Here is the new thread. We will use this now rather than the "Attention Treknophile" one. Please post all comments here. Also, we are trying to minimize group emails, so all nit picking and such can be done here. Any major announcements or important things, whatever those might be, can be done through the mailing list. Gracias, amigos.
David has come up with the following logo. I pointed out that the station is shown with TMP orientation, and should be inverted. What do you guys think?
http://thetrekker3.homestead.com/files/Lagrange_1_Station_Logo.gif
Shik, please mail me your email address, too.
Thanks,
Lance
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TheTrekker's Officer's Bible: A Concise Review of the Starfleet
http://thetrekker.homestead.com
The logo looks fine, except that there is too much lettering on it. I propose to reduce it to the name "Starfleet Design & Tactical", the location "Lunar Orbital Ship Yards,..." and the motto.
The motto... Hmm. I was never very fond of explicitly mentioning "war" as a purpose or only a possibility. It's just my personal impression that an official Starfleet facility shouldn't be labeled with "war".
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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
Anyway, the main concern with the logo for me is that there's TOO much detail. I was under the impression that logos were to be of the detail that could be embroidered, or printed - look at the emblems for various Starfleet doodads in the encyclopedia. It looks fantastic, but IMO it looks a little out of place compared to the others we know of.
As fot the "Orbital Office Complex", Bernd is correct that it looks odd. It's positioned corretly to act as such, but it's missing all the peripheral modules we see in TMP. I believe most people will mistake it for an upside-down Regula station, and treat it as such. If you altered it to look at it from a less familiar superior angle, it's less likely to be interpreted as a Regula.
Unless it's *supposed* to be a Regular, at which point most people will wonder why it's upside down.
Mark
Traffic on the Mailing list? I've gotten barely any in the past week. This forum is better anyway, but have I missed out on stuff?
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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
Perhaps it is consistant with the Team name: SD&T, but I think the emphasis on war is over the top. So, the motto needs more thought. And "Tactics, Ships, Weapon Systems" follows the war theme more heavily than I am comfortable with.
As the Team develops and gets a feel for its members, I pose the following thoughts:
Is the goal of this team to do just 24th century designs/writing's or will Admiral Schmidts previous interest in TOS movie themes pop up from time to time? I hope so. If so, then a logo blend of both time periods is appropriate.
I am also of the opinion that the logo is too cluttered. Looks great when its as large as the link page we're viewing; but, won't work if reduced for more practical purposes. Such as a title age, letterhead, envelope covers, etc. Being able to emboider it isn't a priority for me. But the logo should work well as an iron-on for the chest (large) or just the left breast (small) of a t-shirt?
I would eliminate one 'drydock' facility for the purposes of the logo being more clean. So I haven't a problem with the Office Complex. More office modules might bring the logo back to a cluttered state. But am unopposed to viewing it, if it can be done. As I've been working on a plan layout of that smaller station myself, there is plenty of room for the "team".
"Prototype Design and Evaluation" as well as "LaGrange 1, Sol 3-A, Sector 01" (should that read: Sector 001?) would look best on a web page, title page, or envelope, below the actual logo.
Please comment.
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Purrr...
[This message has been edited by Psi'a Meese (edited March 20, 2001).]
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Faster than light - no left or right.
Given the size and incredibly high albedo of Starfleet ships and stations, the complex would very likely be visible from Earth. L1 is (by definition) directly between Earth and the Moon, so this is going to mar the view of the Moon from Earth's surface.
Additionally, we know there are lunar colonies, and presumably there's a fair amount of Earth/Moon traffic. Also, I'd be surprised if there weren't transporter relays in place (with stationkeeping thrusters). Given all of that, do you really want to place a strategic R&D facility smack dab in the middle of this? It's sorta like planting Area 51 on the Brooklyn Bridge.
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Faster than light - no left or right.
[Shortest reply sofar ]
Couldnt the 2 dry docks be made smaller or maybe moved?
I think completely removing them would be wrong
[This message has been edited by D-S (edited March 20, 2001).]
In Valhalla, if I ever meet the caveman who carved the first wheel, I'm going to knock him silly. Meddler!
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Faster than light - no left or right.
It might be interesting to help.
Thanks
--Black Knight
Lance: email is the same as the AIM name. Just add "@aol.com" at the end.
OK, now here's MY take on all this: I'm moving in 2 weeks. I have a lot to do. I want to know EXACTLY what's going on, EXACTLY what our end goal is, EXACTLY who's handling what & reporting to whom. I want to be able to have a clearly-defined goal and a clearly-defined chain of command and departmental separation. Otherwise, I'm packing my bags now & getting the hell out of Dodge while I can. I only have so much energy to allot to projects these days, and if it's not being used wisely, I'd rather not have to allocate it. This isn't being pissy, this is simple command instinct. In fact, it's actually Faera coming front.
Again...we're bogging down on minutiae again. Logos, mottos, orientation of a fragging SPACE STATION? Who CARES. That's scut work. It's trivial shit. It's been, what? Three weeks now? And I STILL haven't the FAINTEST clue as to what the end project or my role in it is. I only know that it has something to do with David's Intrepid-class blueprints of which I saw a bit of on the site. Other than that.... :::raises arms & shrugs:::
End run of it is: let's get shit together or I'm walking. I don't think I'm irreplaceable, either...and I don't think one less person is going to hurt.
End tirade, begin logic: The motto is moronic. Let me write it...or rather, let G'Kar write it. He's been quite profound of late. Station? ("STATION!!") Who cares. Station location (ha): If you want it near a shipyard, I suggest Hesperia Planum or Chryse Planitia on Mars (if you want to be near a "real" shipyard) or Titan or Mimas, near the Saturn Fleet Yards (one of "my" yards orbiting Saturn). Even better would be NO centralized location, but a nice little "Helsinki--Tokyo--Brasilia--Tau Ceti IV--Damogran--Rigel II--Izar" kind of runner like publishing houses have.
David: I know you're fond of & attached to the name "Strategic Design & Tactical Group" name, but I gotta be honest. It don't flow. In fact, it's an oxymorn. How can something be both strategic AND tactical at the same time? Let's face it--when it comes down to things, this IS the military we're dealing with. Nice short names. Acronyms are fun. Something like "Emergent Technologies Section" might work better. Doesn't have to BE that...but you get the drift.
