anyone remember the 3 paradox that the commander talked to seven of nine about in "relativity"
this was when seven was just brought aboard the ships and he was bringing her up to code. there were 3 temperal paradox that he talked about. anyone remember them? i have a small debate thing on what would happen if someone did go back in time on another forum Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
Lieutenant Ducane asks her about the Dali paradox and the Pogo paradox, and afterward she adds her own example of the Pogo paradox: the Seven of Nine paradox.
Ducane: Let's see how much you've assimilated. The Dali paradox. Seven: Also known as the melting clock effect. It refers to a temporal fissure which slows the passage of time to a gradual halt. Ducane: The Pogo paradox. Seven: A causality loop in which interference to prevent an event actually triggers the same event. [a couple minutes later] Seven: The Seven of Nine paradox. Ducane: I beg your pardon? Seven: How do we know that my presence on Voyager will not alter the timeline?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Please tell me you did not recite that from memory.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, there are the shooting scripts somewhere online.
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
I popped in the DVD.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dat: Well, there are the shooting scripts somewhere online.
For TNG, DS9, and the movies, yes. But not for VGR. At least, not that I know of. If you know differently, please elaborate.
-MMoM Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Okay, I get the Dali reference. But "Pogo"? As in "stick"? Or the comic strip? Or what?
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
I'm pretty sure it's named after the comic.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Voyager transcripts available online . . . it's wonderful and repulsing all at the same time.
Also, having Googled for info on the Pogo comic strip, I don't see how it relates.
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
According to Wikipedia, it's called the Pogo paradox in Star Trek for Pogo saying "We have met the enemy and he is us".
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
That makes sense. Although I'm not quite sure that Trek's "Pogo paradox" is actually the same as the grandfather paradox.
[ September 03, 2004, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
They would be different paradoxi. The grandfather paradox involves eliminating yourself from the timeline by killing a relative in the past. The Pogo paradox apparently involves *causing* an event by attempting to stop it.
My resolution of the grandfather paradox is this: You travel back in time and kill your grandfather, or in some other manner prevent him from meeting your grandmother and fathering your parent. At the moment you cause that interference in the timeline, you disappear from the timeline. The only portion of the timeline you will now exist in is from the moment you arrived in the past, to the moment you changed the original timeline. This of course requires the timeline to be viewed form an outside observer, since you would obviously have had a birth, childhood, and early adulthood before arriving in the past. But upon disruption of the timeline, that past is erased from the future. Unscientific? Absolutely.
Posted by trekkie (Member # 1377) on :
hehe thx just what i was looking for
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, the grandfather paradox has two resolutions: it depends upon whether you go with the single timeline theory, or many worlds.
If there's only one timeline, you simply cannot kill your own grandfather before he sires your parent. No matter how many times you try, something will stop you. Because, even before you went back in time, you'd already failed. Since there's only one timeline, history is immutable. You're sitting here in 2004, preparing to step into your time machine and go kill your grandfather in 1930. But, 1930 already happened. You were there (having just arrived from 2004 in your time machine), and you obivously failed to kill him, since you were still born later on.
In the many worlds theory, the timeline in which you were born and the timeline in which you killed your grandfather are separate. So there's no paradox there, either.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by deadcujo: According to Wikipedia, it's called the Pogo paradox in Star Trek for Pogo saying "We have met the enemy and he is us".
The Pogo paradox or causality loop or predestination paradox or predestination phenomenon, as I prefer to call it, isn't really a paradox. Actually, it is one of five solutions that I came up with that would circumvent the grandfather paradox. In other words, the grandfather paradox occurs any time an event of the future has a consequence in the past, while the Pogo paradox just closes the loop with "normal" causality.
Posted by F.G. (Member # 968) on :
Roswell that ends well....
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Best episode title ever.
Posted by F.G. (Member # 968) on :
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