Anyone have info on how the effect was created in TOS showing planets in space, when the E was in orbit, etc. Just wondering if they used a painted sphere or if it was flat artwork rotated under a matte.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
They had to have painted a sphere, because several times we saw a body rotating behind the ship. Or at least changing a bit of perspective as they passed...
Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
If you can find it somewhere, I think that the 30th anniversary Trek issue from CINEFANTASTIQUE has got a good hunk of material on the fx end of things, and there are some credible sounding quotes in there. As I recall, Westheimer and at least one of the other fx houses used a rotating globe, but from some shows, I think other companies just matted animated artwork onto a circle shape.
I interviewed Richard Edlund a number of years back, and tried to get him to talk about the Trek FX (working at Westheimer was one of his first jobs, a full decade prior to his being the #2 guy at ILM on STAR WARS), but he seemed really embarassed about Trek and just changed the subject back to SW. Strange, cuz a lot of the planet fx in TOS look much better than early NextGen, with their dog turd shoeprints mapped onto spheres and such. Except for NASA reference stuff, I don't think I remember any planets looking good on NextGen till about yr 5 or so.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
What episodes of TNG used NASA reference stuff, out of curiousity? I do vaguely recall that some planets in TNG looked a lot more detailed than others (Mintaka III, for instance).
What about Earth, in both TNG and TOS (and DS9's "Past Tense", for that matter)? How was that done?
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
ive seen behind the scenes pictures of both TOS and TNG effects teams having large spherical planet models on filming stands, although i do hold the belief that certain planets on TOS were made using a sliding matte.. also, i believe that TOS made different planets by adjusting or inverting the hue and color scheme of some basic original planet footage.
TOS's Earth was a globe, topographically accurate but lacking any indication of clouds whatsoever..
Mintaka was detailed because they needed it to look breathtaking for the scenes where it freaks the shit out of the Mintakan chick.. basically, the planets that werent meant to be noticed were cheaply detailed unless the script called for more detail
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So since Earth was the only planet in TNG to have clouds ( that I recall ), were they just painted on the globe, or animated later?
Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
I don't know of ANY instance when NextGen used a globe, they just wrapped textures (be it photographic or some other) on sphere shapes in the computer, or in some cases on circle shapes in the computer. You can get some good bg on early NextGen stuff in Cinefex 37, out of print, but on ebay on occasion (I'll be selling mine soon enough)
As for when TNG started using (or modifying) NASA reference for textures, I'm pretty sure it was with FAMILY or BOBW, since prior to that the planets all look pretty bad.
There were some custom cloud effects done on TNG using nitrogen gas, like the Matt Freuer episode, while for GENERATIONS, ILM used cg cloud stuff over a planetscape that was based in large part on images of rusty corroded metal.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
one of the DVD bonuses that someone took caps from showed the TNG art area, there were lots of familiar items present from the TNG era, and there was a globe on a filming stand.. i believe it was a series of caps that we were trying to identify a Nebula variant on an artists des or somesuch
Posted by thelastguardian (Member # 1017) on :
As recently as TMP (and well after that), spherical models were used in Trek. During my visit to Stage Nine, I saw the Jupiter model used in the Enterprise's exit from the solar system. A very nicely airbrushed representation. Rapping on it with a knuckle, it felt like a billiard ball.
Shane
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
From the original title sequence, or the third season one?
Actually, did the third season one even have Jupiter in it?
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
the third season credits no longer featured the Sol system but instead other more colorful stellar phenomena.. it was the same for the rest of the series, except for season 5 where the title text was on fire for no reason, and season 6 or 7 they started having exaggerated capital letters on the casts names
Posted by thelastguardian (Member # 1017) on :
I was referring to TMP, as I stated. When the Enterprise leaves the solar system, it passes Jupiter -- which was an airbrushed model about 3 feet in diameter.
Shane
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Oh yeah. My bad.
But aren't the planets shown in the third season TNG title sequence still awfully similar to Sol system planets? I'm sure they show a planet that looks at least a fair bit like Jupiter. Or Saturn. Ahh, memory is bad!
And what was up with that 5th season 3d title thing anyway?
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
http://lobotomy.pleh.net/~flareupload/uploads/293/okuda.jpg here's the cap i remember.. from the 'did Okuda put his disk on teh Nebula or is it a variant *pant pant drool drool* thread' ... prob'ly is Jupiter.. i wonder .. did they use the same Jupiter for TMP -> TNG s1+2 opening -> any other jovian appearance?
the s3-on version of the TNG opening shows an energy field, then a comet flying towards a sun, flashes to a red moon around a gray crater-planet, then a ringed planet with eruptions on its surface (that make sound effects!).. certainly they are Sol System-like planets, but d0nt seem to represent the actual system anymore (i believe i read about this somewhere, after s1 and s2 passed someone watched the titles and was like "How come theyre still flying around near Earth.. lets actually have the opening take place someplace where no man has gone before or something"
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That Jupiter model looks a lot more detailed than the the one used for season 1+2.
And I'm pretty sure that's the milky way, rather than a sun that the comet is flying towards in the title sequence. Hang on, let me find screengrabs.
Posted by CaptainMike20X6 (Member # 709) on :
no, thats true enough.. i just watched in the unmatchable 320x200 format,so i didnt bother to squint and notice the galaxyness of the formation
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by thelastguardian: I was referring to TMP, as I stated. When the Enterprise leaves the solar system, it passes Jupiter -- which was an airbrushed model about 3 feet in diameter.
Shane
I was at the TMP Art Dept in 89 and it was still there. It's only painted on one side (the back is white), and it's about 16" in diameter.
Posted by thelastguardian (Member # 1017) on :
I don't believe there was a TMP Art Department in 1989. By then, TNG had taken over the stages and offices, and the sets had been redressed.
The Jupiter model I saw in 1986 was a good bit larger than whatever model you're talking about. May have been as small as thirty inches, but certainly not sixteen. It was mounted on a black stand maybe 3-4 feet high. I was impressed by its size.
Shane
Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
That TMP Jupiter mentioned earlier was painted by Adolph Schaller, a guy who used to do a lot of work for NASA and ASTRONOMY magazine covers. He worked with Trumbull again on BRAINSTORM, doing 40 separate paintings on glass that were combined for a single shot, that 'galaxy fly-through' near the end, which is still one of the most impressive and evocative space shots I've ever seen.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by thelastguardian: I don't believe there was a TMP Art Department in 1989. By then, TNG had taken over the stages and offices, and the sets had been redressed.Shane
I meant TNG. Mike Okuda told me it was left over from the first movie. The one I was was no bigger than 16".
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The one behind happy smiling Mr Okuda certainly doesn't look 3 feet in diameter.
Posted by thelastguardian (Member # 1017) on :
Again, the one I saw on Stage Nine was much larger than 16 inches. The one you saw must have been a different one.