[ June 27, 2002, 01:58: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Ultra Magnus Pym (Member # 239) on :
It's very shiny and facety and cgiish and not very cool.
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
These dam cgi's.
When will they learn that space is not that well lighted and isn't carpeted with nebulas.
Posted by DeadCujo (Member # 13) on :
The trailer looks nice. Can't help but think that one guy looks like an orc, though.
Posted by NeghVar (Member # 62) on :
Looks like from the Nemesis Flash Site that the Scimitar is a Reman vessel. Also looks like we will see some refitted Warbirds. Now I realize this is old news for some of you...just nice to see rumors turned into realities.
Later! Art
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
The shiny nose is because of the cloak kicking in.
The ship looks like an awesome cross-breed between the Negh'Var and a Dominion Cruiser (the medium sized one, with the forward swept wings).
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
This may sound really geeky, but I'm noticing a definite Eavesish design aesthetic exists and is especially prevalent in this brute.
[ June 27, 2002, 01:44: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Hello. I am a dark box. The light boxes are trying to keep the dark boxes down! Power to the people!
[ June 27, 2002, 01:45: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
When you give a spoiler warning, it's customary to mention what the spoilers are for...
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Fanboyish and I hate CGI. That's all I have to say about it.
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: This may sound really geeky, but I'm noticing a definite Eavesish design aesthetic exists and is especially prevalent in this brute.
Is he the one who designed the Dominion cruiser and battleship and later on, the Sona ships?
Cuase this thing looks like a cross between both. Eaves is deffinately running out of ideas. Not only is this thing greyish silver, it also fires white blueish pulses like the Dominion and Sona.
[ June 27, 2002, 08:01: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Seeing it from below like that, I think it was definitely supposed to look like a bird... in keeping with the giant bird of prey symbol of the Romulan Empire. But the ship just looks un inspired. As has been said, it looks too much like the Dommie warship and the Son'a ships. And white/grey just doesn't seem very Romulan to me.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:And white/grey just doesn't seem very Romulan to me
That's because it's Reman.
Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Seeing it from below like that, I think it was definitely supposed to look like a bird... .
Also looks kinda like a bat....
And seeing as how Remans look like sinister vampires....hmmmmmmmm.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Right, I can understand that the Reman design ethic might be different... but from what I read on the Nemesis site, they seemed to imply that the Remans were actually descendants of Romulan settlers 2000 years ago, who looked nasty thanks to the old "fun with DNA" tricks that Trek loves to pull.
But I also agree, that ship looks very unoriginal... again. It reminds me of the Son'a and the Dominion cruiser, but also like a bizarre mutation of that Bajoran assault ship that we occasionally saw on DS9. Not to mention it has the same basic shape as a Klingon bird-of-prey.
Still, I'll wait till I see the movie before declaring it "crap." Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
quote:Right, I can understand that the Reman design ethic might be different... but from what I read on the Nemesis site, they seemed to imply that the Remans were actually descendants of Romulan settlers 2000 years ago
I feel someone needs to point out that starship design is decidedly not a genetic trait. some of the contributing factors are the mechanical necessities of the technology used and the materials available, the efficiency of the design and the aesthetics of the culture involved
Posted by NeghVar (Member # 62) on :
If I am not mistaken...this looks awfully familiar:
Might just be me though... Art
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Hey, the Winged Defender! That reminds me of a modelbash idea I had.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
It looks nothing like that. In fact, the Reman Warbat description might well be the best one so far.
Eavesish signature features can be easily spotted if you stick the following designs together in one picture: the Enterprise-E, the various Son'a ships, The Jemmie Superbattleship, the bloodsuckers from "Fight or Flight," the Malurian ship from "Civilization," and some of various sketches of the Breen ship we saw in the Star Trek communicator. There's a certain sharp-edged agressively-swept quality to all of them. There's also the recurrant theme of a central core smoothly merging into wings rather than having them be defined add-ons a la Klingon ships. This is even somewhat true of the freshening of the Excelsior model as well.
Now, this isn't a criticism, per se. It's just interesting to see a Trek illustrator with a distinct "look" in much the same way that a Picasso or a Monet is immediately recognizable. I don't think recurrant Sternbachian features are as easy to spot, for instance.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:It looks nothing like that. In fact, the Reman Warbat description might well be the best one so far.
I might be wrong, but I think Negh'Var was referring to the Romulan ship in the trailer, not the Scimitar. In that case, the Romulan ship does look similar to the FASA ship. But of course, neither the Rommie nor the Scimmie look anything like the TNG Warbird.
Oops, my bad. On reflection, the scene of the ship I thought was a different Romulan ship was in fact the Scimitar at a different angle. Ignore the above.
[ June 30, 2002, 17:53: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Scimitar this, Scimitar that, I'm still waiting for the updated Warbird Sternbach promised. They even list the modified D'Deridex on the official page. And since Sternbach is involved, I don't think we'll see another 'Romulan Warbat' (I like the name ) but something truely original.
