Has anyone seen this book? It says that the book contains more than 40 starships with illustrations and technical data, both federation and alien. Is this worth buying? I�m only after the pics, to scan and post on my page, so are they any good?
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
I can't answer for the pics; however, the reviews have been very positive for this book.
Posted by Micromaniac (Member # 546) on :
I have it - it is ok but there are errors shows Jemhaddar Battleship for the cruiser- as it is the only game in town we are stuck with it.
Posted by Starship Freak (Member # 293) on :
Hmm, the images themselves? Any new angles or pics, or just the same old ones we�ve seen way to many times?
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
I take it that this is for some Star Trek RPG? Anyone got any additional information? Amazon.com seems to indicate it's for an RPG, but I have to admit I've not heard of a current Trek game that's out there other than the cardgame. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
What kind of technical info is there? Weapons and crew compliments? Are the dimensions correct or just a re-hash of the DS9TM errors?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
A review said that it's basicaly Starship Spotter with drawings instead of CGI-shots. And that these drawings aren't as accurate as they could be. I guess they didn't have access to actual photos; and even if they had them they are probably not allowed to publish them. AFAIK, these books (and RPGs in general) are not official (or at least not supposed to be). Right?
Posted by Micromaniac (Member # 546) on :
There is a color side and top view and a photo of each . Hull data/Tactical data/Propulsion data/Operational data/Miscellaneous data as it is part of their role gaming stuff. Mission/Features/Background and ships in service. With some of these made up.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Scans! We need scans!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Ehh, it's a current book. Buy it yerself!
A more plausible question: Who did the work? Writing, designs, etc.?
Mark
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
How about some... preview scans then?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I can't imagine it has much that would be of interest to anyone who wasn't into the role-playing game. That is, unless it featured nice big CGI shots of ships without "dramatic" lighting effects. What good does a schematic type picture of a ship do me if half the thing is in shadow? I'm looking squarely at you, USS Prometheus pictures. Bah!
But, uh, that is a personal peeve of mine. Anyway, some links.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Saw it on a bookstore last week. The pics are low-res drawings, apparently "computer freehand" instead of reworkings of existing blueprints or other schematics, and only bear a superficial resemblance to the ships they depict. For example the Negh'Var is barely recognizable. There are really weird choices there, too - the ship used in DS9 "Babel" and later modified into Neelix' Baxial is called the "Federation Antares class transport", IIRC, and the ST3 Merchantman is a "Class III Tanker".
I didn't pay attention to the specs given, but I trust them to be as poorly researched as the drawings. IIRC, there were a few new designs there, but none of them very inspiring.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So it's another sucky RPG suppliment and not the grail we all yearn for....
Unseen Frontier! Where are you?!?
Timo! I dub you Sir Timo Percival: go forth and find a book of accurate starship schematics with text descriptions that actually make sense!
...come to think of it: the Flarites could easily make a "starship encyclopedia" with our immense skills....we just need the schematic kings to do the legwork and we can all have a say in the design of the more obscure ships... We could make the finaproduct a easily printed PDF file available to all of fandom.
Am I tilting at windmills here or is this a possibility?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Take a look at the bottom section of the main page of Flare...
Alternately, I could mail you about 300 pages of shipfic sans pictures, featuring all the canon, Spaceflight Chronology, Ships of the Star Fleet, select FASA/SFB and Trek novel pieces, etc. done not in Jane's format, but in the style of all those Bill Gunston books where a short history is attached to each description of a ship, sub, aircraft or other militaria piece (desk drawer writing becomes expensive after the sixth desk fills up and you have to buy a new room... ). But that wouldn't take you one step closer to the Grail.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
I've got the Decipher book and titbits such as ship names and registries are starting to appear on my web site. (I think I've got as far as Intrepid class, going alphabetically).
Stats are heavily based on Starship Spotter, which means that the odd pice of FASA or Ships of the Star Fleet stuff appears. Beyond that I can't be bothered to say much about the stats, they're tied to the game system and don't always translate into 'real' numbers (e.g. phasers are classified by they're overall effectiveness rather by the exact number and fire arc).
