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U.S.S. Olympia: Constitution-class?
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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,6,20,28,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 06, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:28 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Since the wreckage of the Olympia from DS9 "The Sound of Her Voice" was the constitution refit model destroyed in STIII and later used in TNG "Best of Both Worlds" can we call it a Constitution-class vessel? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,6,21,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 06, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> As I recall, all we saw was an unidentifiable chunk of wreckage and a bit of a Constitution nacelle. Some have speculated that the ship might have been a Constellation, since the nacelles are the same, and it's been theorized/assumed that the Constellation's four nacelle setup facilitates deep space missions. (At least, the only Constellation whose assignment we know anything about, the Stargazer, was on a deep space mission.) <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,0,18,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:18 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> That theory also comes from the idea that there's a warp core for each pair of nacelles. Therefore, they can be run at higher speeds for longer times, because one core can rest while the other is running. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>USSdefiant</b> <br /><small>Member # 655</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,1,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:16 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Ummm, I am fairly sure that every cannon drawing of the internal designs of ships have only had 1 warp core. Also, if you look at the size of the core in voyager and how it was ejected multiple times, you can pretty much conclude that there is only 1. Where did you hear the theory that there is 1 core per nacelle? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The_Tom</b> <br /><small>Member # 38</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,1,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:41 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Um, just to interject, I don't we've seen any canonical internal arrangment of the Constellation. And how is what the Intrepid does relevant? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Red Admiral</b> <br /><small>Member # 602</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,7,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:41 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The basic bottom line has to say that it can't be a Constitution class ship. They have long, LONG since been decommissioned. We've had a number of allusions to verify this. But other than the Constellation possibilities, the Miranda variants also use similar type nacelles. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Delta Vega</b> <br /><small>Member # 283</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,7,53,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:53 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, we can't say for sure the (Refit) Constiution class has been retired from service. By the same token of time, the Miranda should be long gone. A few (Refit) Constitutions may have been refitted for light deep space exploration vehicles, leaving just the hull the same and gutting the interior to add new systems, etc. <p>And Voyager was supposed to have carried another core in the forward part of the engineering hull, but it was never mentioned on-screen. It came from a look at the model of Voyager (the official one) in Star Trek: The Magazine, I believe. The model guy who did the interview (forgot who) said it wasn't a "plug and play" core, but rather an auxiliary one, if that makes any sense, and was never online.<p>[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: Delta Vega ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,9,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:35 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'm not even gonna touch the whole Constitution decommission debate. Wait a minute yes I will. Now, what are these allusions you speak of? All I know of is a.) The Enterprise-A was being decommissioned in STVI, after only some few years in service, b.) Picard in "Relics" (TNG) says there's one in the Fleet Museum.<p>Well, first of all, we have basically no friggin' clue as to how may years the Ent-A was in service while she was still the Yorktown. But even if it did appear that Starfleet was decommissioning the class in STVI, that doesn't rule out the possibility of later re-commissioning it. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <p>The "Relics" line is easy to explain in that it was probably, as many have proposed, referring to the unrefitted configuration, which would be archaic indeed.<p>In contrast, we have quite a bit more evidence of them still being in service:<br />a.) Stargazer was originally to be a Connie.<br />b.) Constitution wreck seen at Wolf 359 graveyard. (Constitution prototypes were also probably there.)<br />c.) The U.S.S. Republic from "Valiant" (DS9) is very probably the same Connie from Kirk's cadet days. (As indicated by the writer of the episode and the Encyclopedia.)<br />d.) The appearance of a Constitution-class variant in DS9 "A Time to Stand" and in the Technical manual. (Along with two other ships which were 'kitbashed' with Connie parts.)<br />e.)Just the plain fact that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Oberths, Constellations, etc. (virtually all the Connie's contemporaries except the Soyuz) are still in widespread use.<br />e.) I hope, the U.S.S. Olympia. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"><p>So, I say Connies may very well still be in use. In any case, I'd like to try to get confirmation of whether or not it was the destroyed Enterprise model that was used for the O. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>J</b> <br /><small>Member # 608</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,11,40,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:40 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Voyager had a spare warp core. But don't forget about the Prometheus, it had multiple warp cores --one-- for each section.<p>[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: J ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,11,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:49 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Prommie is unique because it has to seperate into three self-sufficient, warp-capable craft each with their own pair of nacelles.<p>That's also why it's the only six-nacelled ship we've ever seen. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Red Admiral</b> <br /><small>Member # 602</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,12,28,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:28 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I would require direct convincing for me to accept that any Constitutions are still active. When I think of Picard's line in 'Relics', I find it illogical that he would mention the fact that 'one was in the fleet museum' first off, and quite matter of factly, and that he then didn't go on to say there were any others, in service or not. <p>Don't get me wrong, I'd have no problem with them being still in service, and although I suggested they've been 'long decommissioned', I don't totally and completely dismiss the idea, but I still have doubts. But to respond accordingly to your points....<p>"a.) Stargazer was originally to be a Connie."<p>-But it wasn't in the end as it was deemed too convenient and implausible, so a new class model was constructed. So it doesn't really have any bearing on this debate.<p>"b.) Constitution wreck seen at Wolf 359 graveyard. (Constitution prototypes were also probably there.)"<p>-The wreck you speak of was only a Constitution secondary hull. A Constitution-style saucer has also been spotted, but associated with another wreck. This is though good evidence that Constitutions could still be in some kind of active service (or did up until the Wolf 359 battle) :-) <p>"c.) The U.S.S. Republic from "Valiant" (DS9) is very probably the same Connie from Kirk's cadet days. (As indicated by the writer of the episode and the Encyclopedia.)"<p>-I've always assumed it to be another ship, as a ship of probably 120 years plus being used as a supposedly hi-tech, cutting edge training ship a little implausible. But again, not out of the question, after all it depends on the nature of the training it was intended for.<p>".) The appearance of a Constitution-class variant in DS9 "A Time to Stand" and in the Technical manual. (Along with two other ships which were 'kitbashed' with Connie parts.)"<p>-Which variant is this? These 'A Time to Stand' pics are in the other thread, and I have identified no variant, at least not in any clear sense. It could be way out of view in the background somewhere. But a Connie variant doesn't constitute (no pun intended) the existence of present day Constitutions.<p>"e.)Just the plain fact that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Oberths, Constellations, etc. (virtually all the Connie's contemporaries except the Soyuz) are still in widespread use."<p>-With the exception of the Oberths (possibly), the ohter ships here come somewhere between twenty and forty years after Constitution first launched.<p>"e.) I hope, the U.S.S. Olympia."<p>-It would be nice to know for sure. I would get no greater thrill than to see an enhanced, brought-up-to-date Constitution in the field...! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Red Admiral</b> <br /><small>Member # 602</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,12,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Additionally, thinking about it more....<p>One good reason why I would need strong convincing is the general age of the Constitution class. Present day (24th century) starships are built with a life span expectancy of about 100 years. This wasn't so in the 23rd century. The Enterprise was 40 years old by STIII, and was deemed too old to continue in service, so its decommissioning was suggested.<p>This was also one of the first batch Connies, so in my estimation, NO first batch Connies can possibly be still in service. I think most of us would agree on that. If they only had a maximum fifty year life expentency in the 23rd century, nothing would change this until perhaps ANOTHER batch production was implemented... This is the only other possibility, and is why the Constellations, Mirandas and Excelsiors have gone on so long, because they've been constucted for so long in multiple batches.<p>This is I believe one theory that supports the possibility that good ole Connie could, in some form, be still running around out there.... But again I would love some precise proof. But it could be hard to find as this theory itself is hindered by the general failure of the Enterprise-A/Yorktown refit, unless of course a brand new specification was implemented some time afterwards to completely rebuild and re-commission a new Constituion style variant...<p>[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,12,57,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:57 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 1. I thought they planned to use the connie all the way through, but at the last minute Greg Jein said "no you're not" and produced a home-built model which was substituted.<p>2. The 359 wreck is obviously a Connie. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,13,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:04 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Damn it, I keep hitting that figgin' button before I'm friggin' done...<p>3. The writer of the show said he intended it to be the connie. Encyc implies such. It wasn't supposed to be a high tech cutting edge type of deal. It was an archaic vessel which hadn't left the solar system in decades. I thought that was the whole point, comparing it to the Valiant which was a much more effective training ship.<p>4. The one from the Tech Manual with no engineering hull. Also, the Curry and the Voyager-prototype are Excelsior/Constitution- and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship variants.<p>5. Okay, but how much of a difference is twenty years in the grand scheme of things... <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <p>6. Me, too. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,17,16,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:16 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blcokquote>"2. The 359 wreck is obviously a Connie."</blockquote><p>There's a <i>Constitution</i>-style secondary hull, and a <i>Constitution</i>-style primary hull. You assert that the two nacelles + saucer ship in the DS9TM is real. How do you know the saucer at W359 wasn't from one of those? How do you know the secondary hull wasn't from some other ship that uses it? That wreckage was no more "obviously a Connie" than the nacelle at the top of the viewscreen in TBoBW was "obviously" as <i>Galaxy</i> (as we know it was, in fact, a <i>Niagara</i>).<p><blockquote>"4. The one from the Tech Manual with no engineering hull. Also, the Curry and the Voyager-prototype are Excelsior/Constitution- and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship variants."</blockquote><p>The <i>Curry</i> was an <i>Excelsior</i>/<i>Miranda</i> combination. And you yourself have said you think the "<i>Intrepid</i>/<i>Constitution</i>" was the <i>Voyager</i> prototype. I'm pretty sure that ship actually had custom nacelles, not the Connie ones seen in the TM. