I'm watching the rerun of "Interface" on TNN right now. In one of the early scenes on the Bridge, they're talking about rescuing the crew of the Raman, which may still be alive inside the ship -- all seven of them.
Wait, all SEVEN of them? Even on an old Oberth, that's still a pitiful crew complement. But it's what they said! Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Automation is a wonderful thing.
One wonders, though...for smaller vessels that have no need for "high stress situations" like line ships, might they perhaps have a lot of things done by robots? I don't mean androids, I mean robots, like we have them on assembly lines & such. Maybe the computer intelligence is programmed to control them & watch over the funtions. Instead of beeping a noise or flashing a light, the indicator directive goes to a duty bot that handles & "oversees" that function or several of them.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That number's total crap: another case of the script refrencing a small ship and the VFX department either being limited in budget or not paying attention or some combonation of both.
The only sanity saving measure is to either disregard the line or assume he meant "the seven survivors of the Raman".
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Another (probably explainable) problem: Geordi's just said that there were "over 300 people" on the Hera. Now, if they were using the same issues of automation as on the Ramon, then it's acceptable. But even so, a Nebula-class starship with so few crew members would be a contradiction of everything we know (though it isn't much) about those ships. Might the Hera not actually be a Nebula-class after all? It only got that designation from the Encyclopedia, anyway...
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
A crew of 300, mostly Vulcans.
As we all know, Vulcans are the epitome of Nietzsche's �bermenschen in Trek, therefore 300 of them are like 800 of us poor piddly pisspoor Earthers.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The Equinox was a stupid idea - it would have been nice to see the Hera - if it indeed had been transported away by the Caretaker - which it could have... infact seeing as this was a season 7 episode - do you think they were hinting at such a fact - as they peppered season 7 with a lot of Voyager tie-ins.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Well, on the same note, the Yosemite only had like a crew of 6 or something...so maybe the old mules were going heavily automated, like suggested, in their final days of service (suggesting they were totally replaced by Nova's).
On a footnote, I would have been interested in seeing a Voyager episode with the Hera in place of the Equinox or even another fresh idea altogether...oh well.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I cannot imagine the thinking that assumes that a story would somehow by improved by a pointless connection to another story.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Oh man....they're showing that crappy episode with the Raman right now.
Man does it suck. Does Geordi really think that completely emotionless vision of his mamma is really her? The Enterprise crew has encountered a LOT of weird shit, but this is too damn dumb.
Another horrid "non-coporeal lifeform" episode that should have been scrapped. Towards the last couple of seasons all the bridge crew got at least one really lame episode centering on them.
Except Riker: he got dick.
Jesus fuck: They're playing the "deanna's-dead- long-lost-sister" horseshit now. Time to watch CNN ot possibly fork out my eyes or something less painful than this episode.
[ July 25, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
In the Star Trek: Companion, Larry Nemecek writes for the episode "Interface" that the USS Raman was not intended as an Oberth. There were plans for building a new ship which were cancelled.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Thanks for confirmation. That was my assumption as well. We've seen it a couple of times when the Oberth model was used.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I cannot imagine the thinking that assumes that a story would somehow by improved by a pointless connection to another story.
mr know all, be all strikes again....
as if any of it really matters. all i meant is that that would have make for a better 'lets tie in the alpha quadrant'-type episode than a lot of the other crap they tried.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
While I agree in part with Sol System's thinking that needless tie-ins suck, I do wish they had shown Geordi recovering from the disapearance (and presumed death) of his mother in later episodes....or any follow-up on a lot of the emotionally trying shit the TNG crew went through.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
First of all, huh?
Second of all, how does replacing "Captain Savage" or whatever his name was (Come to think of it, ______ Savage was the name of the actor, wasn't it?) with "Geordi's mom" do anything at all to improve the quality of anything? "Well, I've now got a vendetta...against Geordi's mom!" "You don't know what it's like. We'd be dead without...Geordi's mom!" Pointless. Swapping out one set of new characters for another doesn't change anything. All you'd get would be a shorter episode title.
