This night, I was surfing through the web and I came upon a collection of notes. These notes pertain to conventions that occured between 1987 and 1995. Among these notes, I found a name- Ley. Ley is one of the small shuttlepods introduced in the second season. For those who attend conventions at a regular basis, have you heard of this name and what, if any, episode does this shuttlepod appear?
(Other interesting tidbits: *the USS Horatio had a dedication plaque which shown the ship being built by Yoyodyne Propulsion and having the motto: "Damn the torpodoes, Full speed ahead!" *the Romulan scout, seen in "The Defector", has a detachable command module which can act as a lifeboat *the model in Picard's ready room is painted yellow. The color yellow supposedly can help the designers look for structural weakneses of a ship in warp flight tests.)
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
my thoughts:
The Ley was noted as appearing in pre-production notetaking. Probably never made it near the label maker or the camera, judging by the fact that weve seen quite a few shuttlepods and we know the naming and labeling for all of them
Possibly the Horatio plaque was a preproduction note by Okuda, who found he wouldnt have to do it because there was no scene on the horatio bridge (just like they decided not to show the ambassador design Probert made in prep for season 1).. unless Keel had his ships plaque in his ready room (or quarters) where it might have been mounted for his shipboard scenes
The Romulan ship can separate: nice for them. I personally dont give a rats ass.
The ship was painted yellow for warp stress tests: So long and thanks for all the bullshit! thanks for the half assed explanation, but next time paint the study-model right. cheesy explanations like this just make the original mistake seem dumber... just chalk it up to artistic license on the part of the 24th century modelmaker and the issues in bed.
good noght folks!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Actually that bit about the yellow paint being a feature of test ships could accout for that fact that the ship apparently has no name, because its still in the early testing phase and only has a registery number for the hull....of course it doesn't explain why someone would bother to build a model of a ship in this condition.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
eh.. it could be that someone just wanted to match the brown and beige decor of the ready room.. im wondering how seriously we find ourselves taking set decorations like this
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Not very seriously. If it didn't have a registry number I would ignore it completely.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Yeah, i like registry numbers too, i gotta admit
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I kinda like the ideas of testbeds and the like. Pretty neat stuff, IMHO.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I've heard that thing about the model being yellow before, it's nothing new. Christ, I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with reasons why the ships on the Briefing Room were flat, beige, and cut in half; or gold in First Contact. Tell me, do you see a statue and say "That's not right, he's all grey, why isn't he pink?"
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Not to mention they don't even move. And have you seen that "David" one? The hands are way out of proportion. No continuity whatsoever.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
IIRC, that bit about the yellow paint is also in the TNGTM.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It does? where abouts? Hold on a tick...
*Rumages through his bookshelf*
[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Nevermind, I found it. for those of you who didn't its on page 17:
On a small sidenote, I've also discovered a possible explanation for why Voyagers Aerowing was never used, on the same page in the tech manual.
2358 .....Captain's yacht test article docked, nonflight version.
I suppose its possible that Voyager recieved a noneflight Aerowing while in spacedock and they never got around to installing the real thing. Perhaps it was gpoing to be installed on Tuesday Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That's the generally accepted explanation for the Aerowing, Reverend. Voyager's saucer basically has a giant plug to simulate the shuttle, but the real thing was never put in.
I don't buy the bit about the yellow paint. adding that much paint would add a bit of mass to that ship. I remember reading a bit about how the refit Ent-A was not painted white in order to save on the mass. Adding a whole other coat of paint, doesn't seem very bright. Unless they removed it again afterwards.
"Mr. Thomson, lock on to all the paint on that ship and beam it into space..."
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Um, I assumed that they meant the paint was on the models and used for simulations.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Now this is weird. Last night "In Theory" (the episode before "Redemption") was aired on local TV. There's a bit towards the end of the episode where Picard is piloting a shuttlepod in front of the Ent-D. I'm not 100% sure but when he first hails the Ent it sounded like he said "shuttlepod Ley to Enterprise". The name is not given again. Maybe someone with the "In Theory" script, or even the ep on tape, can confirm this.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I'm too lazy to run upstairs and check my Encyclopedia, but I'm pretty sure that the dialogue was something else. The Voltaire rings a bell.
As per a footnote in the TNGTM (I think) that shuttlepod exterior model was labelled "Pontiac" as a dig at Patrick Stewart, who was doing voiceovers in Pontiac commercials at that point (since then he moved on up to doing Porsche voiceovers and not only piloted the shuttle but directed the episode.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, I don't have to run upstairs because, for one, I don't have an upstairs, and also because I keep my Encyclopedia on my computer right next to me. And the shuttlecraft in "In Theory" was, in fact, the Voltaire, shuttle #3.
Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
Considering the age of the notes, I think I may be answering my own questions. The convention is held after the third season had ended. By this point, we had seen four shuttlepods-the El Baz NCC-1701-D/05 , the Onizuka NCC-1701-D/07 , the Pike NCC-1701-D/12 , and the unnamed fourth pod of "The Price", registry NCC-1701-D/09 . I am thinking this could be the Ley . Can we confirm this? I know that we were able to see the shuttlepod's side. Could we also see its name?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: That's the generally accepted explanation for the Aerowing, Reverend. Voyager's saucer basically has a giant plug to simulate the shuttle, but the real thing was never put in.
I'm aware that this is one of the theories, but that bit in the TNGTM is the first bit of official info to support it...well maybe not official, but its almost offical, I guess it depends on how you regard the tech manuals. My stance is that they are a fair guide...until they are contradicted, but not the DS9TM thats just a load of dingo's kidneys.
quote: I don't buy the bit about the yellow paint. adding that much paint would add a bit of mass to that ship. I remember reading a bit about how the refit Ent-A was not painted white in order to save on the mass.
Where did you hear that?
quote: Adding a whole other coat of paint, doesn't seem very bright. Unless they removed it again afterwards.
I thought that was the idea, that the yellow stuff was just for the initial warp stress testing dooblar, to see if the hull is sound and all that malarkie. It shouldn't be too difficult, a bit of thinner and some elbow grease...or if you must have a technical explanation then I'm sure a correctly modulated wide angle phaser beam could sort it.
quote: Um, I assumed that they meant the paint was on the models and used for simulations.
Nope, its in the bit about the ship's construction history. Besides, I can't see a 12" plastic model being painted yellow and shot off at warp 7.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think I read the thing about the paint on the refit Enterprise in "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise", but I could be wrong.
As far as the Aerowing theory, there really is no official explanation because it was never mentioned on the show. I think it was addressed in an interview in Star Trek The Magazine, but I don't remember for sure. But officialk or not, it does make sense. More so than the "they just forgot they had it" theory Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
It's also possible the Aerowing (or is it Aeroshuttle now?) was cannibalized for parts to keep other systems, or perhaps shuttles, running.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: I think I read the thing about the paint on the refit Enterprise in "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise", but I could be wrong.
I haven't seen that book in years but I'd love to get my hands on it. The yellow paint thing may be a relatively new practice, as the NCC-7100 (I think that's it) registry is probably 24th century, plus if we believe that the TNG manual has any credence at all then its safe to say that this was certainly done on the Galaxy-class.
The point I was trying to make with the Aerowing shuttle (better safe than sorry) is that we have a source predating Voyager that says that they install these non-flight test articles in place of hard-docked auxiliary craft. So its not just some extraneous excuse for a producer's lack of initiative, which lets be honest, is the real reason it was never used.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I dunno...I mean, your hull's got some warp stress fractures, but you can't see them well because the hull is greyish. Yellow sure as shit stands out against grey.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
quote: Nope, its in the bit about the ship's construction history. Besides, I can't see a 12" plastic model being painted yellow and shot off at warp 7.
Oh. Well. But it's not entirely unreasonable to have some sort of "warp wind tunnel" to test starship designs. If there is a 'subspace drag' which acts similar to fluidic drag in that greater forward profile in a starship = bad, then a warp wind tunnel would serve a useful purpose.
Incidentally, wasn't there a big grey, featureless Galaxy class ship in the holodeck scenes in "Booby Trap"? Anybody figure out what the nature of that thing coulda been?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: I dunno...I mean, your hull's got some warp stress fractures, but you can't see them well because the hull is greyish. Yellow sure as shit stands out against grey.
I think thats basically the idea.
quote: Oh. Well. But it's not entirely unreasonable to have some sort of "warp wind tunnel" to test starship designs. If there is a 'subspace drag' which acts similar to fluidic drag in that greater forward profile in a starship = bad, then a warp wind tunnel would serve a useful purpose.
I'm pretty sure they're supposed to use computer simulators for that.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Darn, slip of the click...
quote: Incidentally, wasn't there a big grey, featureless Galaxy class ship in the holodeck scenes in "Booby Trap"? Anybody figure out what the nature of that thing coulda been?
I think that was supposed to be the skeleton of the Enterprise in spacedock.
[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Computers are not all powerful. And the day they are is the day the future more resembles 2001: A Space Odyssey than Star Trek.
There is something to be said for having a physical model that a human can hold and look at. Recreating a starship with a model would allow engineers to put it in a wind tunnel and see how unknown variables of the design affect the performance. A computer simulation is incapable of finding variables and factors based on a computer simulation.
That would be why ships still go on shakedown cruises and the NX is alive and well.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
OK...OnToMars, you've gotta show me where you found that quote from MajorBarclow or whatever his name is....
Oh, and I agree...they probably test these designs in every way they can. Physical models, computer sims...everything. But I also think that the bit in the Tech Manual was certainly refering to the actual starship.
