I was skimming through an old issue of Communicator on TWOK when it occured to me a potential megaweapon against the Borg. it may sound farfetched, but if the Genesis device could reorder matter at the atomic level, why couldn't you program it reoder the Borg into a can opener or some such.
I know this sounds like a "Sheepinator" from Ratchet CLank, but we all saw how powerful the device was, it created a planet from a nebula, a broken starship, and possibly a space station and an asteroid. Why couldn't you just beam one over and detonate it? We saw TNG constantly beam over to a cube without getting the Nanite Handshake. Even the potential instability would lend itself to their destruction. For that matter, why not just slime them with protomatter and torch it?
Kruge's whole reason for being in the Mutara Nebula was because of this "terrible" weapon, yet the Klingons never employed anything similar and the whole notion was dropped. (Not to mention the whole reanimation possibilites)
So let's hear it... what do you think of the concept or what other tech that we've seen could have been employed against the Borg but was never thought up?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, the Genesis Device was probably etremely difficult to produce. They had been working on it for years, though, granted that was trying to make it actually work, not just blow up. I would nevertheless guess that it's probably quite difficult/dangerous to make from a materials standpoint.
"Nanite Handshake" gets you one round of immunity in the Flameboard though.
Posted by FuturamaGuy (Member # 968) on :
ACtually, wasn't it just a year that they took to make it? I mean from Dr. Marcus's proposal forward...
Posted by Neutrino 123 (Member # 1327) on :
The Federation most likely stopped developement of the technology after realizing it couldn't be used for it's intended non-violent purpose. The Federation seems to want to avoid super-powerful things such as omega particles, so even if it had worked perfectly, development probably would have been halted after its destructive power was realized.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by FuturamaGuy: ACtually, wasn't it just a year that they took to make it? I mean from Dr. Marcus's proposal forward...
They probably built the test device and the one Kahn stole at the same time: much like the US built the initial atomic weapons.
I'd think that many years of computer modding were done in the development that led to the Genesis technology: transporter tech certainly played a part.
As to not using it against the Borg, it may not have penetrated their magical (later dropped with no explanation) Subspace Field. Besides, if the Borg managed to assimilate the technology (through intercepting the device or whatever), it's be the end of the quadrant.
Instant borg assimilation of worlds= bigfun for everyone! Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
I read a fanfic story that was pretty interesting and deal with a particular Anti-Borg weapon. John "Forbin" Payne wrote a story he called "Wolf", set in the TNG post-GEN timeframe. The gist of it is that the Federation creates a Super Weapon for use against the Borg. This weapon is based off the Doomsday Machine concept, tho more the anti-proton (I think?) canon than the ability to eat up planets. Pretty intersting take on Federation adaptation of the DM's main weapon, I thought.
One thing I never understood is why StarFleet didn't come up with a modification to either their own nanites (like those that Wesley Crusher had programmed) or take Borg nanites and reprogram them so that the Borg would either play nice or just die. I know it wouldn't necessarily have been as simple as that, but the EMH made it look very doable in VOY.
Something they could have done that seems relatively plausible would be to have a small number of automated ships, sitting in reserve. Given the level of sophistication that we saw in TNG, the onboard computers could have been programmed to ram the Borg Cubes. Just have the computers set to start a warp core breach then start either a warp speed run or full impulse run at the Borg Cube. Basically, you've got a guided missile.
And that's all my limited cranial capacity has been able to cook up on a Sunday morning with only three cups of coffee coursing thru The Bod.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Wiz Artist: some years ago (before this board's current inception) Paul Cargile and Baloo imagined several different systems that would be more effective than the existing technology used against the Borg. (I worked a few topics for that site, but they did most of the heavy lifting.) Try "Starfleet Military Reserves" to see.
(I hope this does not run afoul of the user agreement, since I am someone who registered in 1999.)
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
As for using the Genesis Device strictly as a weapon, I would think it would be easier than using it as intended. I've always thought that the hard part about the process was generating a completely viable biosphere; programming the amount of information for that task would be a hell of a chore (hence Carol Marcus' line about the memory being too full to add more data). If all you're going to do is use the Genesis Wave to reorganize matter, it seems to me that simply reducing your target to fundamental particles (stage one of the process) would be much simpler to accomplish. Think of fusion as an analogy. We've been able to initiate uncontrolled fusion reactions for more than 50 years; generating a controlled reaction for economical power generation is still under development.