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"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
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"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
My comments:
I like these much better than the ones with the lots of text. The Latin motto is much more distinguished and less aggressive than the other one.
And it's definitely "Agnitio pro tutamine". "Pro" comes with the fifth case, the ablative (has nothing to do with hull armor ;-)).
BTW, the logo for the website could have millions of colors as well, since I would save it as a jpg anyway.
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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
For mottoes, how about: "Qui desiderat pacem preparate bellum?"
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
"Pace bello paratus"
Does anyone mind if I take a crack at it? I you want me to use the the ship graphics, please send them to me at [email protected]
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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Oftentimes elements within them are rendered VERY rather simply, such as with flat on with no perspective, or viewed isometrically or orthographically.
You might consider a head-on view of the elements. You might also consider something that works well in silhouettes.
The best logos can be read at a glance...that's really what they're for after all.
Neutron
I know a thing or two about this type of thing.
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In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
Okay, first I am going to respond to Shik:
I have no idea what your AIM screen name is. I am guessing Shik@aolcom?
Secondly, that post is completely out of line. We are trying to get "our shit" together. This is Dave's project, and if he wants to have a "trivial" or "moronic" logo, than that is what we'll do. I personally like desiging mottos... :-)
Secondly, "Strategic Design and Tactical" is taken directly from previous works Dave has produced. In keeping this title, we are being consistent with past publications. Again, this is Dave's project, he picked the title, and invited us to help him.
You are, of course, free to express your opinions. But please keep your "tirades" to a low roar. I am in this for the fun, not "work". So, walk if you will, we'll miss you. But, if you want to stay, we will continue to do things the way Dave wants to do them. Again, this is his group.
Now, on with the other points:
Dave, I don't know how to post an image directly in Flare either, that's why I am using my site.
Group, check out the two latest logos (grit your teeth Shik!):
Logo Variation 2- http://thetrekker3.homestead.com/files/Lagrange_2_Station_Logo.gif
Logo Variation 2A- http://thetrekker3.homestead.com/files/Lagrange_2a_Station_Logo.gif
Changes suggested the team have been implemented. Same logo twice: Lagrange 2 Station Logo for web (128 colors), Lagrange 2a Station Logo for stitching (16 colors).
-Lance
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TheTrekker's Officer's Bible: A Concise Review of the Starfleet
http://thetrekker.homestead.com
Lance
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TheTrekker's Officer's Bible: A Concise Review of the Starfleet
http://thetrekker.homestead.com
-Icon beneath his name.------------------
"Second star to the right, and then straight on till morning."
[This message has been edited by Fitz (edited March 21, 2001).]
You're right. It's not my project. I know this. I knew this. Silly me, I thought the point behind posting and asking for considerations was to actually consider it. Noted, logged, and archived for future reference.
Unlike you, Lance, I'm in this for the work. No matter how fun something is, it's still work, and is treated as such. I just want to know. Show me something substantive. It's been three weeks; what's been going on? The emails are jumbled and completely useless, there still no defined end goal....I'm sorry, but I think I deserve an explanation of the big picture before there's reallocation of energies. This is something due any member of any project.
Email me, IM me, send it by rat with a note attached to its tail. Don't care. Lance, in taking a position of "second," you've basically been deem to handle problmes. This is a problem. In my world, Dave's the candidate and you're the campaign manager. This is no way to run a campaign.
Fire me, ask me to resign, hammer things out, whatever. Resolution. Soon. I have to call about getting my electricity turned on.
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"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
If you consider this work, and want some kind of employee's handbook with procedures, rules, and guidelines, then I suggest we elect you to develop that. But, I am not in this for the "work". Work is something I get payed for. I am doing this on my own free time, for fun, to help Dave. THIS kind of bullshit posting is NOT what I am going to spend my free time doing. I, too, like the rest of you, have a real life, have a real job, a family, and don't want to sit around with my thumb up my butt. We will get things in order, things will progress. Bernd and Dave are working on a site and logo, another member is building 3D models for the finished product, Dave is finallizing graphics and interface design, and I'm trying to make heads-or-tails out of everyone's questions, comments, and complaints. I don't mind answering questions. But, this kind of antagonism is not welcome at all. If you have a complaint about something, state it nicely...and drop the asinine sarcasm.
Dave is the creator of this project. I am simply trying to organize things. Yes, the emails are out of control. I have repeatedly asked to minimize the email, and to post only in this thread. I also wanted a totally seperate Forum, where multiple threads could be used to respond to the various issues. I have done my best to allocate skills, but I still have no idea who half of the people are here or what they can do. Again, I have a life, I work 50 hours or so a week, I am newly married, and don't have time for this, to be quite honest.
Maybe I'm not cut out for this "XO" position afterall...I have no patience for this sort of exchange, it is absurd and a complete waste of my time.
So, tell me exactly what you want, Shik. Progress? Be patient, move your stuff, plug up your new house's electricity, and, when you come back in a week or two, maybe we will have decided on what our logo looks like. This kind of project will take time, it all depends on how much spare time each of us can squeeze out of our daily lives to work on this.
-Lance
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TheTrekker's Officer's Bible: A Concise Review of the Starfleet
http://thetrekker.homestead.com
1) The deck plans (mark 1 - mod 0) have been posted for all nit-pickers to review. That is the task which I hope everyone is spending there main time on. The "emblem/logo" is a recreational (or if you will: trivial) - "time away from the office" sort of thing. So you are right - there is work to be done - but it is available.
2) I am (hopefully) not the only creative person in the group. Although this group started as a nit-picker/proofreading group for me - it seems to be evolving into several creative persons with their own projects - which may also see commercial or at least public publication. So you are right here too.
3) Team: I think one of Shik's beefs (assuming he knew that the plans were posted) is that there hasn't been much in the way of results yet on the nitpicking. That is not a real problem for me yet (I just did some major corrections, which I will forward to Lance today). Like him, I hope that those persons who volunteered for n/p duty did so because they actually wanted to hunt over every square meter of deck & detail, not just because it would get them a sneak peek at a new Trek product. Like Shik, I have no time to deal with the latter - this team is for people who produce.
4) Shik, you are a producer. PLEASE don't quit before we have a chance to shakedown the team - I think you are an essential element. If we have to cull a few non-producing members in the next few months, we will.
