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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Antagonist</b> <br /><small>Member # 484</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,23,17,41,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 23, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:41 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The other night I began to wonder: "How fast do some of these ships in Trek actually accelerate?"<br />Not knowing, I figured it would be a safe bet to refer myself to my handy tech manual. So, off I went, looking high and low for it. Early in the search, I realized I sold them back to the book store.<p>DOH! <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <p>So, I am forced to ask for help on this matter.<p>If anyone could be helpful enough to list for me the acceleration of say, the Galaxy class, Defiant Class, and the Intrepid (if any is known at all), I thank you. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Antagonist</b> <br /><small>Member # 484</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,24,14,25,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 24, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:25 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> *pushes his thread back up to the top of the forum*<br />Fear my mighty thread manipulation powers. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Guardian 2000</b> <br /><small>Member # 743</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,15,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:00 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by The Antagonist:<br /><strong><p>If anyone could be helpful enough to list for me the acceleration of say, the Galaxy class, Defiant Class, and the Intrepid (if any is known at all), I thank you.</strong><hr></blockquote><p><br />Well, the TNG:TM lists the Galaxy Class acceleration as something on the order of 10,000 m/s^2 . . . or around a thousand g. <p>We hardly ever see any representation of awe-inspiring acceleration of such a calibre . . . though some have mentioned the Enterprise in ST:TMP after leaving dock, the "Kumeh Maneuver" in "Peak Performance"(TNG), and a few other examples. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Masao</b> <br /><small>Member # 232</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,16,40,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:40 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Something I've always wondered is why the impulse drive can't push a ship to near the speed of light. If you keep adding delta v (acceleration), shouldn't the speed reached only be limited by the light-speed limit? Why should "full impulse" be only 1/4 c (or whatever)? Does impulse rely on some sort of warp field/relativistic mumbo jumbo? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Phelps</b> <br /><small>Member # 713</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,18,25,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:25 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The TNGTM says that the ships are limited to 1/4c in order to avoid the problem of time dilation. The Enterprise-D can actually make 0.96c or so.<p>[ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: Phelps ]</p> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Masao</b> <br /><small>Member # 232</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,18,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:31 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> By why should it make only .96 c? Shouldn't impulse be able to push a ship to .9999999etc c? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>The Antagonist</b> <br /><small>Member # 484</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,18,36,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:36 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hmm, if I remember right, I think it said int he original tech manual that you could accelerate a ship to Warp velocities (since impulse is really just a miniature warp field...sorta) using impulse. But why the "top speed" is .96c, I dunno. I always thought the speed would be exponential. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,20,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Uh, fuel, obviously. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,20,42,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:42 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Um, yeah...wouldn't it require infinite fuel to Newtonianly accelerate an increasingly infinitely-weighted mass to <I>c</I>? <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Guardian 2000</b> <br /><small>Member # 743</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,26,21,30,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 26, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:30 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, the idea mentioned is that .25c is generally where they stop accelerating so as to avoid the untidy time dilation effects inherent in traveling near lightspeed in realspace.<p>(That's not technobabble . . . that's physics.)<p>Impulse engines are non-Newtonian, though, insofar as they use a small subspace field generator (spacetime driver coil) of below 1000 milliCochranes to give the ship an extra kick and better fuel efficiency. <p>A subspace field of better than 1000 milliCochranes is necessary for superluminal flight. <p>(That's not physics . . . that's technobabble.) <p>Also, it prevents the entire rear-facing area of the ship from having to be a big frickin' sublight engine, like you see on Star Wars Star Destroyers.<p>(At one point many presumed that the impulse engines provided forward thrust at warp speed, with the warp engines merely providing the continuum distortion effect . . . an episode of Next Gen added to this presumption, when Picard ordered an increase to warp six and Geordi replied "Aye, sir, full impulse". However, the tech-deities that be seem to have settled on the notion that the warp drive's continuum distortion effect is selectively created against the fabric of spacetime to cause the ship to have the necessary acceleration.) <p>Guardian 2000 <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Timo</b> <br /><small>Member # 245</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,27,0,29,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:29 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Which is a good conclusion to come to. After all, Kirk was happily flying at warp speeds in TOS "Obsession", while his impulse engines were down for repairs. Those repairs in fact were the reason the gaseous monster was able to enter the otherwise airtight ship: some sort of a vent had been left open in the impulse engines. (I assume there was a semipermeable forcefield or film in place there, to prevent the air from leaking out...)