Each ship has a small photo and larger starboard, dorsal (ventral for the Excelsior!) and fore (aft for the Nebula!) illustrations. The illos are not photo-realistic or CGI renderings, but are a million steps above the LUG Price of Freedom illos.
A few illustrations are very wrong, clearly the artist was not provided with enough reference photos and had to fill in some angles from his imagination. Those that are wrong are - * Talon class (scoutship from Insurrection) * Klngon Raptor class (top view is okay, side and fore views are well off) * Romulan Theta class (the scout/science vessel, though some of the background fluff seems to refer to the warpshuttle instead... In the LUG game the shuttle was Theta class and the scout was Deresus class. Anyway, the illos are only really wrong in that they've added some sort of pod onto the top of the hull) * Cardassian Galor class (Keldon is used instead. Stats for these two ships are also confusing.) * Jem'Hadar Warship (conflates the BC and BB).
There are no new ships, though a wingless version of the Maquis raider (large version) is called a Harmony class Fast Escort of Orion manufacture.
The freighter Timo mentions is called the Altair class, not the Antares class. There is no Antares class (thankfully, the last thing we need is another take on the Antares...).
The Raven is given as an Aerie class Surveyor, and to keep with canon these ships have USS names but NAR registries, but we all know to blame Voyager PTB for that, not Decipher.
It's not the mythical 'Big Book of Starships', it's a book for a game. Buy it if you play the game or if you're a fanatical collector. If you just want some more Names/Registries then visit my site where I'll try to list all the new ones.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Take a look at the bottom section of the main page of Flare...
what are the UP boys up to these days.. anything they need me to write?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Timo.. did you write all those thingies you mentioned? If that's true, you need a website Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Take a look at the bottom section of the main page of Flare...
Alternately, I could mail you about 300 pages of shipfic sans pictures, featuring all the canon, Spaceflight Chronology, Ships of the Star Fleet, select FASA/SFB and Trek novel pieces, etc. done not in Jane's format, but in the style of all those Bill Gunston books where a short history is attached to each description of a ship, sub, aircraft or other militaria piece (desk drawer writing becomes expensive after the sixth desk fills up and you have to buy a new room... ). But that wouldn't take you one step closer to the Grail.
Timo Saloniemi
So...you'll PDF the file for me? Just the good stuff, mind you.....I have color printers at my disposal! I just need the refrence for modeling.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Well Timo if you have 300 pages of fanfiction ships, sans pictures, from the sources you describe, please distribute.
I am interested in taking a look at them because like most fan boys I am writing this type of material for my one fan fic ships and I would like to compare. Plus, your fan fiction ships have more history and seem more "realistic" if you can cite examples of previous ships of the type, or the names and registeries of ships that beared the name.
But back to the Decipher book. I thumbed through this book this week end at a local book store and was very unimpressed with its interior design and use of color. The schematics of the starships are for the most part undetailed and rendered in ugly colors, like the silvery blue Sovereignclass illustration if I am remembering correctly. It seems to me that no care was taken in choosing who to hire to draw schematics of the starships and little or no care was taken in choosing which starship publicity photos to print in this book.
You think that they could have hired one of us to help out with this book. Reverend, for example, could have done an exponentially better job at illustrating this book than the artist they hired.
Also, there are hardly any starships in this book. Last Unicorn Games gave us a lot more starships in its Starship Recognition Guide, and made an attempt to document all the models we had seen.
In the Decipher Starships book, where is the description and stats for the Springfield, Challenger, Niagara, Freedom, Curry, New Orleans, Cheyenne, Intrepid-Constitution variant, Centaur, Raging Queen (whatever class she was), three-nacelled Excelsior variant (Medusa?), and the Constitution variant ( Polaris?) classes.
Alas for all those cool FASA designs we lost when FASA lost its role-playing license.
So a new licensee not only has to re-invent the wheel, but they give us less material than what we had before in the old role-playing game license?
So if you are considering a purchase of this book, see if you can locate a copy of it before making the purchase decision. Personally I think that most fans will be disappointed with the low quality of this book and give it a pass, especially at a $34.95 cover price.
But on the plus side, I did find out that quantum torpedoes can be fired only by a Mk 75 or better torpedo launcher, Defiant-class or later, a question that I asked in another thread in this forum.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
quote:Originally posted by Triton: But on the plus side, I did find out that quantum torpedoes can be fired only by a Mk 75 or better torpedo launcher, Defiant-class or later, a question that I asked in another thread in this forum.
