I saw in another thread someone say something about the Klingon Bird of Prey having one nacelle mounted inboard.
Where does that information come from?
I've always assumed, based on the small, flat nacelles of the D-7 and K't'inga, that the *wings* of a BoP were the nacelles. Granted, the wings are amazingly thin for the purpose, but I don't think it is outside the bounds of possibility. It also gives those silly wings something more to do, freeing up the precious internal space a Bird-of-Prey would otherwise lack.
Comments?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
There was an Okudagram somewhere that showed about eight or so warp coils mounted down the centreline of the BoP, with the big glowy thing(tm) at the middle of the back of the ship lining up with the end of the coils.
[ June 04, 2002, 23:58: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Huh . . . okay, I guess the humpbacks were in the warp coil plasma stream. :-)
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I always thought that those grilles on the back of the dorsal side were the warp field grilles and that two sets of warp field coils were to be found undernth.
The wings are not nacelles, they are some type of disruptor or other energy weapon.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I think he meant the wings themselves, not just the tips.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
The wings don't glow at all, so I'll have to go with the glowy red thing in the tail of a BoP.
'Cause, you know, those silly warp nacelles have a tendency to glow. Not always, but often enough.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
This really is weird, so the biggest part of the ship is now dominated by a warp nacelle.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Nacelles only glow if there's some sort of window to let the light out.
Posted by NeghVar (Member # 62) on :
Later! Art
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
If all that is occupied by coils, were is the quarters or the space where they kept the whales?
Posted by NeghVar (Member # 62) on :
It has always been my thought that each of the bumps was an inboard warp nacelle and the space between and below them was cargo, engineering, and crew quarters...
Later! Art
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
That's what I thought too. What book was that from again and who wrote it?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
That's an Okudagram (probably from "Blood Oath") reproduced in The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine by Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens.
I have a fuzzy memory of a colour one (but rotated 90 degrees) with the coils in a similar place somewhere else. Probably not the Encyclopedia, seeing as nobody has seemed to recall that yet. Odd.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
It's possible the warp core is built into the very bottom of the BoP, kinda like how the warpcore of a Runabout is built into the very top. This would leave room for the crew and whales.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The "five coils in single row" Okudagram was first seen in DS9 "Blood Oath", so it's sort of canon. It would seem to apply at least to the "DS9 size" of KBoPs, like the Rotarran or the one Dukat appropriated, in case you believe in differently sized BoPs. It's a bit difficult to claim that the whale-carrying version was as big as the Rotarran, or that the Rotarran was as small as the whale carrier... But doable, I guess.
I'd suggest placing those warp coils atop the hull and not at the bottom - it did seem that the whale holds were at the bottom part of the ship, even if the exterior did not have a visible set of doors there. There's this round thingamabob there at least which could be some sort of a door. And the exit ramp for personnel, seen in ST3, probably is hidden there as well.
I have no objection to devoting basically ALL of the aft hull to machinery and support systems. It is only logical to have different sections of the ship serve different purposes. All habitat functions could well be centered in the forward pod, for example. We never saw any extensive crew quarters aboard the tiny ST3/4 BoP, and the bigger TNG/DS9 BoPs were usually so big that all those ladderways and transporter rooms and crew quarters and whatnot could easily be located in the pod.
And it is Federation softness to think that the largest part of the ship should be accessible to the crew. Surely crew comfort would not be a priority for Klingons. Indeed, religious reasons might dictate that the crew quarters be deliberately cramped and uncomfortable.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by NeghVar: You can find the picture here:
Guys, not to take the whole thing too far, but we don't know what that is designed to represent.
On a Federation starship, those five thick lines in a sequence might designate warp coils. Then again, they might not.
However, this is a Klingon diagram. We don't know what the title says. We don't know the cultural symbols used to represent warp technology.
The point is, we do not know for certain what that diagram is supposed to represent. It certainly doesn't show everything aboardship . . . I see no quarters, or even the bridge. Why should we assume that's showing the warp drive? For all we know, that diagram title reads "The Pornography and Poetry Distribution Network", and those five thick lines are the designated wanking rooms on deck three, with reactive soundproofing and plenty of heavy objects for the warriors to throw at themselves.
One hit wonders...