5) Team: Don't forget, the logo is recreation - not the job at hand. That said, I'll still be posting another one (based on Shik's suggestions). Anyone else who has graphical talent is encouraged to do the same.
2of28
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Faster than light - no left or right.
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Faster than light - no left or right.
Sorry if I was to harsh, Shik.
Lance
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TheTrekker's Officer's Bible: A Concise Review of the Starfleet
http://thetrekker.homestead.com
Dave: thanks for the egostroke, even though it really wasn't necessary.
OK, so we're nitting the plans. Alright. That's a focus. In the past few weeks, so many variant concepts have come up including but not limited to:
You see where confusion leads to here.
Lance: you ARE doing a wonderful job. Don't get me wrong on that. Nothing of what I've said is personal; this is business. I understand your strains as well--I've been doing 60-hour weeks at work, and I'm not even a manager.
I spent 2 years working on a local political campaign; that's the mindset with which I've been approaching this project. It's hectic. It's stressed. It's a lot of late nights for a measly $300-600--total, for something like 8 months of work. But through all the bitching, infighting, personnel problems, blitzes, & whatnot, at the end of the campaign, you feel fantastic even if you didn't win.
And now a word for everyone. Most of you who've been around for a while have heard me talking in somewhat odd terms; the words "soulbonds," "triad," & "universal flow" have been used heavily. Over the past 9 months or so, my relationship with the universe has changed drastically, and there have been significant changes and effects from that relationship. One of the more major one is that I've realized that I've been soulbonding. a lot. So when you talk to me, you're also possibly going to be dealing with any one of about 14 different personalities. (maybe 15 now--I've been hearing Tyler Durden a LOT lately) Up there? That was Faera Thalev, an Andorian command officer. That alone should kind of make you as Trek fans go, "Ohhhhhh..."
What I'm getting at here is that there's a certain innate sense of "having the universe's ear" and that's coming through a lot more, especially in major projects like writing or webwork...or this. If it helps, I've actually got the soulbonds listed on my site, the Chrous Majora & Chorus Minora...if you want to be able to point to remarks and say, "Oh, that's Brynja" or "That sounds like Galen."
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"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
[This message has been edited by Shik (edited March 21, 2001).]
My name is Tony. I am new to the Forums and recently decided to stop lurking in the background. I'm interested in being part of this collaboration, if there is room for 1 more.
As far as what I can offer let's see. My background in in Engineering, but I'm very creative. I'm currently in art school. I have excellent visual thinking, drawing and illustration skills. I've spent a lot of my time designing fed. starships & thinking about starship design. It's one of my favorite hobbies,and I'm pretty passionate about it. (I've already had some interesting conversations with Bernd.)
In the real world, I have excellent organizational skills which may be of help. While I do know Autocad, I have not used any of the 2-D or 3-D drawing programs (yet). But I'm a fast learner.
So I would welcome working (& having fun) with all of you. One caveat: Just like someone else posted in this thread, I do have a full life managing work/life/partner/pick-something-to-put-here
just like the rest of you. But I'm willing to work on things consistently over time.
So let me know.
Regards,
tony
Re: motto;
could "Eternal vigilance is the price of peace" be suitble?
Another pos, would be something around (or from) "dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori" (irt is fit and honourable to die for one's country) - but unlilely.
"Man has become great through trouble?"
"We shall not go quietly into that night" you prolly know the full poem better than me....
What does the current motto translate to?
as for the logo design:
everybody else has said it, I might as well - "too cluttered." And too specific, the ship shown is a Prommie. IvMHO we either have to use an Intrepid (the specific task of the group) or an older ship (Daedalus, Connie or Excelsior)
For location, anyone considered Clyde Bank?
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"By Golly Jim, I'm begining to think I can cure a rainy day"
"You Can't Win untill you're not afraid to lose"
I do agree with Neutron regarding the general nature of a logo.
IMO, there are too many words on the logo. I suggest using "Strategic Design & Tactical" as is. Motto on bottom as is (by the way, how does that translate?). No words at all should overlap the station graphics.
Perhaps below the logo we could say: "A Division of Starfleet R & D". This would accompany the logo for final presentation, but not be part of it.
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Purrr...
David, you've got the brig on those blueprints, right?
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
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"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
Mark
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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
Or just the latter clause, but I like the idea of this following on to the Academy's motto...
Regarding the "clunkiness" of the name, I reconciled it as being two closely-working branches of one office. One cannot formulate an effective strategy without knowing the tactical capabilities of one's ships and crews. Likewise, one cannot execute effective tactics without knowing where one stands in the large scheme of things.
Only quesiton now is: is this a part of Starfleet (maybe the "Starfleet Tactical" referred to from time to time), or is it an office within the Federation government that works alongside, but is not answerable to, Starfleet?
As for the logo, six sides works, but rotate it so it has the same orientation as the department logos from the refit Enterprise (point at top, rather than side at top). For the field, try the tactical plot of the Phoenix vs. the Cardies from "The Wounded"...
--Jonah
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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
Other Team Members:
"Then replace it with whatever starship design winds up next on the hit list"
Brilliant. I'll give it some think.
______________________________________
"Strategic Design & Tactical"
"A Division of Starfleet R & D"
Also consider.
______________________________________
"David, you've got the brig on those blueprints, right? "
Yes - in the secondary hull - I'll post the exact location when I get time to look.
______________________________________
"Only quesiton now is: is this a part of Starfleet (maybe the "Starfleet Tactical" referred to from time to time), or is it an office within the Federation government that works alongside, but is not answerable to, Starfleet?"
I think of this as a think-tank to research & develop new ideas: ship designs, bridge layouts (somebody who will remain nameless should be happy...), weapons & defense system upgrades, tactics, etc. It is not Starfleet Tactical - all they do is try to figure out what needs to be done - not how to do it. Definitely Starfleet (albeit with civilian contractors/consultants alongside).
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Faster than light - no left or right.
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Faster than light - no left or right.
Could someone possibly take it upon themselves to "cut it up" into 15 separate deck images for easier examination? I want to examine the stats & the "room codes" as well, but those are difficult to read too.
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"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
Actually, as I told Lance, I am re-posting the deck plans - as Mark 1 - Mod 2 - sometime today or tomoirrow. It will have all the changes and suggestions (which I agree to) to date. In addition, I may have specific questions to the group about various portions of the plans - possibly coloring these areas differently.