<p>I gather that there could be physical reasons for not attaining lightspeed even through a non-Newtonian type of acceleration. There might simply be an interstellar medium that creates a drag proportional to some positive power of speed, so at some point the drag becomes too much for any ship to defy. The drag might be "real", from interstellar gases or something, or "technobabble", from a subspace ether of some sort.<p>Timo Saloniemi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Guardian 2000</b> <br /><small>Member # 743</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,27,7,13,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:13 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Timo:<br /><strong>Which is a good conclusion to come to. After all, Kirk was happily flying at warp speeds in TOS "Obsession", while his impulse engines were down for repairs. Those repairs in fact were the reason the gaseous monster was able to enter the otherwise airtight ship: some sort of a vent had been left open in the impulse engines. (I assume there was a semipermeable forcefield or film in place there, to prevent the air from leaking out...)</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Quite true! (I never got in on that debate . . . I was fairly fresh on the scene when the TNG TM came out, and was quite starstruck with all things spoken by technodeities Sternbach and Okuda.)<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr><strong>I gather that there could be physical reasons for not attaining lightspeed even through a non-Newtonian type of acceleration. There might simply be an interstellar medium that creates a drag proportional to some positive power of speed, so at some point the drag becomes too much for any ship to defy. The drag might be "real", from interstellar gases or something, or "technobabble", from a subspace ether of some sort.<p>Timo Saloniemi</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, short of making the spacetime driver coils have more than 1000 milliCochrane field distortion (thereby making them warp engines anyway), there would always come a point at which Newton and Einstein would catch up to you. <p>Even if I can achieve distortion up to 999.99999999999999 milliCochranes, I'll still never hit lightspeed because of that last wee little bit missing . . . my mass will still approach infinity . . . it'll just take longer.<p>Guardian 2000 <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Shik</b> <br /><small>Member # 343</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,27,9,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:49 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Timo:<br /><strong>There might simply be an interstellar medium that creates a drag proportional to some positive power of speed, so at some point the drag becomes too much for any ship to defy. The drag might be "real", from interstellar gases or something, or "technobabble", from a subspace ether of some sort.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>What was the TNG episode where they were trapped in a nebula & there was a major drag problem? FGC-47, I think it was..."Imaghinary Friend," I believe. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>J</b> <br /><small>Member # 608</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,27,18,47,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:47 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Would someone please tell me where in the heck that .96c came from? The TM says .75 for maximum impulse. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Malnurtured Snay</b> <br /><small>Member # 411</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,27,18,51,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:51 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yes, because The Technical Manual is the source for canon information, yessiree Bob! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>David Templar</b> <br /><small>Member # 580</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,27,20,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 27, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:38 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:<br /><strong>Yes, because The Technical Manual is the source for canon information, yessiree Bob!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Compared to the DS9TM, plus the fact that Sternbach and Okuda worked on it? Hell yeah! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>J</b> <br /><small>Member # 608</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,10,28,19,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">November 28, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:34 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'll ask again...<p>where is the .96 from? The only figure I've heard of is .75. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Cubic Centimeter</b> <br /><small>Member # 747</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,3,13,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 03, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:38 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by J:<br /><strong>I'll ask again...<p>where is the .96 from? The only figure I've heard of is .75.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>It is really 0.92 c, and it comes from the TM on page 2, in the secondary propulsion section. This is of course achieved only with added umphh from the saucer impulse engines <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jack_Crusher</b> <br /><small>Member # 696</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2001,11,4,4,24,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">December 04, 2001</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:24 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I nly know that Galaxy class ship can achieve about 80% light speed on impulse, with all three impulse engines working. <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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