Total ripoff of the DS9TM blueprints. We can only guess that the text will be a total ripoff of the DS9TM as well. That seems to be the general trend nowdays - earlier we had conflicting sizes, but at least we had discussion and thought placed into whatever materials were published. Nowdays, everybody seems to be copying the DS9TM.
Boris
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[This message has been edited by Boris (edited May 09, 2000).]
Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :
When was this image published? I recall Chris Gough sending me something very similar to that image you have posted well before the DS9 tm was released. You may have the copying thing around backwards
------------------ "Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Is copied the right word, Boris? I mean, this is all fictional of course, but the design of the Defiant is either correct or it isn't.
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Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Ok, maybe adapting would be more accurate. My complaint is just that they used a single source, whereas accuracy could've been improved by going beyond the DS9TM. If the single source were the final word on the Defiant, it wouldn't be a problem, but it isn't.
Technically, the drawing isn't problematic - after all, Drexler explicitly states that it is current to stardate 53142 or something, which is past the end of the DS9 show. It seems very likely that the DS9TM actually represents the renamed and reregistered Sao Paulo, its quantum launchers removed and replaced with targetting sensors.
Boris
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Hey! I can see TWO shuttles in there!
------------------ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
If they removed the launchers then what did they use in WYLB? Strawberry jam? Or did they do a 180 every time and used the aft ones?
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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Altair: Actually, the Defiant Class holds three shuttles.
IMHO, this goes above and beyond the DS9TM. That drawing looks fantastic!! I also agree that the layout and what not of the Defiant is pretty much Public Domain when it comes to stuff like this. It can't really be considered plagiarism for putting things in the right place.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
I think Altair meant that he can actually see two shuttles on the drawing. He knows the Defiant holds three shuttles, but see two of the them.
------------------ 7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me." Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?" 7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."
Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :
Is that a shuttle right under the bridge?
And who came up with the Sao Paulo not having any torp launchers?
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Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
What I said was that Doug Drexler's deck plans are "current to stardate 53142" (look at the bottom of the foldouts). This is past the end of the show. Now, since the original Defiant was destroyed before that stardate (about SD 52600), the prints must be referring to the renamed and reregistered Sao Paulo.
"What You Leave Behind" probably took place around 529xx - the launchers were removed AFTER the DS9 show ended.
Boris
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited May 10, 2000).]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well, you can see through the cut-aways the 'windows' on the ventral side of the ship... although - they have in this picture made them more oblong - whereas the model has teeny-tiny square 'windows'
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
Well, there are at least landing pads. But why would the Sao Paulo have the torp launchers removed? It's like getting bullets minus the gun.
------------------ "Life is like a dick, sometimes you just wanna f**k it" -Yun Zhu USS Vanderbilt NCC-73121, Vanderbilt Class Starship
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Yes, I know the Defiant has 3 shuttles. I was surprised to see the one under the bridge, which was seen in 'The Sound Of Her Voice'.
------------------ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
(-=\V/=-)
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I like the fact that the drawing includes landing pads like the ship's MSD, though I wonder why a ship "wasn't designed for atmospheric entry" would be design with landing pads.
Altair: didn't mean to offend. I just misunderstood your comment. I'll have to check my model, but I didn't think the circular structure on the ventral side lined up exactly with the bridge circle on the dorsal side. I thougt the shuttle bay was farther aft than the bridge.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
That's okay Aban, I can see why it was confusing...
About those 2 circles, my models show them as just out of alignment. I think it is a difference af about 10 to 20 meters.
------------------ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
(-=\V/=-)
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
The new launchers are probably located in the nacelles - Rick Sternbach's text places them in the forward nacelle cowling.
Boris
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The landing pads would be quite useful in landings on airless planets, now wouldn't they?
Why land on a planet where Paramount can't film you because of the extra costs of sets and effects? For one, the ship could hide on the surface, just like the Ferengi hid in that crater in the Battle of Maxia. Some repairs could be more easily carried out if the ship could land next to the raw materials, instead of having to use transporters or shuttles to haul the stuff up for orbital repairs. Starfleet could have outposts set up on airless planetoids, and the ships could be expected to land there for tanking and repairs and reloads.
Save for the humungous Sovereigns, every modern ship class seems to have landing paws. Perhaps there has been a breakthrough in materials technology, making ships lighter? Or in antigrav tech?
Or perhaps the pads are there for emergency crash-landings, just like the pads on the Constitution saucers. The Defiants or Intrepids or Prometheii or Novas do not have saucers to separate, so their actual main bodies have to feature these pads (although their worth in a crash landing seems suspect).
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
When was it ever said in the show that the Defiant can't land on a normal planet? In "Starship Down" Sisko said something like "I know she (the Defiant) wasn't meant for it" before they entered that planets atmosphere. The thing is, that planet had incredible gravity and powerful atmospheric currents like Jupiter. My point, you ask? Just because a ship can't land on Jupiter doesn't mean it can't land on Earth.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
I agree. The fact that the Defiant actually survived that atmosphere to me is enough proof that the Defiant can land on at least M-Class planets. Why else would the ship have landing struts??
------------------ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
(-=\V/=-)
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
Ron Moore (who more or less created the ship) didn't know about the landing pads/capability from the MSD when asked online. Fortunately, it is not clear from the script whether the Defiant was not meant for landing at all, or just in this particular atmosphere.
Boris
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I thought the consensus was that the deffie had landing paws for touch-down on landing pads in the larger starbases...
Andrew
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