At this time, I think I will forgo backgrounds entirely, and will either make them deck by deck, or fewer decks per sheet.
As per resolution, I am torn between high-rez (easier to see detail but far easier to post), and low-rez (impractical to print or pirate). I'm sure you see the quandry. As is, if we go any higher in rez, distribution becomes rather difficult - but I'll see what I can do.
By the way folks, the main changes so far are:
- quarters no longer have crawlspaces between rows
- all labs now reflect the superb screenshot found by Mark
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Faster than light - no left or right.
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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
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Faster than light - no left or right.
After careful considerating, I have elected to bow out of the group as the XO. I simply do not have the time to read through all the emails, organize things, and construct posts/emails/web pages on a daily basis. Today I had over fifty emails to read, and two pages in the forum. I literally work ten hours a day at my store (I manage a drug store), and, when I get home, my wife and I like to sit and relax together. This project is going to take dedication and concentration, the likes of which I am unwilling to contribute.
I would love to stay on as a nitpicker. Dave, I would love to help you in any way I can. I can say, without sounding to much like a ham, that I quite near worship your work. As a Trekker, my entire teenage and adult life has been devoted to collecting quality starship resource books, reading Star Trek books and materials, and watching the show on a near religious basis. Star Trek is, and always has been, my only hobby. I'm a geek to the core. Not the sort that puts on Spock ears and goes to conventions...I have to much class for that, but, I am the type that, sitting here in my den, have blueprints, manuals, magazines, photocopies, scans, and a hard-disk full of Federation Starship images!
However, in recent years, especially since I met Amy, I haven't the time nor the desire to sift through any more serious projects. My web site is only updated monthly, and, I have no future projects outlined for it, either.
I would sincerely love to step down and let someone with more time and a greater desire to contribute take over my position.
I would like Shik or Bernd to fill my place. Bernd can easily construct fancy, impressive web pages over night. Shik has the desire and motivation to get things done.
Please consider this my resignation, and I urge you not to beg me to reconsider. I will, of course, visit the forum and read over the emails daily, but my contribution would be better suited testing the future CD-ROM, web sites, and proof reading the blueprints.
Thanks so much for putting so much faith in my abilities.
Sincerely,
Lance
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TheTrekker's Officer's Bible: A Concise Review of the Starfleet
http://thetrekker.homestead.com
Dave: I have also heard about the bidge module being srlf propelld I think it could have been mentione din the fact files, Ill find out.
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"By Golly Jim, I'm begining to think I can cure a rainy day"
"You Can't Win untill you're not afraid to lose"
No reactions to my suggestion for the main field of the logo? The tactical plot from the Enterprise's viewscreen in "The Wounded"? Just as the Cardassian warship is destroyed... A good demonstration of both well-designed ship and effective tactice in a single frame...
--Jonah
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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
Mark
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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
I had a friend in the Navy who was involved in grey ops out of the old Subic Bay base in the Philippines. The unit had decided that they, too, deserved a patch, but because of the fairly secret nature of their work, they couldn't really show any imagery.
The final result was a circular patch that was pure black; around the edges in red lettering was the phrase "Si ego certiorum, tu mihi delendum eris"--loosely translated, "If I told you, I'd have to kill you."
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"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
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"Let's make sure history never forgets the name... Enterprise"
- Alternate Picard, "Yesterday's Enterprise"
Mark
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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
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"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
There's always T. S. Eliot: "They all go into the dark, into the vacant interstellar spaces..."
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"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
Re: Re-structuring - methinks that there'll be a problem restructuring, with so many people. We're gonna have to break this up into smaller groups and get people to coordinate from there. I don't have time to do so, which make me saound a bit hypocritical, and I apologize for that. It doesn't mean that the projects will suddenly die, but will likely be slowed up some.
Mark
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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
Bernd:
Can you send me a copy of that Intrepid-class photo.
Peregrinus:
Nice motto - which we'll probably put to a vote anyways. Do you have a screenshot of the tactcal plot you are referring to?
Shik:
I know man, but we're dealing with a "kinder, gentler Federation..."
Ultra Magnus:
Any submissions are welcome, but I'm hoping this will be a recreational item for the team (in between nit-picking sessions).
Mark:
I agree. I believe Shik and Bernd are working out the details on this (feel free to ask me my opinion - if it matters - guys).
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Faster than light - no left or right.
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Faster than light - no left or right.
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Faster than light - no left or right.
Many websites have scanned in items from the Fact Files - http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ has a bunch of the bridges from the fact files.
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"Let's make sure history never forgets the name... Enterprise"
- Alternate Picard, "Yesterday's Enterprise"
The logo is coming along pretty well. I like some of Bernd's suggestions and I must put my vote in for the slightly less authoritarian/hail-the-conquering-hero logo mindset. Just my two cents.
I have been looking over the plans a little more and though my official job is making 3D those tech-objects which David sets forth, I have a few little nitpicks to offer up. If anyone had already touched upon any these issues I apologize and feel free to move along.
Correct me if I am wrong (very easy for me). It does not appear that the chief security officer has an office as Tuvok does in the show (at least I haven't found it labeled as such yet). This office is little more than a redress of Chakotay's office (which as the XO's office, is represented in the plans) and thus would probably be on the same deck. I know it has not been decided which ship and when in relation to "Voyager canon" this project falls but this seems a little odd. Plus, some detail for you; I recently watched a Voy rerun: It showed the slow (non-warp) star movement outside Chakotay's office viewport. It indicates Chakotay's office is on the port side of the ship rather than starboard as the plans show for the XO's office.
Also in relation to those offices. The sets have entrance doors that are roughly perpendicular to the viewport and opposite the officer's desk. Maybe you could reflect this in the deck plans with a minor edit. The plans currently show the office to open up onto the corridor, doorway opposite the outer hull, but the set's actual configuration could be correctly reflected maybe by adding only a small room between the corridor and the office itself. The office set does seem a little more cramped than they are in these plans.
The Captains quarters. Don't know if it is even important, but the set for Janeway's quarters has the exact opposite layout to the layout offered in the deck plans. Maybe no big deal.
