Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Ent-E torp/captain yacht problem

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Posted by Zor Prime on :

Has anyone noticed that the torp area under the primary hull of Enterprise E doubles as the captain's yacht that we saw detach in "Insurection"?
The area directly behind the torp tubes is the windshield of the yacht.
Hmm...

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

We don't really know what the mechanism for the torp launcher looks like though. It could have also been refitted since FC to add the Captain's Yacht.

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"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

The black launcher is in front of the windshield. You can see it's shape 'carved out' in the nose of the Captains Yacht. The torpedos are lowered into this black launch tube from above. So the Ent-E can still fire torpedos from this launcher if the Yacht is detached.

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Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Actually, the windshield of the yacht is not properly indented for the launcher to fit in - Eaves first drew it that way, but the producers decided it was too ugly, so the final CGI has a more rounded 'shield that probably won't fit properly into the cavity. See the scene where the Yacht detaches from the ship.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

In terms of design, that is such a stupid idea, the only reason to put it there is becuase "it's cool"

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

And because the other "big" ships have them (Galaxy, Intrepid).

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

But not cennected to a torpedo launcher.

I might as well haul my ass on a battleship gun and let them fire.

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Altair: "The black launcher is in front of the windshield. You can see it's shape 'carved out' in the nose of the Captains Yacht."

You are talking about the captain's yacht, right? Because 'carved-out shape in the nose' sounds more like the oval indentation in the nose of Data's Scout, the one with internal nacelles. I find no carving in the yacht-nose.
Now I'm really confused.

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited March 07, 2001).]

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Well, the Yacht did originally have a deeply inset forward windshield, to accommodate the launcher. But that model was not accepted for the final movie because it looked too ugly. Instead, a non-dented windshield was used.

In contrast, Data's scoutship originally had a more curving and bulging windshield, but this was scaled back into the dinky triangular windows when it became clear that the interior set would be revamped from Voyager's "type 9 shuttle" interior set which had those small windows.

So basically, the Yacht went from garage-fitting to not-garage-fitting, and the Scout from stylish to ugly. IMHO, the latter was the more serious mistake.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Funny, I think the scout is the most beautiful shuttlecraft ever built. It'll succeed the Danube in every role, even armament, having an internal torp-launcher... Do the shuttles have to look like DeLoreans to be functional???

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

For Danube successor, I'd rather nominate the shuttle (or runabout - we never heard the official designation of the craft) Worf and Picard used.

It had all the goodies of a runabout - torps (or at least iso-whatever pulse launchers, labeled as torp tubes by Eaves), phasers, seriously big warp nacelles, transporters (and probably not the dinky emergency units of standard shuttles, since the pad assembly was so prominent), and lots of unexplored interior space with impractical nooks an crannies and a far too small entry door.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

But that shuttle was only 3/5 of a Danube's length, the scout is one metre longer, according to most charts...

You had a briefing room in the Danube, I'm sure you'll find one in the scout as well. I don't think the smaller shuttle would even be given an individual registry.

Well, that's all the time we have, be sure to watch us in "Galaxy Vs. Sovereign" next week!

------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

According to the making of ST: Insurrection the shuttle is about 15 meters and the scout about 25 meters. The Yacht is (guess what!) about 35 meters.

And I believe Picard said he would take a shuttle to go after Data. I'm not sure though...

I tried to make sence of the internal structure of the scout, using the side view and the ladder behind the cockpit. The best I can come up with is that the spine has two decks, and the wings one. But I think that the scout still has less internal space than a Danube class Runabout.

------------------
Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited March 08, 2001).]

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well they can have their damn meetings in the john, OKAY???
mutter-mutter-mutter

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Danubes have micro-torp launchers, and I could swear we've seen 'em fire full-size torps, too. More efficient use of available space... Call me wierd (*waits for it*), but I'll take the Type 7 shuttle and Danube runabout to the Type 11 shuttle and Talon scoutship any day of the week.

Also, the Galaxy-template Captain's Yacht is much nicer than the Sovereign-template yacht, in my very unhumble opinion...

--Jonah

P.S. Nimrod: What did you mean by that DeLorean comment?

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :

Personally, I think that the Galaxy-class Captain�s yacht looks like someting from Area 51. ;-)

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"The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something."
Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"

Posted by Zor Prime on :

Yeah, and if the TNG writers were on their toes, they could have used that aspect of the D yacht to good use in a time travel story. But alas..

