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Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

I don't have the Chronology, but I do know that there is a picture of a 'DY-750 class' ship in it. I wonder what the Chronology says more about it. (or is the pic just a filler?)

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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

It's just a filler. It's basically a DY-100 class with more pods that's all.

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I have a picture...

here 'tis

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

I had the picture already, I just wondered whether there was some background info on the ship. Thanx anyway.

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Advertisement in the United Federation NewsPADD, SD 53675:

"Now for sale at your local dealer: Antares class vessels, as good as new! They can shapeshift! Everybody in the galaxy has one! Now for only $800!"

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

How many DY-XXX classes are there, or at least how many do we know about?

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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

I would say 750. But officially we know there are 3 ships of the DY type. The DY-500 type (i forgot the name), the Botany Bay, and the Woden.

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

The DY-500 mentioned on screen was the Mariposa. And I doubt there were 750 of them (DY-1, DY-2, DY-3 ... DY-748, DY-749, DY-750). They seem to mainly use increments of 100 or 50 (and possibly a 25 thrown in from time to time?), but I think that's probably all.

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra, and then, suddenly, it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
-Matt Groening

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Wasn't the Woden and the Botany Bay the same ship design?

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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Yep. Same model was used. Whether or not it was supposed to represent the exact same design is debateable, of course...

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra, and then, suddenly, it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
-Matt Groening

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The DY numbers probably don't run evenly from 1 to 750, but they aren't used in nice regular intervals of 50 or 25, either. The monitor on Picard's desk in "Up the Long Ladder" lists all sorts of other DY designs beside the 100, 500 and 750 - that is, designs like DY-488 or something.

One could say that DY-100 was the most primitive model, and DY-200 a growth model; DY-201 an improved version of the latter with a higher-power microwave oven; and DY-488 a downgraded "economy" version of the DY-500, with less comfortable seat padding. So the 100- or 50-interval models would represent major structural or propulsive improvements, while the smaller increases or decreases in model numbers would represent minor modifications.

It might be that there never was a single DY-500 ship built, for example: instead, DY-500 was the theoretical template or "mother design" on which individual ships would be built according to customer requirements, so that perhaps five DY-501 ships, two DY-530s, and one each of DY-541, 545, 560 etc. would be constructed. All of these would be considered part of the "DY-500 series". That would explain the great number of DY variants seen on Picard's screen without assuming great numbers of ships of each variant produced.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

For the record: multiple DY-series ships are mentioned in the "And what might these be?" thread started by Prakesh. (I'm too lazy to place a link...)

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ALPHA CENTAURI

Human Class - Starfleet registry NCC-75715
Launched stardate 8311.23 - Parental Biology Yards
United Federation of Planets

"A dedication motto? What about it?" - Alpha Centauri

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I was thinking, the DY ships might be the pre NCC ships - and that instead of having NCC-01 they actually continued on with NCC-XXX interspersed with DY ships??

Though that doesn't help with the SS Enterprise.

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

According to fanfic, DY-series vessels were assigned DY-registries before NCC-registries were introduced. (the Botany Bay was DY-100 class, but had the rego DY-102. The first of the DY-100 class was named Savannah, and had rego DY-100)
NCC was introduced around the time when warp drive became available. The Bonaventure from Animated episode "Time Trap" had a visible registry of NCC-S2200 (don't know for sure).

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ALPHA CENTAURI

Human Class - Starfleet registry NCC-75715
Launched stardate 8311.23 - Parental Biology Yards
United Federation of Planets

"A dedication motto? What about it?" - Alpha Centauri

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The DY codes can't be registries, really, since the DY ships in Picard's screen all had separate registries. The Mariposa herself had a NAR registry. I'm too lazy to check, but apparently none of them had NCC (which is only prudent, since the earliest known NCC is a Starfleet one, for the Daedalus class, and the screen listed ships that had sailed out before Starfleet was formed).

I think the Bonadventure was NCC-S2100. The freighter Huron from "Pirates of Orion" was NCC-F1313, while the droneships from "More Tribbles" had NCC-G registries. I'm sure fanfic has figured out a scheme or two for these letters (at least the F is obvious, and G is in some cases used as a letter for drones in the USAF as well, in addition to D and Q...).

