------
"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Aban: You say Picard would not "soft-step on matters of authority". Have you forgotten that he was ordered not to be there in the first place?

------------------
"...more people buy Harry Potter novels than the works of Alexander Pope, but that's no measure of their quality."
-Tom Aylward-Nally, December 29, 1999

[This message has been edited by TSN (edited January 01, 2000).]
 

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :
 
On the issue of Picard's assumption of command in the Battle of Sector 001, I've got to go with Sol on this one. The fleet was in complete disarray, the defense of Earth was falling apart... and the individual commanders probably recognized it. Picard arrived on the scene with a ship and a plan, and the other captains fell in line and followed.

Of course, if Enterprise WAS the Federation flagship, it would lend a lot more credence to Picard's assumption of command.

------------------
Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

 

Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
 
Speaking of short, violent lives, has anyone else noticed that Klingons have almost always played a hand in the death of an Enterprise?

1701 - Destroyed to prevent it from falling into Klingon hands after having been disabled during a fight with a Klingon BOP. Also simulated having been destroyed by Klingons in the previous movie...

1701-A - On her final mission before decommissioning, she got the snot beat out of her while attempting to destroy a BOP that could fire while cloaked. Likely WOULD have been destroyed by Klingons had the Excelsior not joined the fight on her side...

1701-B - Unknown. Fan conjecture states this ship could have been lost during the Tomed Incident, which involved Romulans and not Klingons... But until this is mentioned onscreen, we have no proof that the Klingons were NOT involved...

1701-C - Lost while defending a Klingon outpost against Romulan attack. Pesky Klingons again, causing the Enterprise to get involved and be destroyed...

1701-D - Fatally wounded during a fight with obsolete Klingon BOP. Should never have happened, but those damn Klingons cheated... And the Klingon manning the weapon systems on the Enterprise only fired one freakin' whimpy shot...

1701-E - STAY AWAY FROM KLINGONS!!!

------------------
Sheridan: "Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless and totally consistant with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon..."
Kosh: "Good."
Sheridan: "I REALLY hate it when you do that..."
Kosh: "Good."

SapphireEclipse Productions
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/
 

Posted by warbird5 on :
 
the enterprise is the flagship of the federation. it is the most powerful and most technologically advanced ship in the fleet. defiant might be able to destroy the Enterprise only b/c it is more manuevorable. if the Enterprise went against the Prometheus, it would blow the Prometheus to bits. I would say there's about 25 or so Sovereigns out there now. By now the year is 2375 or 2376 and you guys underestimate the economic cabalities and the resources of the Federation. There's about 30,000 ships in Starfleet, plus many more personnal ships, transports, and shuttles and runabouts. The Federation's wartime economy is dangerous thing. The United States' wartime economy in WW2 outproduced the rest of the world combined.
 
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
uh, ok, welcome to the forums newbie. You might want to read what we already said FIRST though.

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
25 Sovs !?

The idea is laughable , 4 or 5 MAYBE but 25!? egads man .

The Federation does have a good war time economy but there is no way they could build 25 Sovs in 4 years and still have time to build the other ships they really need for this war.

And why would Starfleet waste its time on 25 Sovs ? 25 sovs would take a total of 12500 Crew Members concidering each Sov needs about 500 crew members to function . I dought that In a time where Starfleet is struggling to man its vessels it would waste almost 13000 on 25 Sovs when it could stick those 13000 officers on Akiras , Defiants , Sabres , Norways and Steamrunners the ships that Starfleet needs to win the war.

Maybe now that the war is over Starfleet will concider building more Sovs but not as many as 25 .

As for Picard taking command of the fleet at Sector 001 , you must remember that not all Starfleet ship Commanders are at the rank of Captains , some are at the rank of Commander others at Lt Commander , Captains are in command of larger ships like galaxys , Excelsiors and the like but for ships like the Sabres , Steamrunners and Akiras which are new classes , those commands are given to new officers , Commanders and such. So concidering that the Battle at Sector 001 was made up of those new classes he might have been taking command of the fleet because he outranked some of the CO's there , but the most likely reason he took over the fleet was because his vessel held a tactical advantage over the other ships and according to Janeway and Capt Ransom of the Equinox in a situation where all CO's are of the same rank the Captain of the vessel with tactical advantage takes command over the rest.