One thing though: if the ship is Reman, where did they get the yard, ressources and engineers to build it? I'd have guessed the Romulans have something against that venture. (Furthermore, I think they say it was the Romulan flagship.)
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
oh, i can spot a Sternbach ship from a mile away... its not the large design features that are his signature, its in the details
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
What "updated Warbird?" What "promise" made by Sternbach? Please elaborate.
Posted by The Real Folk Blues (Member # 510) on :
quote:I don't think recurrant Sternbachian features are as easy to spot, for instance.
in this medium (ie Star Trek), i think that is the hallmark of Sternbach being a better ship designer than Eaves.
quote:ts not the large design features that are his signature, its in the details
that is the problem i have with the designs of John Eaves: they don't have the lovingly crafted details that the Sternbach designs have.
[ June 27, 2002, 15:51: Message edited by: The Real Folk Blues ]
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: What "updated Warbird?" What "promise" made by Sternbach? Please elaborate.
Spoilers
$
$
$
According to this obscure Nemesis script the Warbird Valdore and another warbird help the Enterprise-E fighting the Scimitar.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Um...yeah...you suck at the internet...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: ...from what I read on the Nemesis site, they seemed to imply that the Remans were actually descendants of Romulan settlers 2000 years ago, who looked nasty thanks to the old "fun with DNA" tricks that Trek loves to pull...
What? I didn't see this implied. How so? The script implies just the opposite, that the Remans were indigenous to Remus and were conquered by the Romulans when they arrived.
-MMoM Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: What "updated Warbird?" What "promise" made by Sternbach? Please elaborate.
He told us at the TrekBBS. He designed an update for the D'Deridex. According to him this will be a totally new CGI-model of the old Warbird with several modifications rather than something we've seen before. Something like Soyuz vs. Miranda. And I should know it. I was the one who asked him. Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
quote:Eavesish signature features can be easily spotted if you stick the following designs together in one picture: the Enterprise-E, the various Son'a ships, The Jemmie Superbattleship, the bloodsuckers from "Fight or Flight," the Malurian ship from "Civilization," and some of various sketches of the Breen ship we saw in the Star Trek communicator. There's a certain sharp-edged agressively-swept quality to all of them. There's also the recurrant theme of a central core smoothly merging into wings rather than having them be defined add-ons a la Klingon ships. This is even somewhat true of the freshening of the Excelsior model as well. Now, this isn't a criticism, per se. It's just interesting to see a Trek illustrator with a distinct "look" in much the same way that a Picasso or a Monet is immediately recognizable. I don't think recurrant Sternbachian features are as easy to spot, for instance.
I agree. The problem of most Eaves designs (but only in comparison with each other) is that he always seems to start from a similar sickle or wing shape. Instead of adding recognizable components like nacelles, sensor arrays, a bridge or habitation pods, he only adds some sort of fractal complexity (and usually takes this too far).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Blah blah blah blah... can I just say that the problem with the Warbat there is it's too busy. It has no definate SHAPE. The Trek ships have shown that the further in the future you get the more 'smooth' and 'refined' the ships shapes are.
Sternbach had a REAL flare for designing his ships (so did Andy Probert) but Sternbach could pump out a ship that had THOUGHT behind it. You'd KNOW it was CARDASSIAN or KLINGON or ROMULAN.
Anyone notice how all the new ships from the end of the Kazon to the End of Ent season 1 (excluding the Starfleet ships) have been very... sameish. Very hard to distinguish. None of the ships would say "CARDASSIAN" like the Galor does for The Cardassian Union etc. They just look like jumbled up arcs and spikes.
Oh and all the nebulae - blame Babylon 5 for that. They think they need to have some sort of colourful background in each effect's shot. And now the end parts of DS9 and Voyager.
Andrew
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Blah blah blah blah... can I just say that the problem with the Warbat there is it's too busy. It has no definate SHAPE. The Trek ships have shown that the further in the future you get the more 'smooth' and 'refined' the ships shapes are.
Sternbach had a REAL flare for designing his ships (so did Andy Probert) but Sternbach could pump out a ship that had THOUGHT behind it. You'd KNOW it was CARDASSIAN or KLINGON or ROMULAN.
Anyone notice how all the new ships from the end of the Kazon to the End of Ent season 1 (excluding the Starfleet ships) have been very... sameish. Very hard to distinguish. None of the ships would say "CARDASSIAN" like the Galor does for The Cardassian Union etc. They just look like jumbled up arcs and spikes.
Oh and all the nebulae - blame Babylon 5 for that. They think they need to have some sort of colourful background in each effect's shot. And now the end parts of DS9 and Voyager.
The lighting is HORRID. It's FLAT and UGLY like Insurrection. CGI sucks.