Incidentally, the Bonadventure was "the first starship to be fitted with warp drive", leaving open the possibility that other ships were fitted with warp drive before her, but weren't called "starships". There was no launch date established for the Bonadventure; although fanfic usually conjectures something in the 2060s to match the general era of Cochrane's first flight, it is just as possible that the ship was actually launched in 2161 as the first Starfleet-operated warp-driven spaceship, and thus as the first such spaceship to be decorated with the name "starship".

Or alternatively, perhaps she was launched in the early 2200s (since the markings on the ship were clearly of the TOS style), and was the first ship with capabilities comparable to the Constitution class, and thus got named "starship" to distinguish her from the earlier mere "spaceships"? Perhaps this experimental vessel (the S in the registy?) was followed by the first operational starships, of Constitution class (thus explaining why the dedication plaque of the Enterprise said "Starship class")?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

Timo
I suggest the following-
Starships were the most advanced and most powerful ships of Starfleet to the 2280's, when the familiar class system of the later series is introduced. Each starship type, the Daedalus and the Constitution, were identified as Starship Class and, to prevent confusion, labeled with a alpha designation. An example is the J Class starship that was considered old by the 2260's and, at least, one starship of this class was used as a trainer by Academy cadets. A Starship Class was supported by scouts and other types of ships. From having seen the series Star Trek and Next Generation, I know that there were at least three major types of starships from 2161 to 2264-the Daedalus Class (alpha designation unknown), an unknown class known simply as J Class, and the Constitution Class (alpha designation unknown). The USS Horizon of the Daedalus Class was identified as a starship in "A Piece of the Action", inferring that the term starship dates to the 22nd century. Further, each starship class had a small number of ships operating at any one time. By the mid 2260's, the Constitution Class had thirteen ships in operation. (Capt. Kirk says that there are "...only twelve ships like it [the USS Enterprise] in the fleet...". The phrase 'like it' implies that the USS Enterprise is separate from the count of the twelve ships. This would be similiar to someone seeing a car I owned and asking how many I have. I would say, "I have twelve cars like it back home." When I am saying this phrase, I am thinking of the car I have and the twelve cars I have at home. This is a count of thirteen. I don't own thirteen cars in reality, but I hope you get the gist of what I am saying.)

On a side note-
What are the thirteen ships of the Constitution Class in operation at this time? After watching Star Trek, I have come with my answer. A larger and more detailed answer will appear either at the ending of this year or beginning of next year. Please note that I am taking the position that starship registries are not chronological. Evidence for this is the the known registries of Constitution Class starships; the commission dates of starships in the Next Generation (USS Bradbury NX-72307 operational by 2366), Deep Space Nine (USS Danube NX-72003 commissioned in the year 2368), and Voyager (USS Equinox NCC-72381 commissioned in 2370); and the list of the first runabouts to be commissioned in the DS9 companion. So here is my answer-

13 ships in 2267
1. NCC-1017 USS Constellation
2. NCC-1371 USS Republic
3. NCC-1664 USS Excalibur
4. NCC-1672 USS Exeter
5. NCC-1685
6. NCC-1697 USS Essex
7. NCC-1700 USS Constitution (class ship)
8. NCC-1701 USS Enterprise
9. NCC-1703 USS Hood
10. NCC-1709 USS Lexington
11. NCC-1717 USS Yorktown
12. NCC-1718
13. NCC-1831 USS Intrepid

The USS Carolina, a ship identified as starship in "Friday's Child", I believe to be Constitution Class. I present my evidence later. Her registry is either NCC-1685 or NCC-1718.

These ships were commissioned in or after 2267-the USS Kongo NCC-1710, the Defiant NCC-1764, the USS Eagle NCC-956, the USS Potemkin NCC-1657, and the USS Endeavor NCC-1895.

The USS Farrugut NCC-1647 was destroyed in the 2250's.

The USS Valiant NCC-1223 was not identified as a starship in the episode "A Taste of Armageddon". She was listed as Earth ship.
Therefore, the USS Valiant was not a member of a starship class.

As stated earlier, the term "Starship Class" was phased out by the early 2280's. The evidence for this can be found in the Wrath of Khan where there were two starship classes in operation at the same time. Evidence from the series Star Trek and from the Making of Star Trek was that there existed only one active Starship Class in operation at any one time. The Class J starships were retired by the 2260's with only one starship, a trainer, in operational for the Academy. This doesn't violate the rule stated for this was an exception. The term starship, which was reserved to particular classes before 2280, had become used by the time of the second film to include all classes of a certain size and ability.

