This is topic Galaxy, Trinculo, Challenger, and 6/12 frames. in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
I'm moving this out of the latest 359 thread. This is my theorhetical timeline of events for the Galaxy class starships seen through the TNG era. It covers MOST bases, methinks, but it remains to be seen how acceptable the assumptions are. Lots of this stuff is scattered around the forum, but it makes sense to bring it all together here. Let's see if it stands the test... And if I blew and hour of time in my office instead of doing work for a good end.

Assumptions:

-Starfleet wanted six GCS to begin with, plus six for later.
-Starfleet assigns reg numbers to starship superstructures in chronological order.
-Challenger, NCC-71099 was NOT NECESSARILY of the original six. As the timeline below shows, it COULD be, or it COULD be a test article frame related to the GCS development project.
-The first six GCS that were completed were Galaxy, Yamato, Enterprise-D, Odyssey, Venture and (for argument's sake) Trinculo.


Timeline:

A. Starfleet begins construction of twelve sets of frames that can be finished into GCS. The first one begins construction as Galaxy 70637, but the second one, while assigned an NCC number 71099, is not. This can be due to structural improvements or changes that can make the frame lighter, more efficient, or whatever. The analogy drawn is how the space shuttle Challenger test frame was completed as a shuttle because it was lighter - and the Challenger number was OV-99, instead of the completed shuttles' OV-10X. Read about this here. Alternatively, the 71099 could have simply been a framing test article from the beginning.

B. The 71099 GCS frame is completed, but put into storage as one of the backups, and Galaxy is completed as planned. The first of the newer frames will be compelted as Yamato 71805, the second ship off out of dock. Enterprise-D, Odyssey 71832, Venture 71854, and (for argument's sake) Trinculo 71867 round out the original six. The 71099 frame plus five others are placed into storage.

C. Yamato is destroyed. After an investigation concludes that this is not due to structural failure as Captain Varley suspected in said episode, Starfleet decides to build a replacement for the ship and keep the total GCS fleet at six - much like how the shuttle Endeavor was built to replace Challenger and keep the shuttle fleet at four. At this point, at least one GCS is still under construction at Utopia Planitia. The frame taken out of storage could have been 71099 and eventually completed as Challenger, or not; it really doesn't matter.

D. Less than two years later, the Battle of Wolf 359 occurs. Exactly one GCS is present; this could be Trinculo 71867, or alternatively one of the newer frames used instead of 71099. Either way, the ship is either mostly completed or just completed. This would have been supported by the cancelled "Unseen Frontier" book, which would have featured a mostly-finished GCS that was ushered out of spacedock. Model for said ship would likely have been based off of Foundation's own GCS lightwave model, and bits and pieces of the incomplete GCS frame seen in VOY "Relativity".

D2. Not that it matters to the timeline, but based on new evidence Admiral Hanson was aboard this GCS and was lost along with it. Hanson commanded the battle from this ship's battle bridge, which obstensibly matches he one installed on the Enterprise-D at the time.

E. In order to recuperate losses and shore up the fleet, Starfleet orders at least one, and probably the remainder of the GCS frames to be completed. This is supported by at least two GCS being seen at UP in "Realtivity" (only one seemed to be in a state of construction, though that doesn't necessarily mean anything). By this time, whatever it was that caused the 71099 frame to be placed into storage instead of completed had been resolved, or decided to be accepted regardless. Alternatively, 71099 may never have been part of the twelve frames, and was sitting at Qualor II or something until it was decided to complete it for this purpose, or as a Dominion War "Sternbach GCS", or what have you.

F. The remainder of the frames, with or without 71099, are completed. At some point, Starfleet probably requests additional GCS be constructed for whatever reason. Frames are completed as necessary, and completed as required for the Dominion War or whatver purpose. Challenger 71099 is ONLY seen as an alternate future in VOY "Timeless", but there's no reason to suppose that temporal machinations would invalidate this, as the reg number is generally accepted to predate VOY's beginning - much in the same way most fans accept that Pasteur 58925 was running around at least through the run of TNG.

