It was something I did the other night, which I just haven't posted yet.
Of course, there are explanations for placements... etc. It basically the same as previous maps... I can fish a text file copy out of it somewhere, if someone wants to see it.
Although, it was mainly an 'art' project than an exact placement.
------------------
"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited September 17, 2000).]
------------------
"The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something."
Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"
That's good, because the placement of the stars that happen to be real is incredibly inaccurate. :-)
------------------
"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
------------------
"Wise Papa Smurf... Corrupted by his own power! Can no leader go untainted?!?!"
-Thundarr the Barbarian, Cartoon Network Commercial
------------------
Where's the bathroom on this ship?
Y'reveresed the locations of the Klingons & romulans, too....plus why move Cardassia & the others so far coreward?
------------------
"What if, the next time someone tried to pull up a dandelion, it pulled back? What if the dandelion ducked under the blades of the lawnmower?" --Del
------------------
Where's the bathroom on this ship?
(Actually, I'm not sure whether he was going into astronomy or not, but until he corrects me one way or the other...)
------------------
love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.
Anyway...
Romulus and Remus has to be close to Earth because:
The Romulan Wars being for in low powered warp ships. from TOS
The Romulans being the closest 'power' and settling Rigel etc. in "Past Tense" DS9
Romulan First contact occured well before Klingon First Contact.
The Cardassians are so 'coreward' as to let the whole
Klingon and Cardassian conflicts to work in DS9
The Romulans were not involved as much in the war with the Dominion as the Klingons and the Feds were
Worf and Alexander managed to reach that Klingon colony in the TNG season seven episode where alexander comes back from the future...
Worf manages to come from Forcas III a full on Klingon location for a Bat'leh competition to the border of Cardassia in a shuttle...
The Betrekka SP? Nebula incident.
OK the Dominion was crossing the Rommie boarder to get into Fed space... but they could easily have gone through a lot of neutral space first... to attack a Federation base...
The Tholians seem to be continually in the thick of Federation Klingon AND Romulan matters... Numerous Fed encounters, the Tholians eventually involving themselves in a Klingon Civil War and the Tholian observer at the Rom/Fed summit in "Homefront/Paradise Lost"
Quark was able to be abducted to the Klingon Empire rather Quickly in "House of Quark"
The Ferengi were well known to the Cardassians before the Feds... 'First Contact' with the Ferengi was in 2364, Quark and Rom plus other Ferengi were on Terok Nor for at least 5 years before the Cardies left it.
The Cardies are on the 'left' side of the Federation along with the Talarians - but if it was on the exact opposite side, well it just make things Tricky with the whole Cardassia/Klingon connection - these two powers HAVE to be close to one another... there are other examples.
The Cardies have to be further away from the Fed, "sphere of exploration" than the Klingons of course... the Klingon were well known well before the Cardassians... by about 100 years??
(see another post elsewhere about my theory reguarding this... I reckon that "The Barrier" from The Final Frontier might actually be the thing preventing the spread of exploration in the general Cardassian/Ferengi direction... just because they say the core of the galaxy doesn't mean that it has to begin right close to the centre of the galaxy... it might have been too hard for ships of the TOS era to cross at the time and been a much 'larger' sphere...)
The Tzenkethi had to be close to DS9 for the Defiant to be called and get there so quickly (relatively).
There are a few others, all of the above was off by heart - I'll go and get the text file... wait a second.
*musak*
quote:
Alpha Beta Gamma and Delta Quadrants
3d
Actual arms of galaxy not shownSources, and points of reference.
*The Quadrant and placement of earth as being on the boundary from the Star Trek Encyclopaedia first edition.