The pilot episode showed that the crew's mess on deck two (voyager's version of Ten-forward) had replicators facing the fore of the ship, opposite the forward viewports. There was no apparent access to any room beyond it until it was decided that cooking food would be a necessity. The captain actually had her own little private dining room which Neelix usurped to create his leola root cuisine kitchen. The layout in the deck plans show access to this area from the lounge area only, but the Captain entered it from the outer corridor in the episode "Phage". (she also referred to it as "cabin 125 alpha, deck 2" and "the captain's private dining room" as labeled in the ship's directory) Neelix walked in on the captain exploring for coffee by that same doorway in the very next episode "The Cloud". Also on this deck throughout the first season, there was a row of exterior viewports along part of this deck's corridor, with a turbo lift at the aftward end. The only place this setup would work is where you have VIP quarters located (though I always thought this was a poor allocation of exterior viewports). Maybe this is why they are ignored in the present layout you have. If so please ignore this minor point.
This is lengthier than I had planned so I will shut up for a while and breathe.
I will try to have some 3D updates later this weekend if all goes well.
------------------
Basil's Homeworld Dinosaurs,Elephants,Whales,Sea Vessels, Zeppelins,Starships... I just love big things that move
Don't Sisko and Jake look through one at the very start of "Emmissary, DS9"
------------------
"By Golly Jim, I'm begining to think I can cure a rainy day"
"You Can't Win untill you're not afraid to lose"
DECK 01
1 MAIN BRIDGE
1 CAPTAIN�S READY ROOM
1 MAIN CONFERENCE ROOM
1 DAMAGE CONTROL
1 BATTERY ROOM
2 LIFEPOD
DECK 02
1 CAPTAIN�S DINING ROOM (REFUGE 1)
3 UNASSIGNED COMPARTMENTS - FUTURE EXPANSION (FEX)
1 DAMAGE CONTROL
4 OFFICES (EXEC, COUNSELLOR, QUARTERMASTER)
2 VIP QUARTERS
1 AFT NAVIGATION SENSOR SUITE
1 AFT SPACEDOCK ACCESSWAY
1 BATTERY ROOM
4 LIFEPOD
DECK 03
1 CAPTAIN�S QUARTERS
4 UNASSIGNED COMPARTMENTS (FEX)
6 SENIOR OFFICER�S QUARTERS
1 DAMAGE CONTROL
1 MAIN COMPUTER BAY - UPPER
2 TORPEDO LAUNCHER BAY - UPPER
2 BATTERY ROOM
DECK 04
18 OFFICER�S QUARTERS
6 ENLISTED QUARTERS
2 UNASSIGNED COMPARTMENTS (FEX)
1 FORWARD NAVIGATION SENSOR SUITE - UPPER
2 DAMAGE CONTROL - DECK 3
2 AEROPONICS / HYDROPONICS BAY
1 MAIN COMPUTER BAY -MID
2 TORPEDO LAUNCHER BAY - MAIN
2 PERSONNEL TRANSPORTER ROOMS
2 FIELD GENERATOR COMPLEX (DEFLECTOR SCREEN / STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY / INERTIAL DAMPING)
4 BATTERY ROOM
DECK 05
16 OFFICER�S QUARTERS
16 ENLISTED QUARTERS
4 UNASSIGNED COMPARTMENTS (FEX)
2 HOLODECK (1 & 2) - UPPER
1 FORWARD NAVIGATION SENSOR SUITE - LOWER
2 DAMAGE CONTROL
4 CARGO BAY
2 AUXILLIARY FUSION REACTOR /
TRANSPORTER BUFFER BAY
2 ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING BAY
1 MAIN COMPUTER BAY -LOWER
1 BIOSCIENCES LAB
1 DOCTOR�S OFFICE
1 SICKBAY
1 MORGUE
2 TORPEDO & PROBE MAGAZINE
2 TORPEDO WARHEAD LOCKER
DECK 06
1 PRIMARY HULL DEFLECTOR
22 OFFICER�S QUARTERS
60 ENLISTED QUARTERS
2 HOLODECK (1 & 2) - LOWER
4 DAMAGE CONTROL
2 CARGO HOLD
1 GYMNASIUM COMPLEX - EXERCISE EQUIPMENT
1 GYMNASIUM COMPLEX - JACUZZI /SPA
2 GYMNASIUM COMPLEX - SPORT COURT
1 GYMNASIUM COMPLEX - SPECTATOR GALLERY
9 UNASSIGNED COMPARTMENTS - (FEX)
6 LIFEPOD
DECK 07
2 SENIOR OFFICER�S QUARTERS
22 OFFICER�S QUARTERS
52 ENLISTED QUARTERS
2 SCIENCE LAB
4 CARGO BAY - UPPER
4 MANEUVERING THRUSTER & FUELING SYSTEM - UPPER
1 DEUTERIUM TANKAGE - UPPER
2 CRYONIC COOLING SYSTEM - (DEUTERIUM TANKAGE)
2 THRUSTERS & SUPPORT SYSTEMS BAY
2 BATTERY COMPARTMENT
12 LIFEPOD
DECK 08
3 AIRLOCK & DOCKING PORT
3 AIRLOCK SYSTEMS & GAS STORAGE
6 FIELD GENERATOR COMPLEX (DEFLECTOR SCREEN / STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY / INERTIAL DAMPING)
4 MANEUVERING THRUSTER & FUELING SYSTEM - LOWER
2 CARGO HOLD
4 CARGO BAY - LOWER
2 WATER TANKAGE
2 SUBSPACE ANTENNA COMPARTMENT
2 ANTIGRAV LANDING GENERATOR (ALG) BAY
1 EMERGENCY BRIDGE
2 REPLICATOR HEAD SYSTEMS (INORGANIC) BAY
2 DAMAGE CONTROL LOCKER
1 DEUTERIUM TANKAGE - LOWER
1 ENGINEERING - MAIN (DEUTERIUM INJECTOR)
16 BATTERY COMPARTMENT
DECK 09
1 FORWARD LOWER OBSERVATION LOUNGE
2 TRANSPORTER BUFFER BAY
1 CAPTAIN�S GIG PARKING BAY
