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Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

Well I just picked it this All-Borg issue. They have small articles on the Saber and Steamrunner classes plus fold-out sheets for both and some nice full-page CGI pics. A couple of statements about the Saber I found odd: 1. it was introduced in the 2370s--it has got to be older than that. 2. The entire ship is similar is size to a Galaxy saucer--I don't think they are that big.

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"Ah, the Luftwaffe. The Washington Generals of the History Channel."
-Homer Simpson

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

Well, if you believe the Fact Files silhouette chart of Starfleet vessels, the Saber is incredibly huge...which contradicts the Encyclopedia, but backs up the Magazine.

I also agree that registry-wise, the Saber class should be older. IIRC, the Yeager had a registry of only 5XXXX, but then again so did the Prometheus.

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Star Trek: Legacy

[This message has been edited by Dukhat (edited February 03, 2001).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Can someone scan those Steamrunner and Sabre pics and post the here???

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"That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!"
- Crighton, Farscape.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I was under the impession that the Sabre was about the same size as the Defiant, only the nacelles made it a bit longer. All ship-charts I've seen confirms this, for what it's worth. The same size as a Galaxy-saucer, who came up with that?

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

Apparently, the person who wrote the article in the Magazine

I can't remember who posted the FF ship chart with the huge Saber...I think it might have been PiNa'Sov.

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Star Trek: Legacy

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

I will scan them later today

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"Ah, the Luftwaffe. The Washington Generals of the History Channel."
-Homer Simpson

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

The only known registry for a Sabre Class starship is NCC-61947.

And, though never resolved, registries don't indicate age. I would tend to agree that the Sabre Class was introduced during the run of TNG (2364 to 2370) and first introduced to us in 2373.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

Some of these pics we have seen before, but here they are--hastily attached to a web page. http://members.nbci.com/vanguard47/Ships.htm

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"I tried once to be a history teacher, but I saw no future in it."
-Homer Simpson

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

61847? *whistles*

It'd be pointless to wanna go and kick their asses, because their heads are so far inside, you'd kick their ear.

------------------
"...screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" - Omega.

Irony ensues.

Free Jeff K

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

If they had just made it NCC-71947, instead of 61947, it would of been a whole lot easier. Yeager...1947, I think most people here see that connection. I'd guess they came into service in the late 2350's to early 2360's, and we just only got to see them in 2370's.

As for the Prometheus, I still believe it's actual intended registry is NX-74913 as seen on its dedication plaque and MSD. Only that the CGI department screwed up and put NX-59650, with Okuda's art department getting it right. Afterall, registeries may not be 100% accurate for telling when a ship was launched, but he did say they're semi-chronological. I know the email's been reprinted at least once here.

I'd like to get a larger 800x600 of that new pic of the Steamrunner too. Unlike the Saber one, which looks like a slight touch-up, this is a cool looking new image.

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"Great Idea!!" - DARKSTAR
Federation Starship Datalink: Brand new look, fresh minty scent, same great taste!

[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited February 03, 2001).]

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

Even the orthographic views show 61947. And if anyone wants a bigger version of the picture, just give me an email address to send it to. I have not figured out yet how to upload just plane picture files to NBCI's member's site without inserting them into a web page.

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"I tried once to be a history teacher, but I saw no future in it."
-Homer Simpson

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

That is one bad ass ship, if they'd only do them all that way... with a decent size comparision we'd be rockin'...

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

[This message has been edited by Ritten (edited February 04, 2001).]

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

That's the first good aft view of a Steamer ever. And does she look good from behind.

Finally, we see the shuttlebay! One big one, snuggled in there between the nacelles. But then, where're the impulse drives? Those odd things just below the shuttlebay?

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

That's the problem with the FC ships...lack of detail. Well except the Akira which got more attention than the others.

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"Great Idea!!" - DARKSTAR
Federation Starship Datalink: Brand new look, fresh minty scent, same great taste!

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Well, the first and the fourth pictures just look like the pictures as seen in "The TNG Sketchbook"

The second is just the first with some warp 'stars' and a lense flare- thingy on the bussard collector.

The only worthwhile picture from the new mag looks to be that new angle of the Steamrunner.