Lastly, why is it that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this? I wasn't even sassing!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
You can't have an opinion until you officially change your name to "Mr. Know It All" (your byline can be "strikes again!"). Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
you're messing with forces you don't understand. Simon's reality checks, while sometimes acerbic, are usually spot on. YUO WILL NOT GET TEH POWARUP IF YOU TRY TO FIHGT THE MINIBOSS !! Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: First of all, huh?
Second of all, how does replacing "Captain Savage" or whatever his name was (Come to think of it, ______ Savage was the name of the actor, wasn't it?) with "Geordi's mom" do anything at all to improve the quality of anything? "Well, I've now got a vendetta...against Geordi's mom!" "You don't know what it's like. We'd be dead without...Geordi's mom!" Pointless. Swapping out one set of new characters for another doesn't change anything. All you'd get would be a shorter episode title.
Lastly, why is it that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this? I wasn't even sassing!
I agree that it might have been better to include some closure for Georgi in a later episode. However, I liked the idea of Ransom and am glad they didn't portray Geordi's mom as the captain of either Equinox or her own Hera. It just seems that it would have clashed w/what I think Geordi's mom would have been like, seeing as we've got a very idealistic, positive thinking and consist character in Geordi LaForge. It would be an inconsistancy to have Mom be like Ransom, lacking in morals just so she could get her crew home.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
plus one of "Interface"'s main points is that it wasn't getting closure.. the writer was getting a tad iconoclastic, because the star trek clich� is that, if a ship is lost, they'll find it in one hour minus commercials. the fact that Geordi's mom was gone and there was no way to get her back was trying to prove something.. it would be a cheap story device that brought her back, and would invalidate the thrust of the episode..
plus, it would be, like, boring and shitty.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I didn't say specifially..lets replace Equinox with Hera and call it the same episode. Something fresh with the Hera found in the DQ would have been suitable as well. And since it seems to be insisted upon that the Hera and Captain LaForge were in place of Equinox, I wouldn't want her to replace Capt. Ransom...that would be a stupid idea, but then again, I never said it in the first place, I merely implied or wanted Voyager to resolve a known missing ship that can be related to...instead of making up a whole new ship altogether Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
but one of the main things the writer of "Interface" wanted Geordi to deal with was that his mother wasn't coming back, and that he couldn't know why or do anything about it. this is pretty intense for Trek characters who are used to saving the day. considering that parts of the episode were piss poor, keeping the central theme intact seems that much more important.
not that i wouldnt be against voyager finding a known quantity in the DQ.. its just that when they did tht it usually just reeked of 'hey, we're really stretching for a continuity reference here'. like the ferengi episode.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
...but Geordi wouldn't necessarily find resolution though Voyager finding the Hera...any number of things could easily prevent that from happening without digging too ddep, including the fact that Voyager wasn't in contact with Earth.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Uh...if the episode has any redeeming quality it's that it show space is both dangerous and VERY VERY LARGE: infinite in fact. Having Voyager find the Hera would have shown Trek's universe to be far too small. After all, look at naval shipping: even with GPS technology, ships occasionally disapear and are pronounced lost......and the oceans are just a tad smaller than outer space. Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
at least somebody gets it
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
blah blah blah
i certainly never intended an innocent footnote to turn into this...
And despite now big speace is...Voyager still managed to do at least nine "space is big but here's another pointless Alpha Quadrant reference" episode...and countless other conveinent Earth-based episodes...i just thought the Hera or something lost i've seen before besides lost Ferengi would have been a bit bettter, but then again, that's my opinion.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
But the Ferengi you speak of were a tie-in to a previous Star Trek episode. Unless you're talking about the ones who wanted to collect a nice sample of Borg nanoprobes, which sounds like a perfectly reasonable business opportunity (and story) to me, if a bit unethical, like writing software for the RIAA.