*UFP large over 150 members Picard (Star Trek: First Contact)
*Closer to the Galactic Rim than the Galactic center/core. TOS
*Romulans and Klingons on the 'right side' of the UFP (STE)
*Cardassians and Talarians (Suddenly Human) on 'left'
*Romulus close to Vulcan (TOS)(Unification TNG)
*Romulan Star Empire Close to Earth (Earth/Romulan wars... needed to
be close enough for old warp ships (capable of a few sectors at most)
*Romulans 'known' before Klingons (TOS) (Earth/Romulan wars) Klingon First Contact was afterwards and with the UFP) (disastrous first contact)
*R.S.E. close to earth (Past Tense) in alternate future Defiant scanned for Federation, wasn't there the closest readings were coming from the Romulans occupying a usual 'heavily populated region' of the UFP the Rigel system.
*Planet Khitomer is on the boader between Romulans Klingons and UFP
*In Face of the Enemy - TNG The Commander of the Romulan ship said she was commended for winning a boarder skirmish against heavy klingon assult...
*Romulans next to Klingons... (Redemption II - tachyon detection grid)
*Klingons and Romulans in the Beta Quadrant
*Klingon Empire spills over into the Alpha Quadrant
*Klingon Empire needs to be close enough for
*Quark to get there with in a short period of time (House of Quark)
*The Klingon outposts in Firstborn TNG
*the klingons to enter the war against the dominion before the Romulans... Sisko said once the federation and klingon empire fall, the romulans will be next ??a line of site??
*The Klingons able to War with Cardassia and UFP i.e. at DS9 (Way of the Warrior)
*For the Klingon Empire 'to expand'
*Bajor near Cardassia (Emissary)
*Bashir to travel to Cardassia in the wire in a relatively short time
*Bajor close The Three Cardassian ships arriving in Emissary
*Dr. Bashir Travelling to Cardassia in a relatively short time to visit Enabrin Tain "The Wire"
*Wormhole in Bajor system
*Still be 'Deep Space' from a UFP perspective
*Ferenginar needs to be close enough to DS9
*for Quark to go back and forth with no effort at all
*For the Grand Nagus to visit DS9 readily
*for all those Ferengi to visit DS9 readily at the drop of a hat (The Nagus' supposed death) in (The Nagus)
*Far enough away to be a rumour to the Federation in "Encounter at Farpoint" (Deneb "Farpoint Station" the ferengi were just a rumour)
*Quark and his Bar were on DS9 well before the Cardassians left at least since TNG season 1
*The Xenkathi close enough (but far enough away) for the defiant to 'show the flag' in (The Adversary)
*Doesn't look like the Xenkathi and the Obsidian Order didn't get on too well (or at least Garak) (By Inferno's Light)
*Romulans have had relationships with the Cardassians for a while (Garak being a gardener at the Cardassian embassy on Romulus (Apocalypse Rising)
*Klaestron IV close enough to Cardassia. allies with Cardassia Odo went to Klaestron IV in a runabout and didn't take too long in 'Dax' Bashir went to a medical conference on Klaestron IV in 'Second Skin'
*Kataria close to DS9 for the Katarian woman friend of Quarks to visit intermittently
*Katarians tried to take over the federation - The Enterprise wasn't far away from being at El Adrel, and Romulan Space and Klingon Space (The Game)
*Cassidy Yates said that Cestus three was on the other side of the federation
*Earth has to be atleast a weeks travel from DS9 (Homefront/Paradise Lost)
*Klingon empire can't be THAT close - Martok's Fleet had had a long journey - "Way Of The Warrior"
*Talarians on DS9 - Garak mentioned to Bashir that they took their time eating
*DSk7 near Shermans planet - apparently near the klingons "Trials and Tribbleations"
*The TOS pilot "Where No Man Has Gone Before" took place at the galactic edge - next episode (stardate) near the First Federation the Galactic barrier must be a closer distance out from Earth than the cardassian
*Vulcans first contact with earth
*Vulcans and Romulans must be sort of close - descended Romulans left a VERY long time ago - probably not in very fast ships
*Yridians seem to be hovering near DS9 TNG - Birthright and The Chase
*Breen on the desert planet where the cardassian transport crashed "DS9" Indiscretion
*Enterprise near where the black cluster where the Breen were thought to have been near and destroyed a science vessel "Hero Worship"
*the 'disruptor wielders' i.e. the Klingons Romulans and the Breen seem to be close together - "Generations"
*according to (not cannon) the Ferengi book by Ira Behr Robert Wolfe the Ferengi bought Warp drive from the Breen - hinted at in "Little green men" and the Breen settled the polar areas of Ferenginar
*the Prometheus was in the Beta Quadrant on a Deep Space Assignment "Message in a Bottle" on the map from Astrometrics it was a fair way into the Beta Quadrant...
