1.) What was seen/mentioned of the Merrimack in BR? 2.) Was the Cochrane in "The Game"?
-MMoM Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
1) IIRC, Etana wanted one of the crew members (I forget which one) to transfer over to the Merrimac in an effort to spread the Game.
2) Wesley rendesvoused with the Enterprise in an Oberth, but it was just stock footage of the ship Norah Satie arrived in. Curiously, Wesley was described as arriving in a shuttle. Perhaps "shuttle" is used here as a generic term for any ship that shuttles people around, in this case an Oberth.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Or for some reason or another, they had to shuttle him over, instead of using a transporter.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: 1) IIRC, Etana wanted one of the crew members (I forget which one) to transfer over to the Merrimac in an effort to spread the Game.
2) Wesley rendesvoused with the Enterprise in an Oberth, but it was just stock footage of the ship Norah Satie arrived in. Curiously, Wesley was described as arriving in a shuttle. Perhaps "shuttle" is used here as a generic term for any ship that shuttles people around, in this case an Oberth.
Wait...so the Merrimack was in "The Game" too? I had no knowledge of this. I was asking about what was mentioned of the ship in "Birthright."
But thanks... Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
1.) AFAIK they mentioned that Cmdr. Rudman was an officer aboard the Merrimac in Birthright.
[ July 01, 2002, 14:02: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I could be wrong about the Merrimac reference in "The Game." I just remember that a crew member was to be tranferred to another ship, & it was a Nebula from the name they gave.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
MMoM--The only way you'll find the Merrimack reference in "Birthright" in the Encyclopedia is under the entry for Commander Rudman. Just to let you know if you can't find it.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
It was the Endeavour they mentioned in 'The Game'. The Cmdr. Rudman/Merrimack reference is from the Encyclopedia, maybe it was mentioned on the show, but I don't remember it. Must have been one of those small throw-away lines you usually don't remember (although if it's starship-throwaway, I usually notice and remember it.)
There was no mention of the Cochrane in 'The Game', Riker was ordered to take a shuttle to spread the game on the Endeavour while I think Troi was ordered to take the game with her to Starbase whatever. Where did you get the Cochrane from? Only episodes I know are 'The Drumhead' and 'Emissary', and I don't think the name Cochrane was ever mentioned in any of those episodes.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
quote:1) IIRC, Etana wanted one of the crew members (I forget which one) to transfer over to the Merrimac in an effort to spread the Game.
I thought that was the Endeavour.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I distinctly remember hearing the Merrimack in "The Game"
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The ship mentioned as a plot point in "The Game" was the Endeavor, allegedly fresh out of the construction yards and early duty on the blockade line in "Redemption II". The Merrimack was the ship that picked Wesley up at the end of the show.
In TNG, the ONLY times we actually see a Nebula-class ship on the screen is when the ship is directly referenced: the Phoenix in "The Wounded", the Melbourne (arguably) in "BoBWII", the Sutherland in "Redemption II", and the Farragut in "Generations". Other than that, they are only dialogue references to Nebbies, whose class names we figure out from the Encyclopedia (Merrimack, Monitor, Endeavor, Hera, et. al.).
In DS9 and Voyager we frequently see Nebula-class ships docked to things or otherwise part of some obscure Starfleet presence. They are rarely named.
Mark
[ July 01, 2002, 16:51: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by CaptAlabin (Member # 733) on :
and the Prometheus in DS9 "Second Sight"
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
After the original Prometheus footage was shot, the same stock footage would be used to represent the Lexington and the T'Kumbra. However, I don't think the model was ever labeled "Prometheus."
For "The Game," there were three ships seen/mentioned. The Oberth that Wesley originally arrived in, the Merrimack (which was the ship Wesley would depart in, but wasn't seen), and the Endeavor (which was the ship Etana mentioned). I don't know of any reference that stated the Endeavor was fresh out of the shipyard.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
They had relabeled the Prometheus. There were two additional shot of the ship flying at warp to that collapsed star. And back then I was trying to figure out the registry (before the glorious age of the Encaclopedia). I think I came pretty close. Since it's a crap episode, I didn't watch it in ages, but I'm sure the ship was the Prometheus.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Yes, they did relabel the Nebula model, because I also remember seeing the proper registry number on the hull in one of the shots. That was way back when I was first getting into the wonderful world of cataloging Starfleet ships...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
NCC-71201 and USS Prometheus are clearly viewable in one of the two shots where the Prometheus is in motion. It is not visible in the two shots where she's docked at the station, which is why we frequently see her representing other ships.
