WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
I was skimming through an old issue of Communicator on TWOK when it occured to me a potential megaweapon against the Borg. it may sound farfetched, but if the Genesis device could reorder matter at the atomic level, why couldn't you program it reoder the Borg into a can opener or some such.
I know this sounds like a "Sheepinator" from Ratchet CLank, but we all saw how powerful the device was, it created a planet from a nebula, a broken starship, and possibly a space station and an asteroid. Why couldn't you just beam one over and detonate it? We saw TNG constantly beam over to a cube without getting the Nanite Handshake. Even the potential instability would lend itself to their destruction. For that matter, why not just slime them with protomatter and torch it?
Kruge's whole reason for being in the Mutara Nebula was because of this "terrible" weapon, yet the Klingons never employed anything similar and the whole notion was dropped. (Not to mention the whole reanimation possibilites)
So let's hear it... what do you think of the concept or what other tech that we've seen could have been employed against the Borg but was never thought up?
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Well, the Genesis Device was probably etremely difficult to produce. They had been working on it for years, though, granted that was trying to make it actually work, not just blow up. I would nevertheless guess that it's probably quite difficult/dangerous to make from a materials standpoint.
"Nanite Handshake" gets you one round of immunity in the Flameboard though.
posted
The Federation most likely stopped developement of the technology after realizing it couldn't be used for it's intended non-violent purpose. The Federation seems to want to avoid super-powerful things such as omega particles, so even if it had worked perfectly, development probably would have been halted after its destructive power was realized.
quote:Originally posted by FuturamaGuy: ACtually, wasn't it just a year that they took to make it? I mean from Dr. Marcus's proposal forward...
They probably built the test device and the one Kahn stole at the same time: much like the US built the initial atomic weapons.
I'd think that many years of computer modding were done in the development that led to the Genesis technology: transporter tech certainly played a part.
As to not using it against the Borg, it may not have penetrated their magical (later dropped with no explanation) Subspace Field. Besides, if the Borg managed to assimilate the technology (through intercepting the device or whatever), it's be the end of the quadrant.
Instant borg assimilation of worlds= bigfun for everyone!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I read a fanfic story that was pretty interesting and deal with a particular Anti-Borg weapon. John "Forbin" Payne wrote a story he called "Wolf", set in the TNG post-GEN timeframe. The gist of it is that the Federation creates a Super Weapon for use against the Borg. This weapon is based off the Doomsday Machine concept, tho more the anti-proton (I think?) canon than the ability to eat up planets. Pretty intersting take on Federation adaptation of the DM's main weapon, I thought.
One thing I never understood is why StarFleet didn't come up with a modification to either their own nanites (like those that Wesley Crusher had programmed) or take Borg nanites and reprogram them so that the Borg would either play nice or just die. I know it wouldn't necessarily have been as simple as that, but the EMH made it look very doable in VOY.
Something they could have done that seems relatively plausible would be to have a small number of automated ships, sitting in reserve. Given the level of sophistication that we saw in TNG, the onboard computers could have been programmed to ram the Borg Cubes. Just have the computers set to start a warp core breach then start either a warp speed run or full impulse run at the Borg Cube. Basically, you've got a guided missile.
And that's all my limited cranial capacity has been able to cook up on a Sunday morning with only three cups of coffee coursing thru The Bod.
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Wiz Artist: some years ago (before this board's current inception) Paul Cargile and Baloo imagined several different systems that would be more effective than the existing technology used against the Borg. (I worked a few topics for that site, but they did most of the heavy lifting.) Try "Starfleet Military Reserves" to see.
(I hope this does not run afoul of the user agreement, since I am someone who registered in 1999.)
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
As for using the Genesis Device strictly as a weapon, I would think it would be easier than using it as intended. I've always thought that the hard part about the process was generating a completely viable biosphere; programming the amount of information for that task would be a hell of a chore (hence Carol Marcus' line about the memory being too full to add more data). If all you're going to do is use the Genesis Wave to reorganize matter, it seems to me that simply reducing your target to fundamental particles (stage one of the process) would be much simpler to accomplish. Think of fusion as an analogy. We've been able to initiate uncontrolled fusion reactions for more than 50 years; generating a controlled reaction for economical power generation is still under development.
-------------------- The difference between genius and idiocy? Genius has its limits.
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
If the Federation was desperate enough, I do believe that they would use a Genesis Device to try and save whats left of the Federation.
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Registered: May 2003
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posted
I'd think Transporter tech would be effective against the Borg during initial encounters (when they are complacent enough to allow whole teams of people to beam aboard). Beam over the animater storage pods or use the cargo transporters to beam hundreds of drones into nothingness.
The idea of ramming the Cube with warpdrive is plausable...though if effective, the Federation would build dozens of small drone ships (like the Mars defense ships but warp-capable).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Isn't the fate of the Mars ships/missiles telling, though?
And one of the most powerful weapons of the Borg is their shield-draining, ship-tearing tractor beam. It sounds like a fearfully effective anti-ramming weapon to me. Why go against the major strengths of the enemy, if you can exploit his weaknesses?
We're still waiting for our first example of warp ramming. There ought to be a reason why it's never seen in practice. Surely at least the ramming-happy Jem'Hadar would have utilized it if it was of any worth.
posted
Mabye it causes subspace shockwaves (they do in the novels when a warp-core breaches while at warp).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: Isn't the fate of the Mars ships/missiles telling, though?
And one of the most powerful weapons of the Borg is their shield-draining, ship-tearing tractor beam. It sounds like a fearfully effective anti-ramming weapon to me. Why go against the major strengths of the enemy, if you can exploit his weaknesses?
The problem ends up being that the Borg really don't have any weaknesses. I'm Thinking if you took a bunch of those Mars Perimeter Defense ships (or automate a bunch of starships), gave them limited warp capability to move maneuver more effectively, then had a bunch of them come at the Borg cube from multiple angles. When the cube has a number of them locked in those shield draining beams, you detonate their m/am reactors. I'd guess that should cause some major damage to the cube.
quote:We're still waiting for our first example of warp ramming. There ought to be a reason why it's never seen in practice. Surely at least the ramming-happy Jem'Hadar would have utilized it if it was of any worth.
Maybe the sensors can't cope w/pinpointing an object in such a fashion while the ship is at warp? Perhaps a ramming can't occur at warp speed since the ship isn't actually in "this" universe?
The producers just never thought about it...?
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Well, Riker seems pretty confident a warp-ram would work in BoBW part 2. He ordered the munchkin to set a collision course and prepare to go to warp.
posted
Although that was ramming a stationary ship while at warp, which could be a whole different kettle of fish.
In any case, I don't see how it would be any different than a photon torpedo being fired and hitting a target while at warp.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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