*galornen core on the romulan/fed neutral zone "Unification" "The Enemy"
*there is a (or there was a) DMZ between the cardassians and the federation
*Dopterians a distant cousin of the Ferengi - "The Forsaken" and "First Born"
*The Borg seem to have come through Romulan Space to get to wolf 359 which is 'behind' the UFP in the line of sight to the Delta Quadrant
so the borg cube must have swung around... we also saw in Neutral zone the there had been a borg scout? digging up neutral zone bases...
*wouldn't put the Cardassians on the exact other side of the UFP compared to KE and RSE and Ferenginar cause of what i've said above!*Dominion in Gamma Quadrant
*The Wormhole Gamma Quadrant Terminus and The distance USS VOYAGER is away from the UFP is about the same.
*Cytherians live close to the Galactic Core. (The Nth Degree)
*The Barzan Wormhole oscillated across the Gamma and Delta Quadrants.
Phew!
Well there ARE others too... add them.
Andrew
P.S. On my map I'm pretty sure that Betrekka Nebula and Klak (should be Klach) D'Kel Bracht are incorrect spellings.
Andrew
P.P.S.
I'm not sure on star placements in relation to sol... and what the stars for different races are supposed to be - Epsilon Eridani A is what Vulcan orbits, I can't remember Andor's but the rest have never been mentioned...
Could someone post a rough map of star places - I'll fix the map... but well - I don't think there are any real stars known for ANY of the names on the map... (except, again for Vulcan, Earth, Deneb, Rigel and Andor)
Andrew
P.P.P.S.
HEY! It was an educated guess as to where to place the different Stars, it was NOT shit - I don't think they'd go to this much trouble on the show... I've been messing around with this for at least 4 years...
Even though it began as something to fool around art-wise (I.e its a rough map - I haven't sat down with a ruler etc...) - It doesn't mean that there IS a reason to the actual map.
If you don't like where things are placed - tell me where and give me a reason - from canon Trek.
Join in, do your own... just don't point and bitch.
Andrew
P.P.P.P.S
Please ignore spelling errors - especially in my old explanation list.
Andrew
P.P.P.P.P.S.
Thanks for the complements.
Andrew
------------------
"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited September 17, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited September 18, 2000).]
The following list is in XYZ coordinates, w/ Sol at (0,0,0), the Y axis pointing toward the galactic center but parallel to the galactic plane, the YZ plane forming the alpha/beta-quadrant border, positive X values in the beta quadrant and negative in the alpha, and all numbers expressed in light-years. I've only included stars that are already depicted on your map.
Alpha Cygni (Deneb) [Farpoint Station]: (150,1592,52)
Beta Lyrae (Sheliak) [Shelia**]: (130,260,75)
Beta Orionis (Rigel): (-712,-402,-376)
Epsilon Indi [Andor*]: (7,-3,-8)
Omicron2/40 Eridani [Vulcan*]: (-12,-4,-10)
61-Cygni [Tellar*]: (1,11,-1)
Wolf359: (-2,-4,6)
*Technically, these aren't canonically associated w/ these stars, but they're pretty widely accepted.
**The Sheliak aren't necessarily from the star that is currently called "Sheliak", but it seems pretty reasonable that this would be more than a coincidence.
------------------
"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
------------------
Where's the bathroom on this ship?