P.S. It'd be nice if we could see the BOTTOM of these First contact ships... including the Norway.

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"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited February 04, 2001).]

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Actually, one of the Sabre pictures looks a little different in angle - I think that it was a new render.

Anyway, I agree. More ventral! More ventral!

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

I can't see these images at all. They just will not load.

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"Businesses used to be like Christianity; if you were faithful and obedient, you could obtain bliss in the afterlife of retirement. Now it's more of a reincarnation model. If the worker learns enough in his current job, he can progress to a higher level of employment elsewhere."

- Dogbert

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Ditto.

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"Lately I've noticed that everyone seems to trust me. It's really quite unnerving. I'm still trying to get used to it."
- Garak, "Empok Nor"

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

You have got to see the images
Galen's Ships

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/saber1.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/saber2.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/steamrunner1.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/steamrunner2.jpg

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

I've always liked the Steamrunner-class, out of the FC ships it's my favorite. It seems that Paramount has completely disowned the Norway-class. And as for the Saber image, it's really easy to reposition the angle like that.

------------------
"Great Idea!!" - DARKSTAR
Federation Starship Datalink: Brand new look, fresh minty scent, same great taste!

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I really like the Streamrunner (NO Typo!) schetch. Now THAT is one cool ship!

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"That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!"
- Crighton, Farscape.

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Where can, or can, it be found on the net??

------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

------------------
"That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!"
- Crighton, Farscape.

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited February 04, 2001).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

That's the front view on the left, by the way.

You can also see some Akira elements in there. They actually started with one design, and ended with three: the Steamrunner (which was originally Streamrunner, but somehow the R got lost in between departments), the Akira and the Norway.

------------------
"That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!"
- Crighton, Farscape.

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited February 04, 2001).]

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Thanks for the larger scans Fitz. I agree, the original Streamrunner does look good. Especially from the front, it kind of has a tough "don't mess with me or I'll fire a torpedo up your ass" look.

------------------
"Great Idea!!" - DARKSTAR
Federation Starship Datalink: Brand new look, fresh minty scent, same great taste!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

That sketch is upside-down, compared to the final result. And I think the Steamrunner's butt-ugly. Besides, wasn't that torpedo bay converted into a deflector dish in the end?

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 04, 2001).]

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Both designs, upsidedown or not, are kick ass. More sportish than combative.

------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Damn. I was hoping for schematics. . . Are there any?

- Dogbert

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

The Streamrunner may appear threateningly; however, she is a very weak combatant. I counted at least 7 of these ships being destroyed by the Borg weapons in the eighth movie. And this is with one or two shots.

There is something very bad about these ships. When a weapon hits the connection between the primary hull and the nacelle, the Streamrunner Class starship's affected side is consumed by 'fire' and the ship is severly disabled or the starship is destroyed completely. These connections could be centers of high plasma energy, that when hit, explode. I guess the closest 21st example is if an enemy ship hits the magazine of another warship, the affected warship will be severly damaged or destroyed by the resulting explosion.

I remember in the film that as a Streamrunner Class starship approaced the Borg ship, the Borg ship fired a single round into the Federation ship. The round hit the connection and, about a second later, the starship is destroyed by a large explosion. Furthermore, the only recorded instance of a Federation starship being destroyed by shrapnel is a Streamrunner Class starship in the eight movie. The shrapnel is from the Borg ship.

I would not want to serve aboard the Streamrunner Class starship.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

[This message has been edited by targetemployee (edited February 05, 2001).]

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Of course, that doesn't mean that those particular Steamrunner's hadn't been fighting the borg for 3 days before getting destroyed.

------------------
"...screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" - Omega.

Irony ensues.

Free Jeff K

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Like I said, they look more sporty than combative....
High speed scout, special operations/Section 31 agent deployment/recovery vehicle, and the such.

------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

What is with the lettering on that Sabre? The name and registry at the front in the little divot area is correct - but look up on the side of the tail area - the name and registry are reversed!?!

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"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Yep, they are, looks like they made a little goof...

------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

The only closeup-scene of the Steamie, flying over the Enterprise-E and firing phasers, paint it out very sluggish IMO, roaring up there.
As for fragile design-issues, well maybe that's what you get when you design the deflector dish hanging down from the craft, out into outer space.

