It was something I did the other night, which I just haven't posted yet.

Of course, there are explanations for placements... etc. It basically the same as previous maps... I can fish a text file copy out of it somewhere, if someone wants to see it.

Although, it was mainly an 'art' project than an exact placement.

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"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan

That's good, because the placement of the stars that happen to be real is incredibly inaccurate. :-)

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"Wise Papa Smurf... Corrupted by his own power! Can no leader go untainted?!?!"

Y'reveresed the locations of the Klingons & romulans, too....plus why move Cardassia & the others so far coreward?

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Where's the bathroom on this ship?

(Actually, I'm not sure whether he was going into astronomy or not, but until he corrects me one way or the other...)

Anyway...

Romulus and Remus has to be close to Earth because:

The Romulan Wars being for in low powered warp ships. from TOS

The Romulans being the closest 'power' and settling Rigel etc. in "Past Tense" DS9

Romulan First contact occured well before Klingon First Contact.

The Cardassians are so 'coreward' as to let the whole
Klingon and Cardassian conflicts to work in DS9

The Romulans were not involved as much in the war with the Dominion as the Klingons and the Feds were

Worf and Alexander managed to reach that Klingon colony in the TNG season seven episode where alexander comes back from the future...

Worf manages to come from Forcas III a full on Klingon location for a Bat'leh competition to the border of Cardassia in a shuttle...

The Betrekka SP? Nebula incident.

OK the Dominion was crossing the Rommie boarder to get into Fed space... but they could easily have gone through a lot of neutral space first... to attack a Federation base...

The Tholians seem to be continually in the thick of Federation Klingon AND Romulan matters... Numerous Fed encounters, the Tholians eventually involving themselves in a Klingon Civil War and the Tholian observer at the Rom/Fed summit in "Homefront/Paradise Lost"

Quark was able to be abducted to the Klingon Empire rather Quickly in "House of Quark"

The Ferengi were well known to the Cardassians before the Feds... 'First Contact' with the Ferengi was in 2364, Quark and Rom plus other Ferengi were on Terok Nor for at least 5 years before the Cardies left it.

The Cardies are on the 'left' side of the Federation along with the Talarians - but if it was on the exact opposite side, well it just make things Tricky with the whole Cardassia/Klingon connection - these two powers HAVE to be close to one another... there are other examples.

The Cardies have to be further away from the Fed, "sphere of exploration" than the Klingons of course... the Klingon were well known well before the Cardassians... by about 100 years??

(see another post elsewhere about my theory reguarding this... I reckon that "The Barrier" from The Final Frontier might actually be the thing preventing the spread of exploration in the general Cardassian/Ferengi direction... just because they say the core of the galaxy doesn't mean that it has to begin right close to the centre of the galaxy... it might have been too hard for ships of the TOS era to cross at the time and been a much 'larger' sphere...)

The Tzenkethi had to be close to DS9 for the Defiant to be called and get there so quickly (relatively).

There are a few others, all of the above was off by heart - I'll go and get the text file... wait a second.

*musak*

quote:

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Alpha Beta Gamma and Delta Quadrants
3d
Actual arms of galaxy not shown

Sources, and points of reference.