Whew!

Mark
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
Well, as long as you're condensing all this into one thread, where is that evidence about Admiral Hanson you mentioned? I haven't been following the latest W359 debates.

How do the two Galaxy variants (darknecks and 'Ventures') figure into this story? Just minor variatons of individual spaceframes?
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Look at page 7 of the latest thread (assuming you have it set to 15 replies/page). We've got new visual evidence that Hanson was sitting on the E-D's battle bridge set. The script also said he was on a GCS throughout the episode, so at least that is the INTENT of where he was supposed to be.

Darknecks and Ventures would likely fall into the category of minor variations, individual refits, or what-have-yous. With the exception of the AGT Enterprise, no GCS has demonstrated SERIOUS structural modification beyond strapping phaser banks to the top of nacelles or turnign on the saucer impulse engines, which IMO is not a major structural variation given the ease with which stuff was changed around on other ships, like Voyager, Defiant or even the NX-01 Enterprise.

Mark
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
This would have to be sheer speculation, but I wonder how well Hanson's GCS performed at Wolf 359 (assuming you accept that theory, which I do). Combined with the Enterprise-D's exceptional survivability in the crisis (which some may write off simply to "hero of the show" status, but should still be considered), Starfleet might have decided as early as just after BOBW to start constructing all the remaining GCS frames, and possibly even start building new ones as well.
 

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Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
 
There was one ship that survived Wolf359... What class was that again? (Cant. Think. Too. Many. Meetings.)
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
If it came down to raw firepower, pretty poorly. But that's probably something for the other thread... Ditto for the "one that survived" debate. Talk about that over there!

Mark
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Styrofoaman:
There was one ship that survived Wolf359... What class was that again? (Cant. Think. Too. Many. Meetings.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Styrofoaman:
There was one ship that survived Wolf359... What class was that again? (Cant. Think. Too. Many. Meetings.)

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code:

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					HANSON
			Your engagements gave us valuable
			time. We've mobilized a fleet
			of forty starships at Wolf 359
			and that's just for starters...
			the Klingons are sending
			warships... Hell, we've even
			thought about opening
			communications with the
			Romulans...

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-MMoM
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 
It is possible that some ships were effectively destroyed (systems destroyed, crew dead, etc) but were intact enough to be extensively repaired.

This could be what happened to the Ahwahnee.

Also, Hanson's figure sounds exact to me. After all, he would know exactly how many ships were there, and there would be no reason to say "forty" if it was really forty one or thirty nine.
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
Well, I'm also convinced that the Ambassador-class USS Excalibur was one of the ships at Wolf 359, based on "Survival Instinct" where we met that one woman who'd been assimilated. Although the ship's not explicitly mentioned as being at the battle, the timing fits in just about right. And since the Excalibur had been undergoing major repairs that had seen her whole crew reassigned before "Redemption," I think that its presence there would be reasonable.

Regardless, I would also point out that there were many battleships destroyed at Pearl Harbor, but most of them were raised and even returned to service. Of the 8 battleships that came under attack, six of them would later participate in the invasions of various Japanese-held islands later in the war, mainly in support of the amphibious landings for coastal bombardment.

Therefore, I find it very likely that at least some ships at Wolf 359 were salvaged and returned to service. Take the Excelsior-class Melbourne, for instance. Assuming the Borg didn't vaporize it after it passed off-screen, the damage to the ship would've been only a little worse than that sustained by the Enterprise-E in "Nemesis." Plenty of the rest of the wrecked ships seen in BOBW (in the foreground, those models that were given battle damage) could've probably been restored as well.

For all we know, Hanson's GCS could've been salvaged too... although personally, I'm not exactly fond of that idea. The impact of losing a GCS at the battle would be in line with what we've known about the battle. Although, that would mean that FOUR of the original GCS's were destroyed, then! (Unless the GCS was the Yamato's replacement, which IMO is unlikely since there's only two years time between the Y's destruction and the battle.)