Now the Sabre, darting past the Enterprise viewscreen upclose like a bee, in the first seconds of the battle, gave me a real impression of a high-speed scout.
------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 05, 2001).]

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Were there any schematics in the magazine??

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"That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!"
- Crighton, Farscape.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The aft view of the Steamrunner seems to confirm what I suspected - the ship has a GIGANTIC shuttlebay, with a single superwide door.

Perhaps this vessel is inherently vulnerable because it is analogous to an aircraft carrier? Large numbers of small craft and their fuel and ammo stacked inside, big cavities that compromise the structural integrity...

I've long fantasized that this is a "Marine" ship, a planetary assault vessel of sorts - it's not supposed to stand its ground in space battle at all, but only to disgorge large numbers of troops. Like some current USN amphibious warfare ships, it's built to "commercial" instead of "military" standards to avoid unnecessary expenses. Its only major forte in space combat is that big phaser at the bow, seen firing into the spot designated by Picard - perhaps a limited-application planetary bombardment weapon?

Do these ships have photon torpedo armament? That is, have they been shown firing torps?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Does anyone have the LCARS pictures from the Mag#22 with Barcley on the cover?

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"Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning,
If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three!
-Queer As Folk, UK

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

And the shuttlebay on the Steamrunner looks similar to a Galaxy Class main shuttlebay.
------------------
"Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning,
If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three!
-Queer As Folk, UK

[This message has been edited by Michael_T (edited February 05, 2001).]

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

quote:
Do these ships have photon torpedo armament? That is, have they been shown firing torps?

No, as far as I can see the Steamrunners in FC fired only phasers. I've counted 3 times a Steamrunner firing:

Steamrunner 1a
Steamrunner 1b
Steamrunner 2
Steamrunner 3

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The question then goes, do DS9 episodes show these ships firing torpedoes?

I would gladly welcome the idea that this ship has no torpedo launchers, despite its considerable bulk. Every time Starfleet introduces a ship apparently built to a specific purpose (and omitting some of the traditional "nice to have" hardware), it's time to rejoice.

Do Sabres fire torpedoes?

And has anybody read the "SF Corps of Engineers" e-books? Why are those folks flying around in a Sabre? Are Sabres specifically qualified as towships or flying workshops?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

Yes. http://fitz8472.hypermart.net/saber1.jpg

In this scene it seems that they have aft launchers too: http://fitz8472.hypermart.net/saber2.jpg

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited February 05, 2001).]

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

A Sabre has been seen firing torpedoes in "Tears of the Prophets" too. I was thinking that turret-like extension on the top of the ship could be just that.

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Yes, it certainly looks that way. The Saber clearly fired torpedo's from it several times in First Contact.

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I thought a professional demon chaser like yourself would've figured it out by now. I'm the Slayer. Slay-er. Chosen One. She-who-hangs-out-a-lot-in-cemeteries? Ask around. Look it up: "Slayer, comma, the."
- Buffy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I wish the two square doors in the "mouth" of the Sabre are launchers. Then this ship would be a feistier "Defiant Pathfinder" than the "Defiant Pathfinder".

We all know the launcher-sounds can differ from episode to episode (Ent-D), but during all them wonderful sound FX from the beginning of FC, I liked the way that Sabre kind of spat away the torpedo.

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

Both ships are featured in fold-out orthographic views.
http://members.nbci.com/vanguard47/saber.htm http://members.nbci.com/vanguard47/steamrunner.htm
The top view is missing as I would have had to rip out the pages from the magazine to get decent scans of that view.

The Dauntless is also featured and the magazine claims it is half the size of Voyager. I seem to recall that they appeared to be roughly the same size.

P.S. Fitz, are those my scans that you enlarged? Looks like I hit the fill button in PSP when I was trying to clean up the first Steamrunner pic. There is a lot of black that has creeped in over parts of the ship.

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"I tried once to be a history teacher, but I saw no future in it."

[This message has been edited by Galen (edited February 05, 2001).]

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

How the conversations slip by when you're away for a day. Anyway, getting blown up by the Borg in a single shot is not exactly something to be ashamed of.