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"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death"
http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm



 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
Why would Starfleet place those people on older ships??
The Sovereign class is almost sertainly one of the most powerful classes of ships in the Federation. If I was their militairy advisor, I'd say:
"Quit building those ancient Excelsiors and Mirandas, and get me as many Sovereigns as you can make!"

It proved to be a very capable design in the battle at Sector 001, so I think that those Starfleet admirals would be complete idiots if they don't order to build more of them...

------------------
"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)
 

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :
 
Well, of course they'll build more of them, that's the USAF not building any F-22's, and concentrating on building ancient planes, like the F-15A, and such.

But Starfleet could very well be making Mirandas, and Excelsiors, because they supplement the fleet very well, and probably don't take as long as a Sovereign.

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
They arnt building any new Excelsiors or Mirandas they just keep refiting the old ones . They are building more defiants , Akiras and stuff and they keep the Excelsiors and Mirandas to serve as science ships because most of the new ships are warships and not designed for science.


BTW has any body been over at TNO ? the Forum is reading posts made todays as

January 10 21000

*LOL* This also happened at the Istanbul Stock Exchange :-)

------------------
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death"
http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 01, 2000).]
 

Posted by warbird5 on :
 
i think you guys underestimate the size of the Federation. The Doiminion shipyards were producing Jem Hadar fighters within weeks. I think the notion of having 25 Sovereigns is reasonable I believe. The Defiant is a easy ship to mass produce so they should have arund 50 or so, but the actual number should be less than 10. The Federation should use the Defiant as their main ship for defense. A fleet of 1000 Defiants could be manned by just 50,000 Starfleet personnel. 5000 to 10,000 upgraded Defiants by 2390 or so could form Starfleet's defence grid and still use the larger ships as explorers. I think it said some where in the DS9 technical manual, that Cardassia could produce around a 1000 ships a year. Correct me if i'm wrong.
 
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
The Tech Manuals arent canon and please that would mean that defiants and Sovs take only months to produce , very unlikely also the Fed does indeed have a very capable economy but they just dont operate that way remember they also have to build and maintain all the other ships they have in service

1000 ships in 3 years ? Highyly unlikely also you must take into account the fact that the war is over and Starfleet has to focus on rebuilding the worlds the Dominion Destroyed.

Of course building new ships would be part of the agenda but not in such drastic numbers

------------------
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death"
http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm


[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 01, 2000).]
 

Posted by Devilman on :
 
damnit - this thread has lost the plot!

it was interesting until people like warbird5 jumped into the end of it without reading the whole 5 pages, and changed the damn subject!
 

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
 
While Warbird is totally wrong he did puyt a light bulb over my head. While it has been well documented that it takes years to build ships why would it? Detroit builds hundreds if not thousands of cars a day, so why would it take so long to build a ship?

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Peace on Earth


 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
For one thing cars arnt 600 meters Long and made out of Duranium , they also dont travel at the speed of light and they also dont take hundreds of people to operate :-) maybe fighters like the peregrine and shuttles and runabouts can be turned out in weeks or even days but large ships take just a bit longer :-)

Also all Starships have to be tested independantly and go through space trials unlike cars which take a quick run around the test track and there off.

Oh and Starships are built in Space not on an assembly line.

------------------
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."

-- Omet'iklan Ds9:"To the Death"
http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2/index.htm



 

Posted by warbird5 on :
 
during WW2, the US made ships within a week. The US was able to contrunct 23,000 ships during the war. These ships were like a 100m long and the bigger battleships and carriers took any where from a couple of weeks to several months to complete. Mass producing ships like the Sovereign and Defiant could five the Federation a tactical advantage
 
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
$$$$
$$$$
Possible Spoiler
$$$$
$$$$

Carriers in a few weeks? gimme a break

you mean those small Escort Carriers maybe but not Full Sized Carriers like the Yorktown and Intrepid or Wasp , Battleships took much longer , PT Boats took maybe weeks because they were small same as the Runabouts and shuttles also most of 23000 ships were landing ships and PT Boats which were easy to build.

