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Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

This one has been bugging me for a while, but I've never gotten around to posting it. As some of you remember, it was put in I believe Star Trek: The Magazine some design sketches of how the Sovereign's yacht would drop from the bottom of the main torpedo launcher on the unside of the saucer for Insurrection. In these sketches, we can see the bay inside, and part of the torpedo launcher. Unfortunatly, what we do see of the torpedo launcher, is the very front, where the torpedo exits the ship. This picture shows that the launcher briefly turns downward at about a 45 degree angle, then returns to horizontal before the end. Now, the question is, how could a torpedo, which would be at tremendous speed at that point in the launch sequence, suddenly change direction like that inside the tube? I think that this Yacht bay thing needs a lot more thinking out.

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey

The 359 Webpage

Posted by Delta Vega (Member # 283) on :

Maybe they kept in the middle of somesort of magnetic field, so the torpedo stays in the center of the tube and dosn't brush into the wall. Just an idea.

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

I thought I had that sketch on my harddrive. I have it in a book but I don't have access to a scanner rightnow. Could someone post it please. Thanks.

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"Why can't we be friends?'--Smash Mouth

The web page is not completed yet, but come by and check it out. :)
Quantum Threshold

Avalon Sector

Posted by Cartman on :

Jello, this is my 1st time posting here.

About the Enterprise-E's Torpedo Tube and the Captains yacht. You got this from a design sketch, does anyone have any good pics of the launch scene from Insurrection. I trust video more then a drawing.

BTW, you guys find any wrong info in this?

U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-E
-Sovereign Class Starship
-Commanded by: Captain Jean-Luc Picard
-Length: 685.2 Meters
-Height: 88 Meters
-Number of Decks: 24
-Launched: 2372 Stardate:49027.5
-Constructed: San Francisco Yards
-Number of Phasers: 12 Type-X Phaser Arrays
-Number of Torpedo Tubes: 5 Quantum/Photon Torpedo Tubes
-Saucer Seperation: Yes
-Main Bridge: Deck 1
-Main Engineering: Deck 16
-Sickbay: Deck 8/16
-Captain Picard's Living Quarters: Deck 7
-Max Impulse: Unknown
-Max Warp: Unknown
-Number of Crew: 700-900
-Number of Shuttlebays: 2
-Type of Shuttles: XI
-Captain's Yacht: Yes
-Name of Captain's Yacht: Cousteau
-Length of Captain's Yacht: 33.53 Meters
-Bio Neural Gel Packs: Yes
-Hull: Duranium

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[This message has been edited by Cartman (edited June 19, 2000).]

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

[Dr. Evil Speak] Right [/Dr. Evil Speak]

Anywho, Cartman is the new guy, I brought him here, he is the "Sovereign Expert", lets see how he does with the big boys. Oh, and he's a Crazy Canuck

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey

The 359 Webpage

Posted by Cartman on :

Ty, Matt. I do consider myself an "expert" on the Sovereign Class. Ever since November 1996 I have been been going crazy trying to get as much info on the Sovereign class, I love them.

PS. Yes, I AM CANADIAN

And arent we all a little Crazy?

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Respect My Authoritha!

Posted by Trip Tucker (Member # 297) on :

Hey, I'm Canadian too!
This rocks.

Hey, here's a good question: Everyone seems to be an expert one at least one ship or two. I'm the best with the Equinox and the Prometheus. You guys?

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Is it possible to be an "expert" on the Prometheus???
I thought there wasn't any info on it?

About the plumbing of the torp-tube, it could be that the torps are hauled down the first section of the tube, then halted at the "turn", where they can be fired one-after-another, like with a machine-gun clip.

I think the tube would have some sort of magnetic railing device or gauss-device to push the slugs out, and then the torp's own propulsion-system takes over.
But the tracking is poor. When Defiant fired quantum-volleys, they hardly ever compensated at all for target movement.
Guess the producers doesn't want Starfleet to be too good, eh?

No, I say give me the Prometheus-launcher!! That's one slick photon-system, flying around until it has found a target. You can just pump out those babies and tell them to track enemy-signatures!
That's what the borg/voy-torps did against Species 8472, didn't they???

Oh, and Cartman? I don't trust the E's FIVE torpedo-launchers or saucer-separation capabilities. It certainly hasn't been proven in the movies. Has it been confirmed from Big "P" or something, or is it just wishful thinking?

And what does TPTB mean??? The Powers That Be?

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I'm not an atheist, I'm a maybeist�

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited June 20, 2000).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

TPTB is indeed 'The Powers That Be'.

