This book has apparently been out for a week now, and I have yet to see anybody posting ship-related info that might be gleaned from it. I mean, the TNGComp gave us Wolf 359 ship names and a bit else.
Abybody got it yet?
------------------ "...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..." -Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I had no idea. It hasn't been at the bookstores around here, at least that I've been able to see. (They also don't have Mike Nelson's Mega Movie Cheese, which disappoints me greatly.)
But I am quite eager to get my hands on it. I'll go check again this weekend.
I just purchased a copy during my lunchbreak today. Although I've only casually skimmed through some select pages, so far it looks like there's no ship information at all. It does have some nice concept drawings, though.
------------------ Captain Tenille: "Oh, Simpson, you're like the son I never had." Homer: "And you're like the father I never visit."
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Concept drawings of what?
------------------ Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Yosemite Sam: "Well, I speak loudly and I carry a bigger stick...and I use it too!"
Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :
I browsed through the book at a bookstore in San Francisco. The book has no information on ships or classes as the last companion had. Information provided is about the writers, directors, actors and their characters, and the concepts and themes of an episode, an arc, or the series. This book is ideal for people who want to have knowledge on the processes of creating a show, which incidently is the intent of the authors.
------------------
takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Let me rephrase my earlier comment: There is one section I read that has some very interesting info about the Wolf 359 battle scene at the beginning of "Emissary":
"Robert Legato, then visual effects supervisor for DS9, was instructed to shoot the battle sequence before live-action production had commenced on the pilot. 'It was fun to do because I was allowed to make it up from scratch; there was no backlog of stock footage for it' he says. 'The script said that they were right in the middle of this big fierce, ugly battle, and I had tons of debris in all the shots. Ships that were burning, on fire, flying past the camera. I made sure that all of the debris had the correct names on it, the names of the ships that were mentioned in 'The Best of Both Worlds' (The Starships Tolstoy, Kyushu, Melbourne, and Saratoga were among those described as lost in the battle), so the episodes would tie together. But fate stepped in when the decision was made to shoot the live action as if the ships were *about* to enter into battle with the Borg, rather than joining them in mid-fray. 'I had to go back and take all the extraneous ships out,' he laments. 'It was a heartbreaker, because it was a ton of work and very good-looking stuff-much bigger than anything seen on a TNG show."
So it appears that there might have been Legato-created models of the Tolstoy and perhaps even the Apollo class Gage, since that ship was mentioned in the first draft of the script.
------------------ Captain Tenille: "Oh, Simpson, you're like the son I never had." Homer: "And you're like the father I never visit."
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ohhhhh and doesn't that mean that SOMEWHERE there is footage of this exquisitly sounding scene!?!
Andrew
------------------ "Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos
Posted by Cammodude on :
Are you talking about The Starfleet Starship Recognition Manual???
------------------ "If I knew you were coming I would have baked a cake...learned to sing....stop me Gage!" --Aurther The Journeyman Project 3
[This message has been edited by Cammodude (edited August 04, 2000).]
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
No, the DS9 Companion. The Starship Recognition Manual is a LUG book. I think...
------------------ "Fragile. Do not drop" --posted on a Boeing 757
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
So, there is most likely footage of the Gage and the Tolstoy!!!! Probably we should drop Legato a mail... if his e-mail adress is available.
------------------ Advertisement in the United Federation NewsPADD, SD 53675:
"Now for sale at your local dealer: Antares class vessels, as good as new! They can shapeshift! Everybody in the galaxy has one! Now for only $800!"
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
Wait, did the book mention about the scene where the Saratoga explodes? Maybe that has the stock footage of the Tolstoy?
------------------ The world is not enough, but it is such a perfect place to start my love And if you're strong enough, together we can take the world apart my love
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I believe what Legato meant was that he originally shot one battle scene with all the wrecked ships, but then scrapped that footage for the new footage of the undamaged Saratoga, Melbourne, Yamaguchi, and Bellerophon arriving. Either that, or it was the same footage but with all the wreckage removed and the undamaged ships inserted. Either way, we don't see any wreckage of ships at all in the revised footage, other than that floating saucer when the Saratoga explodes. Even that is too small to get any confirmation as to what ship it came from.