2 GENERAL ENGINEERING COMPARTMENTS
2 GIG FUELING TANKAGE
2 CARGO EXTERNAL HATCH ACCESS BAY
2 CARGO CONVEYOR HATCH ACCESS BAY
2 TORPEDO LAUNCHER BAY - UPPER
2 BATTERY COMPARTMENT
6 UNASSIGNED COMPARTMENTS - FUTURE EXPANSION (FEX)
1 ENGINEERING WORKSHOP - TURBOLIFT MAINTENANCE
2 ENGINEERING WORKSHOP - DIAGNOSTICS
2 ENGINEERING WORKSHOP - MAINTENANCE
1 SECURITY - STAGING & LOCKERS
1 SECURITY - BRIG
1 ENGINEERING - MAIN (AUXILLIARY SYSTEMS & POWER)
3 HANGAR BAY - UPPER
1 LANDING BAY - UPPER
DECK 10
1 REPLICATOR HEAD SYSTEMS (ORGANIC)
2 TORPEDO LAUNCHER BAY - MIAIN
2 ENGINEERING - SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT
2 ENGINEERING - LIQUID WASTE MANAGEMENT
3 FIELD GENERATOR COMPLEX (DEFLECTOR SCREEN / STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY / INERTIAL DAMPING)
2 ENLISTED LOUNGE (REFUGE 2 & 3 )
1 SPARE WARP CORE - UPPER
1 SECONDARY COMPUTER BAY -UPPER
1 ENGINEERING - MAIN (PROPULSION) - UPPER
3 HANGAR BAY - LOWER
1 LANDING BAY - LOWER
1 AFT AIRLOCK / AIRLOCK SYSTEMS & GAS STORAGE
1 HANGAR DOOR FORCE-FIELD GENERATOR (HDFFG)
1 FLIGHT CONTROL
DECK 11
2 SENSOR BAY
1 MAIN DEFLECTOR GENERATOR - UPPER
2 GENERAL ENGINEERING COMPARTMENT
2 TORPEDO & PROBE MAGAZINE
2 TORPEDO WARHEAD LOCKER
1 SPARE WARP CORE - MID
1 SECONDARY COMPUTER BAY -MID
1 CARGO BAY - UPPER
2 ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING BAY
1 UNASSIGNED COMPARTMENTS - (FEX)
1 ENGINEERING - MAIN (PROPULSION) - LOWER
1 LARGE ASSEMBLY FABRICATION & REPLICATION
1 SHUTTLE DIAGNOSTICS STORAGE BAY
1 HANGAR BAY
1 HANGAR MAINTENANCE BAY
2 SHUTTLE FUEL TANKAGE
1 SHUTTLE PILOT LOCKER ROOM
1 SHUTTLE SPARE PARTS BAY
1 AFT OBSERVATION LOUNGE (SHUTTLE PILOT READY ROOM)
STARBOARD NACELLE & SUPPORT
1 BUSSARD IONIZING BEAM EMITTER BAY
1 BUSSARD MAGNETIC FIELD GENERATOR/COLLECTOR BAY
1 CONTINUOUS CYCLE FRACTIONATOR & DEUTERIUM CHILLER BAY
1 WARP COIL & PLASMA INJECTOR BAY
1 FIELD GENERATOR COMPLEX (DEFLECTOR SCREEN / STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY / INERTIAL DAMPING)
1 NACELLE SUPPORT SWIVEL MOTOR BAY
1 DEUTERIUM TANKAGE
1 FUSION GENERATOR & IMPULSE EXHAUST NOZZLE BAY
1 BATTERY COMPARTMENT
1 BUSSARD IONIZING BEAM EMITTER BAY
PORT NACELLE & SUPPORT
1 BUSSARD IONIZING BEAM EMITTER BAY
1 BUSSARD MAGNETIC FIELD GENERATOR/COLLECTOR BAY
1 CONTINUOUS CYCLE FRACTIONATOR & DEUTERIUM CHILLER BAY
1 WARP COIL & PLASMA INJECTOR BAY
1 FIELD GENERATOR COMPLEX (DEFLECTOR SCREEN / STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY / INERTIAL DAMPING)
1 NACELLE SUPPORT SWIVEL MOTOR BAY
1 DEUTERIUM TANKAGE
1 FUSION GENERATOR & IMPULSE EXHAUST NOZZLE BAY
1 BATTERY COMPARTMENT
1 BUSSARD IONIZING BEAM EMITTER BAY
DECK 12
1 MAIN DEFLECTOR GENERATOR - MAIN
2 SENSOR BAY
1 SPARE WARP CORE - MID
2 AEROPONICS / HYDROPONICS BAY
1 SECONDARY COMPUTER BAY -LOWER
1 CARGO BAY - LOWER
2 PERSONNEL TRANSPORTER ROOMS
2 CARGO HOLD
1 ENGINEERING - MAIN (ENVIRONMENT)
DECK 13
2 SENSOR BAY
1 BATTERY COMPARTMENT
6 OFFICER�S QUARTERS
2 TRANSPORTER BUFFER BAY
1 SPARE WARP CORE - MID
8 SCIENCE LABS
1 ENGINEERING - MAIN (ANTIMATTER INJECTOR)
4 LIFEPOD
DECK 14
1 SENSOR BAY
2 DAMAGE CONTROL
1 SPARE WARP CORE - MID
1 ANTIMATTER GENERATOR BAY - UPPER
1 ANTI-DEUTERIUM POD STORAGE BAY - UPPER
1 ENGINEERING - MAIN (ANTI-DEUTERIUM INJECTOR COMPLEX)
1 WARP CORE JETTISON HATCH
10 LIFEPOD
DECK 15
2 PLASMA RELAY CONTROL
1 SPARE WARP CORE - LOWER
1 ANTIMATTER GENERATOR BAY - LOWER
1 ANTI-DEUTERIUM LOADING PORT
1 AUXILLIARY WARP CORE BAY ACCESS HATCH
1 ANTI-DEUTERIUM POD STORAGE BAY - LOWER
------------------
"By Golly Jim, I'm begining to think I can cure a rainy day"
"You Can't Win untill you're not afraid to lose"
------------------
When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
------------------
Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.
------------------
"By Golly Jim, I'm begining to think I can cure a rainy day"
"You Can't Win untill you're not afraid to lose"
Nitpick: There is an enlisted mess, and there is or was once a captain's dining room. Is there no officer's mess?
Nitpick We Can't Do Anything About: The distribution of lifepods is not consistent with the distribution of the ship's population. Deck 6 has 22 officers quarters, 60 enlisted quarters... and 8 lifepods. Nothing we can do, since the lifepod placement is pretty much fixed by the appearance of every external shot of Voyager.