*The Quadrant and placement of earth as being on the boundary from the Star Trek Encyclopaedia first edition.
*UFP large over 150 members Picard (Star Trek: First Contact)
*Closer to the Galactic Rim than the Galactic center/core. TOS
*Romulans and Klingons on the 'right side' of the UFP (STE)
*Cardassians and Talarians (Suddenly Human) on 'left'
*Romulus close to Vulcan (TOS)(Unification TNG)
*Romulan Star Empire Close to Earth (Earth/Romulan wars... needed to
be close enough for old warp ships (capable of a few sectors at most)
*Romulans 'known' before Klingons (TOS) (Earth/Romulan wars) Klingon First Contact was afterwards and with the UFP) (disastrous first contact)
*R.S.E. close to earth (Past Tense) in alternate future Defiant scanned for Federation, wasn't there the closest readings were coming from the Romulans occupying a usual 'heavily populated region' of the UFP the Rigel system.
*Planet Khitomer is on the boader between Romulans Klingons and UFP
*In Face of the Enemy - TNG The Commander of the Romulan ship said she was commended for winning a boarder skirmish against heavy klingon assult...
*Romulans next to Klingons... (Redemption II - tachyon detection grid)
*Klingons and Romulans in the Beta Quadrant
*Klingon Empire spills over into the Alpha Quadrant
*Klingon Empire needs to be close enough for
*Quark to get there with in a short period of time (House of Quark)
*The Klingon outposts in Firstborn TNG
*the klingons to enter the war against the dominion before the Romulans... Sisko said once the federation and klingon empire fall, the romulans will be next ??a line of site??
*The Klingons able to War with Cardassia and UFP i.e. at DS9 (Way of the Warrior)
*For the Klingon Empire 'to expand'
*Bajor near Cardassia (Emissary)
*Bashir to travel to Cardassia in the wire in a relatively short time
*Bajor close The Three Cardassian ships arriving in Emissary
*Dr. Bashir Travelling to Cardassia in a relatively short time to visit Enabrin Tain "The Wire"
*Wormhole in Bajor system
*Still be 'Deep Space' from a UFP perspective
*Ferenginar needs to be close enough to DS9
*for Quark to go back and forth with no effort at all
*For the Grand Nagus to visit DS9 readily
*for all those Ferengi to visit DS9 readily at the drop of a hat (The Nagus' supposed death) in (The Nagus)
*Far enough away to be a rumour to the Federation in "Encounter at Farpoint" (Deneb "Farpoint Station" the ferengi were just a rumour)
*Quark and his Bar were on DS9 well before the Cardassians left at least since TNG season 1
*The Xenkathi close enough (but far enough away) for the defiant to 'show the flag' in (The Adversary)
*Doesn't look like the Xenkathi and the Obsidian Order didn't get on too well (or at least Garak) (By Inferno's Light)
*Romulans have had relationships with the Cardassians for a while (Garak being a gardener at the Cardassian embassy on Romulus (Apocalypse Rising)
*Klaestron IV close enough to Cardassia. allies with Cardassia Odo went to Klaestron IV in a runabout and didn't take too long in 'Dax' Bashir went to a medical conference on Klaestron IV in 'Second Skin'
*Kataria close to DS9 for the Katarian woman friend of Quarks to visit intermittently
*Katarians tried to take over the federation - The Enterprise wasn't far away from being at El Adrel, and Romulan Space and Klingon Space (The Game)
*Cassidy Yates said that Cestus three was on the other side of the federation
*Earth has to be atleast a weeks travel from DS9 (Homefront/Paradise Lost)
*Klingon empire can't be THAT close - Martok's Fleet had had a long journey - "Way Of The Warrior"
*Talarians on DS9 - Garak mentioned to Bashir that they took their time eating
*DSk7 near Shermans planet - apparently near the klingons "Trials and Tribbleations"
*The TOS pilot "Where No Man Has Gone Before" took place at the galactic edge - next episode (stardate) near the First Federation the Galactic barrier must be a closer distance out from Earth than the cardassian
*Vulcans first contact with earth
*Vulcans and Romulans must be sort of close - descended Romulans left a VERY long time ago - probably not in very fast ships
*Yridians seem to be hovering near DS9 TNG - Birthright and The Chase
*Breen on the desert planet where the cardassian transport crashed "DS9" Indiscretion
*Enterprise near where the black cluster where the Breen were thought to have been near and destroyed a science vessel "Hero Worship"
*the 'disruptor wielders' i.e. the Klingons Romulans and the Breen seem to be close together - "Generations"
*according to (not cannon) the Ferengi book by Ira Behr Robert Wolfe the Ferengi bought Warp drive from the Breen - hinted at in "Little green men" and the Breen settled the polar areas of Ferenginar
*the Prometheus was in the Beta Quadrant on a Deep Space Assignment "Message in a Bottle" on the map from Astrometrics it was a fair way into the Beta Quadrant...
*galornen core on the romulan/fed neutral zone "Unification" "The Enemy"
*there is a (or there was a) DMZ between the cardassians and the federation
*Dopterians a distant cousin of the Ferengi - "The Forsaken" and "First Born"
*The Borg seem to have come through Romulan Space to get to wolf 359 which is 'behind' the UFP in the line of sight to the Delta Quadrant
so the borg cube must have swung around... we also saw in Neutral zone the there had been a borg scout? digging up neutral zone bases...
*wouldn't put the Cardassians on the exact other side of the UFP compared to KE and RSE and Ferenginar cause of what i've said above!

