Has it actually been confirmed that the Deneva-class starship seen briefly in TNG was indeed the Merchantman model first seen in STIII?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nope.
Mark
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I know that the ship was only seen for a few seconds before it blew up;
I know that the viewscreen image of the ship was very small;
I know that most likely it was a reuse of another model instead of a new one;
But could someone, please, post a better screencap of the ship, if at all possible???
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I guess there aren't any better screencaps, 'cause I think they've been asked for before...
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I still say, from all my reviews of the episode, and from all my squinting at the sole screencap, that it's the E-D stardrive section at a 3/4-aft angle.
--Jonah
P.S. Note that this is not what I think the Deneva actually IS, just what model they used for the shot...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, call me crazy (or just uninformed ) but I could have sworn that it was confirmed as the Merchantman model!
Oh well. But by the way Perigrinus, the overall shape of the Merchantman (from some angles) looks not all too dissimilar from the Galaxy's stardrive!
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I still say, from all my reviews of the episode, and from all my squinting at the sole screencap, that it's the E-D stardrive section at a 3/4-aft angle.
I find it highly unlikely that they hauled out the huge Enterprise-D model just for a few seconds of filming for a pretty forgettable episode (remember, only the large-sized Enterprise model could seperate), especially at such a far away view.
I like to think that someone made a small, lo-rez model for the Arcos, knowing that it would be barely seen. I'm probably wrong, though. However, there has been a precedent for this in the past (Wolf 359, the Skreean kitbashes, that little spacedock shuttle with nacelles made from disposable razors, etc.)
BTW, did the ship look clearer in the actual episode than it did in the screencap? I'm not about to rent "Legacy" just for that, if the local videostore even carries that particular ep.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Hate to point this out, but "Legacy" came after "Best of Both Worlds". They had several E-D stardrive sections laying around from their kitbashing parties...
--Jonah
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Right I'll see to this debate as it's an old one thats dragging on and on in one format or another. I'll investigate the footage and make some screencaps. I'll post them here in a little while.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Right, all done:
POINT 1. There is nothing at all to suggest any type of Galaxy class stardrive section similarity.
POINT 2. No Starfleet logos, registry numbers, or other familiar starship elements are present.
POINT 3. Very little about this ship suggests it is a Starfleet design, or is represented by the UFP
POINT 4. No signs of a starfleet crew operating the ship, or UFP representatives.
Summary: This is not a Starfleet vessel, and this is not the Deneva class, be it a freighter or not.
[ July 03, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Damn, I thought you meant you were going to post screencaps of "Legacy." Oh well.
I never thought the Merchantman model was the Deneva class or the Arcos anyway, but nice screencaps nevertheless.
Jonah: True, or someone just bought a new model or scratchbuilt something up.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
What exact caps do you want from 'Legacy'? Let me know and I'll post them here tomorrow.
Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
I can�t speak for Dukhat, but I would dearly like to see big screencaps of the deneva-class ship, please.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Red Admiral: Erm... I'm not sure if you understood the point of this debate. No-one's asking whether or not the Merchantman itself was Starfleet. What we want to know is what model was used to represent the Arcos in "Legacy". It was seen as a tiny dot for a few seconds, and then it blew up. No-one's definitively identified the model used yet, but one theory is that it was another re-use of the Merchantman model (that model was used a lot during TNG).
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
I did understand the thread, my reply was basically in response to the original thread which queried whether the Merchantman might be a Deneva Class starship. As Deneva class is (supposedly) a Starfleet classification, I simply posted some screencaps to demonstrate the disparate appearance of the Merchantman as opposed to traditional Starfleet design themes.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
The Deneva class ship in 'Legacy' is under scrutiny as we speak, I'll post the best screencap results as I can when they're ready.
Again, my point was to emphasize my doubts that the Merchantman was Deneva, (ie Starfleet), but I'll try and bring to light any similarity it may have with the Archos.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Damn it, I'm really sorry, but the video quality I have of this episode just isn't good enough to get a good screen capture, virtually no useful detail can be seen at all. I need to get hold of a better quality recording of this ep. I'll have to hunt around for it. Again, sorry.
Any other screencap requests, lol!
[ July 04, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]
Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
Actually Red admiral, I would still like to see the screencaps you�ve got, if that�s ok? I don�t care too much about the details, one can always get better later, but for now, any screencap will do.
Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
The Arcos, is she identified as a starship in the episode? The reason that I ask is that there are two basic categories of Federation ships: 1.) Starships. Identified with a USS and carrying either NCC- or NX- or NCV- as part of the registry. These ships are associated with Starfleet. 2.) Spaceships. Identified with a SS or no SS. Registries carry a three letter alpha system (ex. NAR-). These ships are not associated with Starfleet.
If the Arcos is not identified as a starship, then she is a non-Starfleet ship and her class may not be Deneva.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I don't remember what they said in the episode, but in the Encyclopedia, it is listed under the starships list as "U.S.S. Arcos" and given the class designation of Deneva. The unseen U.S.S. LaSalle starship is also of this class. IIRC, the crew wore uniforms similar to the crews of the Raman & the Norkova, which were both classified as Federation ships.
Red Admiral: A year ago I would have said, "screencaps of Wolf 359!", but that's been pretty much covered. How about some caps of the surplus depot from Unification Pt. I?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yes, IIRC, the crew of the Arcos wore the grey uniforms with the dark grey shoulder stripe like the scientists in "Who Watches the Watchers"
It's obvious that these uniforms are made to resemble standard starfleet uni's due to the way that shoulder stripe lays, but I don't know whwther they are actually Starfleet uniforms or something "Federation Science" uniforms. The scientists in "WWTW" seemed to be Starfleet scientists. They were bound by the Prime Directive.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Red Admiral. Re Screen-caps - I was wondering if you could do some screen caps of the opening sequence in the DS9 episode "A Time To Stand" - there are several ships there, we've been wondering about, there are just NO good screen captures on the net of these ships.
1. The opening fleet 2. As many as you can of the Centaur.
Thankyou
Andrew
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
There's a few at www.shiporama.org Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
Thanks for the links all, but I would really like to see Red Emperor's captures from that episode... the shiporama (Pedro's) captures for that episode are quite - dodgey at best. And FrankG doesn't seem to have this episode at his disposal...
So RE... if you would be so helpful...
it'd be GREAT!
if you can't, don't worry.
Thanks
Andrew (And I'm sure others who'll appreciate the following A Time To Stand Ship debate...)
PLUS, I'm sure that 'tug' is not Federation as per the fact-files/magazine... I mean it looks SO Klingon...
Andrew
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
...everybody- I've been a complete and utter asshole. After the first attempt to get any useful screencaps of the Archos, I inteded to return to recapture some as per pln'a'sovs request. But I then had to go out (This was Wednesday night), so I set a tape in my VCR to tape something. The one snag being, I forgot to reinsert a blank tape hence replacing the tape containing 'Legacy', and 3 others TNG episodes. And guess what, the whole the damn episode was taped over!!!
On this discovery, I spent the next half hour banging my head against the wall. So, I'm very sorry, there'll be no Archos caps for now, but that episode will rerun soon.
Qualor II and 'A Time to Stand' I can manage. I remove the erasure tabs first though, lol.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
I've added the screencap analysis in a new thread, as it doesn't relate to this Denava Class thread.
) but I could have sworn that it was confirmed as the Merchantman model!