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I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

FINALLY! Some decent ventral-side views of the Sabre and Steamer! Of note:

-Where's the shuttlebay on the Sabre? Those small doors on the aft undercut?
-Likewise, the placement of the Steamrunner's impulse engines are strange. They stream right into the nacelle pylons...
-The arrangement of the hull markings on the Steamer's ventral side is odd. Replicated only on the Constitution underside, I believe.
-Still nothing on the placement of the Sabre's torpedo launchers. Also, with its three phaser strips, there's no coverage aft. Kinda like the Defiant...

Mark

------------------
"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

I take that back - on the Sabre, there's a small opening just under the main deflector, akin to the launchers on the Sovereign. However, there's no matching apperture on the aft side, though. The oval thing is the core ejection hatch, from the ventral view.

Mark

------------------
"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

quote:
Fitz, are those my scans that you enlarged?

Yes and no. Those are your scans but I didn't enlarge them. Just copy and upload.

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Has anybody ever done an in-depth analysis of the size of the Sabre class, the way there are excellent treatises of Akira or Steamrunner or Defiant size?

If one just counts the window rows, the ship *could* be double the Encyclopedia length and closer to the FF (and now possibly Magazine) length - and the numerous tiny lifepods would also make more sense. And those front "shuttlebay doors" would actually allow a shuttle through... I tried hunting through available screencaps of FC and DS9 battles, but there weren't any obvious comparison shots where a Sabre would fly in front of or behind a ship of known size.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I'm having problems seeing the pages with those scans on them. Is there something wrong with the pages or is this another disfunction that is unique to me?

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"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I get a warm "server could be down or not responding" welcome, too. I hope things will get better by tomorrow. I definitely want to see the undersides of as many FC starships as possible! (Is there a word for this type of perversion?)

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

starshipuality..... it's both a sexual and spritual perversion that seems common here.....

------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

According to the article, the Saber's shuttlebay is in front--in that notched-out section under the bridge. Don't ask me why so many are getting errors trying to load the pages. Maybe Fitz can copy and upload again.

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"I tried once to be a history teacher, but I saw no future in it."

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

No, wait, they did open after all - except that the link to the Steamrunner underbelly was broken. Dang.

These pics would seem to prove that at least the Steamie has big enough openings in the bow for them to be shuttlebay doors. And indeed there don't seem to be any torpedo launchers. That settles it - this ship is a dedicated carrier of some sort.

Perhaps the Steamie flies in a nose-up attitude, so that the deflector has a better view forward and the impulse jets don't hit the pylons?

The Sabre could be much, much bigger than she at first seems. I think there are two features on the ventral side that could be torp tubes: halfway between the bow and the ventral phaser strip, there are those indentations, one ahead of and above the other. Those would be responsible for the rapid volley of torps the ship in FC final assault scene spits out of her lower bow. A separate launcher could possibly be installed on the dorsal aft end of the ship, the angular "module" up there, to account for the other FC firings of (somewhat redder?) torps to other angles.

Funny how the little squares on the Sabre hull are labeled as "escape hatches" instead of "escape pods"...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Escape hatches? Hehe. Just think - the crew can play the "Laugh In" scene with all those opening doors!

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

It seems that the Saber has its forward torpedo launchers in that notched-out section under the bridge. http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/saber_photon.jpg

BTW: Has anybody a guess what this ship is? http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/fc_unknown.jpg
Could be another Oberth.

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

It's a MacDonald-Class III-A variant.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

If it's traveling to the southwest in the picture then it's definately an Oberth. If you zoom in you can make out the small nacelle "wings" and the big blimp it's dragging between its legs.
The white dot in the lower feft of the ship is the rim of the saucer-section, reflecting light.

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 06, 2001).]

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I inspected the high-res pictures of the sabre we got a couple of days ago and you can clearly see a mounted node of some sort just above the first digit, the 6, in the registry. It covers the Y and E over Yeager.
It must be the forward launcher. It looks like it's double-barreled, could explain the volley in FC.

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 06, 2001).]

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

There was a fan-produced MSD of the Sabre... Anyone link to it? It was posted here not too long ago, but I can't find it...