Which makes no sense at all... they're similar size. All one needs to do different is install less A/M packages into the Q-Torp [a function of software] for propulsion only, instead of for porpulsion and warhead purposes like in the P-Torp.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Well my original thinking was that it didn't matter and that torpedo launch systems only differed by their rates of fire and reloading ability, not the size and type of munitions and probes that they could fire/launch.
But there has been debate in other threads, especially when discussing fan fiction starships, whether all ships in the fleet can fire this weapons or if its the exclusive domain of the newest starship classes.
Everyone can give a good reason or generate bullet points to support his/her position on this issue. But having this issue discussed in writing from a licensed, though non-canon, source goes along way toward building a concensus.
Hmmm... if Treknology allows you to turn matter into energy, and then back to matter again, does it really matter which systems are installed in the starship? Why not replicate what you need for a particular mission or battle, use the system for the duration of the mission, and then convert the system to something needed for the next mission. Sorry cannot pick at this thread or the entire treknology canon begins to unravel. Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Because once you repl\cate something, you still have to mount it, wire it, connect it to the power grid, load the software, make sure it all works, etc. Now I don't know about you, but I hate doing that with just my computer. To be a Starfleet officer charged with doing a complete swapout everytime the captain wants to swing by Foodcourtia for some nachoes (extra chili)? Fuck THAT.
As for torpedoes, I've said ti before & I'll say it again until I die: a railgun is a railgun. The only difference is in how fast it can recharge between shots.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, as has been mentioned before when this subject comes up, there could concievably be enough difference between the way quantum and photon torpedoes are armed to necessitate some kind of add on, but there's no way to know.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
For those interested in the pictureless starship guide WIP, it's now at flareupload, shiptext.zip. It's probably more a Creative forum matter, if you want to comment, but I thought it not really worth bringing up there yet.
The text is in two Word files, the first having ships up to TOS, the second having the rest, plus separate chapters for "medium craft" (corvettes, scoutcraft, surveyors, runabi, what-have-you) and auxiliaries (shuttles of various kinds), plus a glossary. And it's VERY much a WIP. Plus of course the whole pre-TOS part has been invalidated by ENT now, and I have only tried some partial corrective measures.
No pics in there. Basically, you can use the www.shipschematics.net material when available. Although I've fiddled with some details as you may read in the text, the designs try to stay faithful to the original pics - a bit more so than some of Reverend's or Masao's work, with all the aesthetic caveats of that fundamentalist approach.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :
Timo;
I'd have to say that what you've written is pretty damn close to the Grail! You've just saved me a whole lot of $$$ that I would've dropped on buying a bunch of treknical works. I've only had enough time to take a cursory look at what you've gotten written but so far it's fantastic!
On another note, I noticed in your "thank you's" you mentioned James Dixon whom you listed as net-incommunicado. Just FYI, he's been posting over at the TrekBBS quite frequently as of late.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Holy Cow, Timo! That is some piece of work! Very impressive. You should really disseminate this, it certainly deserves wide exposure. You should post at Trek BBS and tell people where to get it.
PS: You shouldn't have chickened out about providing displacements Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Well, okay, perhaps this could be discussed over at Creative at least. But it's sort of silly to show it around when there are no pics there, and the sources for each entry aren't completely clear. I hate it when I have to be as vague about the references as Dixon, but I'd need to see e.g. the original FASA books to see how much really is "FASA-canon", and how much derives from elsewhere but isn't thus noted in Dixon's (where I get most of this stuff). There's still a lot of work in that.
The displacements are a bit iffy. I tried to "slip in" the idea that the classic Constitution displacement is a typo - the first 1 should be a 7, to go with Scotty's "nearly a million tons". Ditto for all the 1's in SotSF... That would make the thing more consistent with the Sternbach figures, but would wreak havoc with some earlier works. And FASA displacements, of course, are highly illogical wrt each other - and it would be a shame to make that explicit by listing the displacements for each and every ship.
Not to mention that I absolutely refuse to speak of "displacement" here. The displacement of a starship in space is always zero. "Mass" is the correct term to use, even with the relativistic and subspace-field-reduction caveats.