*Dominion in Gamma Quadrant
*The Wormhole Gamma Quadrant Terminus and The distance USS VOYAGER is away from the UFP is about the same.
*Cytherians live close to the Galactic Core. (The Nth Degree)
*The Barzan Wormhole oscillated across the Gamma and Delta Quadrants.

---

Phew!

Well there ARE others too... add them.

Andrew

P.S. On my map I'm pretty sure that Betrekka Nebula and Klak (should be Klach) D'Kel Bracht are incorrect spellings.

Andrew

P.P.S.

I'm not sure on star placements in relation to sol... and what the stars for different races are supposed to be - Epsilon Eridani A is what Vulcan orbits, I can't remember Andor's but the rest have never been mentioned...

Could someone post a rough map of star places - I'll fix the map... but well - I don't think there are any real stars known for ANY of the names on the map... (except, again for Vulcan, Earth, Deneb, Rigel and Andor)

Andrew

P.P.P.S.

HEY! It was an educated guess as to where to place the different Stars, it was NOT shit - I don't think they'd go to this much trouble on the show... I've been messing around with this for at least 4 years...

Even though it began as something to fool around art-wise (I.e its a rough map - I haven't sat down with a ruler etc...) - It doesn't mean that there IS a reason to the actual map.

If you don't like where things are placed - tell me where and give me a reason - from canon Trek.

Join in, do your own... just don't point and bitch.

Andrew

P.P.P.P.S

Please ignore spelling errors - especially in my old explanation list.

Andrew

P.P.P.P.P.S.

Thanks for the complements.

Andrew

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"I threw bitter tears at the ocean
But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan

[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited September 17, 2000).]

The following list is in XYZ coordinates, w/ Sol at (0,0,0), the Y axis pointing toward the galactic center but parallel to the galactic plane, the YZ plane forming the alpha/beta-quadrant border, positive X values in the beta quadrant and negative in the alpha, and all numbers expressed in light-years. I've only included stars that are already depicted on your map.

Alpha Cygni (Deneb) [Farpoint Station]: (150,1592,52)
Beta Lyrae (Sheliak) [Shelia**]: (130,260,75)
Beta Orionis (Rigel): (-712,-402,-376)
Epsilon Indi [Andor*]: (7,-3,-8)
Omicron²/40 Eridani [Vulcan*]: (-12,-4,-10)
61-Cygni [Tellar*]: (1,11,-1)
Wolf359: (-2,-4,6)

*Technically, these aren't canonically associated w/ these stars, but they're pretty widely accepted.
**The Sheliak aren't necessarily from the star that is currently called "Sheliak", but it seems pretty reasonable that this would be more than a coincidence.

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Where's the bathroom on this ship?

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Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. *And*, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out!

I guess it just goes to show that the Borg are already everywhere, including Alpha and Beta quadrants. They don't have to send a Cube all the way from Delta to check out if our puny Earth is ripe for assimilation - they can simply reassign a ship that already happens to be conducting a mission nearby.

I think we can deduce that at least the Paulson Nebula (where the E-D hid) is in the direct line going through Earth and Wolf 359 - Starfleet would not have any reason to deploy its forces at Wolf 359 if this star was NOT on the beeline from Paulson to Earth, and if the Cube wasn't taking the straightest course possible. And indirectly, we can then also say that Jouret IV and the starbases mentioned in "BoBW" are all in the vicinity of Paulson nebula, and thus in that general direction ("down and right" from Earth in the map). By extension, at least some part of the Romulan Neutral Zone probably should also be somewhere there (but this isn't mandatory).

But I disagree with the idea that this means Romulan space has to be completely "down and right" from Earth, and Klingon space "up and right". The rough map in the DS9 Tech Manual shows Romulan space as extending both above and below the level of Earth, while Klingons are farther "down" still. Using this sort of arrangement would simply mean that the Klingons have had their close encounters with Cardassians somewhere "down" from Earth, not "up".

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Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...

�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"

The real gripe people have with the arrangement is that the alphbet zigzags across the galaxy, instead of going neatly clockwise or counterclockwise. Perhaps the admirals couldn't decide which one it should be, clockwise or the opposite, so the zigzagging was chosen as a compromise?