Posted by Darkwing (Member # 834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: I agree that it might have been better to include some closure for Georgi in a later episode. However, I liked the idea of Ransom and am glad they didn't portray Geordi's mom as the captain of either Equinox or her own Hera. It just seems that it would have clashed w/what I think Geordi's mom would have been like, seeing as we've got a very idealistic, positive thinking and consist character in Geordi LaForge. It would be an inconsistancy to have Mom be like Ransom, lacking in morals just so she could get her crew home. [/QB]
Ah, but if, say, Ransom had been the ranking survivor of the Hera, and Geordi's mom died, then the idea would work. Seriously, had they gone to that trouble, it would've worked and made a small tie-in, which would've been nice, but otherwise not changed much, considering where voyager was. Better would have been inclusion of later TNG eps of a sprinkling of dialogue that showed Geordi still grieving, but coping. 20 seconds of him leaving Troi's office as Riker comes to consult her about the forehead-problem of the week, maybe, or a few seconds of Guinan commiserating as picard shows the alien ambassador Ten-Forward acouple weeks later, would all have been nice without requiring a full ep devoted to it while adding a little personal depth and layering to the character.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But the Ferengi you speak of were a tie-in to a previous Star Trek episode. Unless you're talking about the ones who wanted to collect a nice sample of Borg nanoprobes, which sounds like a perfectly reasonable business opportunity (and story) to me, if a bit unethical, like writing software for the RIAA.
I meant that the Ferengi episode ("False Profits") was a bad tie in, and if it sounds as if I did, what I meant was that a tie-in with the Hera would mean more to "continuity of lost things we're aware of" through the series than the number of *random* finds Voyager made.
The entire premise of Geordi's argument about the Hera was that it could have been displaced by its touchy trionic warp doohickeys which possibly created an artificial funnel thing (if memory serves). Finding the Hera lost in the DQ could have confirmed Geordis theory...and gave the viewer a tie-in with TNG and Earth with something that they have seen before or are familiar with, such as the Ferengi/Barazan Wormhole episode or the one where they find Amelia Earhart.
In contrast, they threw a bunch of *random* bunk at us of other things lost in the DQ that Voyager beat the odds in finding...the Raven tops my list on that. Then there was the *random* finds such as: the old Klingon Battlecruiser, "Dreadnought", the "Equinox", the "Friendship One" probe, the "Ares IV" probe...we never knew they were missing/lost/etc yet the writers felt it necessary to find them...to me, that is more boring than a meaningful AQ tie-in, if that was they were intent on shoving down our throats.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Now I'm confused. "False Profits" was what you're asking for, no? An episode tying into a TNG episode.
In retrospect, most of the episodes you list that come from the last season can now be understood as thematic links to Enterprise.
Anyway, it's a big galaxy.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
"False Profits" is what I meant all along.
I originally said:
"...despite how big space is...Voyager still managed to have like nine "space is big, but here's another pointless Alpha Quadrant reference" episode...and countless other conveinent Earth-based episodes. I just thought the Hera, or something lost, i've seen before besides lost Ferengi would have been a bit bettter, but then again, that's my opinion."
Hmm, I guess to translate my hasty post: Seeing something on Voyager supposedly lost that Trek has shown or mentioned before, other than the Ferengi (in "False Profits"), would have been a better show, IMHO, than something we haven't seen before. The Hera would have been one such thing that Trek has shown or mentioned before, the Equinox would not.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yeah, but...what's the difference? The Ferengi show up and you don't like it? But if the Hera had you would have? This is the part I'm confused about.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Except Riker: he got dick.
Who's dick?
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Jesus fuck: They're playing the "deanna's-dead- long-lost-sister" horseshit now. Time to watch CNN ot possibly fork out my eyes or something less painful than this episode.
HEY! That is one of Lwaxana's best eps.
Dark Page Progress Half A Life
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: First of all, huh?
Second of all, how does replacing "Captain Savage" or whatever his name was (Come to think of it, ______ Savage was the name of the actor, wasn't it?) with "Geordi's mom" do anything at all to improve the quality of anything? "Well, I've now got a vendetta...against Geordi's mom!" "You don't know what it's like. We'd be dead without...Geordi's mom!" Pointless. Swapping out one set of new characters for another doesn't change anything. All you'd get would be a shorter episode title.
Lastly, why is it that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this? I wasn't even sassing!
OK - this is SO not what I meant. I mean - if they wanted a story with ANOTHER lost Starfleet Ship - the Hera would have been better to have than the whole Equinox story line. There's a ship out there mostly full of Vulcans... and seeing as Madge Sinclair had died after "Interface" - they could have had her character as dying on transit through the Caretaker's 'ride'.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote: Yeah, but...what's the difference? The Ferengi show up and you don't like it? But if the Hera had you would have? This is the part I'm confused about.
