Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Defiant Potatoes (YES, potatoes)

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Can the Defiant hold out her potatoes and land on surfaces? Methinks it would be reasonable, und neat...

I did miss many ep's btw "The Ship" and "The Sound Of Her Voice", just bought the most important tapes I could decide on, they do cost 24$ per volume here.
Maybe I missed something defiantly interesting?

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Vermillion hells!!! Can some merrciful soul erase the turnip out of this extra-thread? Much obliged.

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

The ship has landing struts. At least there is one schematic that says so.

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Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Really? Whose schematic?

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Ok then, please erase the shit out of the OTHER thread, Mr Vulcan, er, admin...

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The schematic on the Ship's MSD as well as the one in the DS9 tech manual shows two (presumably two pair) landing struts curled up on the lower deck. They are probably for landing on moons or asteroids since Sisko has said that the ship wasn't designed for atmospheric entry.

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"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Oh. *sebulbaspeak* "POODOO!!"

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

The struts could also be for landing in starbase repair bays.

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"Lately I've noticed that everyone seems to trust me. It's really quite unnerving. I'm still trying to get used to it."
- Garak, "Empok Nor"

Posted by DARKSTAR on :

It was stated in the DS9TM that the Defiants landing struts were for EMERGENCEY planetry landing unlike Voyager where landing is routine. i.e. If a Dominion patrol had pursued the Defiant to a Class M planet and it was forced to land. The crew could land the ship and activate the cloak wait for the patrol to leave orbit. The crew could then leave the ship repair what damage was done to the hull and if the Impulse reactors and thrusters were working the ship could then then acheive an orbit and ultimately return to DS9 at maximum Warp.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well, "emergency-use" pads or zero-G grappling paws sounds reasonable. I used to feel that it would be better if she could land, but she probably IS more optimized as a no-nonsense fighter if she doesn't have to carry all the extra equipment needed to endure descents and ascents through planetary atmospheres.

About that (some Trek-tech philosophizing), I've sometimes wondered if the internal pressure on Trek-ships causes hull stress over the years.
All that air wanting to burst out, wouldn't that start a really slow "buckling" process that finally emanates in a crack somewhere? Isn't that a problem for shuttles of today, or is the vacuum-pull already negligible to modern materials?
I've always felt it would be nice if engineers, during "1000:d-lightyear" spacedock-maintenance, let out the air by opening a few airlocks throughout the ship, letting her adjust her bulkheads and support beams to the pressure and relax.

It would be like laying down in a sofa after having stood in the same spot for ten hours.
Mmmmmmmm..... :-)=
(Look, my new Abe Lincoln smiley!)

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited February 26, 2001).]

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

You mean they couldn't just go back at warp two or warp 3?

Anyway... To me, emergency landing implies it's the last resort if we don't want to die. The Galaxy saucer is designed for emergency landing. If the Deffie is designed that way, and the ship HAS to land, the crew should probably batton down the hatches around the subspace tranceiver, cause they're gonna need help getting home.

Just MHO.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

What about the reasoning that had been bandied about here before... that the Deffie's landing struts were for landing on pads in those large mushroom starbases and the like.

Andrew

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"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I'd never heard that theory before, but it works for me.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Oh, I see. Fabrux had to go directly over to jail, so none of his posts counts for two rounds?

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Sorry, Fabrux. I can only concentrate on one idea at a time.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Fab! OMG! I totally missed your post... my bad.

Sorry.

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"This is cooling, faster than I can..." Tori Amos "Cooling"

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Darkstar, if you activate a cloak whilst on a planetary surface there would be a visible rippling effect, in which case the ships would detect you from orbit and blow the poo hooties out of you. That just isn't a viable option.

Before you say it, I know they did that in ST IV. But that IMHO was a big fup up.

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Re: Russia in WWII

"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The effect may be more noticable from orbit than it is from the ground. I think the only referece to that phenomenon was the time the were talking about the possibility of a cloaked Romulan base on...was it Galorndon Core?

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Galorndon Core?

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Nimrod:
When constructing submarines, present-day engineers have to contend with multiples of atmospheric pressure. A starship's hull would only have to contend with one internal (and momentary multiples external from weapons strikes, but that is an energy defense issue). I doubt that a vessel's hull is depressurized for standard refits (can you imaging fixing the inside of a starship wearing a spacesuit?), but it would be upon decommissioning and mothballing.

Evidence: during the baryon sweep, the entire crew was to be offloaded. This would have been the perfect time to depressurize the hull if it was required.

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Faster than light - no left or right.

Posted by Shipbuilder (Member # 69) on :

A fairly constant internal pressure load wouldn't be that big of a problem, you simply pick a material that has a yield strength above that constant load (viable with today's materials).

The difficulty involves a changing pressure differential, either externally or internally. Most aircraft for instance have a set internal pressure, but they are forced to contend with varying external pressures as altitude increases. In effect, the aircraft is constantly contracting or expanding in flight (something to think about on your next flight). This in turn causes the materials to be subjected to fatigue stresses which CAN and DO cause failure below the material's yield strength.

Starships that do not regularly land on planets with atmospheres should only have to contend with the constant internal pressure vs. space vacuum condition and should be easily (from a materials standpoint) designed to meet these conditions. Those that can land probably have factors of safety and routine inspections, just as aircraft of today do, to ensure that the contracting/expanding loads do not initiate a crack.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

The BoP cloaked on the surface in ST4, and the holoship cloaked on the surface in ST9. Apparently, claoking on a planet is viable. The only reason the holoship was visible when they drained the lake was because it still had water running down it.

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We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
"Wowsers!"
-Star Trek: Series ?: "A Pair o' Docs, part II"

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Er...and it was detectable with a tricorder. I'm still not convinced that it was truly cloaked as opposed to just hidden via fancy holograms.

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I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Thanks guys, that was very satisfactional. Jelly-turnips are on me!

About the old BoP's primitive cloak, the ripples only occur when the area/light behind the field is moved in relation to it, such as the stars far behind Kruge. Were it on the ground, the background wouldn't move at all, and we did see that the ripples weren't visible upclose. Although that woman should've gotten one hell of an electric chock.

What I find apocryphal is the fact that you cannot fire through a cloak field, but you can apparently have gigantic sheets of glass and a fat man transported through it at will...

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

It's not that you can't fire through it, it's that the ship doesn't have enough power left when the cloak is active to fire weapons. At least that's the explanation I've always heard.

Galorndon Core was a planet in the TNG ep the Romulan dude defected. I think.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Yes, I didn't mean the cloak is impregnable, but if energy is the problem then you could at least fire torpedoes or jettison mines, they can't all be disabled by the cloak. As this has never been attempted, however, there must be something else.

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited March 01, 2001).]

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

I guess the Defiant comes close to a ship with a cloak to drop land mines.

As for the landing struts on the Defiant, I'm sure once Voyager returns all ship with the landing capability will be refitted to be able to land on planetary surfaces.

It would also be a good excuse to show that Defiants are built on the Utopia Planitia surface yards...

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"Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning,
If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three!
-Queer As Folk, UK