I'm glad for corrections and suggestions.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Delta Flyer picture appears to be broken.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Broken Links:
Type 10 image DF thumbnail & image
No rants on the Enterprise-E shuttles? Are you sure 'bout that? Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
The TOS shuttle is designated "Class F". This was spoken onscreen in "The Menagerie" (or , now that I think about it, it could have been in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"...) And what about the 'NCC-K7' shuttle from DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations"?
You left out the Type 7 shuttle Kotoi, shuttlecraft 07 assigned to the U.S.S. Liberator NCC-67016 from "The Best of Both Worlds" (TNG).
Nenebeck had a registry number, IIRC. NAR-2066.
-MMoM
[ February 03, 2002, 13:57: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Fixed the dead images. Thanks.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
*Accidental post*
[ February 03, 2002, 14:07: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
Great!
GALILEO
In "The Menagerie" Part I, this is identified as a "Class F" shuttle. It has a standard crew of seven, with an intended length of 6.7m, as can be precisely measured from several schematics in "The Making of Star Trek" and "TOS Sketchbook". Of course, they used a smaller exterior model with larger interior sets, probably to save construction cost, but the 6.7m size is what Matt Jefferies intended, just like the 289m for the Enterprise and the 228m for the Klingon battlecruiser. Kirk's "24-foot shuttle" line might be an approximation.
Note that this type can be seen taking off in the "Director's Edition" of TMP, just before the shot showing Kirk leaving the air tram.
GALILEO 5 TYPE
The precise size of this is 30 feet or 9.1m. The book "The Making of Star Trek Movies" says that two models were built, a 1/6th scale 5' model and a 1/12 scale 2.5' model.
TYPE 6
It was based on the Galileo 5 -- I don't recall if they actually modified its exterior sets to be used as a Type 6.
GENERATIONS SHUTTLE
I suppose the length should be 9.1m as well
INTREPID ESCAPE POD
The Intrepid and the Defiant have the same escape pods (one of the scaling references that hasn't been tried yet, making the Defiant about 150m long).
SOVEREIGN ESCAPE POD
The TNG sketchbook mentions that the top surface serves as an atmospheric shield. Its dimensions should be easily ascertainable from the schematics.
[ February 04, 2002, 04:04: Message edited by: Phelps ]
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
IIRC the TNG TM mentions the shuttles Pontiac and Indiana Jones.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: IIRC the TNG TM mentions the shuttles Pontiac and Indiana Jones.
And the Sam Feedle. I checked the Encyclopedia, but it doesn't mention the names of the two shuttles seen in 'Cause and Effect' in hangar 1. But I'm quite sure one of those shuttles was named 'Berman'. Where did I hear this...? ('Berman' was also the name of the MicroMachines-Type 6. There are some nice pictures at www.edmiarecki.com , but you can't read any name.)
Barclay used the Type 9 shuttle 'Dawkins' to get to Jupiter station.
I thought the 'Verne' was a Type 6? I'm quite sure, but I didn't check it.
What about the executive shuttle used at the end of Generations? It had the Farragut-registry (I should have the screenshots somewhere, we discussed it some time ago at the TrekBBS), but no name was given.
'The Continuing Mission' had a picture of an Okudagram, a monitor showing the status of the shuttlepod 12, from 'Time Squared'. Maybe anyone has a picture?
The TNGTM also mentiones the 'Hawking', and obviously they are not talking about the shuttle from Generations. Did you see the cutscene from Generations with the 1/1-model of the Hawking? The Hawking has to be a successor of the old TFF-design since the vessel that carried Worf and Geordi to Picard's location was the actual ship. The cutscene wasn't that good, but I didn't see any difference between this one and the Galileo/Copernicus.
[ February 03, 2002, 15:06: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
According to the TNG Companion, there was the shuttlepod "Campbell" in Power Play. Also, the two shuttles in "Cause and Effect" were the Berman and the Piller.
[ February 03, 2002, 15:12: Message edited by: USS Vanguard ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
The two in "Cause and Effect" were the Berman and the Piller, actually. Of course, they (along with the Indiana Jones and the Sam Freedle) probably fall into the same area of canon as the Enterprise-D's duck. Then again, there was a Justman, wasn't there?
Just looked at Miarecki's website and it would appear he built a small army of baby Type-6s, all with names. I wonder if the other three are the Taylor, Menosky and Livingston? With perhaps the shuttlepod Braga?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: Just looked at Miarecki's website and it would appear he built a small army of baby Type-6s, all with names. I wonder if the other three are the Taylor, Menosky and Livingston? With perhaps the shuttlepod Braga?
The Shuttlepod Braga. That man doesn't even deserve a sensor probe named after him. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Whoops!
[ February 03, 2002, 16:12: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Bernd: Great work on that sphinx image! I may just retire because of it ;-)
Galileo 7 type
There was definatly one docked at K7 with the unfortunate NCC registry.
Type 7
There was a few of these parked on the Enterprise-d's Saucer at the end of Generations, but its not certain if they were the Enterprise's own or from the ships in orbit. I'm fairly certian that there is a retouched schematic bearing the Liberator's Reggo floating about somewhere
Type 9
I seam to rememmber a shot of one or two of these parked in Voyager's shuttle bay. Where there no names or shuttle numbers visible?
Air tram
There were several others in the hanger bay shot, I'm sure those of you with the new DVD (which is comming to Region 2 when!???!) can zoom in a rattle off the different numbers. Also I belive the stock footage of this thing was used at least once on Voyager, so its still kicking around in the 24th Century.
Executive Shuttle
If you look at the screen caps from Generations you can clearly see that this shuttle displays the Farragut's Reggo, so these people carriers are obviously not restricted to starbases. Presumably this was a CG model since the original had already been Sydney-ised.
Spacedock shuttle
Also capable of atmospheric flight (STIV) where we see one being serviced outside UFP HQ and later being used as a rescue vehicle. As a side note, this ship seams to fit the description for Paris's S-Class shuttle.
Time pod
It may be worth mentioning that this mock up started life as a Deneva-Class escape pod, I belive "Angel One" (TNG).
I'm wondering, should the "Spacematic" from K-7 be considered a federation design? given that its supposed to be owned by Cerino Jones.
[ February 03, 2002, 15:48: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
^^^^
Thanks for reminding me on the TMP : Director's Edition. There was also an old TOS-style shuttle parking in the airtram station. Far right of the screen. Look here:
I mailed Ed Miarecki go find out the names of the models pictured on his page. I have the strange feeling they didn't build them for 'Cause and Effect' but for 'Generations'. In the saucer-scene, we saw all those shuttles parked at the saucer, and the saucer itself was a physical model (at least the one they used for the crash-landing). So maybe he built those ships for Generations? (Why should he built 6 ships if he only uses 2 of them?)
[Edit:] The old shuttle's parking at the upper level, between the airtrams. And I just found another one, in front of the golden gate bridge, far left screen. A sideview. If they CGIed those shuttles, maybe someone can find out if they assigned a name.
[ February 03, 2002, 15:48: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: ^^^^
I mailed Ed Miarecki go find out the names of the models pictured on his page. I have the strange feeling they didn't build them for 'Cause and Effect' but for 'Generations'. In the saucer-scene, we saw all those shuttles parked at the saucer, and the saucer itself was a physical model (at least the one they used for the crash-landing). So maybe he built those ships for Generations? (Why should he built 6 ships if he only uses 2 of them?)
"Cause and Effect" was filmed way before "Generations". And that saucer looks more like a matt painting to me, either that or they're using a funny lense.
