Ben
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/aliens1.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/aliens2.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/Federation.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/sides.jpg
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Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
GOD-DAMN THOSE ROMULAN WARBIRDS ARE BIG!
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
Damn, Galaxy class are like a tiny little ant compare to some of the alien ships!
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What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.
Wow, you sure got every ship on that last chart. All kinds of kitbashes and such. Thorough...
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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
Anyone know of good schematics sites that are still open?
Let me plonk in a link to my chart, as it may be relevant for the purposes of stirring the pot
http://solareclipse.net/fmmp/Interstellar2.jpg
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.
I knew about the B'rel class (first seen in Trek III), and the K'vort (seen in TNG), but where the hell did that really small one come from? What is going on here? ARGH!
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
I left out a few ships from my charts because I had only rough drawings or because the size was uncertain. Maybe with some more schematics from the Fact Files and some new size calculations we will soon be able to have a chart with really *all* ships of Star Trek.
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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
Some things I don't agree with: Saber should be way bigger, and Freedom way smaller. Contact me for further details.
I never realized the freighter from "Babel" was that huge. Quite a contrast to see it reused as Neelix's tiny shuttle...
Is the smaller McQuarrie really that "twisted" in side profile? I agree with the size estimate, definitely.
It was heart-warming to see the TAS freighters again.
IMHO, there should be two sizes of the Cardassian freighter: one in the given size for the Cardassians, one about twice as large for the Klingons as in "Sons and Daughters" (Martok's big/midsize BoP was tiny compared with those behemoths). The Klingon ones had those wing-mounted engine thingies and probably also different bow shapes, so one needn't necessarily invoke the scaling paradox.
Timo Saloniemi
Jeff: I think there is only 1 size of BOP (re: scaling problems). I prefer to think of the 'kvort' as a subtle ploy by the Klingons to confuse Federation sensors. The 110 m length is good for me.
Bernd: I was thinking of posting a list of all the FF and ST:Mag schematics I have acquired (and that's quite a lot) to the forum. This way, we can all compare notes and perhaps share. I've got things like the Benthan ship fore and aft (but no other views), and Office complex (only top view), etc. This way, we'll all have access to better schems.
Timo: I'm pretty satisfied with the Freedom on 2 points. (1) Its saucer is similar/identical in dimension (L/W) with several other classes: New Orleans, Niagara, Cheyenne, etc. This makes sense when you think of what the Modelers used in BoBW. I agree with you that the Saber has some difficulties. I prefer to think of it as a smaller ship. The schematics I've seen for the Klingon freighter are identical to the Cardassian freighter. Do you have other schems for this ship?
Again, thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
Ben
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Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
Oh, and Timo, I posted a topic to this forum a couple of days ago "Wolf 359 schematics" which nobody followed up on where I talk about the 'twisted' McQuarrie ship. I've had to base my schems on those sketches, which are badly distorted. I'm looking for better ones. I scaled the ship based on a 'constitution' sized (L/W) saucer.
Ben
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Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
One thing that I noticed was the small nacelle pair on the saucer of the Nebula Melbourne. I realize that you're using the shipschematics.com diagram for the silhouette, but the small nacelles are actually on a pylon that sticks far out behind the saucer, not directly above the saucer as pictured on your diagram. Maybe you can fiddle around with the silhouette. Other than that, great chart!
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Lisa: "Don't you remember the story of Oedipus?"
Homer: "Maybe five dollars will refresh my memory."
Lisa (angrily): "Oedipus was the story of a man who kills his father and marries his mother!"
Homer: "Uggh! Who pays for that wedding?"
Shabren's Final Prophecy: Star Trek: Legacy
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"I am slightly disturbed that a news station in the US would use the phrase 'to the max'. What's next? CNN saying 'Totally righteous murders?' BBC News 'Dude, like people were wasted yesterday'. The Times reporting 'Iraq bombed! For Great Justice!'?"
-Liam Kavanagh, 22.Feb.2001
[This message has been edited by TSN (edited February 26, 2001).]
Hopefully we can use the "_____ had sensor-confusing technology used to mask the true size (and nature) of the vessel." Insert: klingons, Federation, new species from Workforce, the aliens from the Delta quadrant who used the Peregrine class modification, etc. into the ____. We know the Federation used it... it explains the intrepid/consitution/danube fiasco.
Ben
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Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
I think it works best if the D-12 is the small scout and the B'Rel is the midsized beastie. That brings the VFX errors within a more acceptable margin...
--Jonah
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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
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"Sack me!? I MADE the BBC!!"
Scroll down to see that the BoP wingspan barely matches that of the freighter. In contrast, "Return to Grace" apparently showed the 36-man BoP to be more than half the length of the Cardassian freighter. The wing-mounted thingamabobs are visible here, but the bow shape is difficult to discern. It somehow seems more bulky than the Cardassian two-prong to me.