Posted by thesonofodin (Member # 1025) on :
If the Federation was desperate enough, I do believe that they would use a Genesis Device to try and save whats left of the Federation.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'd think Transporter tech would be effective against the Borg during initial encounters (when they are complacent enough to allow whole teams of people to beam aboard). Beam over the animater storage pods or use the cargo transporters to beam hundreds of drones into nothingness.
The idea of ramming the Cube with warpdrive is plausable...though if effective, the Federation would build dozens of small drone ships (like the Mars defense ships but warp-capable).
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Isn't the fate of the Mars ships/missiles telling, though?
And one of the most powerful weapons of the Borg is their shield-draining, ship-tearing tractor beam. It sounds like a fearfully effective anti-ramming weapon to me. Why go against the major strengths of the enemy, if you can exploit his weaknesses?
We're still waiting for our first example of warp ramming. There ought to be a reason why it's never seen in practice. Surely at least the ramming-happy Jem'Hadar would have utilized it if it was of any worth.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye it causes subspace shockwaves (they do in the novels when a warp-core breaches while at warp).
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Isn't the fate of the Mars ships/missiles telling, though?
And one of the most powerful weapons of the Borg is their shield-draining, ship-tearing tractor beam. It sounds like a fearfully effective anti-ramming weapon to me. Why go against the major strengths of the enemy, if you can exploit his weaknesses?
The problem ends up being that the Borg really don't have any weaknesses. I'm Thinking if you took a bunch of those Mars Perimeter Defense ships (or automate a bunch of starships), gave them limited warp capability to move maneuver more effectively, then had a bunch of them come at the Borg cube from multiple angles. When the cube has a number of them locked in those shield draining beams, you detonate their m/am reactors. I'd guess that should cause some major damage to the cube.
quote:We're still waiting for our first example of warp ramming. There ought to be a reason why it's never seen in practice. Surely at least the ramming-happy Jem'Hadar would have utilized it if it was of any worth.
Maybe the sensors can't cope w/pinpointing an object in such a fashion while the ship is at warp? Perhaps a ramming can't occur at warp speed since the ship isn't actually in "this" universe?
The producers just never thought about it...?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, Riker seems pretty confident a warp-ram would work in BoBW part 2. He ordered the munchkin to set a collision course and prepare to go to warp.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Although that was ramming a stationary ship while at warp, which could be a whole different kettle of fish.
In any case, I don't see how it would be any different than a photon torpedo being fired and hitting a target while at warp.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Well, all you really need is a Svengali to hold up and swing a pocket watch and go: "SLLEEEEEEP"
When Kirk gave the planet killer indigestion, it didn't destroy the ship. While I admit that there was massive damage, you would think that the Feds would have had it in a lab somewhere and learned how to duplicate it or at least it's weapon. Being that the Feds were desperate it would seem logical that they would have explored the possibility.
And, yes I did read that old novel "Vendetta" where they found Big Brother, but excluding that storyline it would still seem a viable last-ditch approach. Granted, IT may gobble up a planet as its own reward, but who REALLY needs Mars anyway?
I somehow don't see the Borg weapon being effective against that Neutronium hull and I don't think they would ram a cube down its maw.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I always figured that the Federation would make good use of the Neutronium hull of the PK.
Assuming that the PK's guts were destroyed or useless, I think the hull would have made an ideal location for Memory Alpha or some other ultra-sensitive base.
Just turn the PK so it's maw faces "up" and build your base inside like a hermit crab. Who needs shields anyway? Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Hmmm....maybe THAT's where Section 31 is holed up at.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Naw: it's Admiral Nachayev's dungeon for her slaves...er..."subordinates".
Posted by Griffworks (Member # 1014) on :
Admiral Nechayev's into bondage?
Didn't see that coming..... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I can seriously see her in latex or mabye rubber...
Mmmm...rubber.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
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