This is topic Spacedock Realization... in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Forgive me if it's been covered before, but I can't find it in the forum history. I just noticed something about a spacedock cap in another thread:



Now granted, this isn't the original model as seen in the previous film, which was destroyed. But if it was built to the original plans...

Mark
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
What, that white circled thing? I always figured there would be shuttlebays inside Spacedock, even if we didn't see them directly.

Or are you thinking of something else?
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Well, remember this old debate?



Mark
 

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Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
 
OK I'm totally lost as to what you're on about, Mark. Being a relative newbie, I guess I missed out on that debate. In the second pic you post, it sorta looks to me as if the item directly below that one landing-pad lookin' thing is what I've heard of as being I.D. as a possible cargo ship. Is that what you're getting at? It's apparently not there in the ST:IV shot, right?
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
That's basically it. For the longest time, people had been debating whether or not that ship was indeed a ship, or some structure on the side of the "pier". Fan analysis had essentially concluded that it was a ship, but that first picture is about as close to black-and-white proof that it isn't normally there.

Mark
 

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Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
 
Whoa, nice work Mark. From comparing the two pictures, I'd say most of the details are there. Extrapolate that to the rest of the model, and I'd say the two models were built with the same plans.

What happened to the orignal model?
 

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Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
That's basically it. For the longest time, people had been debating whether or not that ship was indeed a ship, or some structure on the side of the "pier". Fan analysis had essentially concluded that it was a ship, but that first picture is about as close to black-and-white proof that it isn't normally there.

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Kewel! Do I win a prize?
 

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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
One could very easily put a major dent in the cargo ship theory by noting that it's possible that the core segment seen in 4 is not the same POV as the entry POV in 3.
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
But given the Starfleet penchant for symmetrical and generally clean design aesthetic, the odds are not the best for that theory.

And I clain a prize for myself for pointint this out in the first place. Biiiiii-dah.

Mark
 

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Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
I might add that according to the DVD text commentary, the Spacedock interior miniature wasn't rebuilt from scratch (which is what some people seam to think) but it was refurbished after being dismantled and put into storage.

Despite this I do agree that said structure was meant to be a ship of some sort, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was originally glued onto the dock and was snapped off in storage, hence it's absence in ST:IV.

As for the arrangement of the supposedly free floating ships in Spacedock at the end of TVH; Perhaps they were in a holding pattern waiting for clearance to either dock or depart.
Given the recent crisis I wouldn't be at all surprised if the dock had a bit of a backlog to clear.

For reference here is an analysis of the parking arrangement I made a while ago for the previous thread.


 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
But given the Starfleet penchant for symmetrical and generally clean design aesthetic, the odds are not the best for that theory.

And I clain a prize for myself for pointint this out in the first place. Biiiiii-dah.

Mark

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Well nahh nahh - I first pointed out the cargo ship which was met with outbursts and objections

I was going to point out about the lack of cargo ship in STIV but I knew I'd be shot down again!
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Where does that USS Intrepid label come from?
 

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Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
 
Read this thread: Avenger/Miranda class Intrepid?
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
*does so* Ahh. . .
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
At the risk of 'can-o-worm'ing, are we sure the first ship Kirk & Co's travel pod overflies is a Constitution? It's definitely not a Miranda, but if it were a Constitution, I'd expect to see the after end of the saucer in frame on the right side of the picture.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
 
I've kinda of wondered that, myself. Is it possible that it's got to do w/the angle? Maybe it's a Federation class refit dreadnought nacelle...?

Nah, then you'd definitely see the saucer in that pic.

*Sigh* Guess I need to pull that tape out and watch it again. You guys put me thru such torture here, makin' me think and forcing me to watch Trek movies....

Thanks!
 

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Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
 
Here's a tip, with those vidcaps, ramp the Gamma up to see details.
 

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Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
 
What else could it have been besides a Constitution? AFAIK, the only two models with that nacelle in existence at that time were the TMP E and the Reliant. If there had been a third film-quality movie-era miniature, surely we would have seen it somewhere by now. Hell, if they'd had another, never-before-seen design ready to go, why would they have re-used the Reliant model for the Saratoga?
 

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Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
 
Incidentally, here's that freighter-thingy, as well as one of the Phase II models (thanks Bernd):

 

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Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 
Could this be another ship?
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Is that sarcasm?
 

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Posted by Sargon (Member # 1090) on :
 

quote:

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Could this be another ship?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Spike:
Could this be another ship?

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quote:

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Originally posted by TSN:
Is that sarcasm?

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Yep. The absence of the structure in TVH does not necessarily indicate a ship.
 

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Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by J:

2) In Guardian's pic I see two ships and shuttle... right above the shuttle is one ship and in the bottom right is another... which one are you talking about?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Guardian 2000:
Incidentally, here's that freighter-thingy, as well as one of the Phase II models (thanks Bernd):

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I'm sorry, but where the hell do you see a "freighter-thingy" amoung the black, the rear of the Enterprise and the blue lights??

quote:

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Originally posted by TheYoshinator:
Watch the pods from the far side of Enterprise E... they book a** across the scene and leave the frame.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TheYoshinator:
I seriously doubt that they spent a bunch of money by building another model, such as a dreadnaught, just for that tarvel pod scene.

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Well, when I said "It could be a dreadnought", I was pretty much joking. Y'know, sarcasm? I realize they wouldn't have spent money just to make a dreadnought, no matter how much us "fanboys" would like it.

Glad we could keep you amused, tho....
 

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Posted by kmart (Member # 1092) on :
 
I remember mixing it up with somebody over that 'ledge' about 15 months back on trekbbs or trekweb, and one poster, to my utter surprise, came up with an enhanced image that certainly looked more like a ship than a structural element.

At the time, nobody could figure out what the ship might be, but one guess was that the 'ledge' model, if it IS a ship, is a complete or partial prototype for the MERCHANTMAN or some other throwaway bg ship. ILM built study models for several ships in III, which is attested to by some pics in ART OF TREK and, so I'm told, in the supplement on the newer DVD, so if you combine those possibilities with the Phase II stuff (god knows how they wound up with those!), there are a lot of mixNmatch possibilities.

I've read interviews with Scott Farrar that indicate the ships in spacedock had to be shot separately since none of them scaled, but I wonder if he is really only talking about the shuttles and E and EX. Since the Phase 2 thing is conveniently half-tucked away behind a structural element and the ledge/ship/whatsis is also affixed to the structure, there'd be no need to shoot them as separate elements, especially as they don't look like they are loaded with lights.

The fact that no mention is made of these other ships in Cinefex or Enterprise Incidents or CFQ or anywhere else that I've come across seems kinda surprising to me (I've never seen the American Cinematograhper on III, so I don't know about the coverage there), given the film got pretty extensive tech coverage in those magazines. I've interviewed both Farrar and Bill George a few times, and they were always very forthcoming with that kind of insider tidbit, so it seems surprising that more hasn't surfaced on these mystery ships (to push the 'mystery ship' analogy, it'd be great to see the old UFO Leif Erikcson Mystery Ship turn up in the background some time, though I imagine some folks would think it was a submarine refit.)
 

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Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
C'mon, this isn't the Carebear forum....you can say "ass" on here. Ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass ass.......

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quote:

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Originally posted by MrNeutron:
Just to be a little pedantic...

While the study model seen in the Spacedock is ST3 might have been considered for Phase II, it seems more likely that it was originally a Planet of Titans design study, as it's clearly based on the designs from the Ken Adam/Ralph McQuarrie work on Phillip Kaufman's aborted Trek film.

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