Another problem I just realized is that, most likely, Legato didn't confer with Okuda, Miarecki, or Jein about the design of the original BoBW ship models. Even though Legato made up new ships for the battle (such as the Gage), his design for the Kyushu was probably very different from the New Orleans class we all know and love. Since there was no original Tolstoy, that ship wouldn't have been a problem, though.
However, since this footage was never used, there's really no problem anyway. As for trying to email Legato if it's possible, let's try this time to just have *ONE* person (with the emphasis on the "one") do it.
------------------ Captain Tenille: "Oh, Simpson, you're like the son I never had." Homer: "And you're like the father I never visit."
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
One wonders... Did Bob Legato single-handedly design and build all those new ships, or what? I assume he used existing Starfleet ship models as much as possible, but it would seem logical for him to have used the regular modelmaking gang for creating the newbuilds. Okuda still did Arts for DS9, so he might know of the DS9 modelmakers.
I agree it's extremely unlikely that Legato would have used the models seen in "BoBW2" to represent the ships listed for "BoBW2" - most of the models would surely have disappeared by the time of shooting "Emissary". So perhaps it's just as well that we did not get to see all of that footage. But designs for the Tolstoy and the Gage would of course be cool, even if they are kitbashes of lower standards than the Miarecki and Jein ships of "BoBW2".
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
Timo, you seem to be in contact with Okuda. Can't you ask him if he knows from any designs for the Tolstoy and the Gage?
------------------ Advertisement in the United Federation NewsPADD, SD 53675:
"Now for sale at your local dealer: Antares class vessels, as good as new! They can shapeshift! Everybody in the galaxy has one! Now for only $800!"
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
"Contact" might be exaggeration, but I did mail him about this, yes. I'll tell if I hear anything.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Yup, Okuda says Legato did use the surviving "BoBW" models in filming the "Emissary" battle scenes. Some models had gone missing, but Okuda didn't enumerate which of them (at least the Challenger/Buran is known to have been lost, though). Apparently, there was no big effort to build all-new models: the Excelsior model to be blown up as USS Melbourne was a commercial kit, and the Miranda photographic model was slightly modified into the Saratoga, but that was pretty much it. The other stuff was filmed in whatever state it happened to be - apparently, there was no attempt made to recreate the missing model for the Challenger class, for example.
I've also asked specifically about the presence of the Tolstoy and the Gage, and I'll tell if there are any news.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
So do you mean that there were actually three versions of the Melbourne: the Miarecki Nebula study, a plastic model kit Excelsior, and the studio model of the Excelsior seen in "Emissary"?
------------------ Bart: "Hey, Dad, I'll trade you this delicious doorstop for that crummy old brownie." Homer: "Done and done...D'oh!"
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
No, he's saying that the Excelsior seen in "Emissary" wasn't a studio model, but one of the zillions of vacuform &/or resin kits available at the time.
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Right. I guess the good old photographic model for the Excelsior from STIII/TNG was used right until the moment the beam began cutting into the ship, at which point a cheap kit was substituted. The same might have been done with some other types of kits, so that we might have seen a Miranda explosion or two, perhaps also a Galaxy, but Okuda didn't mention anything of those specifically. And the reverse, of using a cheapo kit of an intact Kyushu or Springfield before substituting the existing wreck, apparently was not done.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe Okuda, can use this 'missing' footage for his "Lost Starships" book.
Andrew
------------------ "Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Okay, that makes sense. Upon watching the episode again, I can clearly see that the Melbourne getting blown away isn't as detailed as the shots of the ship moments earlier.
------------------ Bart: "Hey, Dad, I'll trade you this delicious doorstop for that crummy old brownie." Homer: "Done and done...D'oh!"