Of course, if we believe Voyager, the holodeck computers can predict variables in untested slipstream experiments down to where the hull will breach and, probably, which crew members are likely to be blown into space at that time.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Ok, have we seen any ships with an NX registry painted yellow? Nope...and the NX-01 does not count since it's more copper-ish.
As for the Aeroshuttle, maybe the components of the test article version were used to create the Delta Flyer...which would somewhat explain why the crew never even thought of using the thing.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Don't ever try to use Voyager as support for any kind of engineering/scientific debate. You're only doomed to failure.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
OMG....LOL!!!
That's the best read I've had in a long time. Usually people who speak English like that are from other countries...
And what the hell is his damage?! If I were the Brighton Beach Police Department, I'd start checking car trunks...
Oh, yah, I don't actually put faith in Voyager for tech specs...that was intended more for humorous effect.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
"If it's on my land, I can kill it. This is by law.
Then, aminals have no souls and so they don't feel suffer. God created beasts for man to use, eat, and kill. I don't hunt any real game animals. I just mostly go for little birds, coons, cats, and squirils. None are indangered and there are plenty. They need thining out so they don't starve in the winter."
This guy needs to be either locked up or invited to Flare.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Invited him to Flare!? Are you crazy!? We already have all the insanity we can handle here! No! Perish the thought! Watch five hours worth of reruns of Small Wonder this instant!
Anyway, as an aside that goes back to the OP, I read through most of those conference notes. There's some interesting stuff in there I didn't know about. For instant, I didn't know that the writers had flirted with giving LaForge actual sight. However, I didn't want to know about Marina Sirtis sitting on a young Wil Wheaton's lap and "sensing" him get excited. Yuck.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I think I'll die.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
*whoops...double post*
-MMoM
[ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: Ok, have we seen any ships with an NX registry painted yellow? Nope...and the NX-01 does not count since it's more copper-ish.
Nope, but then again, we've never seen a starship in such an early stage of development, remember that Picard's model wasn't even named, only numbered.
quote: As for the Aeroshuttle, maybe the components of the test article version were used to create the Delta Flyer...which would somewhat explain why the crew never even thought of using the thing.
I think you missed the point, a nonflight test article means that the thing can't fly, it's not a real ship, its just mockup, an empty shell...perhaps it has some components and materials to simulate the mass, density, EM emmissions of the real thing. I dout that it has anything useful enough to build the Delta Flyer.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Mock up or not, that test article version has to be able to go through atmospheric conditions, subspace radiation, and other -ish that the real thing would go through... and how would an empty shell do that?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Easy, its made out of Duratanium (or is it tritanium?) either way its the same stuff as Voyager's hull and is protected by the very same shields as the rest of the ship. It doesn't need engines, a gravity net or a cockpit with nice plush seats and ensuite waste extractor to just sit there and be a lump of metal.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
the whole function of a non-flight test article would be to cover the docking mechanism that the real thing would occupy, and maintian the ships silhouette/mass despite the lack of the real thing... so it WOULDNT have to got through atmoshperic whatever.. because its a NONFLIGHT version. Basically a aerowing shaped panel to keep the docking port from rusting
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Okay fine then, it's just a cover that is made of the same stuff as Federation starship hulls...damn I hate the fact that it was never used or mentioned.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
That would have been interesting...
JANEWAY: This calls for a "tougher-than-the-average-type-12" shuttle...
PARIS: Don't you mean Class 2?
JANEWAY: Ah....shutup yah smug git!
*THWACK*
JANEWAY: Mr Tuvok, have we built the Delta Flyer yet?
TUVOK: Not yet Captain, its still ther third season...
JANEWAY: Bugger, oh well then we'll have to the Aerowing...
CAREY: Uh, Captain...remember at Utopia Planitia when you told me to make sure that the dockmaster replaced the non-flight test article with the real deal...?
JANEWAY: Yes...
CAREY: Well I did remember to get one...but then I traded in for these magic "insta-shuttle" Ferengi beans...so we're kinda stuck with that lump of metal...
JANEWAY: Well thats just great! Go away and don't come back until the seventh season, where I intend to have you killed!
[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
HEY! SPOILER!
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Hey Reverend, ol' Andy got you there!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
He's got me where?!
Oh my! Let go of that you sick little puppy!!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Volume 7.10 should be coming early January. 7.11 Feb 7.12 March 7.13 April.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
whoops, I seam to have wandered into a Buffy DVD forum, sorry for the mix up! Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, Mike, I can see one instance where the non-flight test article would have to withstand atmospheric stresses...how about when the ship descends through an atmosphere to land on the planet as the Intrepids are designed to do and the underside of the hull is experiencing whatever re-entry force is not offset by the shields?
I sort of picture something like, the actual lower hull being there, but above that, the crew as installed an "Air-O-Shuttle Ride" ride like the one Penguin uses to control the Batmobile in "Batman Returns". That's where Chakotay goes to unwind.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif ":D")
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
and not only piloted the shuttle but directed the episode.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
This guy needs to be either locked up or invited to Flare.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)