Flare Sci-Fi Forums: TNG "Redemtion, part II"

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Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :

In this episode, on the bridge of the USS Sutherland, we see this schematic: http://nzcabac.future.easyspace.com/StarFleet/NebulaVariant3.htm
I think the consensus has been that the diagram shows a nebula-variant, and not the Sutherland herself. I just saw the episode again yesterday after several years, and I noticed something. Towards the end of the show, Data is checking on a computerscreen prior to him firing on the romulans, and just to left of the screen there appears to be a diagram of a nebula class, side-view. This diagram does not appear to be the same as the one above. My vcr just broke, ruining the tape :-( , so I�m wondering if anybody has a screencap of this diagram?

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

That's the usual dorsal view of a Nebula-class, only with a "tail", a prolongation of the engineering-hull.

Your sketch above the picture seems to indicate two holes in the aft engineering-section but those are just dark fields representing the tactical pod.
The two parallel side-structures are of course nacelles but the tips are hidden under the saucer in a dorsal-view.

However, the tactical pod on the ship in the screencap DOES seem to be covering less of the saucer-area than the standard nebula-pod, revealing a more pushed-back position of it.

I dunno!?

I have a newly-purchased copy of Red.I-II. Maybe I'll re-watch the scene tonite.

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[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited July 04, 2000).]

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Here's the side view:
http://frankg.dgne.com/sff/nebside.jpg

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Interesting... That top view suggests that it's a Miarecki-style Nebula. However, the side view looks like a regular Nebbie, but w/ the nacelles lowered...

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Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :

Nimrod: First, the image isn�t mine, I just linked to the neutral zone, so it�s his pic, (well, his site anyway). Second, your conclusions sounds about right.
Frank: Thanks.
Tsn: Yeah, the lowered nacelles looks weird, unless what we�re seeing is the same as on a number of diagrams. That is, lowering the nacelles so as to get a better view of the main body of the ship. Look at USS Voyager as an example of what I mean.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I guess Okuda took one of those diagrams cut-and-pasted from a Galaxy ship to roughly approximate a Nebula (see the sketch in TNG: The Continuing Mission et al), and added the new triangular pod to that. The rough approximation in turn is very similar to the Miarecki ship because Miarecki cut-and-pasted, too (with plastic parts, though, and not with a Macintosh).

Even the side view seems to have an elongated tail IMHO. Or at least could have, amidst all that blurring.

Or perhaps the top picture has the triangle pod located so far aft for the same reason the nacelles are moved in the side picture: to reveal more of the hull?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

It does. That Okudagram has been reproduced somewhere, (maybe in The Art of Star Trek?) and I remember seeing quite clearly that there was a tail.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

So, the Sutherland was a Miarecki-style Nebula? We didn't see the ship itself onscreen, did we?

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Nope, we did see it. It was the first use of the Nebula model with the triangle thing.

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

Yup, it was the full photographic/filming model with the weapons pod. Not a small plastic or desktop model.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Oh, hell...

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"I'm sick of you little girl and boy groups: all you do is annoy me, so I have been sent here to destroy you..."
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Posted by Joshua Bell (Member # 327) on :

If I may hazard a guess at what happened behind the scenes...

The tech team looks at the script and decides that the Sutherland should be a Nebula class ship. Okuda (or a flunky) goes off to do the Okudagrams for the bridge based on the existing (Miarecki) Nebula model. Simultaneously, the visual effects team takes the existing model and starts working on the photographic miniature - with updates to the design c/o Sternbach.

By the time everybody compares notes, it's either too late to update the Okudgram - or they figure no-one will ever notice.

(Gods, if you guys knew what it was like on the newsgroups 10 years ago... you guys are doing things that would blow everyone back then away. Keep it up!)

Now the real world explanation? Erm... the ship is running off-the-shelf "Nebula LCARS OS release 2.0" since "Nebula LCARS OS release 3.0" was too buggy?

[This message has been edited by Joshua Bell (edited July 06, 2000).]

Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :

Well, the comment made by The_Tom made me dig up my star trek books. I searched "The art of star trek" and found nothing. But then I took a deep breath, and thought about it. It did have a familiar ring to it, this mysterious okudagram. Then, eureka! I looked in "Star trek the next generation; the continuing mission", and look what I found: http://hem.passagen.se/pinasov/nebulaeng.jpg
This Nebula has the elongated enginering hull that appears to exist in both screencaps from "Redemption, part II" on my site.

(ooops, Timo said this already :-), yeah, well, at least you all get to see the pic!)

[This message has been edited by pIn'a' Sov (edited July 07, 2000).]

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Ehh, pin'a'Sov, Timo said that a few replies earlier.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Joshua: Didn't the regular Nebula model (though w/ different pod) already exist, à la the Phoenix?

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"I'm sick of you little girl and boy groups: all you do is annoy me, so I have been sent here to destroy you..."
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Posted by Joshua Bell (Member # 327) on :

Yeah, well, sure, torpedo a perfectly good idea.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The "Continuing Mission" schematic is apparently a very, very rough sketch cut-and-pasted from Galaxy class Okudagrams - probably on Okuda's Macintosh when Greg Jein or Rick Sternbach asked him for a drawing where he could play with new ideas for the upper pod. The schematic is seen in "Redemption", but a ship corresponding to it is never seen. Apparently, Okuda had no 'grams on the real Nebula model even after its appearance in "The Wounded", so he threw together this rough approximation when needed. Later he probably worked out a proper 'gram, although I think no such 'gram was ever seen in any episode.

The "BoBW" Nebula study model is very similar to the schematic, especially in its final incarnation where it receives the triangular pod for an appearance on Sisko's tabletop. But it has the nacelles where they should be in all Nebulas, not mounted low as in the schematic. (No, the nacelles are not detached from the hull for better portrayal of secondary hull in the "Redemption" schematic. They are simply mounted on too long pylons.)

So if we accept all the schematics and all appearances of the various models, we now have no less than eight Nebula variants!

-"BoBW" study model with two tiny extra nacelles, then with those nacelles merged into a rollbar for faking a Phoenix tabletop, then with triangular pod for DS9 tabletop (that makes 3)

-USS Phoenix photo model (adding to 4)

-USS Sutherland photo model, plus her incorrect monitor schematic (that makes 6)

-USS Farragut, a refinement of the Sutherland model for silver screen glamor (we're up to 7 now)

-the CGI bastardization of the Nebula class (a total of 8)

Timo Saloniemi