Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Nebula-Class Starships are UGLY!

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Well, they are. They're lacking a certain sleekness posessed by many other Federation starships ... even the Miranda-Class has more of a sleek feeling (but that may be because it doesn't have a bulky secondary-hull slung underneath -- call me crazy).

I mean, they look kinda cool and all -- I'm staring at my Micro Machine model right now -- but there's a certain lack of style and grace possessed by this ship.

I remember writing a pilot episode for Star Trek: Valor once, which was based on this Star Trek Club I was in waaaaaay back in early high school, and boy did I have a lot of misconceptions about that ship -- for one, I liked the Class a lot more than I do now. For another, I decided it could seperate sections too. Wouldn't that be ugly?

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

That would be ugly, yes.

They design may be compact, but is very impractical at some points:
- The nacelles block part of the firing range of the phaser on the bottom of the saucer.
- The newer triangular pod strut blocks the saucer shuttlebay.
- What do they do with deck numbers with different pods?

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Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :

Well, they can't make 'm esthetically pleasing to everyone, ya know

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I'm simply saying that the Nebula-Class is particularly ugly to me. That is all. These are not the droids you are looking for. Move along.

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :

Your mind tricks will not work on me, young Jeff.

Anyway, we all have our personal preferences, I can think of a lot uglier designs than the Nebula (*cough* Oberth *cough*).

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"

Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :

Your Jedi-mind trick will.....Oooops wrong forum...

Cough..Norway..cough, to quote the above post almost correctly :-)

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"The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something."
Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I think that almost everyone agrees on the Norway being ugly. That's most probably why it was never seen again after 'First Contact'.

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Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

Going by that reasoning, Altair, why are you still around?

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"Sack me!? I MADE the BBC!!"

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I think the Oberth-Class is pretty cool, actually. I like that sensor pod slung underneath.

Question: are the only areas accessible on the Oberth-Class in that circular area up front? I know the pod is un-accessible (well, except for repairs maybe), but can crewmembers get into that section of the hull between the nacelles?

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Why should the pod be unaccessable? Didn't someone post a size comparison thingy of the ship showing that there was, in fact, just barely enough room in the connecting struts to fit a small turbolift?

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Neutral Milk Hotel
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Posted by Evolved (Member # 389) on :

Oh, and I'm sure the Sovereign and Prometheus are just the most beautiful ships in Star Trek... :-P

Sorry, I have a certain affinity for the Nebula-Class, that's all. If you think of the sheer mass and size of the ship, it does have a sleekness to it...and elegance.

In fact, the Galaxy, Nebula, and Excelsior-Class ships all have a nice majestic feel to them. The "new" designs just seem too flashy and too focused on looking like a bullet. Connies and Miranda's arn't that bad either...

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Ace

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited March 05, 2001).]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Frankly, I think the refit-Constitution-Class is the most GORGEOUS ship I've ever seen.

Posted by Evolved (Member # 389) on :

Of course! I'd say that any ship that doesn't have the "Star Wars"-it's cool because it looks like a pencil-feel to it looks nice. Why does everyone like the Prometheus? It's a flying cone!

Anyway, the Nebula doesn't have that many impracticalities. The shuttles still have plenty of room to fly though before they hit the pod support, and the secondary hull ventral phaser arrays cover the areas the large saucer one can't get.

I guess in the end, we're comparing trucks to sport cars...ugly sport cars.

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Ace

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

I don't see why the Norway gets a bad press. It's not like you can ever see it properly - in fact, what views we do get of it look quite interesting, with its delta-wing shape. Unfortunately, all we have to go by are some poorly-done orthographic views, and I'd like to point out that the other three FC ships don't look to hot in those either. The Steamrunner's upper view completely belies its sleek lines (look at it in "TCFoE" if you don't believe me), and the Akira looks downright ugly from the side. And the Sabre's side view is actually wrong in differentiating the nacelle from the secondary hull.

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"I rather strongly disagree, even if I share the love of Dick. Speaking of which, that would be the most embarrasing .sig quote ever, so never use it."

- Simon Sizer, 23/01/2001

Posted by Evolved (Member # 389) on :

Not to mention the guy who designed them had no idea of Trek tech. Fifteen torpedo tubes...uh, yeahhhhh...