Mark

------------------
"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The botom view of the Saber shows the Nav deflector pointing aft instead of forward and the haven't drawn any structure in the front part of the bottom bump that could be the deflector.

Me thinks these schematics are not entirely accurate...

Posted by Antagonist (Member # 484) on :

There are always oversights in star trek ships it seems like. The Galaxy for instance; when the saucer was separated from the engineering hull, the engineering hull supposedly had worse maneuvering on a certain axis than if the saucer had been attached and the whole ship had been performing the maneuver. Why? With the saucer attached the thrusters were farther from the center of gravity. Now this is more understandable than the Streamrunner's oversight, but for the sake of discussion I suppose there was some reason or another that particular spot was vulnerable on it, maybe the writers merely wanted fodder for their spiffy cgi scenes.

I really wish they would have had some pictures of the Norway. It seems to be the scapegoat of the FC ships, maybe because it appeared in fewer scenes at odd angles to make it almost undistinguishable from the Akira. I can only hope they will have an article or two in future issues, even though I know that will never happen. *sigh*

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Here it is.
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/cutaway.gif

This MSD shows a launcher in the nose as well as the tail. Good enough for me.

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

quote:
This MSD shows a launcher in the nose as well as the tail. Good enough for me.

Captain: "Mr. Y, fire torpedos!"
BOOM

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited February 06, 2001).]

Posted by Antagonist (Member # 484) on :

Dog Gammit futhermucking Bon of a Sitch! This post spent all night on my computer and was in response to Targetemployee's post on the first page. I suppose somebody in my house saw it and hit the reply button thinking it was finished. *shrug*

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

There is a long distance shot of a Norway Class starship as the Borg ship explodes. The ship is seen in the lower right corner.

Someone mentioned earlier that the Streamrunner Class starship is slow. I think this is proven by the escape velocities of the starships as the above mentioned Borg ship ended its service life. We see three of the newer classes-Akira, Norway, and Streamrunner-escaping from the debris path. Based on the data, I conjecture that the Akira is the fastest ship. The Streamrunner is the slowest, with the Norway being the second fastest.

A question-Is CGI more or less expensive than traditional model making? If less expensive, then why don't the producers use CGI more effectively?

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Aban: when I saw the ventral diagram of the Sabre, I also thought that it had the deflector dish pointing aft. It took me a while, but I think it is pointing forward. You just have to keep in mind that the dish-part is smaller and there is a very large section of grille between the dish-part and the edge of the secondary-ish hull. On top of that, the dish-part seems to be pushed in further than on other designs. So, I think the dish is pointing forward, but it looks wrong because 1) the ship has a funky dish design and 2) the proportions of the dish are funky as well.

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Nic: She's not a practicing lesbian. We need PRACTICING lesbians!
Me: I have a camcorder.
Nic: But no lesbians.
Me: Ahhh... no.
Nic: DAMN IT MAN! WE NEED LESBIANS! LOTS AND LOTS OF LESBIANS!

ICQ Conversation From January 23, 2001.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Ahhhh. I think I see it now. At least I see where the dish is supposed to be. It's that curved notched line that I thought was a phaser strip there to the right of where the line pointing to the dish ends. To make it clearer, the line should be pointing to the curved line which is actually the upper part of the deflector housing.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well the "lamp shield"-like deflector mouth is the giveaway...

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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

When in hell did all of you get your issue? I am still waiting for mine and the ST Communicator. I subscribed to it months ago and never got one yet. With the ST:M I got one after Christmas in the mail but not now, I am DUE for a fucking one.

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Do you know it has been 5 YEARS! since we've been able to see the ventral sides of the Sabre and Steamrunner!

Andrew

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"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Nimrod, I don't see how come anybody would think your from anywhere but the USA, 'lamp-shield'...

**Wes, can we get a few spoilers tossed in here**

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them

"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

Nice fan-created MSD for the Saber. Has anyone out there created one for the Akira?

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"I tried once to be a history teacher, but I saw no future in it."

Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :

http://www.neutralzone.de/Picture/Akira08.jpg

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"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

OOOOoooh! Nice!

Looks very good, although the deflector dish looks like it is one, maybe two decks to far down.