Wow, no...all I am saying, or have said, is that the episode with the Ferengi was really all we saw in respect of "lost and then found again despite all odds" and that seeing-an-episode-about-the-Hera-in-a-similar-vein would have more preferable than an episode about a random encounter with a random AQ ship such as the Equinox...
EDIT - Also, if you confusion comes in part from: "I meant that the Ferengi episode ("False Profits") was a bad tie in, and if it sounds as if I did, what I meant was that a tie-in with the Hera would mean more to "continuity of lost things we're aware of" through the series than the number of *random* finds Voyager made."
Make that was to a was not and I have no idea how that slipped through the cracks, prolly makes my whole statement sound a little more sensical. Amazing what 3 letters can do.
P.S. - Please! Bring back the longer-edit-time for posts, two hours or whatever it is at blows goats.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But the Ferengi you speak of were a tie-in to a previous Star Trek episode. Unless you're talking about the ones who wanted to collect a nice sample of Borg nanoprobes, which sounds like a perfectly reasonable business opportunity (and story) to me, if a bit unethical, like writing software for the RIAA.
I meant that the Ferengi episode ("False Profits") was a bad tie in, and if it sounds as if I did, what I meant was that a tie-in with the Hera would mean more to "continuity of lost things we're aware of" through the series than the number of *random* finds Voyager made.
The entire premise of Geordi's argument about the Hera was that it could have been displaced by its touchy trionic warp doohickeys which possibly created an artificial funnel thing (if memory serves). Finding the Hera lost in the DQ could have confirmed Geordis theory...and gave the viewer a tie-in with TNG and Earth with something that they have seen before or are familiar with, such as the Ferengi/Barazan Wormhole episode or the one where they find Amelia Earhart.
In contrast, they threw a bunch of *random* bunk at us of other things lost in the DQ that Voyager beat the odds in finding...the Raven tops my list on that. Then there was the *random* finds such as: the old Klingon Battlecruiser, "Dreadnought", the "Equinox", the "Friendship One" probe, the "Ares IV" probe...we never knew they were missing/lost/etc yet the writers felt it necessary to find them...to me, that is more boring than a meaningful AQ tie-in, if that was they were intent on shoving down our throats.
Futurama Guy is the ONLY one to get what I originally mentioned.
Finding the Hera doesn't mean Geordi immediately knows. It is indeed the whole idea of them just inventing up new ships and alpha quadrant tie-ins when they have a (possible) few already.
Andrew
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Yeah, but...
"Hm. We need a lost ship for Voyager to meet." "Hey, what about the Hera? Everyone will get the tie-in." "GREAT IDEA!!11!11!"
Episode airs. 12 of us: "Hey, the Hera!" 650 million others: "Huh?"
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darkwing: Ah, but if, say, Ransom had been the ranking survivor of the Hera, and Geordi's mom died, then the idea would work. Seriously, had they gone to that trouble, it would've worked and made a small tie-in, which would've been nice, but otherwise not changed much, considering where voyager was.[/qb]
Only problem with this is that Capt. LaForge was in command of a ship with - as quoted above - 300 Vulcans as the crew. I don't see the same ethical problem coming up as we had on the "Equinox" two-parter, as I seriously doubt the Vulcan's would have "overlooked" the use of alien life-forms as a fuel source that happened w/Ransom & Co. ENT excluded, we've never seen a Vulcan who didn't have some morales. Well, Pon Farr not counting, of course.