[This message has been edited by TLE (edited September 18, 2000).]
------------------
Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. *And*, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!
- Commander Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
I guess it just goes to show that the Borg are already everywhere, including Alpha and Beta quadrants. They don't have to send a Cube all the way from Delta to check out if our puny Earth is ripe for assimilation - they can simply reassign a ship that already happens to be conducting a mission nearby.
I think we can deduce that at least the Paulson Nebula (where the E-D hid) is in the direct line going through Earth and Wolf 359 - Starfleet would not have any reason to deploy its forces at Wolf 359 if this star was NOT on the beeline from Paulson to Earth, and if the Cube wasn't taking the straightest course possible. And indirectly, we can then also say that Jouret IV and the starbases mentioned in "BoBW" are all in the vicinity of Paulson nebula, and thus in that general direction ("down and right" from Earth in the map). By extension, at least some part of the Romulan Neutral Zone probably should also be somewhere there (but this isn't mandatory).
But I disagree with the idea that this means Romulan space has to be completely "down and right" from Earth, and Klingon space "up and right". The rough map in the DS9 Tech Manual shows Romulan space as extending both above and below the level of Earth, while Klingons are farther "down" still. Using this sort of arrangement would simply mean that the Klingons have had their close encounters with Cardassians somewhere "down" from Earth, not "up".
Timo Saloniemi
------------------
Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...
�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
The real gripe people have with the arrangement is that the alphbet zigzags across the galaxy, instead of going neatly clockwise or counterclockwise. Perhaps the admirals couldn't decide which one it should be, clockwise or the opposite, so the zigzagging was chosen as a compromise?
Timo Saloniemi
------------------
"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
Testing defenses, perhaps. Making sure that Picard's knowledge was accurate. And then heading for Earth.------------------
love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.
Of course, it may be that the Cube was taking a complicated but still predictable route (say, a helix of some sort) that Starfleet was able to compute as passing through Wolf 359. But the admirals must have been pretty damn convinced that they had predicted the route correctly for them to send the ships to Wolf 359 and not to Sol.
As for the location of Wolf 359, I was relying on Crhistian R�hl's Hipparcos data from www.stdimension.de. That data shows some easily identifiable stars like Alpha Centauri or Rigel or Deneb in their classic directions, so I thought the "down and to the right" (or rimwards and antirotationwards) direction of Wolf 359 sounded pretty convincing...
Timo Saloniemi
------------------
love's function is to fabricate unknownnness
--
E. E. Cummings
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! And party everyday.
quote:
The Klingon Empire HAS to be there... and not the other way around... it varies with everyone who posts, an older version had it the other way and everyone bitched.The Cardassians are so 'coreward' as to let the whole Klingon and Cardassian conflicts to work in DS9
The Romulans were not involved as much in the war with the Dominion as the Klingons and the Feds were
Well, this can be easily addressed by keeping the Klingons in their canon position and nudging the Cardassians _rimward_. The Klingon Empire then forms the entire Rimward border of the Federation, extending well into the Alpha Quadrant and bordering Cardassian Space.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
But I don't believe in the "solidity" and "impermeability" of empires much. It's more likely that empires consist of a network of corridors joining together spheres of influence around inhabited systems. Only in the densest parts of such networks can an empire hope to block others from trespassing. In the rim areas, everybody simply goes flying through the net.
The "joint border" supposedly shared by the Klingons and the Cardassians could be nothing more than two "outlier" planets close to each other but far away from their respective empires. Much like, say, the Aleuts where Russia and the US are in touch even though the border is of near-zero strategic importance and far removed from either mainland. This would allow the Feds to fly through to the rimward direction as they please.
Timo Saloniemi
another way might be like this... where there is a central core area, with 'rays' jutting out to out-lying colonies... but even still it comes down to empty areas of space where anyone can travel about...
Andrew
------------------
"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
------------------
Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...
�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
Andrew
------------------
"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
------------------
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
------------------
"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
------------------
"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"
Thats all from me.
------------------
Jeff's Webcam
From the dawn of time we came, living secretly among you, moving through the centuries, until the time of the Gathering, when those who remain will battle for the prize. In the end, there can be only one ... LEGOLANDER!
------------------
-=/\=-
Captain Stark
http://beam.to/readyroom
"The man on the top walks a lonely path. The chain of command is often a noose." Dr. Leonard McCoy --Obsession, Stardate: 3619.2
Timo Saloniemi
Cardassian Union to the top left, and the Romulan Star Empire and the Klingon Empire to the top Right... one on top of each other...
Andrew
------------------
"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
In any case, I would still like to have Romulus extend more towards the core, and Klingons more towards the rim - that way, the Borg would have a grater chance of running into the former instead of into the latter.
Timo Saloniemi
quote:
You know, I find this all silly, for one BIG reason. You're thinking two-dimentionally! It was Khan's undoing, after all. The Cardies and Rommies pretty much have to share a border. The Klingons and Rommies share a border, for sure. The Klingons and Cardies share a border. The Fed borders all three. The only way this works in in 3D space. 2D maps will not suffice.
I can make this work in 2d:
The federation is in the middle, the romulans border the cardassians and the federation, the cardassians wrap around the other side of the federation, and the klingons wrap the bottom.
You can even have areas of unexplored space between the borders: while the klingon border touches the Federation border at some point, there may be large areas that are unexplored.
Of course space is 3d, and one must account for that, but the galaxy itself is not very deep, and at the diameters many people propose, an empire would HAVE to extend from the top to the bottom. While there is additional space above and below the disk, there are amazingly few stars out there, and what there is are Population One stars that are highly unlikely to have any planets (as they formed when hydrogen and helium was all there was in the universe). Depending on who you ask, the galactic disk near Earth is from 1000 to 3000 lightyears thick. An empire 4000ly across would have encountered the edge of this area a while ago.
the most reliable data I have says:"Thickness of the Galaxy at/near Earth:
An area 50 Parsecs (163ly) thick will include 65% of the stars, while an area 1000ly thick will contain 95% of the stars."
While someone has proposed that the space empires will resemble a bucket full of marbles, a frying pan full of golf balls seems a better analogy.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
------------------
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
------------------
"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
------------------
"I�d say we have about three hours before we get a call from mister brain-bomb." - VIDROS
*drools*
------------------
"Have you ever tried factoring Optimus Prime?"
-TSN, TrekSunday, 9/17/00
quote:
The Cardies and Rommies pretty much have to share a border. The Klingons and Rommies share a border, for sure. The Klingons and Cardies share a border. The Fed borders all three. The only way this works in in 3D space. 2D maps will not suffice.
So, my challenge here is to create a map that is 2d, and that shows a Federation bordered by Klingons, Cardassians and Romulans, such that:
a) the Romulans border the Klingons and the Cardassians
b) the Cardassians border the Klingons and the Romulans
c) the Klingons border the Romulans and the Cardassians.
Should be easy enough.
In the GIF below, the Federation is red. The other 3 colors my be assigned to whichever empire you think it suits best. I believe this fits the need.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
[This message has been edited by spyone (edited October 10, 2000).]
------------------
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
quote:
The following list is in XYZ coordinates, w/ Sol at (0,0,0), the Y axis pointing toward the galactic center but parallel to the galactic plane, the YZ plane forming the alpha/beta-quadrant border, positive X values in the beta quadrant and negative in the alpha, and all numbers expressed in light-years. I've only included stars that are already depicted on your map.Alpha Cygni (Deneb) [Farpoint Station]: (150,1592,52)
Beta Lyrae (Sheliak) [Shelia**]: (130,260,75)
Beta Orionis (Rigel): (-712,-402,-376)
Epsilon Indi [Andor*]: (7,-3,-8)
Omicron2/40 Eridani [Vulcan*]: (-12,-4,-10)
61-Cygni [Tellar*]: (1,11,-1)
Wolf359: (-2,-4,6)
Are you SURE you did that right?