And the Prometheus is a special one for me too - because that's where I started to discriminate between good and bad bridge designs, and was complaining a lot about the total lack of forethought that went into the ship's sets and even her crew.
Mark
[ July 02, 2002, 09:31: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
is that the one where evryone except the captain has to stand around at their stations??
someone please post a link - i'm to lazy to go to that site which has it....
*waits for reprimand*
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
You can find the bridge of the Prometheus on Bernd's site. It has chairs for almost everyone, but my main complaint is with how utilitarian and patchwork the bridge set looks. I'd expect the Nebula-class ships to have at least a modicum of class. That, and a CO with a rank higher than Lieutenant (jg.) Piersall!
You're probably thinking of the bridge set of the USS Sutherland, which had free-standing Conn and Ops consoles. There were seats for the science stations, but they were rarely manned. Anyway, most people seem to think that the Sutherland set was a battle bridge or aux control room, and not the actual bridge for teh ship under construction.
Mark
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Wasn't the Prometheus bridge later reused for the Odyssey? They really should have kept the E-D's bridge set after Generations. Prometheus' bridge was the worst one ever. If they don't have the money, they could have built a smaller bridge for an Oberth-class ship for example. And it would have been more believable with Lt. Piersall and Seyetik and everything.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
I just saw "The Visitor" and noticed that there is a Nebula docked on one of the pylons when they are evacuating the station from the Klingons. Is there any information on what model was used here? It could be a re-use of the Leeds shot from the opening credits, but I'm not sure.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
That was most likely the Leeds, as the new OP sequence featuring her docked there had premiered just two episodes earlier, and the odds are they wouldn't re-label the model like that.
Re: The Prometheus, I'm of the belief that the script *intended* for the ship to be some generic Federation Starship, with the intent of it being an Oberth or Miranda or something else. When the time came for the model to be chosen, for whatever reason someone ended up choosing the Nebbie model. Were it almost any other model *but* the Nebula or any ship at one point named Enterprise, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense.
Re: The Odyssey, yes its bridge set was a re-use of this one, itself just a chunk of the TOS Movie Enterprise bridge from ST 5-7. The reason they didn't use the Generations bridge was that it was being used / abused for the movie, and to reassemble it or restore it afterwards would have been far too prohibitive. It fits far better anyway if the Odyssey bridge we saw was that ship's battle bridge, which I like to believe in spite of seeing the dedication plaque at the back of the set.
Mark
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Hey, thanks for the info about the Prometheus, guys. There's another ship registry I can add to my canon shiplist!
Re: The Odyssey's dedication plaque: Has anyone seen this? And if so, did it have the ship's registry number on it? Or did the model itself have a registry different from NCC-1701-D?
quote:That, and a CO with a rank higher than Lieutenant (jg.) Piersall!
That would probably explain why the ship was destroyed so soon for Starfleet to make a replacement in the Prometheus class Prometheus. I mean, come on, a junior grade lieutenant in command of a Nebula class starship??? They could have just used stock footage of the Oberth in "Emissary," and it would have made a lot more sense. Or even better, they could have used the U.S.S. Nash
[ July 02, 2002, 14:52: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
The model indeed had been labeled as USS Odyssey NCC-71832. I remember this because there was a backstage scene that was made for a PBS special that discussed the science of Star Trek. That footage was of a team moving the model around and a really good view of the saucer top was given which clearly showed the name and registry number.
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
Maybe the captain of "Prometheus" was asleep. After all, nearly every single exciting and interesting event in the Star Trek universe conveniently occurs during the day. Perhaps Lieutenant (j.g.) Piersall (sp?), the nightshift command duty officer, sensing something exciting might actually occur during his shift, shut off all communications and alarms in the captain's quarters, so he could stay in command. Of course, I do not remember the episode very well, so there could very well be time references that would render my attempt to be rye and witty futile.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
There are not. The SOLE reason that no Captain was aboard was that if there were, the last act of the show would have been completely useless, since the Captain (as ranking officer) would have had all the lines instead of Sisko.But since Piersall was only a dot-and-a-half nobody, Both Sisko and Dax could step in and attempt all the rescuing while making the regular crew look totally incompetant:
Seyetik: Ever read "The Fall of Kang"? Sisko: It's required reading at the Academy.