Actually making large fleets of the same type of ships would be a major gamble. say the enemy found a flaw in the designs of the of those Classes for example the Soverigns Blind spot they could destroy hundreds of the ships and kill thousands of officers so you see its a double edged sword.

Ok heres the possible spoiler for those who havent seen the last Eps of Ds9 or Ds9 "Valiant"
$
$
$
$poiler

Remember the Breen Energy Weapon which disabled the Federation and Romulan Ships Power systems ? well that weapon led to the loss of hundreds of ships including your invincible Defiant. The Same Weapon had no effect on the Klingon Vessels because they were configured differantly, had the Klingons Been configured the same as the Fed and Rommies the Dominion would have had a huge oppertunity to mount a full scale attack on the Alpha Quadrant , the only thing that stood in there way were the Klingons .

That is why i believe in building vessels in moderation building alot of ships but of differing Classes that way an enemy would have to develop a new tactic for every class for example to destroy a Defiant Class Vessel without using super weapons you would have to put it up against a large vessel like a Dominion Battlecruiser , the very same battlecruiser which destroyed the USS Valiant another defiant class starship.


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"Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?"
~Homer "The Simpsons" http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 02, 2000).]
 

Posted by warbird5 on :
 
The Valiant was commanded by a bunch of kids. If the Defiant and her crew fought that Jemmie ship would've lost.


Sorry about posting all these messages, but i don't want to remain a new member for long.
 

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
 
But isn't it possible that other Sovereigns were (halfway) finished when the Enterprise-E was coming out of drydock? I mean, we don't know when the Sovereign prototype was finished? The Ent-E could have been one ship in a batch of who knows how much ships...

As for the original post:
We have debated ship types over and over and over... And we still cannot agree on some of those types.

And I think we can debate about whether the Sovereign can withstand a beating by 2 or 3 Defiant class ships (just an example) for years...

Just my opinion, do with it what you wish to.

------------------
"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)
 

Posted by warbird5 on :
 
getting back to the orginal topic, the Enterprise was the flagship of the fleet and always will be. Whatever class the Enterprise was in, it was the most advanced ship at the time.
 
Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
$$$$
$$$$

If the Defiant Crew was there on Board the Vailiant they would have Retreated because they know their ships limitations.


As for Altairs theory it is a possiblity , the Enterprise-E might have been one in a large batch of Sovs which were ordered .
------------------
"Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?"
~Homer "The Simpsons" http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 03, 2000).]
 

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I think it's possible that the Sovereign class was designed to be a companion class to the Galaxy. Starfleet's "big guns", as it were. Both classes meant to display the Federation's power, but while the Galaxy's mission involved the unexplored edges of the Federation, the Sovereign, with its presumably greater emphasis on military applications, was meant to be deployed closer to known threats. In other words, the Sovereign explores areas where you know there is going to be trouble, while the Galaxy is meant for the unchecked reaches of deep space.

Of course, as with all plans, this one would only last as long as the people in charged wanted it to. "Hmm, we need to impress the Vorvoxians. Call the Venture in."

This is just speculation, though. We know so little about the Sovereign class.

------------------
"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
warbird5: How could the Enterprise always be the flagship of the Federation when the Federation was over 80 years old before the first one was launched? That, plus the fact that there were twenty-odd years between the destruction of the C and the launch of the D. Are you saying the Federation just didn't have a flagship during those periods?

------------------
"...more people buy Harry Potter novels than the works of Alexander Pope, but that's no measure of their quality."
-Tom Aylward-Nally, December 29, 1999
 

Posted by warbird5 on :
 
Rachael Garrett was an good captain, but she wasn't a extraordinary captain like Kirk or Picard that's why the Federation waited so long. Kirk made the Enterprise a legend. I guess in Star Trek: The Motion picture he saved Earth and then he saved the world from the whale probe but that was with a Klingon BOP.
 
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the Enterprise has always been the Fed flagship. I do think though, that ever since it returned to Earth at the end of Kirk's first five year mission and the Fleet changed the logo and what not, that the Enterprise has been the flagship. I think it is also likely that the orig Ent was the flagship during TOS, but we've gone over all this already. It's all totally conjecture.