5 torpedo launchers seems right:
- 1 Q-torp in front of the Captain's Yacht.
- 2 Photon torpedo launchers under the deflector dish (used to destroy the tractor beam which was holding the Defiant).
- 2 rear torpedo launchers (one on the lowest part of the ship that you can find, the other somewhere above the saucer shuttlebay, as seen in Insurrection where the torpedos went over the nacelles).

Saucer seperation: Seen in one of the latest scetches. Seperation lines are clearly visible on the Ent-E AND match the scetch.

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"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited June 20, 2000).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

BTW: The Ent-E seems to have a modest tracking system. Both the Q-torps aimed at the Borg Sphere and the torpedos fired at the Son'a ships were going in a slightly curved trajectory.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited June 20, 2000).]

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Exactly what I wanted to hear!
There'll be some serious freeze-framing tonite!

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I'm not an atheist, I'm a maybeist�

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Well, I suppose I could be the expert on the Nebula class... A friend of mine is an expert on the Ambassador class...

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Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

Here's that sketch with the saucer separation, though that just might be a neat idea and not something that they used. We will have to wait to see until ST:X to see if it does.

Here's that supposed torpedo launcher above the Shuttlebay.

That was designed to be a shuttle observation area to coordinate multiple shuttle launches and recoveries.

And here is a sketch of the rear torpedo launchers:

So it does have two in front, two in back, and one under the captain's yacht.

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"Why can't we be friends?'--Smash Mouth

The web page is not completed yet, but come by and check it out. :)
Quantum Threshold

Avalon Sector

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Crap, everyone's an expert on a class but me!

My life is ruined.

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Smiley: "Ah, Pattern Suicide."
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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

Why specialize? I enjoy having advanced knowledge on everything. All goes to that whole "Unquestioned Lord & Master of the Universe" thing...

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel

Posted by Cartman on :

We also can't forget the MSD of the Enterprise-E. It shows Foward and aft Torpedo Launchers other then the "Main" Launcher above the yacht. And the MSD also shows what looks like a Battle Bridge. So I do beleive that she (My Baby) can seperate.

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Respect My Authoritha!

Posted by Cartman on :

And about the shuttle observation area, thats what it is. We know that it's not a Torpedo Launcher(s) because in Insurrection, when the launch the shuttle, we can see inside it, and what we see in not a Torpedo Tube. The Torpedo's fired at the So'na in Insurrection were fired from the wrong location, in other words the FX guys goofed.

And yes, I do consider myself an expert on the Sovereign Class.

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Respect My Authoritha!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Done freeze-framing!!

In the first scene of First Contact, when our lady slowly glides past the camera, showing her back, you can see the shuttlebay-lookout in the back of the neck. Those are most certainly windows.

Another tidbit: When Picard completes the maglock-cycle and the borg deflector-dish dances away in the void, the outgoing zoom of the Enterprise gives a great view of the dark dual-launchers under the deflector dish.

The stern launcher is harder, but a dark spot does show on the end of her belly, when flying by the Defiant. The two dual-launchers are of similar design so they prolly get their eggs from the same basket.

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How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
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Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

If you ask me, the screwed up Insurrection launcher could be in that "spine" directly behind the shuttlebay. In the picture BK put up, it would be about where that shuttle is that's flying in. Also, if the Sovereign can seperate, I doubt if she can reattach with ease. Remember, the engineering hull of the Sovereign has no impulse engines for movement, so I doubt if the ship was designed to operate as two seperate entities, and that the manuever would only be used as a last resort.

I also found the picture that shows the torpedo launcher, Star Trek: The Magazine, Issue #4 (August 1999), page 29. You can clearly see from the sketch that the launcher changes direction at the very tip. Also, if the Yacht is gone from the ship, the torpedo launcher is really exposed to damage, not exactly the best idea I've seen.

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey

The 359 Webpage

[This message has been edited by The359 (edited June 20, 2000).]

Posted by Cartman on :

I see what your talking about Matt, and I just checked Insurrection, there the same. I think it works just like a gun (as mentioned), Torpedo's move into place really fast, they sit in the tube near the end point, and when the word in given, they all just file out, (REALLY FAST).

And while were on the subject of the Cousteau, anyone notice that it has small escape pods on the foward port and starboard sides?

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Posted by Cartman on :

oh yes, and about the Aft Torpedo Tube(s) fired in Insurrection, I don't think there are any aside from the ones we know are there. The FX guys goofed, plain and simple, cuz that "spine" don't look very much like a Torpedo Tube.