(Hmm... perhaps, if the writers had had another major Borg attack later in the series -- not that I'm advocating that idea -- they could've had Hanson of Borg leading the charge that time around... )

UPDATE: Okay, I decided to do a little research on the battleships at Pearl Harbor. According to the Navy website,

quote:

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American technological skill raised and repaired all but three of the ships sunk or damaged at Pearl Harbor (the USS Arizona (BB-39) considered too badly damaged to be salvaged, the USS Oklahoma (BB-37) raised and considered too old to be worth repairing, and the obsolete USS Utah (AG-16) considered not worth the effort).

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quote:

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DATA
(checking)
There are no active subspace
fields... Negligible power
readings...

RIKER
Lifesigns?

DATA
Negative, sir.

---

quote:

---

RIKER
Lifesigns?

DATA
Negative, sir.

WORF
Visual contact.

RIKER
On screen.

37 ANGLE - VIEWSCREEN (OPTICAL)

and the Bridge crew reacts with horror as they see the
wreckage of the Starfleet armada... it is like Pearl
Harbor. Passing by one dead ship after another...

38 TWO SHOT - RIKER AND SHELBY

as she recognizes and calls out the names... and slow
push to Riker...

SHELBY
The Chekhov... The Kyushu...
The Melbourne...

On Riker's face...

39 EXT. SPACE - THE ENTERPRISE (OPTICAL)

as it passes through the cemetery of dead ships...

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Oh, what the hell..

I disagree with the Excalibur thing. The Bajoran officer that was assimilated was in Engineering during the night shift, and from the way she told the story it didn't seem that they were about to go headlong into a battle! I'm of the opinion that it was simply during a Borg surprise attack that Excalibur barely managed to get away from. Endeavour too, for that matter. I'm a strong believer that Starfleet has had other Borg encounters than just what we've seen on screen - adn that Starfleet people other than our heroes can live to tell the tale. As I've said before, we gotta give 'em a little credit!

Regarding the number of ships, they probably could have salvaged a few... If Klingon warships did in fact arrive in time and thus bump the total number present to more than 40, then that would make a little more sense.

Mark
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Here's my take:
The USS Trinculo 71867 started as a second Galaxy testbed and was used to work out many of the kinks that cropped up during the initial two years of the class' service.
Just like modern aircraft, the GCS used between two to three testbed starships at various stages of development with the completed testbed recieving a name and registry number (as well as the honor of the class name).
Sometime between the commision of the GCS and BOBW, the Trinculo was completed enough to recieve a registry but not pressed into service pending the finishing of living quarters and amenities.

The Borg crisis called for any available starship and the Triculo was launched- sans captain, saucer or experienced crew- to the Wolf sector where Hanson took command.
While this is total speculation, it does explain why Hanson transferred flagships and why he was on a GCS battlebridge.
To push things farther, the Trinculo's (mostly completed) saucer could have been mated to a mostly completed engineering section to quick build the USS Challenger.
Desperate times called for desperate measures after W359, dontcha now.
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Why are we using the Trinculo as the hypothetical Wolf 359 Galaxy? If this ship appeared at all, it was in the DS9 war arc. Besides, wasn't Mojo planning to use a half-built, nameless GCS at Wolf 359 in Unseen Frontier?

As to the term destroyed, doesn't it have the connotation of being a permanent condition? If a ship is rebuilt later, you don't really say that it was "destroyed and rebuilt" but rather something like "heavily damaged and rebuilt" or even "nearly destroyed and rebuilt." It just doesn't seem to me like something somebody would say...
 

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Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
What everyone else said and that didn't Admiral Satie say 39 ships were destroyed of the 40 sent in. Since we know that and the same Ahwahnee was mentioned as in "in service" later, she's the one that survived and not Endeavour. I'm of the opinion that Hanson's BB was really the bridge of a non GCS, possibly the Melbourne herself.
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
I agree with Mim. "Drumhead" took place long enough after the battle that the final tallies would have been in. In the case of the wrecks we saw, at least twenty ships left hulks deemed 'destroyed', in that they were damaged beyond practical repair. We don't know how many more were out of the camera's range. We don't know how many were atomised in warp core breaches. But given that the Ahwahnee was there, largely intact, and showed up again less than a year later on active duty, I have absolutely no problem accepting it as the lone exception in the "thirty-nine starships destroyed" figure given in that episode.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dat:
What everyone else said and that didn't Admiral Satie say 39 ships were destroyed of the 40 sent in. Since we know that and the same Ahwahnee was mentioned as in "in service" later, she's the one that survived and not Endeavour. I'm of the opinion that Hanson's BB was really the bridge of a non GCS, possibly the Melbourne herself.