[Edit:] The old shuttle's parking at the upper level, between the airtrams. And I just found another one, in front of the golden gate bridge, far left screen. A sideview. If they CGIed those shuttles, maybe someone can find out if they assigned a name.[/QUOTE]
Where's Mojo when you need him!? Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
My guess would be 1701/7, since it was an injoke and couldn't be seen up-close.
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
The saucer from Generations is a model. There's a picture of Greg Jein standing next to it, and it is very, very large (lots of detail!).
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I know the crash sequence used a bloody huge model (I have the makeing of tape) I'm just saying that the final shot with the saucer covered in shuttles looks a little strange, warped even.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Reverend and Capt. Kyle, I'd love to see the 'caps of the mini-Sydneys from Generations with the Farragut's reg. I've never found one clear enough to read.
Thanks, -MMoM Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
"Voyager has consumed several of this modern type of shuttlecrafts" ( Type 9 )
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Don'cha know? They're great with a bernaise sauce..
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
A few comments:
In the TOS shuttle entry, the journey in "Metamorphosis" need not have been an interstellar one. After all, our heroes were caught in an asteroid field, a typical interplanetary phenomenon. The journey *may* have included an interstellar hop as well, but that could have been performed by a starship which the shuttle was about to rendezvous with, once past those nasty asteroids - say, the starship that was lacking one captain at that time...
Ditto for Geordi's trip in "Mind's Eye" - the Enterprise could have dropped him off at the outer edge of the target system, much like they dropped off Picard and Crusher in "Samaritan Snare". Apparently, big starships just don't want to poke too deeply into some star systems...
In "The Search", the (imaginary) shuttle or shuttlepod flown by Sisko and Bashir need not have been of the same type as the shuttlepod of Odo and Kira. While the same interior is used, the Sisko/Bashir pod has an aft hatch, a feature that doesn't agree with the exterior of the type 18 pod. The Kira/Odo interior utilizes the more proper gullwing doors. Perhaps Sisko and Bashir were dreaming of flying the "Chaffee" model, or some kind of a "type 17" craft?
In "Resolutions", the shuttle given to Janeway and Chakotay is not shown. If this is indeed our only real reference to "type 9", then we could forget about any connections between that and the Sternbach speedboat, and continue calling the speedboat "class 2" or, if we want, "type 12". "Type 9" in that context could mean just about anything - including the Sternbach TNG TM design! (If the DF fits in, then so does the 9A!)
Which reminds me, have we EVER heard of any shuttle designated as "type" something, outside this "Resolutions" reference? Isn't it always "class" something, except in the books?
Also, the speedboat (type 9/12/class 2/whatever) is not solely an Intrepid-specific design, since we saw one at Jupiter in "Lifeline".
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
There's the unknown type of shuttle in the Defiant's MSD -- it could be that which Timo mentions. I'm questioning the intended scale of the MSD at this point -- despite the people figures, it might be smaller, given the size of the hallways and the size of the bridge set.
The Type-18, contrary to what the DS9TM says, certainly has warp drive -- not only does Kira suggest that Odo should've taken them back to the wormhole, IIRC, but the episode "Destiny" confirms it in dialogue as well, where the warp drive is used to create the subspace field for moving the asteroid fragments off course.
We don't know anything about the minimum warp factor of the Type-18, but it need not be high -- after all, even Warp 1.1 can be a high speed, depending on plot requirements
I seriously doubt that the Chaffee (also called a "shuttlepod" in the dialogue) was installed from the very beginning, mostly because they would've used it -- in both situations where we've seen the shuttlepods, a good warp capability was a requirement. Besides, the Defiant model exterior just couldn't support the shuttlebay with the tractor emitter on top of the hatch. Sure, that old stock footage was used in "The Sound of Her Voice" as well, but since we haven't seen the flat hatch afterwards, the Chaffee is best explained as a one-off thing, a sort of a test as indicated in the DS9TM.
On the other hand, the producers probably built it since they'd need to CGI the old pods anyway, so why not improve on the design? The old pods were probably intended to resemble the earliest sketches of the Defiant, which we know wasn't completed when live-action footage of "The Search" was shot. I like the Chaffee better, but I don't know how the Defiant's armor with the tractor emitter could slide away to reveal the hatch. If a way can be found, why not? It would allow us to get rid of the two additional pod bays that were never seen onscreen, and create something more in line with the Defiant's nature.
[ February 04, 2002, 09:45: Message edited by: Phelps ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Don'cha know? They're great with a bernaise sauce..
Mark
Or should that be berndaise sauce ;o)
Sorry was the 'torpedo transport' from "The Emissary" mentioned?
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Ed did build that army of Type-6 shuttles for "Cause and Effect" along with the portion of the Main Shuttlebay. I don't know why he built that many but who knows if he gave them out as gifts to his bosses. As for the ending of "Generations," it seems that the saucer and the minature people were physical models while the shuttles were CGI. I don't think that the Sydney Class was reverted back into the Executive Shuttle just for the movie.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Those look like physical models. 4 Type 6 shuttles. Are you sure the ones from Miarecki's page weren't used for the movie? Furthermore, I think it's more difficult to create a new CGI of the exec shuttle that just take the old ship and change the color and remove the engines. And if the exec was CGI, they had done the type 6 and type 7, too. But both were already existing models.
And Mim, if I find the pictures (they were not really that good, but we were able to read the Farragut's NCC - or at least parts of it) I'll send them to you or post them. Depending on my mood. Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
NCC-60591. That's the Farragut's registry. And here are the pictures (exec1-3 are close-ups, execs shows the two ships from the large image).
Geocities. 'Nuff said. Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: the saucer
Those look like physical models. 4 Type 6 shuttles. Are you sure the ones from Miarecki's page weren't used for the movie? Furthermore, I think it's more difficult to create a new CGI of the exec shuttle that just take the old ship and change the color and remove the engines. And if the exec was CGI, they had done the type 6 and type 7, too. But both were already existing models.
I'm afraid that the exec model couldn't have been restored, if you look at the Jenolan you'll see that there are significant changes to the structure plus that model was later changed to the U.S.S. Nash with its dumb arse Jenolan ripoff reggo.
However, it is possible that more than one exec model was made for ST:VI, and that only one of them was Sydney-ised while the other(s) remained intact and was later repainted for "Generations".
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: NCC-60591. That's the Farragut's registry.
NCC-60597, actually. The '1' was a misprint in the Encyclopedia. See the studio model.
Thanks for the pics.
-MMoM Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: NCC-60591. That's the Farragut's registry.
NCC-60597, actually. The '1' was a misprint in the Encyclopedia. See the studio model.
Thanks for the pics.
-MMoM
And that is definatly a "7" on the Blue Exec Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: NCC-60591. That's the Farragut's registry. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NCC-60597, actually. The '1' was a misprint in the Encyclopedia. See the studio model.
A quote within a quote within a quote... I just saw a funny opportunity and had to take it... Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Veers:
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: NCC-60591. That's the Farragut's registry. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NCC-60597, actually. The '1' was a misprint in the Encyclopedia. See the studio model.
A quote within a quote within a quote... I just saw a funny opportunity and had to take it...
How infantile Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
*realizes opportunity, decides not to take it*
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
sorry, had posted something, wrong thread!
[ February 04, 2002, 17:18: Message edited by: Phelps ]
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
oops, wrong thread!!!!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend:
quote:Originally posted by Veers:
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: NCC-60591. That's the Farragut's registry. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NCC-60597, actually. The '1' was a misprint in the Encyclopedia. See the studio model.
Also, if you have the book "Star Trek: Action", a blueprint can be seen pinned up on the wall of Rick Sternbach's office (he designed the pods).
[ February 04, 2002, 19:10: Message edited by: Phelps ]
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Or here . Actually, this page has a lot of shuttles and some escape pods at the bottom.