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Ace

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Design-wise, I favor the Steamrunner and Intrepid-classes.

As for why everyone likes the Prometheus so much, I have no clue. I'm not particually fond of the design myself.

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Federation Starship Datalink: Brand new look, fresh minty scent, same great taste!

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Hey! What's wrong with the Oberth? I think that if it were streamlined just a bit, it would be a real beauty. By the way, considering the amount of potential deck space in the underslung pod, I think there has to be access to it. And it doesn't have to be by turbolift.

Hasn't anyone ever thought of running something like a tram car in those pylons? Like a turbolift flipped on its side with seats installed. It would fit perfectly because it lacks the height that makes a normal turbo impractical. Something similar was illustrated in Todd Geunther's Ships of the Star Fleet Vol II in the Akyazi class starships.

Otherwise, the refit Constitution is my all-time favorite ship. She just has a wonderful feeling of elegant grace.

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Ace - 15 tubes? Someone had to do it eventually. If it were rationalized into proper treknology, most of those launchers would be rapid-fire micro-torpedo launchers, as described in the DS9 tech manual.. Or at least, mini-torpedoes (microtorps are 10 cm long - suuuure).

Hobbes - The Prommie is just do gadget-cool, it's tough NOT to like it. Doesn't everyone remember those 1970s robot shows with the three jets (or whatever) that combine into one giant robot? I loved those, and I love the Prometheus. Go figger. Just wished it had a better bridge...

Daniel - People here have run calculations: yes, there's ample space in those pylons for a turbolift car to move between the hulls, without having to tilt over or anything. The only question remains is *why* the were designed like that.

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I would imagine it would be to be able to swap out different sensor pods.

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

And *I* like the Nebula class. Short, fat, ugly. That's the idea, and I like it for that.

On the practical side, I'd surmised that the Nebula was the most adaptable of all the current-era designs. The module, if swappable, would be able to mount anything really necessary, and give the ship a per-mission flexibility beyond that of most ships. That is, load 'er up with a bunch of sensors, and a Nebbie could outdo the standard pallet of Galaxy-class equivalents. Weapons, ditto. Extra warp engines, why not?

Plus, the lack of windows in the earlier-seen model of the Nebula only reinforced that - instead of standard rooms under there, you can have lots of mission cargo bays and transporter-swappable modules (as described in the TNG manual) capable of customizing to anything you really need.

Overall, the Nebula may not match up to the GCS in every department - but give it a layover at a starbase, and it can kick a Galaxy's butt in one or more of the same.

As for aesthetics, it's up to the individual. I think it's cool in its non-gracefulness, and even cooler in its practicality. S'me.

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

I think that the Nebula class is good looking ship (probably because it has the Galaxy class parts) The ship was probably designed to be a cheaper alternative to the Galaxy class and multi-roled ship too. Similar to the Galaxy class but smaller and more adaptive.

Why does the turbolift have to be inside the pylon of the Oberth? Why can't there be tracks or something on the inner side the pylons where a smaller turbolift runs along into and out of the secondary hull.

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

'Cuz then you'd have to de-press/re-press all the turboshafts all the time, which just wouldn't make sense.

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by Evolved (Member # 389) on :

Right on the nail, Mark!

I guess the main reason I like the Nebula is it's utilitarian design. The ship makes sense. Perhaps that's why it appears as the workhorse of the 24th century Starfleet.

As far as if she's ugly...well, I like the look of it. Especially when they did the beauty pass of the Farragut in ST: Generations. It was just so...majestic.

As far as the 15 torps...the problem is the torp. launchers are on the CGI model and worse, they're full size. Granted, we've never seen an Akira fire her full load, but thanks to the Akira, we've got fanboys going "15 torps is greater than 3 torps...Akira is DA BOMB! Galaxy sux!!" and so on...

(Sigh) I don't know. I think the guy who designed her didn't understand that a single launcher has rapid fire capability already. Just what is the tactical value of having 15 tubes in such a small space? When she's armed, all an enemy would have to do is target the little "launcher warehouse" and she'll go boom.

Anyway, to sum it up:

I still like the Nebula-Class.