Plus, who's to say that Capt Garrett wasn't the world's best Capt.? We only knew her for like 5 minutes.

And for the last time (this goes way back up to the top of the page) Steamrunners, Akiras, Norways, and Sabers are NOT new classes of ships. They've been around for years. We're just getting to SEE them for the first time.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx


 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
No The Enterprise is not always the Flagship , if it was why not post an Admiral On it instead of Picard , and Flagships arnt chosen anyway theres no definitive Flagship , Flagships are defind as the ship on which a Commander leads his troops into battle or the Ship Bearing the Flag of that particular General or Admiral and Picard is defenitly no General and no Admiral neather was Garrett , Harriam , or Kirk , well Kirk was but he flubed it up and got busted down to Captain , So in Conclusion The only period the Enterprise could have been a Flagship was During the time that Kirk was still Admiral which if i am correct was Startrek 1 , 2 and 3 .

Oh i just realized , if Flagship is defined as the Ship Bearing the Flag of a particular General or Admiral Not Empire Whats not to say Starfleet doesnt have a dozen Flagships? 1 for all its Admirals , Generals . im Reminded of Air Force One , Air Force One isnt the name of 1 Air Craft , Any Aircraft that the president flies on is automaticaly named Air force one , samething as the flagship thing.

This all comes down to the fact that this is all Speculation , theres no definitive answer until Mike Okuda , Rick Berman or one of those guys decides to stick it in an Episode or Movie or in the Encyclopedia.

------------------
"Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?"
~Homer "The Simpsons"
http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2]

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 04, 2000).]
 

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :
 
I'd agree with Dhunter's last post... but...

Look back at the USS Constitution (present day US Navy flagship, "Old Ironsides"). She's doubtless the US Navy flagship, but I guarantee there's no admiral on board! The question isn't whether the Ent-E (or any Ent other than D, for that matter) was A flagship; was she THE flagship of the whole Federation?

I'd say Aban Rune's idea is much closer to the mark. Kirk's Enterprise had a tremendous effect on the UFP and Starfleet. I think that's the best evidence presented so far that Starfleet keeps an Enterprise as the flagship. Not that I AGREE that they do, I'm just saying it's the best evidence anyone's presented.

And, as Sol said, it's all speculation at this point anyway... what if the next movie is a VGR-themed story and we don't see the Ent-E at all! (Gasp!)

------------------
Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

[This message has been edited by Dane Simri (edited January 04, 2000).]
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Conjecture all you want, but, basically, the only thing that we know is the E-D was the Starfleet flagship. That was explicitly stated on screen.

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"...more people buy Harry Potter novels than the works of Alexander Pope, but that's no measure of their quality."
-Tom Aylward-Nally, December 29, 1999
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Speak it Dane Simri!! Yeah we are talking about the Federation's flagship, not a specific squadron or admiral's flagship. We know such a thing exists because Picard said "She has no business serving on any Starfleet ship let alone the Flagship, MY ship!" about Ensign Ro in the ep of the same name.

(I think this is what you were reffering to TSN)

You seem to be getting a little flustered DHunter. We're all just having fun here. Calm down, take a breath, use some periods... =)

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx


 

Posted by Devilman on :
 
AMEN TSN!

conjecture to the power of infinty!!!
thats a good description of this topic!

..just curious tangent though....
Remember the Battle of wolf359? That was supposed to be one of the biggest battles in Fedration History, yet how many ships were there fighting it????

Only a measly few, compared to the more recent (budgetly-boosted) battles on Deep Space Nine eps with the Dominion!

The 7th fleet had what - 114 ships or something???
Shit, thats heaps, and its only the SEVENTH FLEET!

And consider - when VGER (a borg subcollective) threated eary, the ld Enterprise was the ONLY ship i range - ONE SHIP defending earth?????? Guess there wasnt much ship back then eh?

Then in Generations, the Enty-B was the only ship in range to help the El-Aurian Refugees - and she was in Earths Solar System at the time! Anotehr case of 1 ship defending earth?? Years later, and it still seems like there are a lack of starships to go around!

So now, just a hundred years on or so, the federation fleet only seemed to have a few ships to defend earth agains its greatest threat - the Borg!