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
Bernd: good work on the update. One comment: the Defiant's hatches do not break away -- they open and stay nicely open while the pods are leaving, so I suppose the pods can be retrieved and the hatches closed if that's an option.
I have media files of both destruction scenes (from www.maximumdefiant.com) in front of me. Look at this picture:
[ February 04, 2002, 19:42: Message edited by: Phelps ]
Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
Phelps: unknown type of shuttle in Defiant�s msd? Where??
[ February 05, 2002, 00:31: Message edited by: pIn'a' Sov ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: NCC-60591. That's the Farragut's registry.
NCC-60597, actually. The '1' was a misprint in the Encyclopedia. See the studio model.
Thanks for the pics.
-MMoM
And I wondered why the last digit was a 7 on the shuttle...
(And no, I will not continue with the quoting-game... )
[ February 05, 2002, 05:30: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
The shuttle in the Defiant MSD is simply the normal type-18 shuttlepod but shown at the wrong scale. I wouldn't bother counting it as something different.
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
Maybe -- doesn't look that similar to me. It would be good if it were. BTW, I'm seriously starting to doubt the wrong scale idea. After all, the shuttle is big, the bridge is too long, the hallways are too high -- only the people are consistent with 110m. Seems to me the MSD was conceived with the known 68m figure in mind.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Bernd: There's also the shuttle at Starbase 74 in "1110011010" or whatever. I saw an episode of "Reading Rainbow" in which Levar Burton was interviewing Rob Legato about his miniature work. Rob had models of the Aldean planetary cloaking device, and another model of this shuttle. He made the nacelles from disposable razors, with the bladed end cut off. Unfortunately, although you could see the model very well, the actual shot of the ship in TNG is too small to make out any details.
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Phelps: You're quite likely right about the Defiant MSD being for 69m - back in the good old days I used to take it as granted. Of course, there's no way the ship could still be that small after all we've seen (especially the dreaded main shuttlebay).
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Bernd--
--The guy's name was Sam Freedle. --There's 440 lifeboats on the Galaxy-class. Believe me, I've inked tiny little numbers on the model hatches enough times to know. That gives a total evac capacity of 1760, so the full crew plus 748, which is about 74% of the full crew.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
not counting how many people you can squeeze into all of those shuttles and the captain's yacht if need be.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Oh Great and Mighty Bernd,
Excellent work! I just have one question:
Where are the TMP shuttles? We saw them in the Enterprise shuttlebay, even in the old edition of TMP.
(They are basically the Surak shuttle-with-warp-sled without the warp sled.)
G2k
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Did we? I thought that matt painting was never used.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: Oh Great and Mighty Bernd,
Where are the TMP shuttles? We saw them in the Enterprise shuttlebay, even in the old edition of TMP. G2k
Actually, they weren't in the film. They were in Andy Probert's layout painting, which has been reproduced in various places, but the shuttle was never in the final mattes.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
A couple of changes are online since last night. Thanks for your comments. I have also included some obscure numbers of shuttles which are still a bit uncertain. Maybe I will remove them again when it turns out they were not visible.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I thought there was a shuttle visible in the bay when Scotty and Kirk toured the ship. The hangar was definitely open and you could see something inside. I just saw TMP at the cinema two weeks ago. Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Oh, you mean when they fly past the ship in that inspection pod? Yeah, when they go past the hangar doors from the outside, there is one workbee visible there. We see it again when the footage is reused in ST2.
But none of those Probert-designed smaller variants of the Vulcan courier are seen. Those are only visible in the interior matte painting that wasn't used in the final edit.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
On a different not, the Pontiac was visible in the episode. I remember checking it when I first read it in the TNGTM. I have to check the episode again, but I think it was a Type 15.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: I thought there was a shuttle visible in the bay when Scotty and Kirk toured the ship. The hangar was definitely open and you could see something inside. I just saw TMP at the cinema two weeks ago.
I just watched my old pan-and-scan copy of the original TMP.
In that version, the shot is fixed primarily on the cargo bay area, so I guess I just assumed that the often-shown matte painting (seen in books like "Art of Star Trek" and "Mr. Scott's Guide . . . ") was actually showing the rest of the shot.
Crap. :-)
There *is* a workbee in the shuttlebay. I thought there might be something larger behind it in the almost aft-on shot from the travel pod, but it's hard to tell on my wee-tee-vee.
This would serve to explain that idea everyone has always had (which perplexed me) about how the Surak was a Vulcan design . . . I always assumed it was just a regular Starfleet shuttlecraft with a regular Starfleet warp sled, one that just happened to be registered to some Vulcan authority.
Actually, though, given the fact that the docking port on the back matches the docking port on the travel pod precisely, and given that the warp drive technology appears to be decidedly non-Vulcan (i.e. not ring-warp, and using the "louvered-looking" engines a la the Enterprise in TMP), and given that the Enterprise had to have been in possession of something more than workbees, one could try to make the argument that what has commonly been thought of as a TMP shuttle (at least by me) *is* a TMP shuttle.
Hmmm . . . wonder if it's in the director's edition anywhere?
G2k
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: This would serve to explain that idea everyone has always had (which perplexed me) about how the Surak was a Vulcan design . . . I always assumed it was just a regular Starfleet shuttlecraft with a regular Starfleet warp sled, one that just happened to be registered to some Vulcan authority.
Actually, though, given the fact that the docking port on the back matches the docking port on the travel pod precisely, and given that the warp drive technology appears to be decidedly non-Vulcan (i.e. not ring-warp, and using the "louvered-looking" engines a la the Enterprise in TMP), and given that the Enterprise had to have been in possession of something more than workbees, one could try to make the argument that what has commonly been thought of as a TMP shuttle (at least by me) *is* a TMP shuttle.
Hmmm . . . wonder if it's in the director's edition anywhere?
G2k
Maybe it was a vulcan ship and 1701 did not have any shuttle in TMP. I mean - look at the matte painting. the bee alcoves are emty, no shuttle in the hangar bay area, no shuttle in the reapir dock below. They said the ship was not yat ready after the refit. This could mean the shuttles were not available at that time. (Maybe Tuesday? )
I have no problem with the Surak being a vulcan design. They started with the ship from Vulcan, and according to - what? TNG? - the Vulcans had their own star navy or whatever they call it. The merchant fleet. The T'Pau had an NSP-registry but was labeled S.S., what could mean the Surak was same type of vessel (of course only the category, not the class!). (On the other hand, 'class': If the T'Pau was an Apollo-class ship - I hate this - and it was the same Apollo-class Starfleet uses - despite the Gage-theory - the Surak could have been an old Starfleet design, just like the T'Pau. I have seen close-ups of the model, the hull markings were both vulcan and federation standard => english.)
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
I think a shuttle was mentioned in the ST:TMP comm-chatter. Lakia, IIRC.
[ February 06, 2002, 09:15: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
^^^^
Maybe Laika?
(Do we have a complete list of ships mentioned in the SE's comm chatter?)
I checked the episode again, 'In Theory'. Picard says 'Shuttle 3', that's all. We get a view of the exterior. First shot it looks as if the 'Pontiac'-thing could be possible, but there's another close-up and the name seems to be too short. Maybe 'Pike'. Obviously, we have to wait for the DVD. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
No, it it's not Laika. (Whether or not it's spelled Lakia is an open question. But that's how it sounds. "LAY-KEE-UH")
And as for ships in the comm chatter, here's what there is that can be heard:
-MMoM Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
^^^^
Thanks. Still working on my shiplist (nearly finished with 'P' ). But now I can include those. About the 'Shuttle that sounds like LAY-KEE-UH'; maybe this was another Surak-type ship? We'll probably never know, but both being long-range-shuttles? How many long-range-shuttle-classes are there? Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: Maybe it was a vulcan ship and 1701 did not have any shuttle in TMP. I mean - look at the matte painting. the bee alcoves are emty, no shuttle in the hangar bay area, no shuttle in the reapir dock below. They said the ship was not yat ready after the refit. This could mean the shuttles were not available at that time. (Maybe Tuesday? )
Oh, the idea that 1701 went out without shuttles is fine, but I just can't picture them being of the old Galileo-7 type.
quote:I have no problem with the Surak being a vulcan design. They started with the ship from Vulcan, and according to - what? TNG? - the Vulcans had their own star navy or whatever they call it. The merchant fleet. The T'Pau had an NSP-registry but was labeled S.S., what could mean the Surak was same type of vessel (of course only the category, not the class!).