And if the Freedom nacelle wasn't the Galaxy one, but rather the one seen mounted atop those early Nebulas, then the ship would scale down to something with a Constitution-sized saucer; that is, a modernized Saladin/Hermes design. That would fit with the neck structure, too. The saucertop bridge assembly wouldn't be two decks high, then, but just one. But we haven't seen any good close-ups to confirm the Fact Files bridge configuration yet, whereas we have found out that the Niagara FF schematics were erroneous - so I don't want to argue against myself on such flimsy evidence.
Timo Saloniemi
BoP: The same as always http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm
Plus my guess that the Rotarran was scaled to 137m to match a 170m Defiant.
The ship from Babel (Jaheel):
The ship can be seen docked to DS9 and it looks a bit larger than the usual Bajoran freighter, Wadi ship or the various "Antares" class vessels.
Freedom:
From what can be seen on the FF diagrams and on screen in BoBW, the ship seems to have a bridge (deck 1) plus a raised deck 2, probably with a shuttlebay. This is only possible if the ship is quite large, and this would match with the Galaxy nacelle. I don't trust in the accuracy of the FF diagram concerning the windows in the neck. They are not visible on screen anyway. The only way to make the ship overall smaller (it could have New Orleans nacelles in this case) would be if the decks 1 and 2 are sticking out much more than it appears.
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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
------------------
Lisa: "Don't you remember the story of Oedipus?"
Homer: "Maybe five dollars will refresh my memory."
Lisa (angrily): "Oedipus was the story of a man who kills his father and marries his mother!"
Homer: "Uggh! Who pays for that wedding?"
Shabren's Final Prophecy: Star Trek: Legacy
I agree with Bernd in general about the BOP and Freedom. The model makers for BOBW used 2 different sizes of Enterprise-D parts. Thus we have:
New Orleans: small saucer with small nacelles (with extensions)
Niagara: small saucer with large nacelles
Freedom: small saucer with large nacelle
Challenger: small saucer with small nacelles
(plus the Cheyenne and Springfield with small saucers and marker nacelles).
All in all, the Freedom really isn't so big. Remember when we thought it was a full-sized galaxy saucer with 1 nacelle. That would be both big and ugly.
In general, my philosophy is based on pragmatics. What did the writers and producers want to show us? Obviously gaffes like the NCC-1305-E and the Prometheus NX-59k were problems. I generally go with the most consistent result. Otherwise, we're making a lot out of a little. The one big problem I see is scaling. Obviously they don't want to show the Defiant as 120 m next to DS9. They also scaled up the Rotarran to match the Defiant. In the writers/producer's minds "it doesn't matter". ------------------ Ben ------------------ ------------------ ------------------ --Jonah ------------------ --Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
I have posted the updated Federation chart with my new top view and Bernd's side view of the Nebula variant. It'll take me a while to put the names in. I might have to cut up the views a little (maybe 3 charts for the aliens and 2 for the federation). Ben ------------------ --Jonah ------------------ --Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
When were the orions portrayed? Haven't seen it... ------------------ -Tleilaxu Epigram
Timo Saloniemi
------------------ It's a nice ship, like a Y-Wing. Beef it up a bit around the sides and you'll have a nice troop transport or fast destroyer. What's the funky thing under the Intrepid layout? ------------------ -Tleilaxu Epigram
All of these ships are Federation. He was looking for evidence of a conspiracy in SF. To look over Romulan (or any other alien) data files would be relatively pointless. Nimrod: That ship is the afore-mentioned 'neutronic fuel carrier' or whatever. It is scaled based on the single Constitution-upgrade nacelle. Ben ------------------ ------------------ Forgetting the in-jokes, it would definitely be a command decision to be reviewed if, say, Starfleet apprehended an Orion vessel and then inexplicably let it go... Timo Saloniemi
--Jonah ------------------ --Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
I'm going to be pedantic. (As usual.) There is no FASA Ptolemy type. None of the FASA ships looks much like the Ptolemy. So anything that looks like a Ptolemy probably is a Ptolemy from the Star Fleet Technical Manual and not a FASA ship. There is a FASA ship, the Nelson class scout, that looks very similar to the Saladin/Hermes. But I think that it's much more likely that something that looks like a Saladin/Hermes is a Saladin/Hermes rather than a Nelson. As far as I know all the FASA ships that have ever appeared on display screens have come from the Star Trek Starship Tactical Combat Simulator rulebook rather than from the three Ship Recognition Manuals. The Wanderer and Lotus Flower are on opposite sides of the same sheet in the former book, the Nelson is only in the Federation Ship Recognition Manual. ------------------ ------------------ the 'prototype' Voyager - middle right. And the 'prototype' Excelsior - middle bottom. Andrew ------------------ I think thats it. Anyway, awesome job! ------------------ ------------------ Might be one of Bill George's Excelsior-designs. It's an early prototype for the USS Voyager. It's the Melbourne from BoBW and Emissary. The first one is the SS Huron from TAS The Pirates of Orion. ------------------ Identity Crisis: Fair enough, though they are Ptolemy, and Saladin/Hermes. I've never gotten into FASA ever, so I'm not familiar with them, other than to say those designs are pretty awful. Bernd: many races use 2 nacelles, but how many use saucers and 2 nacelles (Romulans and Federation). AndrewR: Yeah, because no one has drawn their front views. Several of these schematics have my front views (and side, and top), including the new Nebula variant. I will get around to doing them all eventually. Wes1701: Great idea, I hadn't considered that before. I can probably finish that in an hour or so and post it up. Stay tuned. The ship to the up/right of New Orleans is the Excelsior study model #2 seen in Unification and probably BOBW. The two tanker-looking ships above the holoship are the Huron and the Independence, both (I believe) from TAS. I should have the finished charts up tonight. Thanks for your input. Again, I do have larger versions (400% larger) of these charts, but I don't want to 'break the bank'. Ben ------------------ Some ships are easier to scale, but believe me - I cringe at the Vidiian Ship 1 (aka Merchantman). I bet there are tons of modelers out there that could come up with better designs. ------------------
Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
Posted by Balapoel on :
Oh, I forgot to say, all 4 images are scaled to each other. So if you wanted to grab all the Wolf 359 ships or compare the Dominion vs. Federation fleets you can just cut and paste them into a new document.
Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
The only way that could be cooler is if they were labled somehow so that the many ships whose identity I just can't determine were known to me.
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Posted by Balapoel on :
I'll see what I can do. What is more pressing, the Federation odds and ends or the alien ships?
Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Balapoel: The Challenger has a small Galaxy saucer with large Galaxy engines, from what we can see...
"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
Posted by Balapoel on :
You're right, and I have it sketched with the larger nacelles. I just wish we had a clearer look at the model.
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/Federation2.jpg
Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Why do you assume the Orion Wanderer is a Federation-designed craft? The TOS Bird of Prey also had cylindrical tapering nacelles with rounded red endcaps. If Cochrane thought of it, other races could copy it. After two centuries, the Orions could no doubt make their own derivative design...
"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Is the orion the one to the right of the Yeager?
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The Orion ship is the one to the right of the Constitution-refit in the lower part of the picture. It was only glimpsed as a schematic in those early TNG computer screen data dumps ("Conspiracy", at least, but possibly also "The Last Outpost" and "The Naked Now").
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I believe the two to the right of the Yeager and the one between the Sovereign and Constellation are TAS ships.
We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
"Wowsers!"
-Star Trek: Series ?: "A Pair o' Docs, part II"
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Oh.
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
Posted by Balapoel on :
Peregrinus: I'm assuming it's Federation for 2 reasons. The first is that (aside from TOS Romulan BOP) the saucer-2 nacelle design is typical federation (n=1 vs. n=30+). The second is that Data was looking at it in the computer files related to the "conspiracy". We also see the following ships:
(1) FASA Ptolemy type
(2) FASA Saladin or Hermes type
(3) wanderer
(4) 'neutronic fuel carrier' with the single Constitution upgrade nacelle.
Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Ha...the FASA Lotus Flower-class civilian freighter. Always did like that design.
"Gee, the public whipping didn't quite convey their fascist culture, I need something more straightforward. Ah, leather hats!" --Nimrod, on National Socialism fashion design.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Well, apparently Data did look into the secrets of an upside-down parrot with the head of Gene Roddenberry and feathers strangely remniscent of a Starfleet uniform. If that was relevant, then probably an Orion ship could have been, too.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Or there could have been something to do with pirate activity being deliberately ignored...
"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
"Data was looking at it in the computer files related to the "conspiracy". We also see the following ships:
(1) FASA Ptolemy type
(2) FASA Saladin or Hermes type"
-->Identity Crisis<--
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I have some of the "computer display" ships in my "uncertain" list http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/other_ships.htm
but the Wanderer is not among them because it was supposed to be alien and looks rather alien. Many races use two nacelles. There might be ships with Federation registry, though, but in such a case we would have to include all the Antareses and other small cargo ships too.
"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Some ships are missing their 'front' views...
"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
very very nice, but needs labeling for those of us that don�t know EVERY ship. perhaps inside the silhouettes themselves? I can identify all of the ships except about 10% of the federation ones. such as the wierd domed-sauser ship ajacent (up and right) to the new-orleans, the one above that (seems to have a promethous hull??), the four nacelled Nebula-like ship below the nebula class, and the two tanker-looking ships above the holoship.
Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Studios � The United Federation Uplink �
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Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"
Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
What are the 2 ships, directlyt below the Sydney on the far right? sorry if this has already been asked
"You put the geeks on the left and the stalkers on the right and you run for daylight up the middle"
- William Shatner, discussing a Star Trek Convention on EW-
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:
such as the wierd domed-sauser ship ajacent (up and right) to the new-orleansquote:
the one above that (seems to have a promethous hull??)quote:
the four nacelled Nebula-like ship below the nebula classquote:
and the two tanker-looking ships above the holoship.
Don't know what the second one is.
"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
Posted by Balapoel on :
Timo: By the same argument, we can say that the Ptolemy and Hermes are also pirates. Obviously, we don't know, but given that 4 out of 5 are Federation, it seems likely that the 5th one is also Federation.
Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
Posted by Balapoel on :
Okay, I've labeled all the ships, and I've added several more alien ships.
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/fedlabel.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/alienlabel.jpg http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/alienlabel2.jpg
Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.