See, this data conflicts with a lot of what I have heard.
First off, as I look at the map with Earth directly down from the Galactic core, the Alpha Quadrant lies left of Earth and the Beta Quadrant right.
I'm just making sure we're using the same terms, because your coordinates put things I'm pretty sure go to the left of Earth on the right.
Second, are you dure you got the order right for Deneb's Coordinates? The ones you list put it 150 ly from the Alpha/Beta border and almost 1600 ly coreward. Everything I've seen says that Deneb is slightly rimward and mainly "left" of Earth.
And, should you be kind enough to volunteer your time, can you also locate:
Antares
Canopus
gamma hydrae
gamma tauri
delta orionis (mintaka)
epsilon bootis (Izar)
Thank you.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
I grant you all that. This is why I bothered to quote you statement.
It is quite possable that you cannot make a satisfactory map of all the powers except in 3d. It is quite possable that you can't do it EVEN in 3d. But that is not what you said. You said That one couldn't map those 4 powers with each bordering the ones it is supposed to in 2d, and I knew I could.
As for adding other powers.....
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Anyway, I should have those other coordinates. Let's see...
Alpha Scorpii (Antares): (499,-67,130)
Alpha Carinae (Canopus): (-13,-88,-42)
Delta Orionis (Mintaka): (-1308,-586,-443)
Epsilon Boötis (Izar): (35,28,93)
Yeah, Mintaka really is that far away. :-)
I'm afraid I haven't got Gamma Hydrae or Gamma Tauri. They're both on my list, but there aren't any numbers. If you can get me the right ascension, declination, and distance, I think I still have the program I wrote on my calculator to find the coordinates...
------------------
Teal'c: "I am a traitor to no-one."
Jaffa woman: "Except your god!"
Teal'c: "False god! Dead false god..."
-Stargate: SG-1, "Into the Fire"
R = Distance
b = RA
l = DEC
X = R * cos b * cos l
Y = R * cos b * sin l
Z = R * sin b
To check the work use
tan l = Y/X
sin b = Z/R
I am working on plotting out 291,211 stars that are with in 8,200 light years from Sol. I decided to use only stars with a parallax of 0.0004 arc sec. and higher.
mmmm, yeah, it's a slow process.
I used a Quattro Pro Spreadsheet.
------------------
Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...
[This message has been edited by Ritten (edited October 10, 2000).]
------------------
Teal'c: "I am a traitor to no-one."
Jaffa woman: "Except your god!"
Teal'c: "False god! Dead false god..."
-Stargate: SG-1, "Into the Fire"
------------------
"I�d say we have about three hours before we get a call from mister brain-bomb." - VIDROS
------------------
Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...
------------------
Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...
------------------
Teal'c: "I am a traitor to no-one."
Jaffa woman: "Except your god!"
Teal'c: "False god! Dead false god..."
-Stargate: SG-1, "Into the Fire"
For a glossary of Galactic terms, look here http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Glossary/Glossary_G.html.
The north pole is in Coma, at RA 12h 49m, Dec 27.4
------------------
When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Ok, the going just got slower......
------------------
Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...
------------------
Teal'c: "I am a traitor to no-one."
Jaffa woman: "Except your god!"
Teal'c: "False god! Dead false god..."
-Stargate: SG-1, "Into the Fire"
Let's see: regarding only Antares, Rigel, and Deneb,
use the first value for the y coordinate, the second for the x, and invert the sign on the x coordinate.