Similarly, I don't use "draught" for height, even though I admit to "beam" for width, as it is more neutral from the physics POV.
There's also some personal silliness I'll have to rethink because of ENT, even if I don't completely abandon the pre-TOS stuff. You'll note in the Constitution entry (IIRC) how I wiggle out of the Four-Year War via time travel trickery. But ENT might give us a human-Klingon war in the 22nd century, which makes it less fruitful to pretend that there never was a full war before "Errand of Mercy".
I'm having a severe writer's block about many TNG-era ships, since there's less material there that I could plagiarize or otherwise rip off. The Akira just plain doesn't inspire me. Also, there's less "fleshing out" material there for secondary ship types or ship families, although I tried to play with the various Andromedas and Zodiacs and whatnot, making some of them "sister classes" of each other, like was done with Saladin/Hermes etc.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I HAVE ORDERED THIS BOOK !! Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Plus �a Change, Plus C'est La M�me Chose !!
MULTIPLE WORD PLAY SCORE.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Also, there's less "fleshing out" material there for secondary ship types or ship families, although I tried to play with the various Andromedas and Zodiacs and whatnot, making some of them "sister classes" of each other, like was done with Saladin/Hermes etc.
Is there a schematic for the Zodiac or just general info?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Apart from ASDB conjecture, there's no real info on ships like the Zodiac.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Indeed, there isn't even a confirmation that the Zodiac should exist in the "real" timeline of Trek. Certainly it appears to be a marginal design, rarely seen in the front lines - there are few unnamed on-screen designs that could plausibly match the registry range of the one known Zodiac. OTOH, that Zodiac got a pretty distinguished name, the Yorktown...
Most reference works that speculate on these unseens fail to consider the logical or aesthetic aspects of a ship's supposed registry, stated mission, or obscure things like her name. The ASDB is a happy exception, and soars miles above the various RPG books. And for the record, I far prefer the ASDB Zodiac to my own concept of a single-nacelled "Akira little sister" or "futuristic Larson"...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: And for the record, I far prefer the ASDB Zodiac to my own concept of a single-nacelled "Akira little sister" or "futuristic Larson"...
Which one? There's like six different versions listed at ASDB.
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
I think the Zodiac Class exists in the 'real' timeline. Before the mention of a Yorktown in All Good Things, in the episode Frame of a Mind, there is a reference to a Yorktown. This 'real' timeline Yorktown is confirmed in Whispers.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
The Encyclopedia-registry confirms the ships existence in the real timeline. Assuming of course that Q's 2380's altered timeline was started after the present (seventh season) timeline, not earlier (if it was indeed an 'alternate' timeline, which seems obvious because of the E-D's appearance). If the Pasteur is "canon" (6xxxx registry), Yorktown should be canon, too.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Actually, the Pasteur's registry is 58928.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Actually, the Pasteur's registry is 58928.
I was close. Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Timo: Bloody hell!!!!! Just had a look at your file; fantastic! I haven't seen much of the old fan stuff like FASA on account of having been very young when it was bought out and rather broke now so thanks!!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by Timo: And for the record, I far prefer the ASDB Zodiac to my own concept of a single-nacelled "Akira little sister" or "futuristic Larson"...
Which one? There's like six different versions listed at ASDB.
Thanks Timo for the Word documents. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I HAVE RECEIVED THE BOOK !! Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
from a brief overview, some interesting facts:
Ambassador-class comissioned in 2322, crew of 900
The Akira registry list includes all the American Indian names given by Last Unicorn's RPG
Runabout Gander listed as NCC-72311
Excelsiors listed with crew of 770 (!?) but 24th century upgrades decrease to 650
1701-refit listed with crew of 500 (old Mr Scotts guide info tidbit)
USS Trinculo listed as Operation: Return vessel
750 crew on Nebula
USS Nova NX 72330 (?) .. theres also a Nova-class USS Solstice.. har har
USS Titan, Prometheus-class, commanded by WT Riker.. *screams*
crew of 855 on Sovereigns seems sensible, the NCC-9xxxx registries do not.. i prefer Activisions reg for the Sovvie prototype
Data's scoutship was called the Talon, but had no registry.. maybe they missed the movie?
between large and small birds-of-prey, the crew difference is exactly as i surmised, 12 for the scout and 52 for the cruiser (thank god its not 1,000+ like the DS9 TM suggested).. however the 250m / 350m sizes both seem kinda ridiculous.. my own personal interpretation has been 120m for the scout and 160m for the cruiser.. i dont like there being orders of magnitude difference between scaled ships
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I think it was stated in the STIII SE, clearly, that the 'scout' bird-of-prey was like 110-120m.
