I was just looking at the script for "Interface", and someone mentions the Excelsior and the *Noble*. Was the name actually onscreen? We can even suppose that the Equinox's class ship is meant here, if we go with the Noble-class designation featured on the dedication plaque.
It is possible that the ship was later renamed to Nova, and with it the entire class of vessels. Or maybe now there are two different ways of referring to Equinox-type ships: Nova-class for sticklers to proper nomenclature, and Noble-class for those who don't care that a renamed ship renamed their entire class.
Boris
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yes, it was mentioned onscreen, but the encyclopedia claims it was the USS Nobel. I guess it was just supposed to be a mispronunciation on the part of the speaker (either Picard or Riker, as I recall).
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Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
Well, I doubt that it was a Nova Class. Wasn't the ship seen on screen or was it that episode with Satie and the whole encyclopedia mixup of the Oberth/Olympic Class I'm thinking of?
------------------ "Life's a bitch, then you die" -USS Luzon, Vanderbuilt Class starship
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm not sure what you mean...the Nobel wasn't seen, and is listed in the encyclopedia as an Olympic class vessel. Okuda's way of saying that the Olympic class really does exist in the main timeline, perhaps.
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Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
I generally got the impression that the Noble was an Olympic Class starship since we never heard of a Nova Class ship then and if M.Okuda says the Noble is an Olympic then we assume he is right.
------------------ "We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy
I registries were consistent and followed some sort of chronological order (thanks First Contact) the presence of the 5**** registry on the Pasteur would be evidence that this ship and its class exist in the current timeline - since 5**** ships are before the E-D was 'born'.
Andrew
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
AndrewR: What is wrong with First Contact?
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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Andrew: PLEASE don't be refering to the fact that "new" ships like the Akira and Steamrunner have lower registries than ships like the Galaxy Classes. The ships we saw in FC, were not new classes of ships. We had just never seen them before.
If that's not what you meant, then...nevermind.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
I wasn't aware that Okuda spelled the name Nobel and made it into Olympic class. In that case, the Encyclopedia may override the script, as it's probably gonna be more influential in the future.
Speaking of spelling, the Jenol*n is spelled Jenolan in the first half of the script, and Jenolen in the second half! The Br*ttain is spelled Brattain all over.
Boris
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Michael_T is referring to several issues...the Oberth-class Biko, from, er, that Old-West Worf episode, is referred to the the encyclopedia as Olympic-class. Meanwhile, the Oberth-class ship from "The Drumhead" is apparently the USS Cochrane, with an NCC-x000 registry (I need to check the episode), according to the Star Trek Companion, although the encyclopedia doesn't know this.
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[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited May 18, 2000).]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
"A Fistful of Data's"
NCC-8000 iirc.
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Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
Oh, thanks Frank. I completely confused all those episodes...
------------------ "Life's a bitch, then you die" -USS Luzon, Vanderbuilt Class starship
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Aban and Altair... I'm just referring to the fact that (yep they may have just been refitted) that the four new ships seen... have lower registries with the aspects of the newer Sovereign - I know its a lengthily debated topic - but if I'm going to talk registries - i.e. the Pasteur - I have to talk Steamrunner/Akira registries too. Its either - the registries a chronologically ordered... thus the Pasteur is quite an older ship in the AGT... future. Or that registries are assigned in groups and that if there are numbers left over once the original run of ships have been made - then they can use them freely... thus allowing for 'newer looking ships' to have older numbers. This also caters for the Constitution numbers... 1700 may indeed have been the first Constitution the, Enterprise the second and so on, say till 1705. Then we it came time to build some more - the production of ships that were around the 1300's had finished and there were numbers there available to be used... so they used them. This also accounts for the large jump in reistry numbers between Star Trek VI and Star Trek: TNG...
This ALSO accounts for the first three Danubes... all next to each other. When it came time for new danubes - the 'registry appliers' then had the choice of using the next number 74600 or what ever (around the time of Voyager) or picking a number that had been unused previously... say 74515 (a random example). The probably with the turn over of the five digits - disallowed any new ships with four numbers... or like when you want to get a new telephone number - you have to pay for easy to remember numbers like 555-1111 instead of something more random 555-9813.
Anyone follow that?
Andrew
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Yes, most of it.
But I'm still a follower of the idea that a higher number automatically means a newer ship. And that in FC the ships were older ships, which we have seen there for the first time.
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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Concur. The fact that names of starships can be reused once a ship of a certain name has been retired from service or destroyed makes it all the more important that the registry numbers be arranged in an easy-to-understand manner. The whole point of having the regos is to keep track of and accurately id the ships. Bigger regos equaling newer ships (not newer classes)just makes sense and seems to have born out for the most part.