For those who are making lists, I would love to get a copy. To be most useful (to be used by my software), it should follow the following format (plain ASCII text):
X,Y,Z,SYSTEM,distance,SPECTRA,Xg,Yg,Zg,distance,REMARKS and OTHER CATALOG NAMES
0,0,0,Sol,0,G2V,0.00,0.00,0.00,from Sol,"9planets,asteroids,KuiperBelt,DiaOortCloud=0.4ly;""Sun"""
-7.43,2.11,0.95,Wolf 359,7.78,M5.8Ve,-1.89,-3.90,6.46,7.78,"FlareStar,dia=0.1Sol;CNLeonis,LFT750,LTT12923,Gl406,G45-20,LHS36"
To be honest, I have no idea what "Xg,Yg,Zg" means.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
[This message has been edited by spyone (edited October 10, 2000).]
This means that the standard used in astronomy is to designate the x axis along what I, at least, would call the y axis. I think it makes life simpler if _I_ change (as opposed to trying to change an entire scientific community to suit my needs).
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
[This message has been edited by spyone (edited October 11, 2000).]
------------------
Stupid bastards and religious freaks,
so safe in their castle keeps...
------------------
Teal'c: "I am a traitor to no-one."
Jaffa woman: "Except your god!"
Teal'c: "False god! Dead false god..."
-Stargate: SG-1, "Into the Fire"
A slight problem with galactic coordinates might be that they're based on the center of the galaxy. Since the earth is not exactly on the true equitorial plane of the galaxy, the "galactic plane" is this coordinate system is at a slight angle to the true galactic equitorial plane. By I guess that since our distance above the plane is much smaller than the distance to the galactic core that problem is too small to produce any serious errors.
Anyways, If you omit the z coordinate, you can easily produce a map looking down on the Galactic plane from the North Pole. That easier than working back from galactic longitude and latitude. (By the way, "stellar" is misspelled in the link in spyone's post and leads to nowhere).
TSN: Wendell Chung's site is pretty cool. I don't remember how I first found it. He's already made a lot of local space maps for those of us who don't want to travel too far from earth.
------------------
When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
The best way to reconcile astronomy maps with Star Trek maps, now that I understand the problem, is to take your star trek map and rotate it counter-clockwise 90 degrees. Now use the standard axes taught in geometry:
The x axis runs through Earth and the center of the Galaxy, with negative numbers being towards the center of the galaxy from earth (to the left of earth), and posative numbers to the right. The y axis runs vertically on the page, positave is away from you and negative is towards you. The z axis is, of course, above and below the paper.
I can't tell what Warp9 uses the Xg,Yg,Zg for, but I kinda doubt it is Galactic Coordinates.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
------------------
When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
[This message has been edited by Masao (edited October 12, 2000).]
------------------
Teal'c: "I am a traitor to no-one."
Jaffa woman: "Except your god!"
Teal'c: "False god! Dead false god..."
-Stargate: SG-1, "Into the Fire"
------------------
When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
------------------
An Aussie Trek Narrator
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
------------------
An Aussie Trek Narrator
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Bravo. Best analogy I've yet encountered.
By the way, the reason the Federation sphere is so much larger than that of other powers is because it is comprised of several large powers, each doing its own commerce and scientific exploration before/after contact/membership.
A 3d map WOULD be possible. Check out some of 7's maps in Stellar cartography. By use of perspective, an underlying grid, and translucent splined territory markers (each a different color), with only major systems included, such a map is eminently workable. I would suggest that you first get as many XYZ locations from actual astrometry/canon sources as possble, and enter these into a 3d art program. Then rotate the POV until you have a reasonbly attractive and revealing viewpoint. After this, use photoshop to improve detail/add place names on an upper layer, which can be removed.
To me, this sounds like a fun project. Any takers/collaborators?
wow
------------------
Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Studios � The United Federation Uplink �
------------------
Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"
After we get some consensus on XYZ coordinates (could everyone please check out this site?), and at least get a system which is gun (a small canon), I am going to try to create a perspective map of the nearby systems, Federation etc, (possibly several scales of detail) which parallels the look of Stellar Catrography (love those grids).
There are reams of data on this site. I have to glean it down to essentials.