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Peregrinus: I think the design and look of the Danube class looks as blocky and ugly as a DMC DeLorean.

I'm not surprised, though, it was conceived in the eighties, so a legacy from those days is understandable.
I however like the newer designs, and I don't think Starfleet would shovel resources into new designs that are of worse quality compared to their predecessors...

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

What is it with 'blocky' the Danube is one damn fine vessel... it embodies everything a Starfleet Starship should have... and it is of the Galaxy-nacelle/design era... its much nicer than any of the drek thought out for Insurrection...

Why does everyone want 'streamlined' starships!?! This is space... there is no need for aerodynamics... and even in atmospheres of planets... the ship uses antigravitons etc. to maneuvre... not wings.

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"Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in
Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If
Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by
now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

............................................ Nimrod, my boy, I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you now. Preferred method: Having a friend hold you down while I repeatedly back over you with my DeLorean...

...and then club the remains with one of my Runabout models...

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

This little one's not worth the effort. Now can I get me something?

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

*narrows eyes* Oh, like you're actually going to get away with insulting my favorite car and then pass it off with a paraphrased quote from Star Wars...

The Force is with you, Nimrod...

...but you are not a Jedi yet.

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Evolved (Member # 389) on :

"Why does everyone want 'streamlined' starships!?! This is space... there is no need for aerodynamics... and even in atmospheres of planets... the ship uses antigravitons etc. to maneuvre... not wings."

Exactly! What's with this flashy Batman-type tech they're coming out with everytime?

Oh, and I thought the Danube-Class Runabout was designed in the early 90s for DS9. Right?

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Ace

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Yes, and why not stick to one car design and one hairstyle!

Since starships are so easy to build the may as well put their own stamp on them, and Starfleet's ships have numerous examples of fantastic aesthetics...

Oh and Pilgrimus, your audacity is commendable, but there's alot more than Jedi tricks in the works here. Be careful not to trip on any small, urple-hue objects on your way home.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

The DS9-pilot is from Stardate 46379. The earliest TNG-ep with Danube that I've seen is in "Timescape", in 46944.2, so maybe it was made for DS9.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

It was made for DS9, but building the rear compartment of the Danube got sneaked into the TNG budget for "Timescape."

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"I never saw the TAS, there actually was sex on the bridge?"

- Matrix, 14/03/2001

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

So that was the first danube of TNG? Was it the only time?

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Yup. And it was the only time we saw the aft compartment on a Danube as well, although parts of it eventually got recycled into the quarters of the Nebula-class USS Prometheus, and the quarters of the Defiant.

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

(And, BTW, don't threaten me with your 133+ turnip skillz either, Nimsy...)

The making of DS9 goes to some length with the development of the Runabout for said show. The first runabouts seen or mentioned were the three dropped off at DS9 by the E-D in "Emissary" -- Rio Grande, Ganges, and Yangtzee Kiang.

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Aw. He's testing his troll skills. Well, don't be too long, the dinner's almost ready. Steamed apples. Do you like apples?

"Emissary", huh? So they were part of the big E's machine park at first? Makes sense, instead of them going to DS9 under their own steam, at warp 4, right?

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Wow. It's been YEARS since anyone accused me of being a troll. You started the whole thing by casting aspersions on my preferred mode of conveyance -- that, incidentally, I spent fifteen years lusting after before I could manage to acquire. It is a good car, and a pretty car, and I'm sorry you don't think so.

Now, then. Moving away from the fact that Nimrod's a turnip-spinning, DeLorean-hating aesthetically-demented cheesehead...

Yeah, the runabouts were part of the Enterprise's stable, and I like to think they weren't the only ones on board either. Look at the size of the main shuttlebay, as well as the associated hangar facilities. Three runabouts could have been parked to one side just inside the doors without cluttering the deck at all.

--Jonah

[This message has been edited by Peregrinus (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Get a stiff upper lip, son.

I have nothing against deloreans really, it's just common to joke about, carwise, ever since "Back To The Future". MJ Fox said it himself. But you HAD to take it as a personal attack, what can I say?
I never use my turnips in anger, and you had no reason to react like this. I don't care what you think of DeLoreans and Danubes, and neither should you vice versa.
Now let's start all over, ok?

Have we gotten satisfactory answers on the Ent-E torp thing? Shall we summarize?

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Summary: "Everything is all messed up, sir!"

--Jonah

P.S. Nimrod: You DID start it by calling DeLoreans boxy and ugly...