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Satie didn't say "out of 40" though just that 39 ships were lost. What I was saying is that while the 39 figure is precise, the 40 may not be. (Like "a fleet of 40 starships" could possibly mean 41 or 43 or something.) I'm not saying I necessarily believe this, just that it's a possibility if people want to maintain that the Endeavour was a survivor as well as the Ahwahnee...
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 
What was the exact wording of the 39 ships claim?

39 ships "destroyed" is a lot more definitive than 39 ships "lost".
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Thought I'd go looking to see if this was still around. . .

I prefer to believe the Ahwahnee was the survivor, although I could be persuaded otherwise. But destroyed means destroyed. Crippled with life support failure doesn't mean destroyed. The Enterprise can't be the only ship to encounter Borg and survive apart from at Wolf 359 and Typhon/Sector 001. The Endeavour and the Excalibur could have had run-ins as well; Maybe, for the Borg, everything begins with an 'e' 8)

I don't see why the Trinculo should be ignored just because we've never identified its appearance onscreen. Looking at it form another direction, we used to rubbish ideas we'd ever identify the Nebula in the DS9 credits before we found out it was the Leeds.
 

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
While I'm certainly in the "there were more than 40 ships at Wolf 359" camp, as well as in the "the Endeavour and the Excalibur were not at Wolf 359" camp, and in a lot of other camps as well, there's something I should point out. Not a big thing, just a semantic detail. But perhaps significant anyway.

A ship can be "sunk". This does not mean she would be permanently lost - for all we know, somebody might decide to raise the vessel even centuries hence and convert her into a starship...

However, there is no comparable word for a starship. Even if he wanted, a TNG writer could not say "like the battleship row of Pearl Harbor, the sunken starships were later put back to service". The word "destroyed" does carry all the implications of permanence that Lee points out.

*Could* there be a synonym for "sunk" that could be applied to starships? "Voided" would be a nice one - complete loss of onboard atmosphere is rather analogous to sinking, and probably fatal for 99% of the crew, yet easily recoverable in engineering terms. (We can't say "evacuated", since the word already has another meaning - but the other meaning of "to void" might not interfere too badly here.)

Timo Saloniemi
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
Y'know, that's a very good question. After all, the same problem would've applied to ships like the Defiant after the Breen attack on Chin'toka, assuming that the bad guys hadn't gone torpedo-happy at the end.

"Disabled"? "Deactivated"? "Crippled"? (That one implies that it's still active, though.) "Inoperative"? "Inactive"?

I think that we should just call those ships "broken." And keep those Pakled references to yourself, okay
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
But there's a lot more to a starship than a watertight hull! Of course, if Hanson was just throwing a round number - forty - in the air, then the whole discussion is moot since 'more than forty' allows more than one ship to survive while losing 39 others. . .

You know, it's just occurred to me, post-DS9 we're all jaded about ship losses. 39 starships, that's a fuck of a lot, really.

But I object to trying to diminish the importance of the 39 ships line. If some of them were salvageable, she'd have said less. the point was, when she said it, those ships were gone. For good. Thanks to Picard, the fleet was out 39 ships.
 

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Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
 
I agree with Lee about the loss of Starfleet vessels at Wolf 359. Voided sounds good for a Starship that has been knocked out.

The evidence for the Ahwahnee surviving seems much better to me that that for the Excalibur/Endeavour being at Wolf 359.