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Are those triangles on the bow of the Cousteau really lifepod covers, or just big paws for the forward landing gear?

As for the aft torpedo tubes, I fail to see why everybody considers the scene in "Insurrection" to be a goof-up. The torps could easily be coming from underneath the ship, from the well-established twin aft launchers. Contrary to some statements, they do NOT fly between the nacelles and the camera. They leave the vicinity of the Enterprise within a few frames and move rapidly to the distance, while at the same time the Enterprise performs a banking maneuver and the camera moves slightly - so there is a lot of leeway in estimating the location of the launcher, and the twin ventral one is certainly a possibility.

And perhaps the saucer torp tube next to the yacht berth is so short because it cannot fire at warp speeds? Perhaps it's only intended for "swim-out" quantum torpedoes that leave the ship mostly under their own propulsion? Thus, the ship would need those twin forward launchers for more traditional warp launches.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Damn you guys post fast!

I don't know if this is mentioned:

About the lowest rear torpedo launcher: The picture above shows 2 tubes. The flyby towards the Phoenix clearly shows only one tube.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Didn't ST: First Contact use both CGI and the physical model Enterprise-E? And the torp launcher above the Coustau a dual launcher?

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I think the "First Contact" flyby shows an aft *tractor beam emitter*, not the torp tubes. The emitter is a steerable assembly similar to those the E-D supposedly had, and it does look like a single flat torp tube. The real tubes are supposedly immediately above the emitter.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Recap of visibly identified tubes:

1 tube in front of the Yacht
2 tubes below the deflector
1 tube on the bottom rear just above (what is most probably) the tractor beam emmiter, again this is clearly visible in the flyby towards the Phoenix. I saw that myself just a few minutes ago, and my brother agreed with it without a doubt when I asked him.

That makes 4 official tubes.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Cartman on :

Sorry to say, but there are still 2 aft torpedo tubes. I just watched that scene, you can't make out anything cept a big black spot, and that can't all be a Torpedo tube. Plus, the blueprints for the construction of the Ent-E model for First Contact shows that there are indeed 2 Torpedo Tubes. So the official count is still 5 Torpedo Tubes.

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Respect My Authoritha!

[This message has been edited by Cartman (edited June 21, 2000).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Just rewatched the scenes in question.
You could be right there...

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Cartman on :

I am...
BTW, I wonder if all the Enterprise-E's torpedo tubes can fire Quantum Torpedo's, or is it just the one.

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Respect My Authoritha!

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

As I said before: In First Contact it looks like the Ent-E is firing the 2 photon torpedos destoying the tracktor beam that was holding the Defiant.

And now for another Voyager nit: In Dreadnought we get to hear that the Q-torps in the Cardassian Torpedo could be used by Voyager...

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

I've wondered about that two. In the DS9:TM *shudders*, it says that the materials to make Quantum Torpedoes are really rare, so they are only delivered to ships on the front line of the Dominion War like DS9 and the Defiant.

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"Why can't we be friends?'--Smash Mouth

The web page is not completed yet, but come by and check it out. :)
Quantum Threshold

Avalon Sector

Posted by Cartman on :

Altair, what I mean is I wonder if all of the Enterprise-E's Torpedo tubes can fire both Photon and Quantum Torpedo's. Like can the Enterprise fire Quantum Torpedo's from it's aft tubes, or can they only fire Quantums from the forword Tube that we saw fire Quantums in FC

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Respect My Authoritha!

[This message has been edited by Cartman (edited June 24, 2000).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I believe Picard said "load quantum torpedo's".

Those photon torpedo'd could also have come from the tubes below the deflector, IF they even came from the Ent-E.

I guess we will never know for sure... I hope the next movie will clear things up.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

As I've said on RAST, a magrail is a magrail. Probes, photorps, TCDs, quantorps...they're all fired from the same damn launcher. The only reason the idea of the separate launcher assembly persists is because of the initial FC concept of Picard popping open the one they considered & firing them that way. Then they realized that it was STUPID.

Think about it: you've got a brand-new warhead assembly. It's small enough to utilize a casing size comparable to the existing inventory & thus utilize that launch hardware. Do you A) design a brand-new launching system that can only be incorporated into newbuild vessels & retrofitted into some older ships or B) design the casing to fit the current standardized launch assemblies?

Y'don't have to be a member of the Appropriations Board t'figure THAT one out.

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel

[This message has been edited by Shik (edited June 25, 2000).]