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
The Fact Files state that the two rather small protruding fins on the engineering hull are the warp nacelles. I don't know where they got the idea, but I like it.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Well, after taking a close look at the studio models, I'd say those wee little ventral fins are a bit smallish for warp engines, even the wee Klingon ones.
But, as I was looking at the model, a thought came to me. Federation warp drives are a highly centralized affair, as were D-7 warp engines. When I first read your post, I thought you were talking about those odd roundish things on the dorsal rear, behind the silver wing-lock grills.
The more I look at it, though, the more the idea appeals to me . . . various warp engine components could be spread about . . . the odd roundish things could be something of import, as could the ventral finlets. The primary warp coils, however, could be very thin affairs located on the port and starboard of the impulse engine.
This idea appeals to me. Sure, it's contrary to my prior notion of the wings being the engines, but works nicely insofar as the wings could now be used not only as booms (to spread the weapons out), but as deuterium storage (not unlike modern aircraft engines carrying fuel in the wings).
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
i always imagined there being warp coils in a double wound affair (kind of like each galaxy class nacelle having 2 coils) down the center of the hull. the bumps at the front of each shoulder could contain bussard collectors, and each bussard collector would lead to one of the sets of coils. the way you explain the whale compartment is.....temporal....space.....transducers.........mkIV. yeah, thats it. temproal space transducers mkIV. w00t!
--jacob
[ June 15, 2002, 16:51: Message edited by: EdipisReks ]
Posted by Siwiak (Member # 842) on :
I agree that the Okudagram is more then likely displaying the location for the warp core itself, rather then the coils.
Its clear that they didn't really give the BOP that much thought on the subject of where the warp coils are. The only time I've seen anying suggesting where they could be located was Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home where we see Kirk and company on the HMS Bounty and as they approach higher warps, you can see a zoom-in on the large engine on the aft section of the ship glowing a bright red. While I think that those engines look more like impulse engines, why would they be glowing while at warp?
Then again, those same engines are glowing in Star Trek III: The Search For Spock when we see the BOP get out of the way as the Enterprise's bridge is blown apart as the self-destruct sequence begins.
The "grills" on both sides look like they may be warp coils, then again, they could be an elaborate hydrolic system for raising and lowering the wings. For all we know, maybe they have some uber-almost-impossible engine hybrid which unrealisitic combines the WPS and IPS in a foolish attempt to add detail to rusty old bucket-o-bolts. Posted by Siwiak (Member # 842) on :
On the subject of bussard collectors, there need not be a warp engine assembly behind the thing. After all, the collectors simply suck in interstellar deuterium and it can't go straight into the nacelles for use. That stuff has to be piped to the main deuterium tank, then shuntted through the MARA to mix with its antimatter counterpart to create the energized warp plasma that then flows to the coils.
Technically, you could mount the collectors at the front of the ship, or anywhere on the hull for that matter. But I'd have to say that those cool red-glowing thingies look best on otherwise boring-looking nacelles.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
thanks, but we already knew all that. this is, afterall, a star trek forum of the highest quality.
Posted by The BWC (Member # 818) on :
Hydrogen, not deuterium.
Posted by Siwiak (Member # 842) on :
"...each bussard collector would lead to one of the sets of coils."
Apparently I took the above statement in a different manner then what you intended.
Yes, yes... at first its low-grade interstellar hydrogen which then "may be distilled [into] small amounts of deuterium for" yadda, yadda, yadda. The general point of my original post was that bussard collectors and warp nacelles aren't necessarily joined at the hip, and our Klingon friends may not have made use of them until the Vor'Cha. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Once after staring at the BOP, I came to the conclusion that the two rectangular 'things' protruding backwards from the ship - either side of the 'glowing section' were the Nacelles. They fit with the D7/K'Tinga style Klingon nacelle shape. They are quite close in - but hey - we've seen nacelles in all sorts of sections of different ships over the years. Also - it might make sense, if you 'removed the wings' - you have the bulk of the ship - and those 'rectangles' are either side of the bulk of the ship. The wings are just 'extras'. The glow then could be channeled into the 'glowing section' at the aft section, rather like how the 'glow' on the Defiant comes out the BACK of the nacelles (in the grills). Maybe this works in smaller ships.
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