This was supposed to be a major defeat for Starfleet; in recent years they may have lost a few ships against the Cardassians and others and a few in other circumstances but 39 at one time? How many Starfleet ships were destroyed in the rest of the TNG run?
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 
But even if the Ahwahnee wasn't technically destroyed, all its crew were dead.

We still need another ship to survive in order to pick up the escape pods and run like hell in the other direction.
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
That could have been done by the supposed Klingon ships called upon by Hanson.
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Hmm. . . How about "derelict?" or "adrift?" How did Picard describe the Defiant in ST:FC? "Adrift but salvageable," something like that?
 

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Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
 
...or Klingon ships could've seen action as well making the total number of battling ships over 40. The admiral's line about ships lost being 39 could've included some Klingon ships, which could then mean that of actual Starfleet ships, both the Ahwahnee and the Endeavor could've been survivors and the admiral could still be correct in saying 39 ships were lost at Wolf 359.
 

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Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
 
Voided?

Let's ask Worf and Captain Picard:

Worf: "The Defiant?"
Picard: "Adrift but salvagable."

Tough little ship...

While I wouldn't suggest "adrift" as the preferable term, voided sounds a little strange IMHO.

How about simply "out"?

As in "We've sent the second wave...23 of them are already out".
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Now, did Admiral Satie seem the kind of person likely to care about how many ships the Klingons lost?
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 
If Klingon ships were there, they would have fought to the death, rather than pick up survivors and run.
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
It would explain the lack of Klingon wreckage - they all tried ramming the cube as a last resort. 8)
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
Y'know, that's a very good question. After all, the same problem would've applied to ships like the Defiant after the Breen attack on Chin'toka, assuming that the bad guys hadn't gone torpedo-happy at the end.

"Disabled"? "Deactivated"? "Crippled"? (That one implies that it's still active, though.) "Inoperative"? "Inactive"?

I think that we should just call those ships "broken." And keep those Pakled references to yourself, okay

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quote:

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If Amisov and the Endeavour had been there, the only things he'd have been able to write would later either be "OK, I admit it, I turned tail and got the hell out of there, but only after half my crew had been assimilated in their beds or "Fuck, was I lucky! No other way to explain it. God only knows how we survived."

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Uh... no. If whatever fleet remnants were left after the main part of the battle was over realized that it was hopeless, I think that they would certainly form up and try to rescue as many survivors as possible and try to get them the hell away from the battle. And there are two mitigating factors to explain the Endeavour's survival as part of that rescue: (1) the Nebula-class ship was relatively big and probably had the most space available for survivors (barring a GCS, which would've already been destroyed if one was there), and (2) other surviving Starfleet ships would have provided cover fire as the Endeavour escaped with a hangar bay full of escape pods and survivors. (Possibly the other active ships beamed a lot of the crew off before they made the last suicidal run, assuming that was possible under the circumstances.)

In this scenario, the Borg would've been trying to wipe out the last bit of resistance while also assimilating the rest of the survivors in any of the wrecked ships. And when the Endeavour managed to escape into warp, they simply decided not to pursue, either because there were more potential assimilation victims among the remaining wreckage, or because chasing down that one ship would take too long when they were heading straight for Earth first.

Janeway would never have quoted Amasov if he hadn't been a hero against the Borg. So he couldn't have been running away as things were going wrong. And "lucky" implies a lack of situational awareness (even in retrospect) that I would hate to ascribe to any Starfleet captain. The Borg are too thorough in their attacks (Voyager notwithstanding, of course ) to have just ignored the one surviving ship.
 

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Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
This would not be totally consistent... On Saratoga, for which we have concluded that the Borg were assimilating for people or technology, they DESTROYED the ship - presumably because they were done with it. One wonders what movitated them to completely destroy some ships, and merely reduc others to useless hulks.

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We know, and presumably the Borg were aware, that the Saratoga had a five-minute countdown to a warp core breach, which from 'Generations' produces a much larger explosion than the explosion from firing on the Saratoga outright. The Borg were probably just trying to diminish the amount of incidental damage the cube would sustain from the destruction of Saratoga.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Or they assimilated the Warpcore itself and destroyed the ship with the cutter beam in the process....