Further To Above: Okay, time to go, clear the bridge! Harry, Tuvok, into the first escape pod. Tom, Ensign Yellowjacket, into the second pod. Janeway, there's a travel pod in the shuttlebay, main power is down and the turbolifts don't work so use the J-tubes, all the emergency doors are closed so take a crowbar. Four minutes 'till the core breach, good luck!
------------------
Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.
------------------
Never give up. Never surrender.
The Bridge, then, has enough lifepod seats for everybody. (that's good to know... I have a roleplaying game character on a particularly adventurous Intrepid, and he's often on the bridge) The habitat sections still don't. Deck 6 still has 82 quarters and 32 (max 48) spaces in lifepods. Again, though, nothing we can do about it I guess.
I can still whine about it. 
The nacelles are rated for warp 9.972, so their rating in Cochranes will be equal to the speed of Warp 9.972 in multiples of C. (see TNG tech manual p.55) It looks like Dave couldn't fill this in for the Intrepid's nacelles, so the first page just says that they're "xxx-cochrane rated". Does anybody know the formula for finding the speed in c for a given warp factor?
------------------
Purrr...
------------------
"This computer is for library research and Internet searching only."
I like the suggestion. It doesn't have to be a starship.
------------------
"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
"Strategic Design and Tactical Group"
OK, Strategic and Tactical - are basically the same word.
and the way its worded... do you dabble in Strategic Designs while being a Tactical Group as a day job!?!
Put Strat and Tact together... infact eliminate one of the words, because it becomes redundant...
Andrew
------------------
Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
------------------
When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
------------------
Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us.
Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving.
Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
So, sinking the Bismarck would be a tactical level event, while D-Day would be very much a strategic thing. It's quite different.
Mark
------------------
"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
Let's assume this present atavar of David Schmidt is a decendant. Not too far a stretch, since my own son is David Jr.
Strategy & Tactics - I concur Mark.
I'm not sure I like the latest logo. I am more a fan of late 24th century design - high-tech. I don't feel a logo has to be 'flattened' so as to match the few colors used in the Starfleet Academy logo. Although I see the point about using contemporary starships - someone did point out that we could swap the starships to match our ongoing projects.
The Captain's Dining Room is the Ward Room (Officer's Dining Room). And there will be access from the corridor. My mistake.
------------------
Faster than light - no left or right.
Shik: As for the motto, this group is here to design ships and formulate tactics to maximize survivability in any imaginable situation. I think "ready for anything" states quite effectively what we hope to accomplish, never mind how 'realistic' it might be to try to plan for every eventuality.
Question: Is there one torpedo magazine servicing both launchers -- seeing as how they are fairly close to each other in the overall layout -- or is there a separate magazine for each fore and aft?
Does anyone have the issue of Star Trek: The Magazine (or the Fact Files) that cover Voyager's deck one?
--Jonah
------------------
"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
I would like a veto though...
------------------
Faster than light - no left or right.
------------------
"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
The warp core has a pipe to bring in lots of deuterium from the primary tanks. This is good.
The secondary core has no such pipe. This is bad. The antimatter you inject from the bottom will not let itself go hungry.
Please, Dave... for just a hairline of pixels you can feed trillions of starving antideuterium atoms in the secondary reactor. Don't force these poor atoms to forage for duranium hull plating. Help us give them the nutritious deuterium they so desperately need.
(also... I don't think "spare warp core" is a correct name. It is a deck shorter than the main core, so it cannot be used to replace it. It has no plasma conduits to the nacelles, so it cannot propel the ship to warp. Might "Secondary M/A Reactor" be better?)
--Re'k
So to reiterate, both cores are the same height. The spare has no fuel feeds, for matter or antimatter. And it is a SPARE core. It is not active. It is meant as a replacement should the original core be lost or destroyed or otherwise rendered unusable.
[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited March 31, 2001).]
Ejecting the existing core at the enemy would be equally useless. The amount of energy released by the resulting explosion would blow up Voyager as well. (Especially since you'd have no warp drive to escape with.)
In short, it would take a lot of effort to do something that could be accomplished just as easily with a large batch of photorps. Maybe for a long range effort or premeditated attack or something, but it wouldn't work in a quick battle.
[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited March 31, 2001).]
------------------
Never give up. Never surrender.
------------------
Jerry: "What street are you on?"
Kramer: "I'm at 1st and 1st. How can a street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of a parallel universe!"
-Seinfeld
------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
It's me, your ol' buddy Lance! hee hee...
Just thought I'd pop in and say a few things in defense of our group title, Strategic Design and Tactical Group.
As you all know, I was a tank driver for the United State's Army a few years back. I remember learning all about "strategy" and "tactics". They are two different things:
Strategy is WHAT you want to do. Strategy is the mission parameters and goals.
Tactics is HOW you go about doing it. Tactics is the method of attack, time, place, units to be used, and so forth.
So, strategy is the broad picture, and tactics is the zoomed in methodology.
Think of it this way: Admirality = Strategy, Tactics = ship Captains.
:-)
Lance
------------------
TheTrekker's Officer's Bible: A Concise Review of the Starfleet
http://thetrekker.homestead.com
------------------
Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.
--Jonah
------------------
"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
[This message has been edited by Peregrinus (edited April 02, 2001).]
As for what constitutes the plasma, maybe it's literally electroplasma. The deuterium is whole atoms by its definition. Meanwhile, the only way to magnetically contain antideuterium is to strip it of its positron, thus giving it a net charge. That makes it actually antideuterons. Without positrons, there's nothing to annihilate electrons. The remaining electrons might form electroplasma in the dilithium.
[This message has been edited by Tech Sergeant Chen (edited April 02, 2001).]
I no longer have "Coming of Age" on tape, due to an error on my part, so I can't quote the exchange between Mordock and Wes regarding intermix ratios...
--Jonah
------------------
"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
In any case, it seems likely that what Wesley said was an oversimplification. These were supposed to be the best and brightest kids in the universe, so Starfleet probably wouldn't ask them trivially easy questions.
Most likely, the question was very complex and went something like "Given conditions X and Y, what should the intermix ratio of a warp engine be in situation Z at speed A in temperature B when the engineer has eaten breakfast C?". Wesley would then realize that only the parameters X, Z, B and C were crucial to the answer, and parameters Y and A did not matter at all. THAT was the "trick question" part which Mordock failed to catch.