As for the rest of those neat little factoids, it is very unfortuante that there isn't a shred of reality to those figures...
...Titan=Prometheus...damn them to hell for messing with our minds!! Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: I think it was stated in the STIII SE, clearly, that the 'scout' bird-of-prey was like 110-120m.
Huh? What dialogue is this attributed to? I don't have the SE DVD, but this is the first mention I've heard to actual dialogue giving the length of the BoP for ST:III.
quote:...Titan=Prometheus...damn them to hell for messing with our minds!!
What's the deal? Nobody likes the Prometheus class or what? I think he'd be great in that class of ship.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: I think it was stated in the STIII SE, clearly, that the 'scout' bird-of-prey was like 110-120m.
Huh? What dialogue is this attributed to? I don't have the SE DVD, but this is the first mention I've heard to actual dialogue giving the length of the BoP for ST:III.
Oy! Pick, pick! You think I am talking out of my ass?! j/k So, believe it or not, it was indicated in the Okuda (I believe) text commentary during the movie play (I forget at which point exactly) that the Mmm-Bop was like 110m (or 120m). Mention was also made on the lengths of the Spacedock, the Constitution II, and possibly the Excelsior. It was all mentioned in previous thread, but I can't find it at the moment.
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:...Titan=Prometheus...damn them to hell for messing with our minds!!
What's the deal? Nobody likes the Prometheus class or what? I think he'd be great in that class of ship.
I think that the Prometheus would be a hideous candidate for the Titan. Sure the Prommy is cool in an ass-kickin' rockem' sockem' robot kind of way, but otherwise its just not something I could see Riker commanding. I always kind of thought he would be at home if he had a Galaxy of his own, as he seemed to hold out on a plethora of other class vessels. My big wish, despite the overbearing sense of reality that lies within, is that we could see him in the big chair of an Ambassador one last time. A noble ship for a excellent commander, turned captain.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I sure don't like the Prometheus class! It a terrible design overall and seems to be a strictly combat oriented starship. Riker has always been an explorer at heart so he should have an explorer-oriented starship. A Galaxy is what I imagine the Titan to be. Riker held out for years to get a Galaxy and when one became available, he took it. Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I wouldn't start him out on a Galaxy. Sure, he had Enterprise for a small bit, but that was more a matter of convenience. I'd vernture to guess that Titan is a Nebula. Same idea, a little less prestigious. The gold card rather than the platinum card, as it were.
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: I think it was stated in the STIII SE, clearly, that the 'scout' bird-of-prey was like 110-120m.
Huh? What dialogue is this attributed to? I don't have the SE DVD, but this is the first mention I've heard to actual dialogue giving the length of the BoP for ST:III.
Oy! Pick, pick! You think I am talking out of my ass?! j/k So, believe it or not, it was indicated in the Okuda (I believe) text commentary during the movie play (I forget at which point exactly) that the Mmm-Bop was like 110m (or 120m). Mention was also made on the lengths of the Spacedock, the Constitution II, and possibly the Excelsior. It was all mentioned in previous thread, but I can't find it at the moment.
Glad you took my comments at face value. I really wasn't picking, just wanted to know where that's from. Glad to get a source, tho, 'cause it gives me that much more of a reason to lobby for the ST:III SE DVD next time someone owes me a gift.
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:...Titan=Prometheus...damn them to hell for messing with our minds!!
What's the deal? Nobody likes the Prometheus class or what? I think he'd be great in that class of ship.
quote:I think that the Prometheus would be a hideous candidate for the Titan. Sure the Prommy is cool in an ass-kickin' rockem' sockem' robot kind of way, but otherwise its just not something I could see Riker commanding. I always kind of thought he would be at home if he had a Galaxy of his own, as he seemed to hold out on a plethora of other class vessels. My big wish, despite the overbearing sense of reality that lies within, is that we could see him in the big chair of an Ambassador one last time. A noble ship for a excellent commander, turned captain.