Personally, I think the Borg were just in need of a vulcan brain to run their computers and...naaaa!
That'd be the dumbest idea ever.
 

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Posted by Prowl Alpha (Member # 1139) on :
 
Maybe the Borg did not see the Saratoga as a worthy vessel to assimilate. It already had the Roosevelt and they just got like an ice cream headache or indigestion.
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
*lurch back onto the tracks* I see no reason to assume any Galaxys beyond those explicitly stated to be so were part of the "original six", the second six, or complete newbuilds authorised after the TNG TM's fictional publication date.

The reason for the state of things that Gene came up with was to make them even more rare than the Constitution class had been during TOS. Viable, since they were a lot bigger and more complex. However, that view was extremely shortsighted, as it denied that amongst all this technological progress in the 78 years since TOS, the Federation could have expanded their shipbuilding capacity.

I say it does make sense that Starfleet would only spring for so many, and then wait for the class to prove itself worth the investment before authorising more. I don't know if the class has proven its worth -- what with the Galaxy herself being the only ship of the class I've seen survive a major engagement, let alone what Starfleet would consider "minor" threats (computer virus, single much smaller enemy vessel...).

All that being said, we still only know for sure that the Galaxy, Yamato, and Enterprise were the first three built. The names of the other three are conjectural only. The Challenger may have been part of the initial six ordered, but from the TNG TM it looks like the Utopia Planitia yards only had the capability to build a maximum of three at a time. They might easily have staggered the production order 1-3-5, 2-4-6. It's just as likely hullframe 71099 was one of the ones partially assembled and shipped off for storage. Impossible to say either way. Same for the Trinculo and Venture. And we've no evidence that the Magellan and/or Sarek from "Sacrifice of Angels" were Galaxys. There were two Galaxys featured prominently in VFX shots around the time of that line of dialogue, but that is merely suggestive, nothing more.

Lastly, given that by the time of "Favor the Bold", we had lost four Galaxys (if you give credence to the Wolf 359 Galaxy, which I do), and I can count nine or ten in the fleet from those two episodes, I think it likely Starfleet's long since expanded construction of the class beyond the initial dozen.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
So, nine or ten is the highest Galaxy count in those overcrowded DS9 fleets? That would indeed strongly suggest there are more than the original 12. Or some Admiral thought it a good idea to put all of them in one fleet...
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
I don't think anyone is disputing this - my original post was to suppose what became of the first twelve frames, which itself is at best a nigh-canon fact in the first place.

Mark
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
I know. I'm saying we can't know -- based on what we've seen so far. We know the first three, of which two have been destroyed. We know the Challenger is one of the first dozen, completed either shortly after the first three or as part of teh second six, and that unless something is profoundly different due to the Delta Flyer not arriving home Voyager-less a few years back, it's still active. The Trinculo, Odyssey, and Venture are very likely to be part of the first dozen, based on their registries (don't start), and the nameless Galaxy from BoBW pretty much would have to be, also.

So...

All we can say for sure is:
�We know the likely names of seven of the twelve.
�Probable that four of the twelve have been destroyed, if not more.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
. . . But all that doesn't rule out there being a Galaxy at Wolf 359: it just doesn't confirm it either. All you're left with is a brief view of a Battle Bridge set, and that doesn't prove anything unless ytou want it to.

Meanwhile, I don't think anyone's been able to count 9 of them in "SofA" so we're still stuck with 12. But as I've always said, it's surely impossible that every GCS in existence would be there in that one fleet.
 

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Posted by Prowl Alpha (Member # 1139) on :
 
In those years prior to the Dominion War, we have had numerous times where the Federation's security was threatened. We have at least two Borg incursions, Threat of the Dominion, and the Klingons. It would naive to assume that the Federation sat by and did not build up its fleet in the years preceding the War. So the possiblity of having more than just a few of Starfleet's most advanced starships is greater.

For a real world example, The United States' greatest build up of the Navy was at the dawn of World War II. It did not take a psychic to realize that a great threat to the nation is coming.