So in summation, a brief history
22nd century The term 'starship' was first coined to refer to a particular type of ship that was more powerful and more advanced than other ships in the fleet. By extension, a new class of ship was invented-the Starship Class.
2161 Daedalus Class starships are the first to bear the designation Starship Class.
2196 Daedalus Class starships are retired.
Between 2196 and 2225, the Class J starships were in active duty in Starfleet.
2225 Constitution Class starships are introduced into active service. (Forty years before the series-Making of Star Trek.) The first ship was the USS Constition NCC-1700.
2245 USS Enterprise NCC-1701 commissioned.
2265 to 2269 Star Trek.
2270's Term starship was broaden to include all ships of a certain size and ability. Starship Class designation was phased out of use. Many ships in the fleet are refitted with new technology.
2280's First use of familiar system-Constitution Class named after prototype ship, USS Constitution. Constitution Class ships are still being built in this decade (The Voyage Home).
2286 USS Yorktown NCC-1717 renamed USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A.
23rd Century Ships of the Constitution Class are either put into a museum or used as trainers for cadets.
2367 A cadet ship of the Constitution Class was destroyed in the Wolf 359 battle. USS Republic NCC-1371 was the only active duty ship of the Constitution Class in service after this battle. Due to her advanced age by the 2320's, she was constrained to the Sol System as an Academy trainer.
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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

[This message has been edited by targetemployee (edited August 10, 2000).]

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

Timo: I acknowledge the fact that the "Up the Long Ladder" DY-series ships did not have DY-registries. There were also no NCCs. I'm just mentioning conjecture from treknical fandom.
The Bonaventure: the dialogue can be interpreted as the Bonaventure being the first 'regular' ship to be fitted with warp drive, after the Phoenix. The Phoenix was merely an experimental craft, while the Bonaventure was a real ship. Perhaps Cochrane's brief warp trip was even the only flight by the Phoenix ever.

Targetemployee: What does the DS9 Companion exactly say on those runabouts?
I guess you're assuming that the Carolina is not a Daedalus because it was in service by the 2260s. If we scrap Okuda's conjecture of it being a Daedalus, then its class remains unknown. Unless it will later be contradicted in canon, I take the Carolina as a Daedalus. Even the fact that it was still in service by the TOS-era does not automatically mean it isn't a Daedalus. It might have been taken out of mothballs for some reason, and would in that case most likely execute secondary, non-urgent missions (Intra-system personnel/cargo transport? Ore hauling? I don't know what the ep says on what mission it was, if it says anything at all, so these are just random guesses).

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ALPHA CENTAURI

Human Class - Starfleet registry NCC-75715
Launched stardate 8311.23 - Parental Biology Yards
United Federation of Planets

"A dedication motto? What about it?" - Alpha Centauri

[This message has been edited by Alpha Centauri (edited August 10, 2000).]

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Target Employee: And what of the Kongo?

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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.

[This message has been edited by USS Vanguard (edited August 10, 2000).]

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

USS Carolina
Her mission was to patrol the Neutral Zone.

USS Kongo NCC-1710
The class of this ship was unknown and remains unknown. Many fans listed this ship as Constitution Class either because the Making of Star Trek was known to he or she or he or she chose to 'follow suit'.
In the movie The Undiscovered Country, where this ship was listed, only the following ships have their class listed. This was because these ships were in other episodes or mentioned in the encyclopedia where their class was given.
They are
1. USS Constellation NX-1974 Constellation Class (Encyclopedia, TNG Companion)
2. USS Eagle NCC-956 Constitution Class (Encyclopedia)
3. USS Endeavor NCC-1895 Constitutiton Class (Encyclopedia)
4. USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A Constitution Class (Movie-schematic)
5. USS Excelsior NCC-2000 Excelsior Class (Movie-dedication plate)
6. USS Lantree NCC-1837 Miranda Class ("Unnatural Selection")
7. USS Potemkin NCC-1657 Constitution Class ("The Ultimate Computer")
8. USS Republic NCC-1371 Constitution Class ("Court Martial", encyclopedia)