What ship from Vulcan? I know of know observed Vulcan spacecraft before First Contact or so.
The ones we've seen . . . the ring-warp ship from Enterprise and the similar three ships from Unification . . . are both, well, ring-warpers.
quote:I have seen close-ups of the model, the hull markings were both vulcan and federation standard => english.)
That only shows Vulcan registry or the operation by a Vulcan authority, not Vulcan design.
Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
OH DAMN.
double post
[ February 06, 2002, 15:30: Message edited by: USS Vanguard ]
Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: -Cruiser Merrimack, NCC-1715
-MMoM
???
Where'd this come from? I was only aware of the first two.
[ February 06, 2002, 15:17: Message edited by: USS Vanguard ]
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
It's right after they you hear "long-range shuttle Lakia" and it's waaaay back in the background. Nobody even recognized it until the DVD came out, but I've since gone back and listened to the VHS and it's there too, just not as clear.
"NCC-1715" is fairly easy to hear if you listen very closely. The "Merrimack" part is more difficult because a louder bit of chatter overlaps right over it, but if you sit in a quiet room with the DVD turned up loud and put your ear to the speaker you can just make it out.
Incidentally, the U.S.S. Merrimack, NCC-1715, is another ship out of the Franz Joseph Technical Manual, a Bonhomme Richard-class heavy cruiser. (Of course, the class is not mentioned in TMP, the same as with the other vessels in the comm chatter taken from the Manual.)
-MMoM Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
and what was the message for the Merrimack? infact does anyone have a transcription? I'd like to know what these ships were up to for my shiplist. I know that the 2 Scouts were being told to rendezvous...but thats all.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
There was nothing that could be heard for the Merrimack, the message was completely faded out after you hear the registry number.
As for the Entente, I don't recall being able to hear much about it either, but I'll double check...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Any chance of someone making a WAV/MP3 of that, so we can all hear about the Merrimac(k)?
[ February 06, 2002, 19:35: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
By the way, I drove through Merrimack yesterday. All the signs had the k at the end.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: By the way, I drove through Merrimack yesterday. All the signs had the k at the end.
Merrimac, the town in Massachusetts?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I went on a road trip with Leanne on Tuesday because she quit her job and needed an ID to apply for the new job she's getting but she needs her birth certificate to get her new ID so we had to drive to the town hall of the town she was born in, which is Lowell, so I let her drive my car (Which is a sign of how I feel for her because only her, Derek and my Dad have ever driven the Captain's Yacht Mk 2). We packed a lunch and made a day of it (I know an hour's drive isnt a road trip.. I'm a Rhode Islander). For whatever reason, she got on 146 instead of 95 because she wanted to grab 495 there, but we missed it somewhow, and we had to regroup to get over to Lowell. By the time we got there it was after the records office or whatever it was closed, so we didnt even stop. She was pretty stoned at that point and didnt want to drive anymore so we switched to drive home but I got on 3 north and forgot to get onto 495 south (because I wasnt quite all there either). And before we knew it we were in Nashua, and I commented about the spelling of Merrimack on all the signs, and that we had been discussing it in relation to a Nebula-class starship. Blank stare. But anywho we stopped in NH, bought some local papers as souvenirs, ate at Bickfords (where they don't like blue-haired kids from out of town) and shopped a little, free from the oppression of a 7% sales tax like in our home state. Live Free or Die! Hey, license plates are made by prisoners in jails, right? How do the guys in NH feel.. I mean they are locked up and forced to print the phrase 'Live Free or Die' over and over and over. They must feel like crap. Then we drove home, listened to a lot more music, smoked a lot more and bonded for two and a half hours. Wow. Then we had to pick up Malory at her father's and we took her to Leanne's and went for a bikeride to tire her out for bed, then we went to Thayer to hang out for a bit and tell everyone of our trip. I bought some groceries for Le and then dropped her off, and went home 10 hours late from school.
What was I talking about again? Oh yeah. New Hampshire.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
I just looked at the finished page and have a few things to say...
1. In DS9's "The Search," Odo and Kira were onboard a Type-15 shuttlecraft which isn't listed. 2. In the Type-18 shuttlecraft design, there is an aft access hatch. Look at the DS9 Tech Manual and see the two drawings that it has of the shuttle. 3. The hull plates of the Defiant Class that covers the escape pods act in the same way as the Intrepid Class; they open outward and close. Most likely the ASRV's can be retrieved. 4. I would think that the acronym ASRV would be the formal name to the escape pods or lifeboats, which can be considered slang terms fo the ASRV. 5. There is a picture of the Voyager Aeroshuttle online somewhere...so please post it. 6. Picard's yacht on the Enterprise-E is named Cousteau... the same name which the Type-15 shuttlecraft from the Aires has. 7. The Sovereign Class yacht was modified from an original version of a recessed foward window that would make it easy to fit under the torp lanchers. Rick Berman decided to have it changed so the yacht would look "cooler." 8. The shuttle in the matte painting of the Enterprise-D inside Starbase 74 is suppose to be a Type-7 and not a new design. 9. I've heard somewhere a long time ago that along with the names mentioned being in the display of the shuttlebay of TNG were other names such at Berman, Pillar, Braga, Justman, and Roddenberry. I believe that in "Cause and Effect" that Ed Miarecki named his shuttles that he built after his bosses. That may explain somewhat why the Micromachines I've gotten had shuttles named Pillar, Berman, and Justman.
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
I remembered another thing: the Enterprise-E shuttle is called Type-11 in Eaves' sketches, IIRC.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Michael_T: I just looked at the finished page and have a few things to say...
4. I would think that the acronym ASRV would be the formal name to the escape pods or lifeboats, which can be considered slang terms fo the ASRV.
True, to a point. As far as I know, though, "ASRV" has never been said or shown on-screen, unless someone has some evidence of non-visible signage.
quote: 5. There is a picture of the Voyager Aeroshuttle online somewhere...so please post it.
From within the show?
quote: 8. The shuttle in the matte painting of the Enterprise-D inside Starbase 74 is suppose to be a Type-7 and not a new design.
No way, dude. That nasty thing is so not a Type-7.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
The pic of Voyager's Aeroshuttle is from the Starship Spotter book and since it covers two pages due to the layout is really a pain to scan and recombine to make it look presentable online.
And Kira and Odo were not on a type 15 shuttle. The interior may look like one, but the shuttle exterior was clearly seen in the episode.
[ February 08, 2002, 13:38: Message edited by: Dat ]
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
What? It was a Type-15 and the same one built for TNG's first season. It is the shuttlepod from the episode with two Captain Picards. Let's try to find a screencap. And that shuttle from that matte painting is suppose to be the Type-7, just that the physical model was altered with the same reason the matte painting of the Ambassador Class was altered.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
It was a Defiantzhuttle, Michael.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I concur - I watched the episode last week.