As for the messed up Constitution numbers in TOS, there were so many things that were messed up in TOS, I'm willing to believe almost anything.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Higher registry doesn't automatically mean a newer ship. We know for a fact that the USS Bradbury w/ a registry of NX-72307 was already in service in 2366 (it was supposed to pick Wesley up in season 3's "Ménage à Troi"), while the Sutherland, w/ a lower registry of NCC-72015, was not launched until 2367 (according to its dedication plaque). However, registries most likely are chronological by the date the ships were assigned to be built. Just not the date of when they actually were built.
------------------ "Numerous painful experiences can be caused by having (and especially using) a large penis." -J. Ralf Lenz, president, Large Penis Support Group
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Also ships are of various sizes which mean different lengths of time for construction. The Bradbury could have been a smaller ship than the Sutherland which even though it has a higher rego means it could have been in service sooner.
------------------ 7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me." Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?" 7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."
[This message has been edited by PopMaze (edited May 19, 2000).]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I was also thinking/hinting/saying that there might have been jumps in registry numbers... so that gaps of unused numbers occur... thus these numbers eg 43006->43017 might be available (and never used) so a new Prometheus class ship might be able to use these numbers... and that each new 'block' of ships that are started might start at a round number... like 75020 and there might be only 7 of these ships but in the mean time a new block of ships were started so instead of starting straight from 75027 they start at 75030 incase another 3 ships were okayed for production and there wasn't a mishap.
or yeah, the FC ships might have been older unseen ships refitted with new equipment - They could have been from the Cardassian Wars and then mothballed... then with the Destruction of the Odyssey they were hauled out again and fitted with new equipment.
Andrew
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
But why would SF skip those numbers?
peon: "Admiral, we need these work orders authorized..."
admiral: "Alright, let's see here... New starships to be built... What registry number are they up to?"
peon: "The next available number is 71339, sir."
admiral: "7-13-39? That's my ex-wife's birthdate... Let's skip that number. Hell, let's just skip everything up to 73476."
peon: "Why 73476, sir?"
admiral: "Hell if I know. I just picked it randomly..."
------------------ "Numerous painful experiences can be caused by having (and especially using) a large penis." -J. Ralf Lenz, president, Large Penis Support Group
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe the DIDN'T skip the numbers it was just that there were PLANS to build say 20 starships in one 'batch' but they only ended up doing 15 so there were 5 numbers left over... in the mean time - new orders or batches of other classes were already assigned/being built - and that they 'secured' the next 20 numbers... then say a few years later - if they wanted to use the empty five numbers from the first batch... they could - if they wanted to. so its ROUGHLY in order - but there are gaps from unmade starships - where other ships could use those numbers... if they wanted.
This also helps explain the four digit numbers and even the Grissom having a three digit number - there is only 1000 three digit numbers to use - so after say The Undiscovered country all 3 digit numbers had been used... either from their first batches or from newer starships taking unused numbers... (from unmade/assigned ships.)
Andrew
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I'll buy that answer.
------------------ 7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me." Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?" 7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I don't think Starfleet would go back and reuse a number like that. I would think that, once the number has been assigned as "such-and-such fleet yard will build a such-and-such-class ship w/ this number", it would either happen that way, or not at all.
------------------ "Numerous painful experiences can be caused by having (and especially using) a large penis." -J. Ralf Lenz, president, Large Penis Support Group
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
So, are you meaning 'reuse' in that it has already been assigned to a particular starship?? I was just saying that it might have been 'reserved' to be used... but say after 10 years and a board of bureaucrats, only 10 out of 20 starships were actually made, the rest of the 10 registry numbers were only reserved, not used. So there are some gaps - that can be later used.
This might explain that even thought the Constitution was 1700??? or whatever - later batch of connies could take unused registries from earlier 1017 etc.
Andrew
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, not actually "used", but, as you said "reserved". So, in this case, I feel that, if it's been reserved, it can't be used, except for the ship that it's been reserved for. If that ship isn't built, the registry isn't used.
If SF were "un-reserving" reg. numbers the way you suggest, there's no way in hell they'd be coming up on the heels of 80000, the way they are...
------------------ "Numerous painful experiences can be caused by having (and especially using) a large penis." -J. Ralf Lenz, president, Large Penis Support Group
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
OK, maybe they did the unreserving in times before the 5 digits... but once they broke 5 digits - they just left the gaps... maybe when they are getting close to 6 digits - they'll fill in the gaps again?
Andrew
------------------ "chocolate cherries allamanda" - Datura, Tori Amos
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
A random and belated comment:
The Sutherland wasn't necessarily launched in "Redemption". She could simply have been undergoing repairs which weren't quite completed when Data took command of the vessel. That would preserve the NCC order just fine.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
IIRC, the Sutherland's launch date is from its dedication plaque...
------------------ "Numerous painful experiences can be caused by having (and especially using) a large penis." -J. Ralf Lenz, president, Large Penis Support Group