Yeah, true. I always believed he was holding out for Enterprise, tho. Wasn't that also indicated in dialogue in one episode...? One of hte perils of watching all the episodes, back-to-back as I've been doing of late is that they sort of run together sometimes.... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Riker was holding out for the Enterprise. The Galaxy class version.
If Starfleet would make Janeway and admiral, Riker can at least get a Galaxy class!
This is Will Riker: the man credited for stopping the Borg while in command of the Enterprise. He's got to be a legend in the making and very likely an extremely well known starfleet officer.
....although I do prefer the Nebula calss to the Galaxy overall: they should be far more capable starships, what with that giant pod chock full of sensors, weapons and....er....stuff. Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
I am thinking that the U.S.S. Titan would be some large explorer starship class because Deanna would be the ship's counselor on Riker's new command.
Why can't this ship be a new Sovereign-class explorer? Riker said it wasn't the Enterprise, he didn't say it wasn't a Sovereign-class. I thought that his comment was related to leaving Picard and his friends behind, not about the inadequacies or incapabilities of his new command.
If there is a Star Trek XI with Jonathan Frakes as Captain Riker, I hope that they make the Titan a new explorer class that is between the Intrepid and Sovereignin size. I think it would be sad to give him an older explorer design.
I'm not inclined to think that it would be a Galaxy-class starship because Geordi was captain of the Galaxy-class U.S.S. Challenger in thatVoyager episode "Timeless".
So if the Titan needs to be an existing explorer design that we have seen, I would be inclined to think that it was a Nebula class.
As for the idea of a Prometheus-class U.S.S. Titan, I think its not only a bad idea, it is absurd one.
Rick Sternbach mentioned that the Prometheus was a one off ship design and so he didn't get bent out of shape when there was the registry mistake at the FX department. Which I interpreted as meaning that there is only one of this type in the whole of Starfleet.
Further, I personally think that the idea of a "multi-vector attack mode" starship is a recipe for disaster. In order for the three pieces of the ship to be combat capable and survive an engagement, each piece would need to have its own power plant, navigation/control system, targeting system, life support, and other redundant systems. Does each piece have its own warp core? Or does it use some power cell or battery? If it uses a battery, how many minutes or hours can it engage in combat?
After you add all that machinery into each piece, where do you have room for weapon systems, such as torpedo storage? It seems to me that you could only have three small and mediocre starships attached together to make one vehicle the size of the Prometheus.
Also, how well are the three pieces latched together during normal non-combat operations. Could the docking clamps shear away due to stress of the space frames or the ship fly apart at warp speeds?
Although I see some fans rave endlessly about this ship, I think that Rick Sternbach designed a rather silly and very ugly looking starship.
I think that Starfleet would be much better off building three separate starships.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Add to those flaws that if the center piece of the ship is destroyed during the Multi-Vector attack, the ship cannot re-combine in any way. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: Which I interpreted as meaning that there is only one of this type in the whole of Starfleet.
That's generally what the word prototype means.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
As in "failed prototype". Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
I meant that in the sense that Starfleet would not order more starships of this class.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Agreed.
The Prometheus herself will likely remain in service as a testbed for it's advanced technologies and possibly as a fast response vechile for quite some time though.
I could see new ship classes using that style of nacelles or impulse plants....mabye five or six years after Voyager's return.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Speaking of Voyagers return, I just remembered that damn armadillo armor shit it is now outfitted with...that was the last nail in Voyagers coffin, and IMHO, was the most un-Star Trek thing/technology/scene that Star Trek has ever put on the screen.
Now what? SF has a new uber-armor that they install on every ship in the fleet? How can they pass up on such a lucrative technology?
Whatever it is, someones fanboy dream came true... ...and each of us died inside a little more.
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
You mean the armor that was inspired by the batmobile armor shown in Tim Burton's Batman? I wonder if the armor also comes in black?
Don't forget my favorite piece of technology, the transphasic torpedo. One torpedo kills a Borg cube.