Mark
[ February 08, 2002, 19:31: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Agreed, I distinctly remember an exterior shot of the Defiantized pod on the surface of the planet.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
maybe you are confused because the interior of the Defiant pod is the same set used for the TNG type pod, even though the exteriors shown were different? And it was built TNG season 2, not season 1
[ February 09, 2002, 06:50: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
The shuttle from the 'two-Picards-episode' was the El-Baz. There's a picture in the factfiles.
[Edit] D'oh! Fixed it. Or better: uploaded it. Copy and paste. Credits go to the guy at stgn who found it. It was just a lucky incident if saw it.
[ February 09, 2002, 15:50: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Kyle, apparently you've got to be registered to that board just to view the thread or the pic in that thread. And no one is going to register just to look at the pic. You've got to find a way to get a copy of the pic from somewhere else.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Are you sure... when Kira and Odo were on the surface of the planet, they went back to the shuttle that looked exactly like the El Baz.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Certain.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Are you absolutely sure? The only time I saw the Type-18 was when Kira and Sisko were in it during that astroid episode with the three Cardassian scientists. There was a shot with Odo and Kira next to the El Baz shuttle in the Search Part 2 that I remember seeing.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
There were two different kinds of shots of the shuttle at the surface in "The Search, pt 2".
1) Since there was no full-size mock-up of the "type 18", we were shown a scale model only, filmed against a scale model of the terrain, much the same way we saw landed runabouts in "Vortex" and "Heart of Stone". This was definitely the curvaceous type 18 and not the old TNG model. (IIRC, TPTB even cleverly juxtaposed an image of Odo and Kira walking on the image of the shuttle scale model, something they had not done for "Vortex" or "Heart of Stone".)
2) In close-ups, Kira was shown sitting inside the shuttle, fiddling with the sensors, and the starboard gullwing door was open. This was naturally the "type 15" mock-up being used, but we never saw a glimpse of the exterior, so we couldn't tell if this really was type 15 or something else. And the gullwing of the type 15 mock-up nicely matched a similar feature on the type 18 scale model...
The type 15 mock-up has served as the cockpit of other craft as well - most notably of the Maquis-operated interceptors seen in "The Maquis, pt 2".
Timo Saloniemi
[ February 11, 2002, 22:25: Message edited by: Timo ]
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
No, there is this scene with Kira and Odo going back to the shuttle to try to contact anyone on subspace comm channels. Kira discovers that something is blocking the signal and she and Odo head out from that point to the location where the blocking signal is originating. There is a view of a Type-15 and not the Type-18 that she sits in and gets out of during that shot.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
One thing about the Farragut-Sydneys before I go to bed: Before the crash-landed saucer is destroyed by the Veridian-sun-shockwave, we get a short outdoor-view of the ship. There are several people standing on the saucer. However, there are also shuttles. Since the rescue ships haven't arrived at that point, those are Enterprise's shuttles. Interestingly, there's a Sydney-thing among them.
There was a picture of it in the movie-sketchbook (got it today, fascinating stuff, BTW). I'll do another scan tomorrow for someone from the TrekBBS, if you don't have the book I can scan the picture. (page 27, upper right corner. The small one.)
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: One thing about the Farragut-Sydneys before I go to bed: Before the crash-landed saucer is destroyed by the Veridian-sun-shockwave, we get a short outdoor-view of the ship. There are several people standing on the saucer. However, there are also shuttles. Since the rescue ships haven't arrived at that point, those are Enterprise's shuttles. Interestingly, there's a Sydney-thing among them.
There was a picture of it in the movie-sketchbook (got it today, fascinating stuff, BTW). I'll do another scan tomorrow for someone from the TrekBBS, if you don't have the book I can scan the picture. (page 27, upper right corner. The small one.)
Interesting...it actually looks like the same shot that they use later, but with the camera fixed & some of the foreground shuttles removed.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Scan, anyone?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Just to be contrary, I must point out that a rescue ship *could* have arrived at that point already, even if we weren't shown its arrival...
Anyhow, if there is a Sydney-thing stored aboard the saucer, then the internal structure of the main bay has to be different from the blueprints - else the Sydney-barge couldn't get out, or would block the entranceway.
Alternately, the barge only emerges through the sunroof, not through the aft door of the bay.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
It's an Executive Shuttle, not a Sydney Class that was ontop of the saucer.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
And yes, those are no Sydneys, but the model is the same. Looking at that picture, it seems they could store a dozen in the main shuttle bay.
[ February 14, 2002, 10:43: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
A Sydney-class starship would figure more than half length of the Galaxy's saucer.. I'd hate to see one of those land and squish all the people, androids and cats on the surface of the saucer.
I just saw the scene and I think the perfect topping to Generations would be showing all the people walking around the saucer, then pull back to show the Apes spying them through binoculars saying "Shit.. there goes the neighborhood..."
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Did that scene even appear in the film? I don't remember seeing any shuttles on the saucer before the rescue ships came...
Could be wrong though. But it might just be a publicity still?
BTW, (and no, I'm not trying to argue for the ridiculous notion that the Exec Shuttle and the Sydney are the same size, but all the same I'm curious...) what ever was used to determine the Sydney's size? IIRC, the only thing considered were the nacelles, making an assumption that they were the same scale as the Connie and Miranda. However, as seen with ships like the Curry, this may not always be the case...
-MMoM Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Um.. the nacelles are correctly scaled with the Constitution refit bridge module. Pretty much all the refurbishing was done from the Miranda mold (or a Miranda model anyway). Besides those two obvious features (unless you'd rather argue that it was just a similarly shaped scaled-bridge), we also have a partial deck count based on the many windows Mr. Jein put on the model.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The bridge module on the real sydney is not exactly the Constitution one, but a more rounded docking port-less modification, perhaps closer to the Excelsior version. It does help establish the scale, though.
And there is a flight control station just above the cavernous shuttlebay at the stern. If we don't want to suppose that Starfleet uses Balok and his First Federation friends exclusively for manning this facility, we get a minimum size for the ship. And that size is in agreement with the idea that those are Constitution nacelles.
The "Sydney-thing", aka the "executive shuttle", is more elusive size-wise, but the saucertop scenes would suggest a 20m craft or a bit larger - roughly on par with Danube runabouts. Perhaps this is the preceding generation of runabouts?
Is the "shuttle" capable of warp? The model has two tucked-in and rear-facing silver-painted Galaxy ramscoops under its hindquarters, which one could interpret as analogous to those silver hemispheres at the aft ends of NCC-1701 and TOS shuttle nacelles. So perhaps the "shuttle" has inboard warp nacelles.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I wonder why they didn't have the main shuttlebay open?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Easy - they didn't have the power to open the door. So they simply transported all the shuttles out. As we know, a transporter runs on a hand phaser battery if necessary.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Alternatively, some people got out of the stardrive section via the shuttlebays, or even the escape pods, and had just landed.
Mark
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Ok, then the larger Executive Shuttles came where?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
There was only one, and i'm betting it coudla fit inside shuttlebay three. We've never seen the third bay in its entirety, unless you're counting the blueprints.
Anyway, I think we're arguing a moot point here - I'm almost certain that the scan doesn't represent the final shot seen in the movie. Among reasons, there's no one visible on the saucer. Does anyone have a DVD to at least review against this scan? I'm under the impression that this is some sort of interm or test shot done at ILM while they're figuring out how to blow up the planet.
Mark
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Yeah, that's what I think too. I sure as hell don't remember there being shuttles on the saucer until the end.
-MMoM Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
I seem to recall seeing the shuttles on saucer scene when Generations was on TV (Fox I think). But maybe it was just the regular shuttles. I can't remember now.
[ February 15, 2002, 20:02: Message edited by: USS Vanguard ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I just checked my VHS copy, there are no shuttles on the Enterprise sauser when the shock wave hits, It looks like that pic was a sfx test.