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Yeah, well that's MY opinion. And I will not start discussing car aesthetics here. Period.

If you're so horny for a car-debate, make a thread about it.

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

All right. Then how 'bout the fact that it was a comparison to the Danube, thus indicating you find THEM blocky and ugly, too -- again getting this one's dander up.

But see, I can deal with someone not particularly liking some ship design or other. That's personal preference in a fantasy environment. But by being oblique and employing a real-life comparison, you inadvertantly cast aspersions on something a lot more tangible and dear to me even than my beloved Danube, seeing as how my DeLorean is a real car in my real life, and much more of a reflection of my personality than any preferences I may have in Trek.

Take the advice of the tag line on the "Officer's Lounge" and don't bring reality into the mix of these discussions. Toodles...

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

"my DeLorean"

Are you saying you actually own one? Pictures, please!

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Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

I'm confused. Is Peregrinus bossing Nimrod around?

FIGHT!

Go Nimmy beat him down with a double assault of turnips and seniority!

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"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Sol: Yes I do. I'll see about pics. It may be a little while, as I get easily distracted, and also have a tendancy to take up to six months to go through an entire roll of film (that's right -- no digital camera).

UM: Not trying to be bossy. Just got rubbed the wrong way when Nimsy dissed both the Danube and the DeLorean in one breath, when I happen to be more than a little fond of both vehicles.

Zort!

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

What's wrong with having streamlined starships and aux. vehicles? It's the Trek universe and I'm sure there's an explaination other that Berman and Bragga have the power to change designs to their liking. Perhaps it's a tradition thing?

And don't bag on the Danube, they are very cool, although I'd only ride onboard the Rio Grande since it seems to survive more than other runabouts.

As for the captain's yacht on the Enterprise-E, it should have remained with the recessed window so we wouldn't be bitching about it.

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"Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning,
If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three!
-Queer As Folk, UK

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Jonah, the reason I ask is because, IIRC, you live in or around Seattle, and the idea of seeing such a car, which to me exists solely in the realm of films featuring Michael J. Fox (not counting Doc Hollywood), juxtaposed with locations that I know to be real gives me some sort of otherworldly chill.

I suppose that may sound odd, because it is. But I like that sort of thing. It's like being in detention in high school and looking around only to realize that Molly Ringwold and Judd Nelson are there too!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

"Take the advice of the tag line on the "Officer's Lounge" and don't bring reality into the mix of these discussions."

Wow, we're taking executive action. This is actually amusing. But sorry, I don't see any truth in your claims...
Listen man, you obviously can't handle this matter professionally or you would've taken my first chance at reconciliation and peace. That's ok, there's a lot of guys like you, not completely adjusted to the terrains of forums.

I will however NOT let this board polarize into a DeLorean-poll, although I think that's what you're trying to do.
I stand by my comment about the relation btw it and the Danube, if you can't take it as a man (Yes, people like different cars) then start some other thread instead of making an exhibition of yourself, although you have no grounds whatsoever for furtering this spectacle, other than a childish reaction over a teeny weeny comment.

And by the tone of your posts, I can hear you're pretty agitated, probably by thinking you've been very wronged. The feeling will only get worse if you keep this up, it won't go away, as I can simply bounce back any and every emotion-packed argument you try to make... And I have no interest in fighting with new members over trifles like this. (I'll bet you'll convert that statement as being aimed at your precious DMC...)

Here's an idea. Find a DeLorean chat group or something that you can have on the side. Maybe they can give you what you need.

(See this? This is called diplomacy. Look it up sometime)

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited March 20, 2001).]

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Guys...I think what began as a bit of the ha ha at the expense of wacky modern design has gotten crosswired and rerouted at every point. It would not be good for us to forget that we love all the lovely people, regardless of whether their car doors swing out or up. Yes?

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Thank you for that olive branch.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :

Just to clear things up, the Captains Yacht was on the Ent-E in FC.

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Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Studios � The United Federation Uplink �
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Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Nimrod: That's not diplomacy. That's patronizing. I actually WASN'T getting antagonized by most of this -- and I still can't figure out how to enable the graphical smilies -- but I can see upon review how my tongue-in-cheek (or rather, raised eyebrow) replies were seen as such.