Now with that kinda of powerful technology onboard Voyager, you would think that Starfleet would replicate it and deploy it fleet wide. To heck with the Temporal Prime Directive and the Department of Temporal Investigation.
One transphasic torpedo could have finished off the Scimitar. Who needs to meet up with Battle Group Omega? Bye Shinzon!!!
So how in the heck did they put those djinnis (genies) back in their bottles?
Picard refuses to use them on moral grounds?
Probably Section 31 is stockpiling these weapons and technologies somewhere in the Federation. Along with phase cloaking devices, subspace weapons, and biogenic weapons, including Genesis torpedoes.
Don't get smart with us Breen, we'll clean your clocks.
Posted by Revanche (Member # 953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Take a look at the bottom section of the main page of Flare...
I could cry!
Where exactly can I find this link? Do I need special access (i.e. UP3 Development)? Did I miss out?
Why, or why, can I not check these forums sooner?! :damn life:
Posted by TheYoshinator (Member # 1066) on :
Well, I have little love left for Voyager the series. But the ship is another matter. But yes, I do hate that Batmobile armor too.
Keep in mind the future based technology is not "replicated" and distributed into Starfleet for the same reasons that whole starships are not "replicated". Its because they can't replicate everything.
Check your official Starfleet Starship Assembly Manuals. It say's *some assembly required* (tongue firmly in cheek)
Anywho... my guess is that Voyager itself is now classified or Voyager has been stripped of said technology and the technology itself has been classified. It may have even been destroyed in accordance to the Temporal Prime Directive.
And as for Section 31 getting it. Well I think the idea of a Section 31 in the ultimate information age (our future)....is dumb. You can't advance humanity to Roddenberry's vision with a so well hooked in organization such as that existing without no one noticing. PFFFT! A terrorist cell I could buy. But not an org with major classed starships working so atonomously. IIRC, They had an Intrepid class. What? No one noticed one was missing?
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Maybe your're overestimating Section 31. We know nothing. Sloan took the Bellerophon to Romulus and signed Ross' paychecks, but that doesn't mean they "own" that ship. (And the holodeck they used to fool Bashir the first time we met could have been anywhere, maybe they just rented one on a Starbase). S31 has much influence, agreed, but maybe were just talking about one or two dozen people. And the rest doesn't even know for whom they are working (anyone seen Alias?) For all we know, even the Romulan story could be true and Sloane is an insane ex-intelligence freelancer. Or do you have any proof for more? The Founder's disease could have been developed by Starfleet and he stole it or they just made everyone believe it was "Section 31". Aside from his two bodyguards, have we ever seen another S31 operative?
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: As in "failed prototype".
Failed? How was it a failure? Seemed to work fine to me. IIRC, it's only failing was a Romulan takeover of the ship. The two Holo-Boobs seemed to make short work of the Romulan's on-board, as well as a Warbird, after all. Just imagine what a full crew could do with Prometheus....
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Plus, the Prommie probably CAN dock if the middle section is lost - the top and bottom sections do directly meet along the forward edge of the lower hull, where docking interfaces can easily exist.
Wouldn't imagine such a configuation to be terribly fast or efficient, though...
Mark
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
As for the warp cores I seem to remember at one time that the main core on the Prometheus was actually three cores in one... designed similarly to the Intrepid core which has the reaction occur throughout the shaft. In the case of the Prometheus the reaction occurs throughout the shaft and there are extra matter and antimatter injectors for the separate sections [I figure that nifty magnetic constriction helps with directing more than the extra injectors all being inline].
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Plus, the Prommie probably CAN dock if the middle section is lost - the top and bottom sections do directly meet along the forward edge of the lower hull, where docking interfaces can easily exist. Mark
Uh...No. I have built a model of that ship mastered from the original CGI art and there is just no way. The top section is concave to join with the middle part but the bottom third dorsal side of the ship is completely flat to match the middle part's completely flat ventral side of the middle part. Just check the schematics: the connections don't match up and there would be a five deck high open cavity inside the ship if they somehow smashed the ship in there.... http://www.lcarscom.net/74913.htm Check the forward view to see what i mean.