The ships with unknown class are
1. USS Ahwahnee NCC-2048
2. USS Challenger NCC-2032
3. USS Emden NCC-1856
4. USS Helin NCC-1692
5. USS John Muir NCC-1732
6. USS Kongo NCC-1710
7. USS Korolev NCC-2014
8. USS Oberth NCC-602
9. USS Scovil NCC-1598
10. USS Springfield NCC-1963
11. USS Whorfin NCC-1024

Even Ms. Trimble didn't know the class of the 11 ships. And she didn't list the USS Kongo as Constitution Class. Her list matches that found in the encyclopedia. If someone could get the class information for these 11 ships, this could help resolve the issue of wheter the USS Kongo was Constitution Class or the USS Oberth was Oberth Class.

In the DS9 Companion, in the section which was about the Danube Class starships, there was a list of ships that are said to be the first to be commissioned after the USS Danube NX-72003. The order doesn't match the episodes, suggesting that the ships weren't commissioned chronologically.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

[This message has been edited by targetemployee (edited August 10, 2000).]

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

Are these on-screen runabouts? If there are any off-screen runabouts, I'd like to know what their names and regos are.

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ALPHA CENTAURI

Human Class - Starfleet registry NCC-75715
Launched stardate 8311.23 - Parental Biology Yards
United Federation of Planets

"A dedication motto? What about it?" - Alpha Centauri

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Say, didn't the Bonaventure have "U.E.S.P.A." on the stardrive?

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"Fragile. Do not drop"
--posted on a Boeing 757

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Nope, no UESPA, no name, nothing - just the registry on the nacelle, and standard Starfleet pennants of 2260s vintage on the secondary hull flanks. You might be thinking of a stupendously inaccurate reproduction that was later circulated (probably to hide the embarrassing fact that the on-screen Bonadventure looked far too 2260s-like).

Targetemployee: just because Kirk or a later character calls a primitive space vessel a starship doesn't mean it was necessarily called that in its heyday, by its own crew. I'd like to think that the whole term "starship" was something specifically invented for the Constitution class, and thus put on the dedication plaques at first; when lots of ship classes were built with similar or improved capabilities, Starfleet bumped the Constitutions down to "heavy cruiser" category, and either reserved "starship" for bigger designs like the Excelsior, or abandoned it altogether.

Why do I like to think so? Mainly because Diane Carey thinks so . She's been improving her act considerably, relegating FASA to the deep background and even adopting some Okudaisms in her newer books. I got totally hooked on the "New Earth" hexalogy, where the difference between a "cruiser" and a "starship" again is prominent...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Can anyone list what those other DY ships on Picard's screen were.

Andrew

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

You can find a summary of Picard's screen in the "And what might these be?" thread.

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ALPHA CENTAURI

Human Class - Starfleet registry NCC-75715
Launched stardate 8311.23 - Parental Biology Yards
United Federation of Planets

"A dedication motto? What about it?" - Alpha Centauri

Posted by Joshua Bell (Member # 327) on :

There is something appealing about "starship class" being an older (but more confusing) term for "explorer class".

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I'm all with Joshua here. When the Constitutions premiered, they were probably considered a step up from the big cruisers of the era, but Starfleet didn't want to call them battleships since they weren't meant primarily for battle or anything. So they dreamed up "starship". By the movie era, there were plenty of ships with similar capabilities extant, and bigger ones were coming off the docks, so the early "starships" got bumped down to "heavy cruiser".

Using this terminology, the ST4 reference to the Probe neutralizing three starships and two smaller vessels would mean the thing offed three Excelsiors or other similarly big ships (Constellation? Federation?) in addition to the "small" Saratoga and Yorktown...

After a while, the novelty value of "starship" wore off, so that perhaps it was applied to the Excelsiors or Ambassadors for a while but then abandoned soon thereafter in favor of "explorer". Some would still remember the old usage - say, the Ferengi in "Peak Performance" would still associate "starship" with "the biggest type of Starfleet vessel, the one that can kick the crap out of our Marauder".

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

Timo and others
What is the explanation for the Class J starship of the "Menagerie"?

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

The Star Trek 4 reference could actually mean 3 starships (Yorktown, Saratoga, and one other) and 2 other small vessels could mean some small civiilan freighters or shuttles.

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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey

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