However the argument as to weither or not an executive shuttle can fit inside a Galaxy is rather mute because the Farragut has an identical main shuttlebay (AFAWK) and she seams to have two of them.
It is a little irritating that the Enterprise's shuttlebay is closed since we know that at least one of her shuttles survived the crash (anyone who has seen the cut Hawkins scene may remember that it was scorched & smoking). Perhaps they used the Emergency engress doors?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: However the argument as to weither or not an executive shuttle can fit inside a Galaxy is rather mute because the Farragut has an identical main shuttlebay (AFAWK) and she seams to have two of them.
LOL! I'm glad somebody finally realized this...
-MMoM Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
Well, we also have to keep in mind that the Farragut has a pretty large hanger integrated into the stern of the secondary hull.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Really? Forgive me for being ignorant, but I'd never heard that before.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
As you can see, the door is about the same height as the main shuttlebay (if not taller). I'm guessing the large door/panel above the normal garage-type door is the egress door of this "Shuttlebay 2."
[ February 16, 2002, 19:45: Message edited by: Ace ]
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
I just saw the pic in Yahoo... Vanguard that was shown on Fox except that it was during the end after Picard was rescued by the shuttle. And people were along it. I think there were two pics; one with shuttles and one with people. The one with people was used during the scene where the planet and the Enterprise-D saucer was destroyed. The shuttle scene was most likely matted ontop of the people scene for the rescue portion of the movie.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ace: Well, the bay could go in pretty deep for all we know...
Here's a nice picture of the USS Leed's stern (NOTE: The picture is supposed to remain at starshipmodeler.com, so no reposting on a webpage please).
As you can see, the door is about the same height as the main shuttlebay (if not taller). I'm guessing the large door/panel above the normal garage-type door is the egress door of this "Shuttlebay 2."
I don't know if its a good idea to have 2 large shuttlebays on one ship, either way I'm sure the exec would fit inside both of them. Not so long ago someone here did an internal scal comparison of the Galaxy shuttle bay to see if the attack fighters would fit inside, as a side note it was found that a runabout can just about make it. Since the exec shuttle is just a little bit smaller than a runabout then it would definatly fit, after all the E-D is know so have storeed at least 3 Danubes on one occasion that we know of and there is the possibility that it maintained one of it's own for a while afterwards.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
A runabout can barely fit between the central column and the cargo lifts to either side, so technically a runabout *should* be able to park anywhere there's space. Assuming an exec shuttle is less wide than one, you can fit plenty in there.
Mark
[ February 17, 2002, 09:28: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
What's wrong about having two large shuttlebays? The E-D's shuttlebay 2 seems so small.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
And what if we remove the large central phylon? Maybe it's part of the war-refit program? (You know, nacelle phasers and so on...)
Can we be sure that shuttlebay 1 of a Nebula really is a shuttlebay? I mean - can you imagine a worse place to put your shuttlebay if there's a large phylon only 50 meters behind the door? Either they have very good pilots (speaking of security they probably wont risk a shuttle accident every now and then) or the thing is just a big cargo bay. Maybe you could remove the emergency bay doors at the top and replace them with DS9-like elevators. And the small bay at the rear end? I always assumed they store a Runabout there. Or two. Or a larger craft we haven't seen yet, the equivalent of the captain's yacht (the original configuration of the Nebula had none, as far as I know).
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Pylon".
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I doubt they would remove the central core as that's were the turbolifts pass through from the other decks and would give easy access to the shuttlebay. As for the Nebbie's yacht, all variants (including the Nebbie study models) had them on the saucer underside below deck 16 as the saucer is pretty much nearly identical from the Galaxy's saucer.
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
You'd have to be a pretty bad pilot to hit the Nebula's pod support pylon. It's not like they launch the things out like an aircraft carrier...
As for the second shuttlebay, I think the pictures show it's not that small of a bay.
[ February 17, 2002, 21:28: Message edited by: Ace ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: "Pylon".
Yes, mom.
(Seriously, I think the latin word is Phylon, not pylon. Allthough my latin is not the best anymore, at least something survived all those endless lessons. )
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Well regardless of the Latin word, the English spelling is pylon. I once tried sprinkling my posts with bits and pieces of dead languages, but to no avail. The ladies were unimpressed.
BTW i find the concept of replacing a Nebula or Galaxy's upper cargo bay doors with runabout elevators quite sensible..
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I don't know what the Latin word is, but the Greek word is "pylon" (pi-upsilon-lambda-omega-nu).
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Considering that the only place in the world where Latin is spoken as a language is the Vatican, it seems of little consequence.
-MMoM Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: Considering that the only place in the world where Latin is spoken as a language is the Vatican, it seems of little consequence.
-MMoM
OK, OK. But why did I learn this 'dead language' for four years? I hate my life.
So the central p(h)ylon can't be removed. Shuttlebay 1 is 'only' two decks tall. Maybe they could do it the aircraft-carrier-way. Using several decks below the flight deck for storage. Who needs dolphins in large aquariums?
And I don't buy the theory that pilots could easily navigate around the pod section. Because we know for sure the standard pod (the triangular thing sitting on one central phylon) is not the only possible pod. What about the Phoenix? They had to fly through the two phylons below the dish above the stardrive. And if they'd set fire to the pod we could use it as a circus attraction. And I'm sure there are some other variants, too.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
um.. they could not fly towards it at all.. they could fly out of the bay and turn left or right, and head into open space.. there is a fair amount of space for that. (granted the whole point of the shuttlebay should to be not to point at another part of the ship, but the nebula is a kitbash..)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I don't think they speak Latin in the Vatican. They haven't done Catholic masses in Latin since the '60s, after all...
And as for learning a "dead" language for four years... If you know Latin, you have a much easier time picking up on Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, and a few other languages.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Well, I don't know if they carry on casual conversations with it, but the Vatican is listed as the one place on earth where Latin still exists as a spoken language.
And of course, learning Latin can have its benefits as you mentioned (though most people learning it probably already know at least one language derived from it, which serves as a far better stepping stone to others than raw Latin itself), but essentially it's useless when it comes to direct communication with other people. Actually, that can probably be debated, but this doesn't really seem like the place.
Anyway, if one goes around saying "phylons" people are only going to laugh, and gradually become rather annoyed...
-MMoM Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
"but essentially it's useless when it comes to direct communication with other people. Actually, that can probably be debated, but this doesn't really seem like the place."
Mildly entertaining anecdote which I partially remember:
My old Latin professor went on a trip to Europe several years back, primarily to Rome but they stopped over in Greece. He was in Athens, Greece at one point, and had decided to roam about and explore on his own.
While doing so, he bumps into a Frenchman and an Italian at a museum, both professors I assume. They'd just met, and were both trying to use their knowledge of ancient Greek to understand what the hell the tour guide is saying about the ancient Greek things around them, and in the process are speaking ancient Greek to each other since neither knew the other's language. My professor didn't know Italian or French, and at this point knew only a little ancient Greek, but not enough to keep up, so he tried Latin. They both knew it and so they all converted over to that for the conversation.
It sounds like a joke ("So a Frenchman, an Italian, and an American walk into a Greek museum and start speaking Latin . . . "), but he swore up and down it was true.
G2k
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
He just tells that story to get you to listen and do your latin studies in the hope that some day it will help you communicate with another human being.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grokca: He just tells that story to get you to listen and do your latin studies in the hope that some day it will help you communicate with another human being.
I'd have thought so, but I overheard him in a bar retelling the tale.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I don't think they speak Latin in the Vatican. They haven't done Catholic masses in Latin since the '60s, after all...
And as for learning a "dead" language for four years... If you know Latin, you have a much easier time picking up on Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, and a few other languages.