I posted the "failed prototype" comment just to get a rabid response from those that think the prommie is the ultimate in starship design and ws not really serious. Didnt work though...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Triton: You mean the armor that was inspired by the batmobile armor shown in Tim Burton's Batman? I wonder if the armor also comes in black?
Don't forget my favorite piece of technology, the transphasic torpedo. One torpedo kills a Borg cube.
So how in the heck did they put those djinnis (genies) back in their bottles?
The Tech became inert aftera limited time and could not be reproduced. I think Admiral Janeway would have been smart enough not to let that tech fall into the past's (or possibly the future Klingon's) hands. It's the only way to stomach the worst series finally of all time.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
The Titan is a Prommie? Well, if there was any existing class of ship the Titan would be, I imagined it a Prommie. Oh well, i'll design it anyway.
Posted by Darkwing (Member # 834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I posted the "failed prototype" comment just to get a rabid response from those that think the prommie is the ultimate in starship design and ws not really serious. Didnt work though...
Well, I like the Prommie's external appearance, and the shipwide holoemitters was an interesting idea, but that multi-vector assault thing was idiotic. I'd build the second one with only standard saucer separation capability, making a little more room for normal things in the hull like quarters and holodecks and such. Now, the saucer would still have the warp drive, so that'd be an improvement, but I wouldn't bother with splitting the ship up any further than that, and I'd expect it to only be used as often as other ships do saucer separation, instead of making it a standard tactic. And I'd really only keep the routine saucer sep (as opposed to the never seen, but occasionally mentioned emergency saucer sep of TOS) only because it's so established.
For a really workable "multi-vector assault mode", I'd have a set of subcraft that attach to the hull the same way the Captain's yacht does in the Galaxy class and the aeroshuttle for the Intrepid. Those would be large shuttle-size drone fightercraft. All the benefits of the silly multi-vector idea, without the structural drawbacks. I'd probably have a mix of manned and unmanned embedded craft for the purpose, too, for flexibility.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It just bugs me that "only six starfleet officers are qualified to run the ship". Just think: only one borg could take the entire crew! With the ship's internal mass used largly for the multivector and redundant systems (warp and computer cores, life support, deflectors, sensors, navigation, etc.)there really can't be too much room fora decent sized crew. She's lotsa weapons but not much else.
Not the explorer that Riker would want to command.
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
After reviewing Timo's work, the word documents of Starships, i found it very amazing. I agree with one of the replies that it is "close to the holy grail" with the emphasis on close to.
Though there is a few problems with the data, which i don't like. Except for that fact, I find it one of the most strongest starship document out there.
With the report it self, i don't know about adding history into the starship document. Personally I don't care what Kirk or Picard did with the ship, unless it factored into a design change.
I would be willing to sacrifice the 2 seconds of time free that I have to myself everyday in making it stronger, but only in a scrutinizing position (since i only have 2 seconds of free time).
I wouldn't mind seeing this thing published. I would defintely go out and buy a fully illustrated book.
PS, what is going on with UP3
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
What is UP3?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Utopia Planitia 3
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Oy! I gathered that much, I was looking for something a little more 'in-depth', like an explaination of it, perhaps. Thank You.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Si ego certiorum, tu mihi delendum eris. Posted by Revanche (Member # 953) on :
So, is there anywhere we can d/l Timo's document?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
^You haven't thoroughly reviewed this post have you? Try page two, and ye shall find. Posted by CaptainMike[1].mp3 (Member # 709) on :
hrm.. i'm compiling entries for the Galactopedia, but i just can't bring myself to write 'Prometheus-class' next to the Titan..
Posted by Triton (Member # 1043) on :
Well I can understand your feelings Captain Mike. It just seems wrong to me as well. It seems to me that it was a marriage of convenience, Decipher needed to put the "Titan" somewhere in the book and they felt that they needed to use a leading-edge starship class that was less than a Sovereign and more than an Intrepid class starship.
Perhaps you could put it on the Galactopedia and say that the whole thing is an invention of the authors at Decipher and that there is controversy surrounding this starship class choice. Posted by Revanche (Member # 953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: ^You haven't thoroughly reviewed this post have you? Try page two, and ye shall find.
Dude, I coulda swore, the first time that I read this thread, that he made mention of something located on the main page of Flare.
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). But that wouldn't take you one step closer to the Grail.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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