However, these ships were not identified in the dialogue, and they certainly don't appear to be quite-as-obviously-Starfleet as those scans of yours would suggest. Certainly, they're not labeled with names or registries.
Where'd those come from, anyway, Spikey?
-MMoM
P.S.
BTW, those screencaps are from this page at the Guardian of Forever.
-MM Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I'm trying to find images from "Timetrap".. the ships seen there were vaguely Federation, not the detailed ones in the diagrams, which seem to have most of the details made up by the draftsman.
[ ok, so someone posted the same thing as me while i was writing ]
[ March 12, 2002, 15:44: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
My goodness... talk about designs that are out in left field...
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Hey, I remember these ships. They were drawn by a member of the GEC (a defunct tech fan group of which I used to be a member) and first appeared in the GEC fanzine (Logbook) 3 or 4 years ago. The author, Mark Wilson (IIRC) had a project to draw all the ships from the Delta Triangle. He made up all the detailing and wrote some background histories. He's also did some shuttlecarrier prints, I think.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
[ March 12, 2002, 15:56: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The first pic looks like an early version of the "Tamarian" vessel from Darmok - of course reused profusely elsewhere (I don't even know if that was its debut episode?).
[ March 12, 2002, 19:11: Message edited by: AndrewR ]
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
It was. It's been seen at least twice since on DS9, and at least once more on Voyager (actually, I think it served as a Vidiian ship at one point). Quite unfortunate, since as Trek guest ship designs go it's relatively distictive and easy to pick out.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I don't think the old veteran was a Vidiian at any point, but she did serve as the ship of those veil-wearing weirdos who became kids when they grew old, in VOY "Innocence". The ship had blue nacelle glow there, but was otherwise identical to the earlier appearance in DS9 "Armageddon Game" where the glow was red... Interestingly enough, a matching shuttle design was created for "Innocence".
The Tamarian ship did appear for the first time in "Darmok". (In later appearances it gained prominent dorsal and ventral fins on the nacelles.) However, it appears that the ship is just a modification of the Talarian warship from "Suddenly Human", with the X-wing things ripped out and the nacelles installed instead.
And it seems that the basic hull was built out of Imperial Star Destroyer elements...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
So you think there's a no go with a connection to the "The Time Trap" ship - even if it is doing it backwards!?! ;o)
I DID notice that the Orion Pirate ship from TAS, looked REMARKABLY like the Miradorn ship from "Vortex" which was also seen as the Mercenary ship in "Gambit 1 and 2". Having it as the ship for those 'pirates' in Gambit makes this ship interesting (and you could say that the Miradorn in "Vortex" weren't exactly non-pirate-ish...) Could they have taken inspiration from the TAS episode in building this ship? It fits nicely if they did. The ship at least in Gambit had some sort of 'something' about it according to Data? Or was it just unknown? Fits in nicely with the Orion idea... and just because we haven't seen the Orions, doesn't mean that we can't have seen their ships being used by 'pirate-esque' type groups in TNG/DS9!
Andrew
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Any chance we may find the script for the episode somwhere? Mayb it's like the note about the Intrepid or Ticonderoga; I don't know where the guy got his information, maybe it's just made up, but it could also be that there's a line in the script, something like:
"Scene xy, external shot. A view of the delta triangle graveyard; we can see several unknown ships as well as familiar designs. Some of them being the Skagerrak and Aliquippa, and the first Starfleet warpship, the Bonaventure..."
You know, something like that. Or it was in dialogue but cut. Until I take anything of this as official, I need a source for it. And the final episode is not.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I doubt it, highly. Besides, I think Masao already said that the gentleman made up the details like the name and background specifically for the project.
But, I suppose we could take the designs at least to be Starfleet...hey, Masao, could you maybe draw up the ships the way they really look? They're really simple shapes...
Incidentally, I've ordered a set of both the plans.
-MMoM
[ March 13, 2002, 11:46: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
That top one looks like the 'Dragons Teeth' ships.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
The video doesn't say much. IIRC, only Bonaventure is ID'd by name or given any explanation. As for the other ships, we can't even assume they're Starfleet ships.
I think we should all chip in and buy MMoM a drawing program!
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
It's not a matter of finances, my friend, it's just that I have no knack for that sort of thing. Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Knack, Shmack! Doing schematics is not hard to do once you start using a drawing program. You just have to develop a method.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Masao, what programs do you use for drawing!?!
And those two ships, I'm gonna say they AREN'T Federation ships... just because - in the first pic they have 'similar looking' nacelles - doesn't make them Fed ships - the Romulan BOP had 'Fed-esque' nacelles! That first pic could be a new Romulan ship! - it sorta has a 'beak' developing! ;o)
Andrew
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I use Macromedia Freehand version 7 (current version out is 10) on my Mac iBook.
I was reading the author's comments about these ships from their appearance in the GEC Logbook in 1998. Mark Wilson says that his goal wasn't to produce exact scale drawings of the ships as they appeared in the animated episode but to draw them as if they had been physical models built at the time of the original series. He added details to make them consistent with Federation ship designs of the time. I agree, they don't look like Starfleet ships, despite the nacelles.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Masao, (if I assume correctly that his drawings of the ships appeared in the mag) could you perhaps scan them for people to see? (As I said, I've ordered sets of both ships' plans from FF, but they won't get here for at least a week, and even when they do, chances are they'll be too large for my scanner...)
The refitted version of the Hopi-class is on shipschematics.net, but the others aren't.
-MMoM Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Yeah. I'll see what I can do.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
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