[later]
Seyetik: Blah blah blah [quoting "The Fall of Kang"] blah blah... Piersall: What's he talking about? Sisko: Klingon poetry.
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Re: The Prometheus, I'm of the belief that the script *intended* for the ship to be some generic Federation Starship, with the intent of it being an Oberth or Miranda or something else."
The script says "The only ship in port is the PROMETHEUS, a Federation science vessel, not in any way noteworthy or obtrusive.".
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:"The only ship in port is the PROMETHEUS, a Federation science vessel, not in any way noteworthy or obtrusive."
Well, that description sounds like it would have fit an Oberth way better than a Nebula.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
agreed.. it wouldve fit the cramped sets they used too.. i believe the utilitarian corridors and doorways they used for the Prometheus were the generic ones that were built and continually redressed that season, such as for the Prom. and also the crashed Santa Maria, before the pieces were refurbished to become the Defiant corridors
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Back to Piersall; maybe the commanding officer or the staff were on holiday for the weekend. Of course the ship was scheduled for whatever was the reason they docked at DS9. Lateron, they would have picked them up and continued the mission. But somehow Seyetik wanted to finish his experiment real fast, and they left without picking them up first.
OK, even if it would have been an Oberth, a Lieutenant in command would have made no sense. I would have been nice if they had brought back the Sutherland and Commander Hobson from 'Redemption'. Or they could have introduced the mysterious 'Captain Shelby'. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
actually, if Oberths have a crew of less than fifty, a lieutenant would make perfect sense. In the navy, many many ships are commanded by officers with ranks less than captain. If a captain is the rank necessary to command a ship with 1,000+ people aboard, why would you need a officer of that stature to command a crew of 37 or so? Many subs are commanded by lieutenant commanders and commanders and vessels smaller than that would be perfectly suited for a lieutenant to head up. I realize that some Oberths and other small vessels have definitely had commanders of captain rank, but it seems just as likely some would not.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The Oberth-class Yosemite had a crew of five, and the ranking officer was a lieutenant, so...
Mark
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
on small ships:
The Defiant was commanded by a Commander until Sisko was promoted to Captain, and then he commanded it during big deal fleet ops, but usually a Lt Cmdr was in the chair ( i think Dax was officially the captain while Sisko was assigned to SB 375, and Worf was always the ships master whenever we saw it in ops before that )
I think Oberths typically would be commanded by lts or cmdrs, the only reason we saw the Grissom with a captain was that it was a sensitive mission.. or perhaps it does depend on the crew size.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
On the other hand, if you have a Captain in command of an Akira or Excelsior for example, you should have at least a Fleet Captain or Commodore (if that rank still exists) in Command of a Galaxy, maybe even an Admiral for a Sovereign. Still, this is not the case. The commanding officer of the Lantree (designated a tansport ship with a crew of a dozen or so) was a Captain, as was the commanding officer of the Brattain. Or the above mentioned Esteban. I have no problem with lower-ranking personel in such positions, but if they do it, they should do it consequently.
Posted by The Real Folk Blues (Member # 510) on :
heh, well the CO of the Nenebek was a "Captain" too. maybe not all of these Captains are really Captains. maybe the "Captain" of the Lantree was like "yar, call me Captain or ye gets me phaser in yer teeth, yar". or maybe Captain was just being used as a polite adjective: if you are the CO of a ship, then you are a "Captain", but not necessarily a Captain.
[ July 03, 2002, 10:34: Message edited by: The Real Folk Blues ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Real Folk Blues: heh, well the CO of the Nenebek was a "Captain" too. maybe not all of these Captains are really Captains. maybe the "Captain" of the Lantree was like "yar, call me Captain or ye gets me phaser in yer teeth, yar". or maybe Captain was just being used as a polite adjective: if you are the CO of a ship, then you are a "Captain", but not necessarily a Captain.
Captain Telaka was seen on-screen, at least his corpse. Clearly visible were four stars. Same for Captain Zaheva. Picard reviewed her log entry.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The difference however is that the captains of the Lantree and Br!ttain had four pips, whereas other "skippers" like Dax did not. Wartime may be a factor here.
During world wars, destroyers, subs and even frigates were often commended by naval officers as low in rank as lieutenant...
Mark
Posted by The Real Folk Blues (Member # 510) on :
been a while since i saw those episodes. well, if there are 4 pips there are 4 pips.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Ignore this.
[ July 03, 2002, 13:02: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
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