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Ace

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

Posted by Evolved (Member # 389) on :

The Oberth isn't that shabby, either. My thinking is Starfleet felt that as years go by, the extensive sensor/science equipment could be replaced easily with swap outs. How the Nova-class fits into this...I have no clue.

Something to note on the Nebula. Up until it was turned into CGI, it actually differed from the Galaxy model design with a different saucer, main deflector/secondary hull, and other minor details such as the Starfleet pennant on the shuttlebay. Then, the CGI folks probably didn't bother to incorporate any of these features. Our current Nebula has been "Galaxy-ized". Even odder, this CGI model has various ship names and registries all over it...

Example of Differences: USS Sutherland (1st Generation) vs. USS Honshu (2nd Generation)

Solution: It recieved a design refit, further proof Starfleet finds it a valuable class.

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Ace

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited March 05, 2001).]

Posted by Tech Sergeant Chen (Member # 350) on :

With all due respect to Andy Probert, I never really liked the E-D. Too squat, wide and with way too many curves just for the sake of curves. But the Nebby as a truncated variant is even uglier. They haven't made the perfect starship for me yet, but the closest to my ideal are the classics, E-nil and E-A, and the new classic, E-E. I'm not a big fan of the Prometheus. It's not bad, just not great. Basically on a scale from 1-10:

E-nil 8
E-refit/A 8
E-B 4
E-C 3
E-D 5
E-E 8
Voyager 6
Nebula 2
Prometheus 6.5
Dauntless 4
Defiant 7
Danube 2
Data's Scout 6

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Never give up. Never surrender.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

OMG! I LOVE the Nebula... it was a great ship in "The Wounded" just hanging in space there with the Enterprise and her both at warp. Its the Enterprise's kin... its beautiful. The most brilliant appearance of the Nebula class was in Generations, when we FINALLY get to see just HOW BIG these Galaxy-generation ships are... it was VERY impressive.

The Oberth I like too. Its a different design, but it IS starfleet... It IS the federation...

I feel that I like the ships that are Star Trek ships - by that I mean look at the Enterprise and the Oberth they are original and unique ships... they are ships that didn't or don't have equivalent looking things in any other sci-fi universe. they LOOK like they are built to be in Space... something that would not be practical to be landed on planets. Another thing is that Star Trek ships are supposed to be big, graceful yet lumbering through space... they are all gigantic cities... I'm actually getting tired of seeing Star Trek ships portrayed as these little sports cars or aeroplanes that can zip and bob between every asteroid from here to Jupiter... they are supposed to move grandly through space. The way they moved the Enterprise-E in Insurrection, really was abhorred. Look at that cutaway of the Sovereign class, and SEE what is in it, and what this ship does. Its a giant "captial" ship... its not meant to go dodging and weaving through space debris and then skirting along ships like something out of Top gun.

The best appearance of ships have been the TOS movies and Generations... and TNG. And Early DS9... look at "The Jem'Hadar" now THAT is how you show space battles on Star Trek.

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Has anyone seen my Pulaku?

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

To be fair, Galaxy-class ships have never been shown as particularly zippy. Look at Sacrifice of Angels. They move very slowly and quite gracefully. They certainly don't pull any fast turns, unlike the Miranda's, which dart about all over the place.

Generations too, the Enterprise was hardly super-manouverable.

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Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

norway picture created by yours truly

from star trek armada
http://members4.clubphoto.com/harry314334/Feb_22_2001_3/photo6.jpg?1

better for slow loaders?

[This message has been edited by TheF0rce (edited March 07, 2001).]

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Um, this thread's about the Nebula class. And fan pictures should be in the "Design, Artwork and Creativity"-forum one notch down.

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

oopse sorry
i posted that when it was said the norway was an ugly ship
but it took so long to register that the thread moved on LOL

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :

An honest mistake, (some of us don't know how to post images anyway for one: me!)

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Predict the unpredictable, but how do you unpredict the unpredictable?

Posted by BRUTUS on :

"Nebula-Class Starships are UGLY!"

Oh yeah? Well...y..your UGLY!

Andrew R, yeah I hate the current streamlining. The Sovereigns have some elements I like but I don't like the indistinct separation between the primary and secondary whole. Looks like someone stepped on it and the thing squished and slid forward at the same time. Very annoying.