quote:Better would have been inclusion of later TNG eps of a sprinkling of dialogue that showed Geordi still grieving, but coping. 20 seconds of him leaving Troi's office as Riker comes to consult her about the forehead-problem of the week, maybe, or a few seconds of Guinan commiserating as picard shows the alien ambassador Ten-Forward acouple weeks later, would all have been nice without requiring a full ep devoted to it while adding a little personal depth and layering to the character. [/QB]
I agree that it might have been more interesting to have brought better closure to Geordi, but it wasn't in bringing Hera back. Showing him leaving counseling sessions w/Troi would have been great. Or maybe Geordi and Data reminiscing about his mom in Ten Forward, the Holodeck, engineering, what have you. Any combination thereof would have fairly decent and not taken away much from the "A Story" in an episode. That's one thing that I wasn't liking much the last couple seasons of TNG: they weren't doing a lot of follow-thru background stuff as they did before. Well, unless you count yet another tie-in to another Klingon Story involving Worf.... Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks:
quote:Originally posted by Darkwing: Ah, but if, say, Ransom had been the ranking survivor of the Hera, and Geordi's mom died, then the idea would work. Seriously, had they gone to that trouble, it would've worked and made a small tie-in, which would've been nice, but otherwise not changed much, considering where voyager was.
Only problem with this is that Capt. LaForge was in command of a ship with - as quoted above - 300 Vulcans as the crew. I don't see the same ethical problem coming up as we had on the "Equinox" two-parter, as I seriously doubt the Vulcan's would have "overlooked" the use of alien life-forms as a fuel source that happened w/Ransom & Co. ENT excluded, we've never seen a Vulcan who didn't have some morales. Well, Pon Farr not counting, of course. [/QB]
And for me that is why I was getting at maybe even a fresh story altogether, they have been known to happen. As far as Equinox, that very easily could have been an 'alien of the week' episode where Voyager 'saves the day', but to make it 'hit home' more they made it a 'Starfleet vessel' and make it a finale/premiere...but, to me, the problem was..."Equinox??", "Nova-class??", "An old Academy boyfriend of B'Lanna", "the fucked up Yridian reference", "Cool ship design", but what the hell is this? Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The "old boyfriend" tie-in with B'Lanna was total crap: the odds of that are litereally up there with my winning the lottery with a quick-pick.
Another problem with the Hera replacing the Equinox in the story is that a Nebula class ship would easily swat Voyager (based on the battles of the USS Phionex at least).
A LOT would have to re-written to make the Hera being there work.
As long as we're on the topic of failed follow-ups: What ever happened to Lore?!? (it's assumed he was disassembled, but where is his parts? data would'nt just destroy the parts (and end his life) and I doubt they'd be destroyed in Enterprise D's crash.
...oh well, at least I get to read about what happened to Ro in the DS9 books. Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think this thread has eaten its own tail.
All I'm thinking, and I think this is all I really have to say about this, is that I don't see what "False Profits" has to do with anything. It was an episode whose structure was explicitly based on a TNG episode, and it wasn't really all that good. (Though, it's been awhile since I've seen it.) I'd argue that it not being very good had little to do with its TNG connection. Thus, how can we use it as a guide to anything? Obviously, having a TNG reference does not make for an inherently better episode. And once we've shown that, all things being equal, the roots of a story have far less to do with its overall quality than other factors, the question of whether or not the Equinox being the Hera would improve (or unimprove) the eponymous episode becomes rather moot, don't you think?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Nebbie v Intrepid - depends on the circumstances.
I agree with Futurama Guy - NOT having the Equinox story line with the alien beings as fuel - a whole new story could have been really fantastic with a crew of mainly 300 Vulcans and I would assume other peoples as the minority.
I reckon they could have had Captain La Forge as having died on the way (cause Madge Sinclair had already passed away by that time).
You could have had seen what nearly 7 years in the Delta Quadrant would have done to all these Vulcans.
There could be 'struggles' between the Vulcans and Non-Vulcans.
A Question of is it Kathryn Janeway who has basically allowed Voyager to survive all those years were another ship failed?
A Tuvok/Ponfarr opportunity?
A difference in opinion as to how to get home? Vulcans being more methodical and less risk taking than Janeway?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Its not really Hera v Equinox per se - it's more like the Equinox idea was full of clich�s.
The Hera - was something to use that had more interesting ideas for a story.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The equinox story would have just been improved tenfold with about a season's worth of foreshadowing. Y'know...Voyager hears of another Starfleet ship, finds some debris or a derilict sensor probe from Equinox and eventually makes audio contact while weeks away.... If it was built up more and if there was some follow-up with the promising characters that stayed aboard Voyager at the two-parter's end, I'd be a much bigger fan of the Episode.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
. . . Actually. . . It occurs to me, if it had been Geordi's Mum in command of the ship Voyager encountered, then quite likely she'd have died in the end, right? Which would put Geordi's pursuit of the surviving Voyager crewmembers in "Timeless" in a WHOLE new light. You wouldn't just have Evil Geordi's Mum, you'd have Evil Geordi!