Suddenly, a couple of years later,its seems that hundreds of starships have been created!!!!!!
How else would these huge battles with the dominion be possible???

I agree that it seems unlikely that the Federation could pump out 25 sovvys in such a short space of time (for example), but there it is!

The ship building curve seems logarithmic!
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Well, comparing ship buildups during war time to throwing together a seat of the pants offensive against a surprise attack by the Borg isn't really fair. They had to scrounge together whatever ships were in the vacinity of Sector 001 when the Borg attacked. However, the very fact that there are even battle fleets composed during the war prooves that Starfleet has now organized its ships for a war effort. Most likely the majority of exploratory and colonization activities were put on hold so those ships could join the various fleets.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx


 

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :
 
Actually the USS Constitusion (US Navy) does have a commanding officer I believe , Commander Forestor if im not mistaken and the reason it is the Flagship is because it flies the Flag of the Secretary of Defence.

Starfleet is divided into fleets , we know this from several eps of Ds9 which spoke of the "7th Fleet" which is probobley the fleet assigned to Bajorian Sector , I think that when Picard said that the Enterprise was the Flagship he might have ment that it was the Flagship of a particular fleet. But taking into concideration the fact that Starfleet is almost totaly based on the US Navy im willing to concide to the idea of the Enterprise being the Flagship of Starfleet as a whole , The Enterprise probley represents the USS Constitusion of the US Navy seeing as they both were legendary ships .


Oh , If i came off flustered in my last posts , i didnt mean to , i just really like these discusions especialy in a place like flare where everyone is real nice , knows what they are talking about and has somthing to add to discusions instead of just critizing.

I mean where else can a discusion about the Sovereign Class get 120 Replies ? all of them excellant and really adding somthing to our knowledge of trek :-)

Anyway I just really wanted to thank everyone for giving me such a great welcome in true trek fashion .

Thank You Again.

------------------
"Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?"
~Homer "The Simpsons"

http://www.geocities.com/travlyn2

[This message has been edited by Dhunter (edited January 05, 2000).]
 

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
The thing to remember about Wolf 359 isn't how many ships were lost, but the ease with which they were dispatched.

------------------
"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

 

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :
 
Dhunter... close again, but...

The current commander of USS Constitution is CMDR William J. Forest; you can check out his web page at: http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/cobio.html
I never said the Constitution didn't have a commander; I said that it probably wasn't an admiral.

Oh, and according to the US Naval History Center, the Constitution is the "Flagship of the US Fleet." I looked at all the pictures on the website, and the only flags they show her flying are the US flag and the Navy standard. Check it out at: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq68-2.htm

I think Aban Rune's quote from "Ens. Ro" implies that Ent-D was THE Starfleet flagship. All else is basically conjecture.

------------------
Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

 

Posted by Marko Latin on :
 
Everybody keeps talking about what ship is the flagship of the federation but that isn't the topic...this has gotten totally out of hand and i'm closing the post because nobody reads the actual request set by me and everybody is wondering of the subject...the pages 4,5, and 6 don't have anything to do with the topic...sorry.

Now you can try posting in "Defiant battle reports" i could use some info...

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Dream on...in the end...dreams are everything...

 

Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
 
quote:
I could use some info on the sovereign class' firepower and other stats that battles depend on... And now many ships it could take on and win...

There is no answer to your question because there IS no answer to the question available. No information about such things has been revealed in any canonical form. Personally, I get tired of people asking such questions, because it all biols down to the fact that the Sovereign Class can take on whatever the writers WANT it to take on... The only FIXED stats are the numbers of phasers and torp launchers, as they are physically evident on the model and CGI mesh.

quote:
As what is the sovereign class registered? Dreadnought? Warship? Heavy Cruiser?

"Explorer" is the only answer you're ever going to get out of anyone with any canonical importance.

------------------
Sheridan: "Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless and totally consistant with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon..."
Kosh: "Good."
Sheridan: "I REALLY hate it when you do that..."
Kosh: "Good."

SapphireEclipse Productions
http://sapphireeclipse.virtualave.net/
 

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
The Vorlon speaks the truth. You want to take a guess at how many threads wander off topic?

------------------
"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore


 



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