However, if parameters X, Z, B and C were altered, then the answer would no longer be 1:1. Say, parameter Z could have been "The ship is cruising in interstellar space of subspace density 3.443 nc", and parameter B could have read "six million degrees" so even a moron would have noticed that the question did not apply to acceleration phase, but only to a high speed cruise phase where all the necessary warp plasma has already been generated and no matter excess production is required...
Timo Saloniemi
"Calculate the intermix ratio for a Galaxy class starship with both its matter and antimatter tanks 9/10 empty, so that it can reach a target 100 ly away at warp 8"
To this, everybody except Mirren answers "1:1". Wesley then comments "Once I realized it was a trick question, it was easy", and Mordock says "There can be only one intermix ratio". The two do not extrapolate on their answers beyond that.
Now, how to interpret this as not contradicting the TNG TM? Well, I'd still say there are hidden assumptions here. The trick part need not be that there can be only one intermix ratio in the universe in all conditions. Instead, the trick part could be that in all cases where fuel has to be conserved, one has to use the 1:1 ratio. Or then that a journey of 100 ly at warp 8 implies long-term cruise mode, in which one always uses the 1:1 ratio, not the other ratios which are reserved for accelerations and decelerations, start-ups and powering-downs.
In other situations (like, say, a situation involving accelerations and decelerations, or calling for maximum performance instead of maximum fuel efficiency), one would have to carefully calculate the ratio using the sort of logic seen in TNG TM. But part of the question revealed that this was not one of those situations. Mirren would probably have known how to calculate the ratio (and would eventually have gotten the correct answer, or an approximation like 0.99999987954:1), but the calculations simply took her too long. The question was formulated in a way that required intuition, or the remembering of a rule-of-thumb, instead of the mechanistical following of a formulaic solution.
Mordock's somewhat weird way of putting it (stating out flatly that "there can be only one ratio") could be attributed to his less than perfect command of English. We could also remember the tendency of his race to only present 100% ready solutions, never half-baked ones - thus, he would always state his answers in completely absolute terms, and never allow an "assuming that...", "in this case" or "unless..." to slip in.
If there literally was only a single possible intermix ratio, then it seems unlikely the otherwise apparently supersmart Mirren would have missed the answer. Of course, it COULD be that this was a typical "boy" question: girls don't know anything about starships in the 24th century, just like they are completely ignorant of cars in the 21st, which is why Mirren had no idea of intermix ratios despite her implied brilliance in other fields. (Vulcan girls don't count as girls, for several obvious reasons...)
Timo Saloniemi
------------------
Never give up. Never surrender.
[This message has been edited by Tech Sergeant Chen (edited April 05, 2001).]
--Jonah
------------------
"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
------------------
Never give up. Never surrender.
"It was a trick-question. There is only one ratio of matter to anti-matter. 1:1."
------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
Any update on the progress of the Intrepid Deck Plans, or those of the Excelsior you mentioned you were working on ?
Last time I dropped in here, there seemed to be a discussion going on about the shape of a logo among the members of the group, so I wondered how you were getting on .
Long Tom
I, for one, will be able to take a more active role as administrative leader in about a week & a half. Still hammering out shit here at the new place, waiting for my new ATM card so I can switch servers, buy more furniture, etc.
------------------
"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
------------------
"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
------------------
"For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
We've moved over to a dedicated BBS on Juno(check elsewhere on this BBS for the URL - or contact Bernd.
Shik: I am actually making lots of progress - in your hiatus, I decided to COMPLETELY revamp the deck-plans (Mark 2 - Mod 1), since I acquired good high-rez images of the exterior of the Intrepid-class - and found to my chagrin that I was off by quite a lot. They are about 65% done at this time - and I hope to have them ready for re-proof by the time you are ready.
Starbuck:
I thought you already were on the team. Check in after Shik is back - at that time, we will be separating the wheat from the chaff - those who have made helpful suggestions versus those with not enough time or enthusiasm. If you have nit-picking talent/other talents, we will use you.
See you guys on Juno.
------------------
Faster than light - no left or right.
Dave's calling it "Mark II". I'm so bewildered I have this much influence on Trek technology. But I'm flattered, Dave. Thank you very much. I'm sure whoever Mod is is glad too.
Mark <-- Hey! 100th post again!
------------------
"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
Mark
------------------
"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
------------------
"I can be creative when I have a good idea. That just happens way too rarely."
-Omega, April 6
------------------
"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
Re'K:
Tell me about it. Transit #*@*!!!. Ah, that feels better... My car broke down during the strike, and my wife and myself had to freak'n walk or bike to work. Now that we've got wheels again, you can tell the union that its safe to sign...
Starbuck/Ritten:
Don't worry about it guys. Normally we would wait until we have vacancies, but I think we can see our way through to letting you in (enthusiasm counts). However, you'll have to wait until my Exec (Shik) is back online. Unless Bernd can download the copies to you. On the other hand, you might just as well wait until the Mark 2 - Mod 1 is ready - should be a week or so now. They'll be FAR superior to the Mark 1.
------------------
Faster than light - no left or right.
------------------
"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
------------------
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
Long Tom
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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
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Faster than light - no left or right.
[email protected] if you've got any use for me
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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
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Faster than light - no left or right.
quote:
Starbuck/Ritten:
Don't worry about it guys. Normally we would wait until we have vacancies, but I think we can see our way through to letting you in (enthusiasm counts). However, you'll have to wait until my Exec (Shik) is back online. Unless Bernd can download the copies to you. On the other hand, you might just as well wait until the Mark 2 - Mod 1 is ready - should be a week or so now. They'll be FAR superior to the Mark 1.
I gather Mk2-Mod1 is up... so I'm ready if you need me
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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
Bernd will be distributing shortly. Remember - go to Juno for team comm.
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Faster than light - no left or right.
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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
[gestures at the screen]
And here:
[gestures at the heart]
Mark
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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
(I hope I got that right)
Check in ASAP - we will be emailing the M2M1 to team members who do so. Inorder to check in, I need the following:
First & Last Name
(nickname)
e-mail address
Looking forward to seeing you there. I think you'll like this new set - and hopefully we can improve it even more.
- Dave
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Faster than light - no left or right.