I learned both Italian and French for two years. It really helped understanding the italian language, but it didn't make french much easier. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
OK so weve established you can't spell and some European nations have languages that are similar, and religions too. Great.
Bernd.. on the subject of shuttles. The Enterprise 1701 actually had three shuttles Galileo: Galileo NCC-1701/7 -- destroyed in "The Galileo Seven" Galileo NCC-1701/7 -- destroyed in "The Immunity Syndrome" Galileo II NCC-1701/7 -- seen in "The Way to Eden"
Apparently after the first was destroyed it was replaced with a new one of the same name and registry, but after that second one, it was decided to relabel it Galileo II, probably because they realized they would keep losing them because they were cursed.
Me, I'd rather take the Rio Grande anyday...
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Um, but the Rio Grande was destroyed early on in DS9. Seems they forgot about that.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
please specify.. the Rio Grande made it through all 7 seasons?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Wild guess is that the RG model was used to stand in for a different runabout that got destroyed. But I don't know if that's true, or if it's what he's talking about.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
The Rio Grande had never been destroyed. There is some confusion about the ships in DS9's 7th season (one Runabout with no established name and some runabout-appearances where no name has been given), but the Rio Grande survived them all. Yangtzee and Ganges were destroyed during the first two seasons. I think the last known appearance of the Rio Grande was 'Treachery, Faith and the Great River', but I think it would have been a nice touch if the Rinabout carying Sisko to Bayor at the end of WYLB was the Rio Grande, too. Besides, what was the name of the Runabout seen (and destroyed) in 'The ship'? I think it has been established that DS9 must have had 4 Runabouts since season 4 because the Rio Grande and Rubicon were still in use at that time and the Yukon was seen prior the episode, too and destroyed in 'By Inferno's Light'. The only possibility is the Volga, introdiuced in late 4th season, but still there has to be another Runabout because later, in 'By Inferno's Light', there were four of them.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
No, I remember that Rio Grande had gone boom early on in S1 (& NO, I'm NOT thinking of Yangtzee Kiang) & that when it'd shown up again later on I was all "buh?" Seems they glossed that over as well.
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
Um, there's no listing of it being destroyed. I think it was just a funny thing that the Rio Grande survived throughout the run of DS9.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Shik, do you remember the episode title or at least what was happening in the episode?
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Wait, wasn't that the Ganges and the the Rio Grande?
Wasn't the runabout that Sisko took the Rio Grande in WYLB?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Just curious - if the Rio Grande is the 'safer' ship ;o) what ship did Ben put Jake on during the DS9 evac in "The Circle"!?! There might be a conspiracy here people! ;o)
Also, I know that there are SIX runabout pads, we've heard a-f mentioned throughout the show... we seem to ALWAYS here about "Runabout Pad C" but anyway - this might point to more than three runabouts - which would make sense - why stop at three... it was just that there were three initially.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I'd assume that one or two bays might be put aside for guest ships or all those workbees and whatnot. We even hear the DS9 contingent includes a shuttlepod in one episode, although I forget which one. (When commenting on how few problems he has had that day, Sisko cheerfully says a pod is missing at some planet of the Bajoran system. I can only assume the pod was stolen on the surface when the driver was elsewhere, or else Sisko should look MUCH more worried, since there would be a man missing, and probably in mortal danger!)
Then again, as we see in "In the Pale Moonlight", a bay has plenty of room for both a runabout and a guest ship. There could easily be a dozen runabouts stored aboard the station at a time.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Well, according to the DS9TM there are three small and three large bays (the larger type was seen in 'In the Pale Moonlight', for example.) They'll definitely leave one or two bays to the visitors of the station. But all together, they could store 9 Runabouts. When the Romulan guy arrived in ItPM, we saw a Runabout parking behind his (cool looking, BTW) shuttle.
And 'Quark's Treansure' had its own bay, too (the shot was later reused for the episode where the ferengi try to rescue moogie as Brunt's ship.) And there was another runabout destroyed in 'Empok Nor', also not listed on any chart. With the ship from 'The Ship' (another curious ship, as I mentioned above), the possibility of haveing more than three, maybe more than four ships at a time is more than possible. But then there is the question why they only used the 3 shuttles to defend the station in 'In Purgatory's Shadow' + the one (Rubicon?) used by Garak and Worf in the gamma quadrant. The only thing for sure it the fact they only had three runabouts on DS9 until 'The Way of the Warrior'. (Seen in several episodes, 'The Maquis', for example, and mentioned in dialogue, as far as I remember.) Maybe Venture brought some further Runabouts.
[ February 20, 2002, 05:00: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I suspect Sisko took a close look at his attrition figures and decided to order wholesale the next time... And then the attrition went down because everybody started hogging the Rio Grande flight hours, so Sisko was up to his armpits with Runabouts. The solution? More up-yours missions to the Gamma quadrant, to see if the Jem'Hadar were *still* pissed off about UFP trespassing. And a convenient layover (monthly ashtray cleaning or something) for the Rio Grande for the duration.
One wonders if there are more facilities for small craft on the station than just the six Runabout bays. Where did that big cargo door open in "Dramatis Personae"? It might have been on the inner wall of the outer ring, or perhaps on the wall of one of the conneting spokes, since you could see a pylon when the door opened. The station exterior has few suitable fixtures to match this door, but if there are more such doors, one could use the cargo bays as shuttle hangars easily enough.
Internal stowage of small ships would also help explain all those cases when we hear there are multiple ships docked, and the exterior view shows one at best. Those others can't ALL be docked in the single pylon or exterior port that remains out of camera view.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That's not bad. We know that some people get about in ships that can easily fit in the DS9 cargo bay set (time travelers, Klingon traders, Bajoran solar sailors, etc.), which probably wouldn't fit well with the docking adaptors. Odds are that a few could be somewhere on the station at any given time.
Mark
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:...monthly ashtray cleaning or something...
Don't let Nick Meyer catch wind of that... Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phelps: My guess would be 1701/7, since it was an injoke and couldn't be seen up-close.
Answering this question from the first page, the answer is that the TOS shuttle from the TMP DVD shot is the shuttlecraft Conrad, out of Starbase 6. Who said so? Daren said so. Also, the alleged "other" TOS shuttle from the far left of the master shot is not a shuttle, but another air tram. Daren said so too.
Mark
[ February 22, 2002, 00:23: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
quote:Originally posted by Phelps: My guess would be 1701/7, since it was an injoke and couldn't be seen up-close.
Answering this question from the first page, the answer is that the TOS shuttle from the TMP DVD shot is the shuttlecraft Conrad, out of Starbase 6. Who said so? Daren said so. Also, the alleged "other" TOS shuttle from the far left of the master shot is not a shuttle, but another air tram. Daren said so too.
Mark
There is definitely another one at the far left. Or is it... that can't be... but on the other hand... Uh! I'm confused. But OK.
The Conrad you say? I wonder how they got that thing to earth. A proof they have warp capability? Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Conrad?
Named after...?
Please say Pete Conrad. I do hope you asked him.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Who's Daren?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
He's probably one of the Foundation Imaging guys who helped do the new sfx for TMP. He's probaby on the third "making of" feature on the dvd. And if any of you paid any attention to them, you'd notice that Mojo and Bonchune is there as well
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yes - Daren Dochterman's his name. I don't know if it's Pete Conrad the shuttle was named after.
As for why it's there in the first place, who knows? Per at least "The Menagerie", we can surmise that the TOS shuttle has some sort of limited warp capability.. I'm guessing that it's some sort of specialized longer-range shuttle (or perhaps with a contemporary warp sled left somewhere in orbit) that was used to courier someone from SB6 to Earth.
Mark
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
It's named after William Conrad & is powered by pork.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Does the Conrad have a registry?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Hopefully not, being as it's assigned to a Starbase. (The whole NCC-K7 thing [and Franz Joseph's diagrams] notwithstanding...)