I'm not trying to turn this into a DeLorean popularity contest, and your suggestion that I find a DMC forum struck me as very condescending. You began this by making a tiny comment comparing DeLoreans to Danubes, and I requested clarification, since said comment did not make clear if you liked the styling of the vehicles in question or not. You don't. Got it. I find that unfortunate, but I'm not about to try and alter your aesthetics, misguided though they may be (see, this is where I'd insert a wink-smiley if I knew how to do so).

At this point I made what was supposed to be a wry commentary on how you should be careful about dragging real-world comparisons into a thread without knowing if that comparison will be viewed the same way by everybody, by graphically pointing out that we had diametrically opposing views of both the DeLorean AND the Danube. You responded by not responding to my point, and attemping deflectory humor. I responded in kind, and we went back and forth like that and I THOUGHT we had gotten it hammered out when I made what I was hoping would be the last post on the subject, where I again was trying to put a wry spin on things. You then called me a troll, which I have never in twelve years of posting been accused of, and things went downhill from there. Hopefully, this gets everything straight and we CAN drop it.

Back to the relevent stuff:

Sol, I'm FROM Seattle. I currently live in Southern California.

As for design styling... The Danube design had clear roots going back through the Type 7 shuttle all the way to the TOS shuttle. The new stuff seems to all be coming from a completely different design firm that the one(s) responsible for the past hundred years' worth of small craft design. I'm not saying I dont like it. It's just a little too jarring a shift with no transition between styles.

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Polarized De Lorean poll:

[x] it is a car.
[ ] it is not.

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Not. Duh. It's a time machine. Sheesh.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

"dragging real-world comparisons into a thread without knowing if that comparison will be viewed the same way by everybody"

There are countless comparisons to real-world things in the S&OT, you just want to slap my hands for this particular one, because you like your car.
So you are the one who should keep your reallife feelings towards the car out of here, so that you can participate objectively in these threads.

Besides, if my memory serves me correct it is the Officer's Lounge that needs to keep reality out.

Making a parallel btw a DeLorean and a Danube is completely justified IMO. Purely technically they both ARE blocky and contain an 80's-look. You may argue that the Danube was conceived in -93, but this is my opinion.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

And as for "patronizing", I tried to be nice. For example, www.supercars.net has several forums about cars, you could check that out. Car enthusiasts are not in shortage, you know.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Perhaps the runabout design was first created in the early years of TNG, but brought out and modified into its current form when DS9 was created.

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"Oh for fuck's sake, stop your moaning,
If you fancy a threesome at this time of night, you can't get start getting choosey about which particular three!
-Queer As Folk, UK

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Nah, The Making of Deep Space Nine pretty clearly shows the process Rick went through to come up with the Runabout, and it started no earlier than '91.

--Jonah

P.S. Nimrod: The point I'm trying to make is that I'm NOT a car enthusiast. I am enthusiastic about MY car, but that's not the same thing by a far stretch.

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

You know, I thought people only got this touchy about their time machin...er, cars in the movies. And if this was a movie then everyone would be suspecting Peregrine of either:

1/ Having a dead person in the boot
or
2/ Being sexually inadequete.

(*thinks* I've just accused an American of having a small willy. I might as well have just called him a "bloody colonial" and married his cousin. While calling him gay).

Personally, I can see the comparison between the Danube and the DeLorean. But, rather than be sensible, I shall run away and hide.

*runs*

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You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

My fiancee would disagree with all counts. Doesn't faze me. Don't worry. *heh* *wink*

--Jonah

P.S. How the smeg does one do smilies and italics and boldface? I feel very inadequate on THAT front...

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

: ) =

: ( =

I've never used the others.

As for italics and stuff, I'm not quite sure how many posts you need to use HTML. The UBB Code can be found here, though.

Oh, and ; ) =

I think there might be a : 0 =:0
Or no?

[This message has been edited by Sol System (edited March 27, 2001).]

Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

Thank you. I shall begin experimenting when appropriate...

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

: D =

And Peregrinus has made enough posts to do html or ubb code.
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[Bart's looking for his dog.]
Groundskeeper Willy: Yeah, I bought your mutt - and I 'ate 'im! [Bart gasps.] I 'ate 'is little face, I 'ate 'is guts, and I 'ate the way 'e's always barkin'! So I gave 'im to the church.
Bart: Ohhh, I see... you HATE him, so you gave him to the church.
Groundskeeper Willy: Aye. I also 'ate the mess he left on me rug. [Bart stares.] Ya heard me!

[This message has been edited by PopMaze (edited March 28, 2001).]