And that Reman ship for a second looked like that Son'a collector (without it's sail)
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
You people do realize the movie isn't finished yet, right? Your little light problem is probably still being worked on. Come on people, it's just the trailer, not the actual film! Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Galor is just a Vorcha flipped around and painted gold. Ooh, "species specific!"
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh, yeah, and I love the "from the end of the Kazon to Enterprise" bit, too. I'm trying to remember who was the chief ship designer for Voyager for its entire run. Come on, the name is on the tip of my tongue...
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: The Galor is just a Vorcha flipped around and painted gold. Ooh, "species specific!"
Well, don't forget that it's a backwards, golden Vorcha with it's nacelles ripped off!
Some years ago Andy Probert and I talked at length about starship design. He was very complimentary about several other designers, but he did point out that a number of the people he worked with or knew didn't have industrial design backgrounds like he did, and he thought that they came at the ship designs a different way than he did for that reason.
One cool thing he designed (for a TNG computer game that was never released) was a Starfleet fighter craft that looked nothing like the Star Wars-ian kludges we've seen on the shows. His design had a similar esthetic to the GCS, but it was clearly a fighter. It's tough to describe exactly, but picture a curvy CGS-eque version of the warp sled shuttle from TMP, where the front of the shuttle body is a bubble cockpit and the nacelles are phaser cannons (with slotted fronts that looks like the tips of the TMP/TWOK phasers), and you'll kinda a crude idea of the shape.
[ June 30, 2002, 18:29: Message edited by: MrNeutron ]
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
It's also on his site. Posted by Siwiak (Member # 842) on :
That series of doors just below that blue window almost looks like where the collector's sails popped out of.
The comment on ships with a "species-look," I think, does a good job of describing some of the best-designed ships. Come on, the Vor'Cha and Galor had character in them, while these new ones are all shiny, some shade a gray and only do a good job of showing how well light can reflect off their CG textured hulls. Even the Dominion Battlecrusier was rather straight-forward, and you could look at the thing and quickly recognize its features.
The Scimitar, at least in the trailer, looks like a kitbash of ships that didn't impress me the first time around.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: It's also on his site.
What's also on his site? You didn't link to a specific page or even indicate what "it" is. My Kingdom for a noun! Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I think Shik meant the unsued Galaxy-esque fighter. It really is not on his site. What I saw that even comes close to what was being described was the Sphinx Workpod featured in the TNGTM, but also unused. The Sphinx on his site was a general schematic-type and three quarters view drawing, and in an unused Valera III matte painting.
[ June 30, 2002, 22:58: Message edited by: Dat ]
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
It WAS there...it'll probably come back as he completes his reconstruction. It was basically this somewhat egg-shaped central pod with a clear wraparound window...& there were 2 propulsion & weapons arms that came out & around from the back.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
It sounds to me that Shik is describing the scrapped design of the original TNG shuttle.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Shik is not. Maybe one day I'll draw it out if MY FUCKING SHOWER DRAIN EVER UNCLOGS SO I CAN TAKE A SHOWER....!!
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Well it sounds to me like the Sphinx workpod...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
That was already mentioned. He said that that's not what he's talking about.
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
Ap1 Fighter Is that what your talking about?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
YES!! That is it EXACTLY! Probert's drawing/painting have 2 of them in color doing some form of manuevers, & he'd labeled them up as Starfleet fighters.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
That's very ugly! Perhaps if a model was ever made and I could see it in action or just a 3/4 view, it may look better. Or better yet, a refinement. Probert's early E-D drawings were also on the crappy side, but after many refinments, the E-D looks great.
[ July 02, 2002, 08:41: Message edited by: Dat ]
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I like it actually, pretty kewl. I'd have to see it's size though.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, presumably, the pod holds one person. That should give an idea of the size.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
if thats a fixed wing spacecraft, wed have trouble stacking them in shuttlebays unless they folded or detached somehow.. another 'too big fighter' problem
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Eeew.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Oh, lucky me. I happen to be on the right side of Mim's tastebuds this time...
Eeewww. It looks like it would launch from the ship and then come whirling right back.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hunter: Ap1 Fighter Is that what your talking about?
Well, sorta...but this drawing looks like a badly interpreted plan drawing.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Looks like the perfect choice for cruising on the weekends and breaking up the occasional slave revolt on Abydos.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Don't see anything at your link AndrewR.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
copy and paste Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
That ship looks really nice (the submarine thing). I found the sketch on his page, too, but I have no idea why he did it. Was it for a movie or a computer game or what?
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
It appears SEGA and McDonalds still exist in the 24th century, according to Probert...
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
That pic is decidedly not from his Trek site.. check the sites under the other movies/designs he's done i think
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: That ship looks really nice (the submarine thing). I found the sketch on his page, too, but I have no idea why he did it. Was it for a movie or a computer game or what?
Andy used to work at Sega.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) but something truely original.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)