-MMoM Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike: Does the Conrad have a registry?
How else are you supposed to know it's from a Starbase?
It'll probably be SB-6/2 or something.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
From a starbase? Could it not be from Spacedock?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Because this Daren chap said it was Starbase 6, I suppose.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
canonically base shuttles do have registries, beginning with a SB, SC or SD prefix [starbase, starfleet command and spacedock] (Janeway's shuttle in 'Endgame' was SC-4 and there have been many variations on SD inside spacedock, but im hardpressed to quote exactly. Im not sure if SB is real or im just saying it because i saw it here. Lookup time: was there any writing on the Verne (shuttle from Relay Station 47) in 'Aquiel'? the shuttle seen flying by Barclay's building (the SF comm center or whatever)?
[ February 25, 2002, 13:19: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
SD was used for the exec shuttle in ST:VI "SD103"
That can either be interperated as "Spacedock shuttle 103" or "Spacedock one - shuttle 03" not that it's terrible relevant.
Personally I go for the latter option.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
The Verne had RS-47, as far as I know. Not sure about Barclays shuttle, but I suppose it had some sort of registry. As for the Dalkins or whatever it is called, I think we don't have any luck here. I just checked the scene. There isn't much you can see, we see the shuttle from behind heading towards the station. There is a registry painted on the hull, five digits, and the first number looks like 7. 74, maybe. I think it's the Cochrane, no even relabeled for that scene. 74656.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Was the Dawkins mentioned in dialogue?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Yes. 'Shuttlecraft Dawkins to Jupiter Station', the first sentence. Or something very similar. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
The Cochrane? i thought i was seeing a type 6.. in 'Pathfinder'
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
^^^^
'Threshold', the type 9 or 12 or whatever you call the speedboat-class. That was the first appearance of the Cochrane. We never had a Type 6 on Voyager. And maybe you're cunfusing the episodes; 'Pathfinder' was the one where Troi visited Barclay because of his problems at work. He wanted to establish contact with MIDAS but no one believed it would work. 'Life Line' was the Jupiter station-episode.
Edit: Had to edit the title, sorry, confused it, too. 'Life Line' is the correct episode, 'Inside Man' was the Ferengi-nanoprobe show.
[ February 25, 2002, 15:17: Message edited by: Cpt. Kyle Amasov ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I'm not confusing anything.. you keep thinking im talking about your episode. In Pathfinder, Barclay worked in the building where he was running the holo-Voyager, and he had to run away from the security dudes Cmdr Hawkins sent after him to activate the MIDAS array. when they showed an exterior shot, it was a big office building with the Starfleet logo built into it. A shuttle flew by, and it didnt look like the speedboat. seemed type 6 to me
[ February 25, 2002, 15:20: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It was a type-6 that flew past Starfleet Communications HQ (in Hong Kong?, I heard somewhere that is where the real building is) The type-9 was the one that took Barclay to Jupiter Station.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
We have had a type 6 on Voyager. It was the Sacajawea. I think the episode was Coda, but I'm not sure. Other than that the only other time we saw a type 6 was the NCC-71325 shuttle from the pilot episode (where some say it was also labeled as NCC-74656) and an episode where Tuvok crash landed on a planet where the people grew backwards. They used the type 6 shuttle set (we saw the exterior with the type 6 shuttle nacelles), but I think it was supposed to be a type 8 shuttle.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
There was a type 6 in "Demon" as well - which is a bit surprising, since the scenes didn't really call for a full-sized prop, so they could have used the type 8 model there.
And yes, every time they needed a full-sized crashed shuttle, they of course used the type 6 prop. I haven't seen "Coda", but in "Innocence" (the one with Tuvok and the backward-aging "kids") there was no pretense that the shuttle would be type 8.
I also think that "Raven" had a series of scenes where a shuttle magically transformed between types, but that's another one I haven't seen.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Actually, that was "Coda". When flying it was Type-8 recycled footage, when crashing it was a Type-6 in opticals and on the ground.
Wasn't a Type-6 also seen in "Parallax"?
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Thanks for the correction. Most of "Coda" was a dream sequence anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter that much... "Parallax" AFAIK only used the type 8 model, as there was no need there for a full-sized prop. Of course, the cockpit was type 6, but that doesn't count sicne there was no type 8 cockpit. But I think that towards the later seasons, the type 9/12/whatever interior was sometimes used for type 8 shuttles as well... ("Alice" would be the final watershed, since after that there wouldn't BE a type 6 cockpit any more!)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
What was the name of the episode where Neelix died and realized there's no life after death? I the end, he planned to commit suicide.
Whatever it is, it showed the type 6 shuttle for the last time. I know it because I watched the episode two hours ago. The interior was still type 8-diagrams and everything, but the exterior shots inside the nebula where they wanted to collect protomatter showed a type 6, definitely. And it was CGI (the 'used' texture made it look dirty and old, damn fine work, BTW). It had the strange naming scheme only Voyager used so far (below the cockpit window, we usually had only the name in TNG-times. Voyager established the name/number/mothership scheme they use for this one, too.) and it definitely had a name. Maybe this one was supposed to represent the shuttle that brought Stadi and Paris to the ship in 'Caretaker'? At least one this becomes more evident with this new 'old' appearance: the shuttle replicator was obviously only used to replicate the type 9-shuttles. Soon after they had used some of them we never saw them again (season 2/3). Maybe this one was just a reserve.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
An addendum to this thread: Several pages ago Shik said the Rio Grande was destroyed, early on in DS9...
Well he was right.. in the holosimulation of a Jem'Hadar attack in the beginning of "The Search," i believe the Rio Grande was destroyed.
[ April 09, 2002, 11:59: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Huh?
I have the episode on tape, and I don't recall anyone mentioning a destroyed runabout during the holosimulation or even one happening. In the simulation, Sisko, Dax, O'Brien, and Bashir take the Rio Grande against orders to destroy the wormhole and do so, but soon afterwards are awaken by the female Founder on Odo's order. The Rio Grande was never destroyed.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Yes Voyager had several Type 6 shuttles, especially during Raven where Seven's shuttle morphed from a Type 6 to a Type 8.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
I don't think they will respond to that, Mike...the thread is nearly two months old.
[ April 09, 2002, 19:36: Message edited by: Veers ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
it always stuck in my head that Shik said that without offering any explanation..
BTW, in the opening of the show there was a holosuite simulation of Kira and O'Brien simulating an attack on the station to see how they would fare against the Jemhadar. Im not talking about the Vorta simulation in part II. I dont have the tape, but the novelization follows it word for word (in that part anyway) so im assuming the line from the book is also a line from the show, where O'Brien says the Rio Grande has been destroyed (offscreen, which is why you wouldnt have seen it). if it wasnt there, then sue me
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
No, the line wasn't there in the aired episode, so the Rio Grande still wasn't destroyed. Won't sue you though...would be a waste of time, effort, and money.
Anyway, seeing as these are only simulations, it doesn't matter much with continuity.
[ April 09, 2002, 20:09: Message edited by: Dat ]
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
IIRC it was the Rio Grande that crash landed in "The Ascent". But since Quark and Odo survived the crash, I always assumed the runabout was salvageable.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Was not.
Mark
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
"The Search" was S3. I said early S1. And I know the difference between "reality" & a holosim.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
There was little in the way of runabout crashes *OR* holosuite episodes in S1. Apart from "Battle Lines", only "Q-Less" involved any major damage to a runabout. And that one (the Ganges) didn't quite explode. The Rio Grande did get her paint scratched in "Vortex", if one wants to count that.
Can you give any more hints about this supposed loss of the Rio Grande?
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