Mark, Chris... Anyone out there with better spatial estimation skills than yours truly.
I would like help nailing down size, shape, and peripherals of the original Enterprise engineering set. Franz Joseph's plans and Technical Manual are a good starting point, as is the Star Trek Sketchbook. But other things that aren't included in the former works or are unclear in the latter require assistance...
Suggested episodes to view include "Day of the Dove", "Elaan of Troyius", "That Which Survives", and "The Ultimate Computer".
Specifically, I'd like estimates on how far out the outboard entry corridor the Jeffries' tube is, how high off the deck it is, and the diameter of the tube... Guesses as to where the vestibule on the second level gantry (aft) leads... Guesses as to where the M/AM service crawlspace is located... What's out the inboard entrance seen most prominently in "Elaan of Troyius"... Whether there's any sort of bulkhead under Scotty's second-level office, or if it runs straight fore to aft like a skyway...
Have at.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
[This message has been edited by Peregrinus (edited March 23, 2001).]
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
There is also the drawing in the Star Trek Fact Files. If, however, the scale is as wrong as on the TOS bridge, this wouldn't be of much help. The engineering dimensions looks realistic, though.
------------------ "Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities." Ex Astris Scientia
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Alas, TOS isn't my real specialty era, or sizes of stuff for that matter... But my guess is that the upper deck leads to various subsystem monitoring rooms, since there seems to be little of that on thea main deck. It's beyond me why they'd have it all the way up there, though - it means that there'd have to be something big in the way under the upper deck - plasma conduits, fuel tubes, etc.
I thought the J-tube was like two feet off the ground.. But the Sketchbook should be able to answer that one.
Mark
------------------ "Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
Posted by Zor Prime on :
Hey, I've got TOS set blueprints. They were sold years ago, and I can scan the engineering areas for you. Email me at [email protected]
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Are they actual set blueprints? Or the Franz Joseph U.S.S. Constitution deckplans?
And you know, if it weren't for that clear shot out the engineering entrance in "Day of the Dove" (a problematic episode for many Treknical reasons), I'd have to put the Jeffries tube access somewhere else -- like maybe out that second level exit. As is, there isn't enough room for engineering and the reactors to fit in front of the shuttlebay and still have the Jeffries tube line up with the nacelle pylons if they are where the set places them...
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
Posted by Zor Prime on :
They're actual set blueprints. Basically everything in Stage 9 - bridge, sickbay, engineering, corridor, transporter room, rec room, all arranged how they were in the building. The one I have that has engineering says it was for Journey to Babel. It's a huge blueprint, so I'd have to scan it in about 6 or 8 parts and piece together in Photoshop. Of course, the layout is how the real sets were, so the locations of the locations aren't how they would be on the "real" ship, if you know what I mean.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I do know exactly what you mean, don't worry. Gods, this is wonderful, Zor. Consider me begging in a dignified manner.
--Jonah
P.S. Do you really have purple hair?
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
Posted by Zor Prime on :
No purple hair, sorry. The Regis scared it white. So, I don't think that the blueprint has the detail you are looking for, jeffries tubes and such, but I can send it to you, and if you want the rest I can scan the rest of the sheet too. Your info doesn't have an email. Mail me at [email protected] so I can reply. Or can I post it on here some way?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I don't know if this helps, but if you look in 'the Star Trek sketch book'?? there is that table mock-up of all the sets that were continually used on the Enterprise...
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Does anyone have a stage layout for TNG, by chance?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nope - but there's one for the DS9 sets in the Making of DS9 book...
Mark
PS - Edit: This is the 10,200th post in the Tech forum. Yikes!
------------------ "Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
[This message has been edited by Mark Nguyen (edited March 25, 2001).]
Posted by BRUTUS on :
Isn't there a stage layout in Inside Star Trek? Is this the same one as your blueprint? Even if it is, can you post it somewhere, or email what you have to me as well?! I really want to see it.
Yeah, me too. I can't wait to get my hands on that one. That would be sooo great!!
------------------ Kryten: Pub? - Ah yes. A meeting place where people attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks. - Red Dwarf "Timeslides"
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
How specific do you need the measurements? I mean, the relative scales of the sets are pretty well documented in The Making of Star Trek, where there's a plan of stage 9. I don't recall that there's a key to the scale, though. :\
Posted by Zor Prime on :
Yes, what I have is similar to what is in the Making of Star Trek. What I have is about 31 x 23 inches and is specific to the day's shooting. I have I think 5 different blueprints showing the stage setup for different days. I'd be glad to email the scan of the engineering area, but I need addresses to send it to.
