An Oberth model was used to represent this ship in "The Pegasus" because of budget considerations, but it was originally supposed to be a newer design. I remember Rick Sternbach saying that it was supposed to be something like a four-nacelled variant of an Ambassador-era starship, but does anyone else have any other information, like if RS ever said something about it in a newsgroup?
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Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
I've heard that the Pegasus was intended to be a Cheyenne-class-vessel.
[ March 17, 2003, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
There's even an Okudagram in the episode that may be a holdover from the original four-nacelle idea. It shows the usual symbolism for nacelles, but there are four, rather than two. Of course, this could just be two different aspects of each nacelle, say top and bottom halves of the coils or something, but it seems almost likely that it was originally drawn to match the quad-naceller.
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Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :
I do believe there is an Okudagram in the episode of a four-nacelled ship. If it's a Cheyenne, I don't remember, but I do recall someone on the art staff mentioning it was originally going to be a Cheyenne.
You wanna stop posting when I am, TSN?
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[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited October 16, 2000).]
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
It would also make sense to use a Cheyenne because a model was already built for "The Best of Both Worlds."
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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
IIRC, the Pegasus (like the Crazy Horse) was supposed to be a Cheyenne, and they even designed the Pegasus set to reflect that idea. This leaves us with the conclusion that the Cheyenne class is a testbed for the Galaxy Class.
Budget Considerations forced the producers to use a Oberth-Class model. Mention was also made that if the Cheyenne class model was used, then we would have seen more of the Cheyenne class in Star Trek.
Just think of a couple of Cheyenne ships duking it out with Dominion ships on DS9. Or a Cheyenne class making potshots on the Borg cube in First Contact.
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The problem, IIRC, is that the Cheyenne model was a literal kitbash. Therefore, it didn't have the level of detail necessary for photgraphing, nor was it equipped to be lighted. They'd have had to build a new, large, lighted model to put it in a prominent position on screen, and it was simpler (and cheaper) to just grab the Oberth.
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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Though I believe the Cheyenne class was considered because it was almost good enough for prime time. At least, presumably good enough that they originally thought there wouldn't be too much work involved in sprucing it up.
Although I would have liked the idea of seeing more Cheyennes, the Pegasus was clearly seen to be an Oberth, wasn't it? I mean, explaining the 4-nacelled-Okudagramm on an Oberth engineering screen will be much easier than explaining the Oberth saucer rising from within the asteroid if the Pegasus is supposed to be a Cheyenne...
My point is: let's rather speculate WTF those 4 nacelles could symbolize. Maybe it has something to do with the cloaking device?
Or a variant of the standard Oberth, souped up test bed for various technologies..... Federation Cloaking Device Warp 10 Vessel Transwarp and Warp nacelles and the such....
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Like I said, it may not have actually represented four nacelles, but rather just two aspects of each nacelle. I believe the example I suggested was that it could be the upper and lower halves of each set of coils.
------------------ "Count the arms, the legs, and heads, and then divide by five." -They Might Be Giants, "Certain People I Could Name"
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Yeah, but on the other hand there is a small history of "wrong" okudagrams in episodes. The one that comes to mind is the "faulty" nebula-class okudagram for the USS Sutherland in the episode where Data was captain. I�m thinking that the nacelles where supposed to represent the Cheyenne-class, but the staff just forgot to replace the 'gram.
BTW, Frank, got any bigger version of that pic? You really can�t see all that much.
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Posted by Davok (Member # 143) on :
I also tend to think it represents only 2 nacelles. Maybe the Pegasus had 2 plasma injectors in each nacelle... After all we don't know anything about a "normal" Oberth's warp drive system either. The nacelles look kinda strange to me.
The thing with that Okudagram, the nacelles are long and thin like a Cheyennes...
Also what I don't understand is that if there were bugetry considerations... why did they build a new Oberth model for "The Pegasus".
They did... they really did - its more detailed.
(Maybe it was only a part model/part rock thingy)
Andrew
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
Posted by pod99 on :
Working mostly from memory...
We only saw the ship in the rock, so we don't really know what all the ship is like so it may in fact be neither Orbeth or Cheyenne. The class may quite well be based on the Orbeth but in has extra warp drives and / or other minor modifications.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
I have to agree with Andrew, the nacelles sure aren�t like the standard oberth-nacelles. Yeah, we don�t get to see much of the ship except the saucer, but I still think it�s unlikely that it�s been modified to such an extent. The Pegasus was an apparently unauthorized experimental ship. To do drastic modifications tends to attract attention. It is much more likely that it is a standard Oberth-class vessel on the outside of the starship. So the okudagram is just an omission, IMHO.
------------------ "The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something." Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
It could be that the phase-shift effect that the cloaking device employed would affect the warp systems in some way (or that they needed to be used in a different configuration) so the okudagram indicates the two states of the warp fields. Just an idea...
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Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
If the Cloaking/Phase-Shift Device required exotic materials that could have been a problem, attracting attention, unless it was from a tech testbed ship, that often had requirements for the odd and rare.
Then again, maybe they got what they needed from the blackmarket.
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[This message has been edited by Ritten (edited October 25, 2000).]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
It's been well-documented that the Pegasus was an (almost certainly unmodified) reuse of the blown-to-shit Oberth model used for the Vico
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Andrew et pIn'a: That's just a standard symbol for a nacelle. The size and shape don't match anything. After all, even the Cheyenne's nacelles aren't straight w/ a bit of rounding at the ends like that.
Ritten: Erm... You might want to re-read what you posted. I think you made an unfortunate typo... *LOL*
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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
LOL! Now we know how waste-extraction works... Phase-shit devices!
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
And the Pegasus can't have been a reuse of the "blown-to-shift" Vico, since the Vico model was missing huge chunks of the forward parts of her saucer and ventral pod. The Pegasus has an intact bow sticking out of solid rock.
I'll dig out my old Chinefantastique issue, but I seem to remember that the Pegasus model was built to scale with the four-footer E-D model used for the filming of the cave scenes. It would have to be a custom model, then, since I believe the Grissom model was bigger.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I'm sure that it was a newly built model... it seems to have more detail and its a bit more 'blue' on the top compared to the old Oberth model.
Maybe that Star Trek Mechanics book mentions this fact!?!
Andrew
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
So if they made an all-new Oberth model for this episode, which apparently COSTED something to build, then why didn't they just built the Cheyenne???
------------------ Homer: "I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me, Superman!"
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Maybe it was cheaper to build an Oberth model than a new Cheyenne model.
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Posted by Pro. Portside on :
Mybe they used an oberth insted of an cheyenne because the ship would be sticking out of the rock. The oberth looks like no other ships, but the cheyenne might be mistaken for a galaxy class due to the fact that the cheyenne was designed around the dorsal section of the galaxy class primary hull. and because of this a new modle was needed so we get a new oberth modle( or at least the bow of an oberth)
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Vico, since the Vico model was missing huge chunks of the forward parts of her saucer and ventral pod. The Pegasus has an intact bow sticking out of solid rock.