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
But Braxton wasn't even around.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
1 - USS Yosemite, an Oberth-class ship from TNG "Realm of Fear", had a crew of five.
2 - Madge Sinclair, who played Geordi's mom, died some time before "Equinox". I guess they could have recast her role, or given it to the inexperienced first/second officer, who'd help justify some of Ransom's command ineptitudes...
Mark
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Believe it or not, aside from some of the incredulities, I actually enjoyed "Equinox" -- at least, the overall story, if not some of the details.
It's possible that the plot line could've involved the Hera instead... as has been suggested, the "inexperienced" first officer could've been in command instead. But with a ship of mostly Vulcans, how much fun would that be? Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
I, too, enjoyed the "Equinox" two-parter. However, MiniutiaeMan echoes my thoughts about the crew of mostly Vulcan's. If you went w/that premise and the situation we see in the episode, it'd be rather boring, IMO.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
At the time I remember thinking that maybe what should happen is that Voyager gets destroyed, and what's left of both crews continues on in the Equinox. . . and by "what's left" I meant that some of the original cast would buy it.
Perish the thought, of course. Star Trek is far too rigidly formulaic for that. Oh, sure, there are practical considerations - could you have a show named Voyager without the ship named Voyager? Also, departing cast members' contracts for the seven year run (not that that stopped them dumping Jennifer Lien) - but I think it would have given the edge they never even bothered to get from the Maquis-Starfleet mix in the first place.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think, though, that if Voyager had been the kind of show to take that sort of risk, it wouldn't have needed to. Which is to say, those sorts of stories would have already been told, or in the process of being told.
It would have been interesting to see a show in which it was the Maquis ship that survived, with the Starfleet ship getting sacrificed to save the day. Not that I think any of Voyager's problems were a result of its premise.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think if they used the Hera instead of the Equinox then the "Good Captain/Bad Captain" role would be reversed. With the Vulcans having a 200 to 300 year life span I don't think they'd be in any particular hurry to shortcut home. A seventy year trip must seam like just an extended cruise to them.
That might have been a slightly more interesting dynamic, with Janeway acting irresponsibly (shock horror) in the Vulcan XO's eyes.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Did ANYONE read my post about the Hera idea instead of the Equinox. I'm talking about ditching the whole Equinox episode idea - and using a ship like the Hera opens up a whole new avenue of story possibilities. I even mentioned how to deal/make the Vulcans interesting.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Aw, poor baby. Issa widdle Andy feeling ignored? Welcome to my world - no-one's paid attention to a thing I've said here in three years. I could say "The Defiant is a Valiant-class starship" and no-one would notice. 8)
But, you see, CAN they make Vulcans interesting? We now have Enterprise, from the same creative team, which features major Vulcan characters and storylines, and - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. . . My hair?! Oh, sorry, I nodded off for a moment. . .
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Yeah, but...what's the difference? The Ferengi show up and you don't like it? But if the Hera had you would have? This is the part I'm confused about.
Perhaps because it was the Ferengi?
I would point out that the connection to a TNG ep DID likely make the episode better than I would have been. Otherwise you'd have had Ferengi sitting in the middle of nowhere next to a very nice pseudo-stable wormhole that the crew knew about but that nobody on our side of the camera had ever heard of. It may have sucked, but at least it was an attempt at some sort of continuity, which makes it that much better than Voyager's later attempts at retroactively inserting things into earlier seasons. And as for the probability of finding the Hera or the Equinox, well, any ships that got pulled into the DQ by the Caretaker would likely take at least reasonably similar courses to get home, no? For that at least they might have a reasonable excuse.
I'm curious: given the apparent existence of at least a couple fan-made sci-fi series (EFC:Restoration and Star Trek Renaissance) which seem to be of decent quality, has anyone considered rewriting Voyager? The premise WAS cool, after all, and the writers did have some neat ideas, even if they hadn't a clue how to handle them properly.
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