I've always loved that opening shot of the Enterprise-D in TNG where it sort of descends onto the screen. You know the one? It's so grand and majestic and I love it.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

It's still hard to access this page.

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

don't look at me
must be those other pics posted by Ace

what connection do you guys use?
i play online regularly and thought the whole world must be on cable now.

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Some people don't have access to ultra-high-speed connections.

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"Lately I've noticed that everyone seems to trust me. It's really quite unnerving. I'm still trying to get used to it."
- Garak, "Empok Nor"

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Hey, I have a 277kbit DSL, it's still weird.
The trick with this page is to let it load the normal time, then press the "stop" button in your unrelenting browser, and it will skip the picture and simply show the page.
Not that we should accept this strange "power-drain", it could come in other threads...

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Bah! And here I was defending you thinking you had a lowly 56K modem like me. Well, never again!

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"Lately I've noticed that everyone seems to trust me. It's really quite unnerving. I'm still trying to get used to it."
- Garak, "Empok Nor"

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Oh no!! Now I will never blend in with the people standing around the water dispenser... Damn society classes!!

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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Uhm, mister TheF0rce, why do you put ?1 after every picture? Sure it works, God only knows why. But you can remove that and it still works. Also I think that's the problem with the loading time.

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Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

i just copy and pasted-i don't understand why there is a one eigther

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

I have a mere 56K connection and the page loaded fine...

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

PsyLiam. Re Galaxy Class ships and 'zippyness' I didn't say that, or I didn't mean that the Galaxy's have been zippy... I'm talking about ships like Akiras and Sovereigns... and well every ship since the CGI has been used more heavily...

and Actually the Galaxy's might have been a bit lumbering in tSoA but they're still zippy... look at the 'background' galaxys... and look at having those two galaxy's so close when they both attack the Cardassian cruiser.

Andrew

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"Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in
Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If
Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by
now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001

Posted by Evolved (Member # 389) on :

Actually, I thought it was cool to see those two Galaxy-Class starships gang up on the Galor. It was...sweet. You see one in the distance approaching as you watch from the Galor's point of view. Suddenly, another Galaxy just strolls right by and fires on you. Before you know it, the other one that was coming hits you hard (judging from the explosions).

At least we saw some Nebula-class ships in the background in the latter half of the war battles. Question: Where are the Ambassadors?

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Ace

"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

They got converted to space stations...

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Terry: "Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, ...."
Max: "And?"
Terry: "I forgot."
Max: "Come on, Clinton was the fun one, then came the boring one."
Terry: "They're all boring."

- Batman Beyond (aka: Batman of the Future)

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well I'll tellya something Alex, I think he's right. Sadly... (The result I mean, not you Altair)

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I personally like ALL Galaxy styled ships, apart from the "Chupa Chups" Challenger class.

The Nebula is not particularly 'pretty', but she wasn't built far that. She (yes, she) is built for duty, and is probably a very succesful design. I mean, how many variations have we seen??? Big saucer, small saucer, triangular pod, smooth pod, extra nacelles, extra nacelles on a stick: that would be around 6!

The most impressing Galaxy scene that pops to mind is the one were a Galaxy comes bursting out from the bottom of the screen, and completely obliterating some Galor junk.

The Cheyenne is also quite good looking, I actually like those marker pens.

And the New Orleans is just one great ship. That's what they should have used instead of the old Excelsiors and Mirandas.

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To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen.
The Amtal Rule (Dune)
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I actually, don't think they did get converted to space stations... there is nothing similar between Jupiter Station's saucers and Ambassador Saucers... I'll have to scan the cover to the UK/Australia Voyager video that has Life Line on it... a nice clear upclose picture... it looks custom made.

Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :

AndrewR: Or you can check out my pics: http://members.nbci.com/pinasov/fleet/jupiter.jpg http://members.nbci.com/pinasov/fleet/jupiterclose.jpg

Don�t forget the usual copy-and-paste procedure :-)

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

you're right the jupiter station saucers are definitely different

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

That first pic... Pin... that "jupiter" one... is not from the episode... it appears to be a CGI fan made pic...

I'll have to go get my scanner...

Andrew

Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :

Oh, no, Andrew, both pics are from star trek fact files. I avoid posting fan-made pics. Not that many of those aren�t beautiful, but just because I try to make my site as close to "official" as possible.