------------------ Kryten: Pub? - Ah yes. A meeting place where people attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks. - Red Dwarf "Timeslides"
Posted by Zor Prime on :
Hey, if you look at the top of the engineering set in this pic: http://members.aol.com/WMccullars/GemKirk6.html it looks like the curve might intend it to be the top of the secondary hull curve? Hmm.. Gotta check my 1701 cutaway again.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I agree, Zor. The vaulted ceiling would suggest engineering is at the top of the secondary hull rather than in the primary hull by the impulse deck. Of course, the cutaways and blueprints are all non-canon, so are not "proof" one way or another.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Maybe yes, maybe no. The braces are curved, but the actual ceiling above them is unseen and may be curved or flat. But notice also that the braces to not get lower as they go aft, so unless Main Engineering is right forward in the secondary hull (very likely for other reasons as well), it's probably a deck or three down from the strongback. This is one of the vagueries I'm trying to resolve.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
Posted by Zor Prime on :
I don't think engineering is supposed to be right at the top of the secondary hull, it's at least a couple decks down I would think. Take a look at the 1701 cutaway poster, they seem to have placed it at a proper "height" within the hull. So, maybe the frame members (if indeed that's what those braces looking things are in the photo), are not all the same, the bottom of each one is at even height, but the tops follow the hull slope. The frame members go down a couple decks before they reach the top of engineering. Maybe I'll model it in 3d and see how realistic it looks. Also, seeing that photo makes me think that the designers of the set probably imagined it being in the secondary hull, so curved the braces, but didn't think to include the detail of it following the hull slope. Look at the problem of the turbolist on the bridge. On the exterior model, it's at centreline, but on the set, it's offset (because it works better on film), but when you put the 2 together, you have to offset the bridge 36 degrees like Franz Joseph did to make the 2 things work. Let me do a bit of modeling and send you a pic and see what you think.
The square thing inside is where engineering would be probably, and the blue things are possible hull framemembers. Way too think I know, but see how it angles down along the hull, yet on the bottom of them, they are equal. Thought this might help visualize things.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
There is a TOS marathon on here in Australia at the moment, and if you see "The Enemy Within"...? The one where there are two Kirks... Spock asks Kirk where would HE go to avoid being found... and Kirk says "the lower decks, the engineering deck"... and then later on while in Engineering we see the roof because there is a shot of Kirk (bad) on top of those 'barrels'... what ARE they anyway?
Does anyone get the feeling of Engineering, not being symmetrical?
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
As I believe I pointed out earlier, that's because the Engineering SET is only the starboard half of the "REAL" Engineering -- that is, what we see is mirrored in the direction usually "behind" the camera. Scotty's second-level office, seen in a few episodes, essentially straddles the centreline.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
Posted by Psi'a Meese on :
Peregrinus,
What is your source that the engineering set shown represents only half the room?
I certainly haven't a problem with the concept. Just curious as to why you believe this?
------------------ Purrr...
[This message has been edited by Psi'a Meese (edited April 14, 2001).]
Posted by Jim Phelps (Member # 102) on :
The "Enemy Within" evidence supports a secondary-hull location because the question asked of Kirk is "where would you go to avoid being found?", to which he replies "the lower levels, engineering". Why merely hide in the lower levels of the saucer section when you could go even deeper and hide in the secondary hull?
Mostly I believe this because the ceiling braces start low on the "starboard" wall of the set and curve gracefully up to the "port" side of the set. Give me a rational scenario where this would represent the entirety of a centerline-mounted room...
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
Posted by Zor Prime on :
Ohh, so you mean the big machinery things that look to be on the left side on engineering, usually behind the camera, and pulled aside in the behind the scenes gemkirk photo, are really in the centre of the room, and the wall with the stairs going up is mirrored on the other side. Sounds like a nifty idea. What happens with the big orange things behind the screen? Another one is duplicated too?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I actually, did think of the whole mirrored idea too, but what stopped me short of mentioning it, was the 'pipes' behind that screen... Could they be what are going up to the Nacelles? I originally thought that they were then the centre line of the Engineering set, but I guess, that they are then mirrored... and the pipes that go toward the middle, could go horizontal for a little bit and continue up to the other nacelle...
Also, I agree, that this could be one half, because that 'upper' level we see that runs along the side of the wall??
Maybe then in TMP, the 'set that we see' is like the 'pipes' but the 'wall' and 'screens' were knocked out and we get the whole set... and see the 'length' of the engineering set?
What about in "The Conscience of the King" was see Lt. Riley in a very very large room in "Engineering" is that the 'front' part?????
I'm enjoying this Marathon, more on tonight and tomorrow night!
I watched them all last night!
Andrew!
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well, Zor reguarding your model, that is roughly where Engineering is located on the E-D too, so the idea could work.
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