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Mighty Monkey of Mim</b> <br /><small>Member # 646</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,17,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:30 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> TSn:<p>1. We <i>know</i> that the model was the Constitution! I don't make up stuff for onscreen. That <i>was</i> the refit Constitution model that was on the screen. Because we know that, we know it was a Connie.<p>2. I am using the official, canon (for now) designations for the Curry and the Voyager, which are "Excelsior/Constitution-Class Starship Variant" and "Intrepid/Constitution-Class Starship Variant" respectively. And Okuda confirmed that all models from the DS9 Technical Manual were used in the show, albeit somewhere waaaay in the background where we can't see them clearly.<p>P.S. <br />Sorry to be so confrontational, TSN.<br />What can I say? I'm a Trekkie. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"><br />No hard feelings. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>targetemployee</b> <br /><small>Member # 217</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,18,46,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:46 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The debris field on the planet in the "Sound of her Voice" is composed of parts of the first Enterprise (refit) that were seen in ST III and "The Best of Both Worlds" and other starship parts. I think the visual meaning is to convey the horrifying reality of the last moments of the U.S.S. Olympia as she was destroyed.<p>One of the puzzling aspects of the show is that we don't see the crew of the U.S.S. Defiant talking about the U.S.S. Olympia's background. Of course, if they did this, the story would be over before it began for the crew would realized that that the other ship disappeared three years before and that the possibility of survivors is zilch. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,7,21,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 07, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:52 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Monkey: We also <i>know</i> that the <i>New Orleans</i>, <i>Freedom</i>, <i>Challenger</i>, and so on were made out of <i>Galaxy</i> model parts, and other stuff. But those <i>Galaxy</i> model parts don't represent pieces of <i>Galaxy</i>-class ships. They represent pieces of other ships. Just like the <i>Constitution</i> model parts don't need to represent pieces of <i>Constitution</i>-class ships, but pieces of other ships which happen to have <i>Constitution</i>-like bits on them. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Reverend</b> <br /><small>Member # 335</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,4,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:31 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> This may sound strange but I could swear that there is a piece of Oberth (maybe Vico) wreakage in there.<br />Its at the bottom centre of this <a href="http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/Voice28b.jpg" target="_blank">scene</a> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Red Admiral</b> <br /><small>Member # 602</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,6,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:04 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I can't see anything Oberth in there, it's too hard to make out any clear details in that picture.<p>On the whole, I have to agree with TSN, we have no concrete proof either way what class any of these were. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Reverend</b> <br /><small>Member # 335</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,7,39,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:39 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> How about now?<p><a href="http://null" target="_blank">null</a> <img src="http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/Voice28c.jpg"> <p><br />I think it might be the front part of an oberth's starboard nacelle. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,19,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:49 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Since this thread's been all over the place, I'm going to address stuff in no particular order...<p>The wreckage in "BoBW" included a 'distressed' <i>Constitution</i>-refit secondary hull and nacelles in one shot and the self-destructed <i>Enterprise</i> saucer from TSfS in a shot shortly after. It has been generally assumed that this was a decommissioned <i>Constitution</i>-refit pressed into service to defend Earth from the Borg.<p>The <i>Republic</i> was <i>never</i> even <i>hinted</i> to be <i>Constitution</i>-class in the one episode in which it was mentioned in TOS. Despite the overwhelming opinion of fandom and Okuda, I disbelieve in it being <i>Constitution</i>-class.<p>Which brings me to the whole training ship debate. The U.S. Coast Guard maintains the sailing ship <i>Eagle</i> to train cadets and enlisted personnel. The ship is not intended to give them hands-on experience with cutting-edge technology or the like -- that's what the classrooms are for. The <i>Eagle</i> is solely about teaching teamwork. responsibility, and leadership.<p>What did I forget...?<p>--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,19,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:51 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Ah yes... The Defiant write-up in the DS9 TM mentioned a courier version with four nacelles to allow for longer runs at high speed because the nacelle pairs could switch off between the upper and lower pairs -- but with a single core powering the whole tamale.<p>Now, what else did I forget...?<p>--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Peregrinus</b> <br /><small>Member # 504</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,6,8,20,1,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 08, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:01 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Oh yeah...<p>I always took Picard's line in "Relics" to indicate the original-config <i>Constitution</i> as well. In fact, some sources go so far as to make it the old U.S.S. <i>Potemkin</i>. I approve.<p>And as for the Stargazer, Rick Sternbach did full-on blueprints based off the desk model he built for Picard's ready room, which Greg Jein then built. Notice the episode before "The Battle", that model was replaced with a plain ol' <i>Constitution</i>-refit.<p>Now, have I forgotten anything else?<p>--Jonah <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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