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Aban: "Ahhhh. I think I see it now. At least I see where the dish is supposed to be. It's that curved notched line that I thought was a phaser strip there to the right of where the line pointing to the dish ends. To make it clearer, the line should be pointing to the curved line which is actually the upper part of the deflector housing."

No. The line points right to the deflector housing. What you thought was a phaser strip is most likely the ventral sensor array -- looks like the species found on the Galaxy class, even though it isn't specifically called out as such. Look at the schematic again, this time knowing that the forward face of the secondary hull is concave, not convex. The aft undercut of the secondary hull is much farther back.

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Well, this is what I'm seeing. The actual dish may well be way the hell back against the aft wall of the housing, but that slotted line is definitely not a phaser strip.

edit-- well, I had intended to post a comparison graphic, but I'm a complete dumbass and threw it away, before I posted it...

*sigh*

I'll post it later. I'm too lazy right now...
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"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited February 12, 2001).]

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

OK. I got it now. The schematic is correct. Here:
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/saberdetail.jpg

The shaded part is the engineering hull. I thought the area encompassed by the oval to the right of the shaded area was part of the EH. My bad.

I get it.

Proceed with the discussion and I'll be quiet...

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

WHERE did you get that schematic from!?! Those types of schematics are soo COOL! I'd love to see all the new ships like that... better than those wierd Encyc schems...

LOVE IT!

I wonder about the warpcore ejection 'hole' - does it mean that the warp core fires out the back - does that then mean it could be a horizontal warp core... or like the defiant a vertical warpcore - but doubled in on itself for space purposes...

I still think that the Sabre is a 'family' member with the Defiant... and that she was another of the "weapons" that Starfleet were months away from completing along with the Defiant...

Andrew

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"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Not necessarily, given the NCC (and *I* think it's chronological) and the apparent lack of "new weapons" that Shelby was talking about in "BoBW". No, I just think that the Sabre is the latest in a long list of light cruisers that we'd just not seen until now.

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

A horizontal Warp core would be logical for a thin ship.
And if gravity did have anything to do with the dispersal patterns of the warp coolants, couldn't it be solved easily with some stasis fields or something?
Could the ejection hole be used to scale the ship, right? So we don't have to worry about it being the same width of a Galaxy saucer?

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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

That schematic was posted on page 2 along with all the other views. I just inverted the color.

That's the bottom view of the ship, so I guess I just assumed that the ejection hole was facing down. But, it's on a sloping face, so I suppose it could be facing aft. Check the aft schematic...

As for scaling, the escape pods appear to be the same as the Galaxy Class ones. Use them for scaling...

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The aft view shows the ejection hole as a narrow ellipse, so I guess the core fires more or less straight down...

Using the lifepods (or "escape hatches"!) or the windows for scaling, one gets a ship about the size of the Steamrunner main hull - in fact, one could superimpose the two hulls rather nicely. In side view, the ship would be similar to a Miranda in size, 250-270 meters long. This would make more sense than a 170m ship, if we are to assume that the two squares on the bow are shuttlebay doors - they would be the smallest shuttlebay doors of that type ever seen if the ship was just Defiant-sized.

One wouldn't have to give up the DS9 TM "light cruiser" designation even with a 250-270m ship. Of course, the Miranda should be a "light cruiser" then as well. A crew count of 40 is nonsense in any case - there are, what, 108 lifepods on the ship, and far more volume than in a Defiant even if the Sabre is just 170m long.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I seriously doubt the ejection chute would be turning. A horizontal one would actually be better, the whole thing could lie sideways against the long side of the room, and you could reach every part of it, just by walking sideways!

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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

Anyone have good schematic drawings of the top sides of the Saber and Steamrunner? I couldn't get them out of the magazine without cutting out the pages.

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"The Internet. Is that thing still around?"
-Homer Simpson

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Look at page two of this thread. There's about 8 schematics posted.

Who said anything about the ejection chute turning? I just can't tell if it runs horizontally or vertically.

Posted by Galen (Member # 72) on :

Got those pics, as I posted them originally. Just trying to find top views.

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"The Internet. Is that thing still around?"
-Homer Simpson

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Whoops. Sorry Galen. My bad :0) Also sorry that I can't help you with the top view. I may have something at home...