So, I would assume that Starfleet started a steady build up of the fleet. Starting with replacements for the newer vessels that were lost and later additions to the various classes.
 

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
One moment...

.

..

...

"Favor the Bold"
�Departure from SB 375 -- 5 Galaxys
�Fleet in space -- 5 Galaxys

"Sacrifice of Angels"
�Facing off the enemy fleet -- 5 Galaxys
�Moving in to engage -- 4 Galaxys
�Second shot of above -- 7 Galaxys confirmed, more possible

That's about the best I can do until I get the 6th season on DVD.

--Jonah
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
To be honest, the only person who ever really insisted there were 9 GCS's there was some whacko by the name of Morn who eventually got banned for being terminally annoying. And no, I didn't provoke him, I actually gave him more chances than most. 8)
 

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
As I recall, I counted up to eight, and we were debating over the ninth (could be a Saber) when we got bored of it. Still, it's definite evidence that more than twelve had been completed by that point (also semi-supported by the DS9TM's Sternbach Galaxies). Can anyone think of real-world instances where big ships would be confined to specific fleets? Atlantic versus Pacific, for example?

And I'm starting to really like my supposition that Challenger 71099 may have been a completed test flight article for the Dominion War. There's a real-world parallel with the space shuttles, and while there's no direct evidence for it, it's just fun to think of - and to give at least one name for one of the "Sternbach Galaxies".

And I've never been able to guess any in-context reason for the "cobra" GCS; it's obviously an FX goof, and I'm willing to chalk it into the same category as phaser fire in "Darmok" and such. Has anyone ever come up with a hypothesis concerning this?

Mark
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
The only theory I know of is that it is ablative hull armor to protect the 'weak neck'. I think it originated either here or on r.a.s.tech.

And there is no doubt that it is in fact a texture or lighting error on the GCS model.
 

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Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
 
anyone have caps? sounds like it would be a fun tech article
 

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/galaxy-darkneck.jpg
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Judging by how the light plays over the other ships, I guess it could be a misrendered shadow. . .
 

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Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
 
working on a Galaxy class list, including some non-canon sources..

does anyone know the ships mentioned in the DS9 "Invasion" crossover, "Time's Enemy" ? i think one, the Mukaikubo, was destroyed by the viroid infestation.. were any other ships specified as GCSs? EDIT-- found it, it's the Breedlove.. oddly enough it was on my own page, first page in my Google search

does the blurb for the USS Ronald D Moore pic on the calendar specify when that ship was docked at DS9? during the war i assume?

any dedication plaques i can see plz? (odyssey, Yamato, etc..)

[ October 20, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Capped in Mic ]
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 
Couldn't we blame the shadow on their rear-facing lights being switched off?

Perhaps it's a Federation space highways regulation.

"When travelling in fleets of more than 300 ships, starships must deactivate rear-facing lights to avoid blinding the starships behind them."
 

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Posted by Capped in Mic (Member # 709) on :
 
work in progress, but:

http://captainmike.org/Galactopedia/article_GCSs.html
 

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Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
 
My page lists many Galaxies from older novels - http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/galaxy.html

I've not really bothered updating the list for a while - it simply got too dull and stupid.

Damn, just noticed that the Challenger is on the novel list as well as the proper list. Must amend that one of these years.
 

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Posted by Prowl Alpha (Member # 1139) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Nguyen:
As I recall, I counted up to eight, and we were debating over the ninth (could be a Saber) when we got bored of it. Still, it's definite evidence that more than twelve had been completed by that point (also semi-supported by the DS9TM's Sternbach Galaxies). Can anyone think of real-world instances where big ships would be confined to specific fleets? Atlantic versus Pacific, for example?

Mark

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quote:

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Originally posted by Austin Powers:

De Grasse

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Junior High?
 

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Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
 
French!

Actually, I don't understand the joke! Care to explain?
 

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Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Armada II ships have registries if you look at the "Admiral's Log" after the game.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Austin Powers:
French!

Actually, I don't understand the joke! Care to explain?

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